Help with undergrad decisions, claification, etc...

[Scott Montgomery]

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Hi everyone, my name is Scott, I live just outside Detroit, MI. I am 29 years old and finally an aspiring physician. I will keep my story as short as possible but would like a little input from those that have a better idea or who have possibly been in my shoes before.

10 years ago I had absolutely no idea where I wanted to go or what I wanted to do (career, life, schooling etc..) so I started at a local community college in Ann Arbor, MI. I knew I was already interested in automotive so I started their automotive technology program along with the auto body technology program. After both programs were complete I still had no direction of a career other than in the auto industry but I did start knocking down some of my general education courses. After 7 years of community college I had 90 credits, no associates, still no real direction. In the fall of 2010 I transferred to Eastern Michigan University and started their biology program, my fourth semester there I found work heavily getting in the way causing my to have to withdraw from a course. I knew at this point in time I was going to jeopardize my potential for medical school if I kept this path up. I took a little time off from school and just worked and also did some volunteering and shadowing, trying to find my life and find me. I have had a lot of hurdles along the way but have finally reached a point to where I am ready to commit my life to education and reaching my goals of becoming a physician.

The decision I am stuck on or unsure of is what to do from this point. What is the best decision? I have about 70 credits remaining for a bachelors of Biology with a bio-chem minor. Do I stick it out at Eastern Michigan or do I transfer yet again to a bigger university with a tougher curriculum to have a solid point to show I have dedicated my life to education, that I can handle it and that I am ready? I have applied to Wayne State University in Detroit, MI and also to the University of Arizona in Tucson, AZ. I have been accepted to both. (I have a place to stay in Arizona that will cost me little to nothing for a few years!). I am not sure if a transfer would be a good idea, or if I do transfer would staying in Michigan be preferred over an OOS transfer? I toured UofA medical school in Phoenix and fell in love with it. I will definitely be applying there, I will actually probably apply both MD and DO. Right now my focus is on my undergrad and making a solid decision that will not affect my medical school application too much. I know multiple transfers are not a good thing. So this will be my last transfer and I will work my butt of for a good MCAT (of course I will be stuck taking the new one now that I drug my feet so long) but that is another story.

Well this is pretty much it. Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.

For my additions on my apps I will also have the following:

400 hours volunteer work at an ER locally
320 hours volunteer work abroad in Nepal
1000 hours shadowing, split up between a DO Orthopaedic Surgeon, DO General Surgeon, MD Infectious Disease, and MD Internal Medicine.

Have worked on some statin therapy research as well.

Thank you

 

[basketcase0a0]

The best decision is whatever works for you, undergrad institution is far less important than academic success in terms of medical school admissions. More important is that you realize that this is a public forum, and ADCOM members routinely go through these forums to identify people who have applied to their schools. Don't use your real name and don't put identifying information on here. Keep it as vague as possible. The last thing you need is to make it to the end of this long, arduous process and for an ADCOM member to see something you posted, get offended by it, and reject you for the offense or a perceived lack of professionalism. Just a bit of friendly advice, I don't think any part of this post was offensive or anything like that, but it's a good thing to keep in mind regardless when you're on a site like this. Best of luck, I hope you're successful in your endeavor to become a physician.

 

[ZeaL6]

I agree with basketcase.It doesn't matter and you have to do what makes you happy. However, the practical side of me wants to say stay in Michigan for undergrad due to their many state MD schools (Wayne, M St, UofM, Western Mich, Oakland, Central Mich.) and DO school. This will allow you a higher chance of matriculation (assuming your application is good) and save you money in the long run.

 

[Lya]

I will not quote your post since I think you should probably delete some personal information and names in the future.

There are several things you need to consider:

1) Write down your interests or the college programs that you want to pursue. If you want to do clinical research as a high priority, having a medical school or major hospitals nearby will be a great plus since you might find the clinical labs easier if you have these facilities nearby. For example, did the school in Arizona seem to have more accessible, better labs that you see yourself doing research in, compared to two other schools you mentioned?

2) Transferring will give you a more diverse exposure to college and other opportunities, while your ECs and activities in your previous school will be stopped suddenly and you will have to find similar activities or find new ones at a different school. Transferring your credits will be another hurdle, but think about how you can make that transition in your extracurricular activities and others as well. If the quality of activities at a different school is higher, then definitely you will find it more meaningful to transfer, not just because it is a "larger" school, but it can also offer better or other opportunities.

3) You will have to find a way to tackle rigorous courses, sooner or later. Do you feel that you can seek a study group or tutors to get through them? If you feel that you are willing to work hard and seek resources for help, then you need to make sure that the reason you don't want to transfer is not because the school has harder courses. You also need to make sure that the reason you don't want to transfer is not because you think you are not smart enough to excel in that school. If you can, talk to current students about how they do in classes and how they study. Do some schools offer more resources in having tutors and more available office hours? That might be something to consider as you look into these schools.


There are other factors too, but the three things above might shed alight on whether you will be happy in certain places or not.


From my initial impression from reading your post, though, I feel that you somewhat already made a decision in going to that school in Arizona. If you know you will be happier than when you were at your previous school, you already know what to do. Look into whether you can still keep your residency in MI while attending a school in a different state.


At the end of the day, it is you that matters more, not which school you went to. You literally get what you put in. Even if the school is not as good as other schools, but if you are willing to work hard and seek the opportunities you want to pursue, then I am sure he or she will excel just as well in other places. Conversely, if you are not willing to work hard and pursue your interests, attending a great school has a little meaning.

I hope you will attend a school that matches your appetite.

 

[Scott Montgomery]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Yes I am aware of ADCOMs and personal information. I will do my best to watch what I say on here, I know the internet seems to help ruin a lot of peoples lives. One must also consider that this may not actually be my name (star trek).

I will weigh out my options and make a decision here shortly. Yes I have looked into keeping my Michigan residency while attending school out of state. I also run into the same problem at UofA since their tuition is rather high for out of state students.

Lya: I am not too heavily concerned with the rigors of advanced coursework. My question in the original post was what would a medical school be looking for? Would a larger, possibly "tougher", university help show a nice change in my life. Show the ability of being able to take on a tougher curriculum and maintain a good gpa. I would be transferring out of Eastern with a 4.0, I am just unsure if Eastern is a good/great choice to complete undergrad. Would a medical school look at EMU as not being as "tough" as other schools.

 

[Lya]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Yes I am aware of ADCOMs and personal information. I will do my best to watch what I say on here, I know the internet seems to help ruin a lot of peoples lives. One must also consider that this may not actually be my name (star trek).

I will weigh out my options and make a decision here shortly. Yes I have looked into keeping my Michigan residency while attending school out of state. I also run into the same problem at UofA since their tuition is rather high for out of state students.

Lya: I am not too heavily concerned with the rigors of advanced coursework. My question in the original post was what would a medical school be looking for? Would a larger, possibly "tougher", university help show a nice change in my life. Show the ability of being able to take on a tougher curriculum and maintain a good gpa. I would be transferring out of Eastern with a 4.0, I am just unsure if Eastern is a good/great choice to complete undergrad. Would a medical school look at EMU as not being as "tough" as other schools.

Medical school is not looking for college names, but rather your GPA, ECs, and MCAT, among other things. They are not necessarily looking for which college is the toughest. As long as it's a 4-year university, I don't think it matters as much. Going into a good school helps, not just because the name is more recognized, but because other resources and connections you get so long as you are interested in pursuing these resources and connections.

From the medical school perspective, they don't care whether you finish your degree at Eastern or elsewhere. What matters is you. If you have doubts on Eastern, not because it is not a good school but because you don't see yourself succeeding there for other reasons, then maybe transferring is a right decision for you. Talking to your professors, advisers and mentors will be helpful. They might have better insights on what to do for your academic career.

 

[inycepoo]

Medical school is not looking for college names, but rather your GPA, ECs, and MCAT, among other things. They are not necessarily looking for which college is the toughest. As long as it's a 4-year university, I don't think it matters as much. Going into a good school helps, not just because the name is more recognized, but because other resources and connections you get so long as you are interested in pursuing these resources and connections.

Untrue. We know that GPAs from "tougher" and "harder" schools are viewed very differently from a run-of-the-mill public university (from adcom members on these forums). It's not all hard, absolute numbers with the GPA (granted, of course, that the GPA is still above a certain threshold, i.e., a 3.4 from Harvard won't get you anywhere, but a 3.7 is different from a 3.6 at Podunk.).

This has nothing to do with OP, but I just wanted to point that out.

 

[Lya]

Untrue. We know that GPAs from "tougher" and "harder" schools are viewed very differently from a run-of-the-mill public university (from adcom members on these forums). It's not all hard, absolute numbers with the GPA (granted, of course, that the GPA is still above a certain threshold, i.e., a 3.4 from Harvard won't get you anywhere, but a 3.7 is different from a 3.6 at Podunk.).

This has nothing to do with OP, but I just wanted to point that out.

Thank you for the correction!

 

[LizzyM]

Frankly, these are lateral moves. I would keep in mind that you'll be starting over in terms of activites, research , etc which destroys any possibility at continuity. You will need letters of recommendation and having a longer relationship with a LOR writer is a good thing that you may lose by moving. All the schools you've described are big schools so the possibility of a LOR writer who knows you personally may be slim but can be something to work on.

As a side note, 1000 hours of shadowing is too much standing around and watching. If you've called it shadowing but it is actually employment or volunteering (involving activities) that puts you shoulder to shoulder with docs for 1000 hours then ok but don't just say shadowing for what is essentially 6 months of full time work as that just seems ridiculous.

 

[occams_razor]

Untrue. We know that GPAs from "tougher" and "harder" schools are viewed very differently from a run-of-the-mill public university (from adcom members on these forums). It's not all hard, absolute numbers with the GPA (granted, of course, that the GPA is still above a certain threshold, i.e., a 3.4 from Harvard won't get you anywhere, but a 3.7 is different from a 3.6 at Podunk.).

This has nothing to do with OP, but I just wanted to point that out.

Gotta disagree with the "3.4 from Harvard won't get you anywhere" statement. a 3.4 GPA isn't necessarily an app killer especially if the person has competitive MCAT and ECs. also if they are coming from a school that has known grade deflation. The major is also taken into consideration.

 

[SixStringPsych]

Gotta disagree with the "3.4 from Harvard won't get you anywhere" statement. a 3.4 GPA isn't necessarily an app killer especially if the person has competitive MCAT and ECs. also if they are coming from a school that has known grade deflation. The major is also taken into consideration.

I agree. Inycepoo have you even applied to med school yet? A 3.4 is not a horrible GPA and can still get you in even if you didn't go to Harvard, given you have good MCAT and ECs. I'd take a 3.4 from Harvard over a 3.6 from another school.

There is definitely some self selection bias going on here, but at all of my interviews (which was a lot), at least 50% were from very prestigious top 20 private universities. Maybe 1 or 2 from "State college/LAC I've never heard of" University and the rest from very good public and private schools.

 

[kyamh]

Look into whether you can still keep your residency in MI while attending a school in a different state.

Conversely, find out whether you can establish residency in Arizona while you are in school. The only reason why it would be beneficial to move would be if you could establish residency and then get a leg up into the school you really want to go to. Most states don't let you establish residency if all you are doing there is going to school. In that case, you are much better off staying in Michigan since you get to take advantage of better relationships and continuity #LizzyM

 

[yehhhboiii]

Untrue. We know that GPAs from "tougher" and "harder" schools are viewed very differently from a run-of-the-mill public university (from adcom members on these forums). It's not all hard, absolute numbers with the GPA (granted, of course, that the GPA is still above a certain threshold, i.e., a 3.4 from Harvard won't get you anywhere, but a 3.7 is different from a 3.6 at Podunk.).

This has nothing to do with OP, but I just wanted to point that out.

people have a general idea of which schools have a reputation for tough grading and which majors are more difficult. from what i can tell, the point of the mcat/gpa isn't that whoever gets higher scores will automatically be a better doctor. they're looking for people who would be good doctors (strong interpersonal skills, listens well to others, etc.) and can handle the material (as demonstrated by mcat scores/gpa). a 4.0/40 is nice but if they have asperger's then what's the point

 

[inycepoo]

Gotta disagree with the "3.4 from Harvard won't get you anywhere" statement. a 3.4 GPA isn't necessarily an app killer especially if the person has competitive MCAT and ECs. also if they are coming from a school that has known grade deflation. The major is also taken into consideration.

I agree. Inycepoo have you even applied to med school yet? A 3.4 is not a horrible GPA and can still get you in even if you didn't go to Harvard, given you have good MCAT and ECs. I'd take a 3.4 from Harvard over a 3.6 from another school.

lol ok I was exaggerating with the 3.4 😛 (bad rhetorical habits...). The point was that the "big name" school thing won't help a really low GPA; 3.4 wasn't the best example to give!

Though honestly, as someone who attends one of Harvard's rival schools, someone with a 3.3-3.4 from Harvard would literally be at the bottom of his/her premed class. No idea how this compares longitudinally to those from other universities, but the student was either a brilliant slacker or struggled hard/had other problems during college. I'm pretty sure of that.