Helping an Unqualified Pre-Dent?

[aggietxdent]

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Not to be too harsh with the title, but someone I know from a class, who knows I received multiple acceptances to dental schools, is asking me for advice in terms of applying/DAT prep and all the jazz. I've talked to this person before in class about careers and all, and they were lost at the time. Fast forward 3 months and they contact me saying they decided to go dental school and started asking me questions. Now I did my best to answer some questions, but deep down I know that this person would be a HORRIBLE candidate for dental school because they don't actually want it, but it's more of a "have nothing better to do after graduation and want to do something" type deal. Haven't even started shadowing and they want to apply in May. Grades are mediocre and I don't believe they will do well on the DAT. Honestly, if they got into dental school, I'd be pretty pissed off because I've worked my butt off for years and years to get in and this person decided to give it a go 3 months ago. I thankfully still have hope that the admissions people to weed them out haha (I know that sounds harsh).

Now, if you were in my shoes what would you do? Advise them and hope the admissions committees know how to do their job? Or just tell them to maybe rethink dentistry and convince them to at least take another year to really think, shadow, and work on the app? I don't mind helping them. That's not the problem. I actually really love giving advice and being asked. But I know now as a dental student, I'm going to be getting lots of questions from other pre-dents. Would it be fair to tell them to maybe rethink dentistry if I know they won't do well, or just hold my tongue and help them out regardless?

 

[Cali20002]

I would be real, but NICE with them. I would ask em if they are serious about dentistry and if so, it's a very difficult process that you have to be serious about because many people struggle just to get in. Tell them that you want to help them get in, but they are going to have to step their game up if they are to compete with people who have 3.5+s, 21AAs, and 100+ hrs of shadowing and volunteering. If you really want to help them, you are only helping them by being honest. If they take it wrong, that's their problem, not yours.

 

[8_man]

I would help him out with a smile! Maybe in the future, he'll remember your kindness and sign up as one of your patients (regardless of whether he gets in or not). 😉

 

[Advance]

Not to be too harsh with the title, but someone I know from a class, who knows I received multiple acceptances to dental schools, is asking me for advice in terms of applying/DAT prep and all the jazz. I've talked to this person before in class about careers and all, and they were lost at the time. Fast forward 3 months and they contact me saying they decided to go dental school and started asking me questions. Now I did my best to answer some questions, but deep down I know that this person would be a HORRIBLE candidate for dental school because they don't actually want it, but it's more of a "have nothing better to do after graduation and want to do something" type deal. Haven't even started shadowing and they want to apply in May. Grades are mediocre and I don't believe they will do well on the DAT. Honestly, if they got into dental school, I'd be pretty pissed off because I've worked my butt off for years and years to get in and this person decided to give it a go 3 months ago. I thankfully still have hope that the admissions people to weed them out haha (I know that sounds harsh).

Now, if you were in my shoes what would you do? Advise them and hope the admissions committees know how to do their job? Or just tell them to maybe rethink dentistry and convince them to at least take another year to really think, shadow, and work on the app? I don't mind helping them. That's not the problem. I actually really love giving advice and being asked. But I know now as a dental student, I'm going to be getting lots of questions from other pre-dents. Would it be fair to tell them to maybe rethink dentistry if I know they won't do well, or just hold my tongue and help them out regardless?

I would give them my honest advice. If they did rather bad in undergrad I'd just recommend them to take post-bacc courses or do a SMP. It really depends on what adcoms want though. You will be surprised with how many 18AA and sub 3.5 GPA applicants get accepted every year.

 

[ateamparent]

Did he/she ask questions about the admissions process, or did they actually ask for your opinion? Answer the question that was asked. If your assessment is accurate the applicant may not even complete the application process once they discover (on their own) the rigors, or later learn first-hand how perceptive admissions committee members can detect applicants who "have nothing better to do after graduation." Remember, there is a reason the adage "kill the messenger" survived thousands of years.

 

[shwayne]

Tell them the only person who can help them is themselves.. then proceed to crush their hopes of pursuing dentistry and force them to switch to a business degree.

 

[phillydon]

Not to be too harsh with the title, but someone I know from a class, who knows I received multiple acceptances to dental schools, is asking me for advice in terms of applying/DAT prep and all the jazz. I've talked to this person before in class about careers and all, and they were lost at the time. Fast forward 3 months and they contact me saying they decided to go dental school and started asking me questions. Now I did my best to answer some questions, but deep down I know that this person would be a HORRIBLE candidate for dental school because they don't actually want it, but it's more of a "have nothing better to do after graduation and want to do something" type deal. Haven't even started shadowing and they want to apply in May. Grades are mediocre and I don't believe they will do well on the DAT. Honestly, if they got into dental school, I'd be pretty pissed off because I've worked my butt off for years and years to get in and this person decided to give it a go 3 months ago. I thankfully still have hope that the admissions people to weed them out haha (I know that sounds harsh).

Now, if you were in my shoes what would you do? Advise them and hope the admissions committees know how to do their job? Or just tell them to maybe rethink dentistry and convince them to at least take another year to really think, shadow, and work on the app? I don't mind helping them. That's not the problem. I actually really love giving advice and being asked. But I know now as a dental student, I'm going to be getting lots of questions from other pre-dents. Would it be fair to tell them to maybe rethink dentistry if I know they won't do well, or just hold my tongue and help them out regardless?

It's not up to you to determine this candidates motives and whether he/she is qualified for dental school. Be objective, answer their questions and let them figure it out from there.

 

[gangazi]

Dentistry is about helping others... I would try to help your friend out first and let him decide it himself later on


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Master Yoda]

Not to be too harsh with the title, but someone I know from a class, who knows I received multiple acceptances to dental schools, is asking me for advice in terms of applying/DAT prep and all the jazz. I've talked to this person before in class about careers and all, and they were lost at the time. Fast forward 3 months and they contact me saying they decided to go dental school and started asking me questions. Now I did my best to answer some questions, but deep down I know that this person would be a HORRIBLE candidate for dental school because they don't actually want it, but it's more of a "have nothing better to do after graduation and want to do something" type deal. Haven't even started shadowing and they want to apply in May. Grades are mediocre and I don't believe they will do well on the DAT. Honestly, if they got into dental school, I'd be pretty pissed off because I've worked my butt off for years and years to get in and this person decided to give it a go 3 months ago. I thankfully still have hope that the admissions people to weed them out haha (I know that sounds harsh).

Now, if you were in my shoes what would you do? Advise them and hope the admissions committees know how to do their job? Or just tell them to maybe rethink dentistry and convince them to at least take another year to really think, shadow, and work on the app? I don't mind helping them. That's not the problem. I actually really love giving advice and being asked. But I know now as a dental student, I'm going to be getting lots of questions from other pre-dents. Would it be fair to tell them to maybe rethink dentistry if I know they won't do well, or just hold my tongue and help them out regardless?

Stop acting like you are an admissions committee member. Give them all the information they need and leave the rest to the adcoms. By the way davat kon eid biyam khonaton bara eid didani....eidi ham yadet nareh..

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

Stop acting like you are an admissions committee member. Give them all the information they need and leave the rest to the adcoms. By the way davat kon eid biyam khonaton bara eid didani....eidi ham yadet nareh..

Well said. Don't be quick to judge. You never know people as well as you think you do. And try not to think you are better than others. There may be people out there who think the same about you--everything you said about this person.

Edit: Life isn't fair. Just because you worked your butt off doesn't mean anything. Some people will get things easier in life: Some won't. No one is entitled to anything.

 

[EndoDreams]

I would agree with the above posters that you shouldn't judge their motives for applying. You could always just refer them to SDN to have their questions answered. This website, although helpful, can definitely be a reality check on anyone's dreams of going to dental school, financially or academically.

 

[socal6]

Be honest with him since you'd want the same from your colleagues if the situation were reversed. As others have said, it isn't your job to decide if he's worthy of an acceptance; there's an entire committee for that. Everyone has their own story to tell and constantly comparing yourself to others is going to rob you of happiness. Just be content with how well you've done so far and lend a helping hand when you can.

 

[Medin2017]

they don't actually want it, but it's more of a "have nothing better to do after graduation and want to do something" type deal.

Isn't this all of us? If there was something better (more interesting, better pay, better lifestyle, more contribution to society, etc) wouldn't we be doing that instead?

 

[thisismyacct]

I'd help them out. Tell them to shadow 1st and maybe talk about how you need good grades, good DAT score, etc to be a competitive applicant.

 

[DC206R]

Give guidance and let them figure out if it is the right path. Or you can tell them how much it costs to go to school lol. That might deter them.

 

[jdenney741]

Couple of thought....

First off who are you to say he is a horrible and unqualified candidate? That is a little pompous of you no? I take it to heart how you worded this because: A- I didn't realize dentistry was right for me until last December when I started shadowing 6 months before I took the DAT and applied this past cycle. B- I got in being the kid who doesn't have the most stellar grades (3.38 sgpa and 3.3 ogpa, and 19aa dat). C- I worked my butt off to get where I am now. Full time job, full time student, and full time parent of 2 children. If someone were to tell me or think I wasn't as good as they were because I was new to the game is sorely mistaken.

There are a lot of students who pursue something for years to achieve their dreams or sometimes even fail.

My best advice I got after receiving my first 2 C's last semester from a couple of doctors (couple as in married husband and wife) is " don't beat yourself up about your grades. You have life outside of school to deal with. And remember A students work for C students..."

So give your peer the best possible advice to succeed not only will you feel better about yourself for doing so, but he/she may be your boss some day.

 

[Medin2017]

Couple of thought....

First off who are you to say he is a horrible and unqualified candidate? That is a little pompous of you no? I take it to heart how you worded this because: A- I didn't realize dentistry was right for me until last December when I started shadowing 6 months before I took the DAT and applied this past cycle. B- I got in being the kid who doesn't have the most stellar grades (3.38 sgpa and 3.3 ogpa, and 19aa dat). C- I worked my butt off to get where I am now. Full time job, full time student, and full time parent of 2 children. If someone were to tell me or think I wasn't as good as they were because I was new to the game is sorely mistaken.

There are a lot of students who pursue something for years to achieve their dreams or sometimes even fail.

My best advice I got after receiving my first 2 C's last semester from a couple of doctors (couple as in married husband and wife) is " don't beat yourself up about your grades. You have life outside of school to deal with. And remember A students work for C students..."

So give your peer the best possible advice to succeed not only will you feel better about yourself for doing so, but he/she may be your boss some day.

Agreed up until A students work for C students. He/she would "be your boss someday" if they had superior connections or had good business sense, not because they didn't work hard enough to get A's. Not saying you are, but this whole "A students work for C students" seems like something C students tell themselves so they don't feel as bad for being mediocre. It's like the whole "that kid with straight A's must be a nerd with no people skills" . Learn to accept getting a bad grade or two, and work hard to improve yourself: don't tell yourself that those who do well in school will one day have their comeuppance or somehow have lower people skills/managing capabilities. Because there are a whole lot of people out there who make good grades and still will end up the bosses of others.

 

[#cariology]

I personally feel there is nothing wrong with OP recommending that his friend take time off, get a masters degree, and/or fully explore the dental profession before making the commitment to study for the DAT and apply. The combination of a below average resume and relatively recent interest in dentistry does not bode well for this upcoming application cycle. I think OP owes it to his friend to be honest.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Not to be too harsh with the title, but someone I know from a class, who knows I received multiple acceptances to dental schools, is asking me for advice in terms of applying/DAT prep and all the jazz. I've talked to this person before in class about careers and all, and they were lost at the time. Fast forward 3 months and they contact me saying they decided to go dental school and started asking me questions. Now I did my best to answer some questions, but deep down I know that this person would be a HORRIBLE candidate for dental school because they don't actually want it, but it's more of a "have nothing better to do after graduation and want to do something" type deal. Haven't even started shadowing and they want to apply in May. Grades are mediocre and I don't believe they will do well on the DAT. Honestly, if they got into dental school, I'd be pretty p***ed off because I've worked my butt off for years and years to get in and this person decided to give it a go 3 months ago. I thankfully still have hope that the admissions people to weed them out haha (I know that sounds harsh).

Now, if you were in my shoes what would you do? Advise them and hope the admissions committees know how to do their job? Or just tell them to maybe rethink dentistry and convince them to at least take another year to really think, shadow, and work on the app? I don't mind helping them. That's not the problem. I actually really love giving advice and being asked. But I know now as a dental student, I'm going to be getting lots of questions from other pre-dents. Would it be fair to tell them to maybe rethink dentistry if I know they won't do well, or just hold my tongue and help them out regardless?

Someone can decide to be a dentist at any point... I knew someone who decided in less than a year to become a dentist and then got in... Might as well just be nice to them and help them pursue whatever they want. If you are giving off negative vibes, they'll catch on and probably just get help from someone else anyway lol

Give guidance and let them figure out if it is the right path. Or you can tell them how much it costs to go to school lol. That might deter them.

On the flipside, this might be the best way to deter them lol.

 

[aggietxdent]

Couple of thought....

First off who are you to say he is a horrible and unqualified candidate? That is a little pompous of you no? I take it to heart how you worded this because: A- I didn't realize dentistry was right for me until last December when I started shadowing 6 months before I took the DAT and applied this past cycle. B- I got in being the kid who doesn't have the most stellar grades (3.38 sgpa and 3.3 ogpa, and 19aa dat). C- I worked my butt off to get where I am now. Full time job, full time student, and full time parent of 2 children. If someone were to tell me or think I wasn't as good as they were because I was new to the game is sorely mistaken.

There are a lot of students who pursue something for years to achieve their dreams or sometimes even fail.

My best advice I got after receiving my first 2 C's last semester from a couple of doctors (couple as in married husband and wife) is " don't beat yourself up about your grades. You have life outside of school to deal with. And remember A students work for C students..."

So give your peer the best possible advice to succeed not only will you feel better about yourself for doing so, but he/she may be your boss some day.

As much as I enjoyed you mentioning yourself to justify me talking about someone completely different in a completely different situation, I absolutely disagree. If you are truly the hardworking person you say you are, you would laugh at this person I'm talking about. You tell me to give my peer the best possible advice to succeed, but what if I whole heartedly believe that dentistry is not the right path for them towards success? I've spoken to this person already for over 5 hours about careers and life, so I'm not just being a d*ck when I say they're unqualified (and pompous, really?), and I know that they are absolutely clueless about what the career of dentistry really is about. This are one of those people who thinks "oh my grades aren't good enough for med school (and that sounds kinda hard) but I still want lots of money so I'm going to do dentistry which is way easier."

What if I was a vet student and someone came up to me as a 22 year old and said "I like puppies so I'm going to go to vet school now"? Would the best advice as a friend be to push through the application process and succeed and maybe you can be my boss some day? Hell no! You slap them with some reality and facts and tell them to do their research, shadow, and really think it over before you ever waste your time with a DAT prep book.

What this person is asking me for is "how do I get into dental school" advice, like applying and essays and DAT stuff. What I think I need to give them is "dentistry" advice, like what dentistry is about. I know I'm not even a D1 student yet, but I know the general career and obligations of a dentist, to where I can explain that it's not just "easier med school" and going to dental school is not something to take lightly (financially, time, and effort wise)

 

[Faefly]

I don't know why people care about who gets in or who gets out.
Honestly, do grades or finally deciding to become dentists really make a bad or a good dentist? Dentistry is not all about passion and grades, it's also about how good you are at your work! it's a talent! It is an art! (a learnable talent though)
You know many people at this forum wanted to become other things and then finally decided to become dentists, not all people decided to become dentists since they were 16!
It's a process for others, not a natural thing to do, despite that they can make good dentists one day and you the one who wanted it all your life could make (a not so good dentist)
So, why not him? What's wrong with him? There are many people here in the forum with mediocre stats, you are not God and you are not Adcom; they can decide if it's him or not.
Meanwhile, I would refrain from helping him just because it's not sincere help; you actually don't want him to go there. S0, just avoid his calls, he'll find his way if he really wants to go there.

But, I thought adcom wants compassionate people to be dentists .

 

[Advance]

I don't know why people care about who gets in or who gets out.
Honestly, do grades or finally deciding to become dentists really make a bad or a good dentist? Dentistry is not all about passion and grades, it's also about how good you are at your work! it's a talent! It is an art! (a learnable talent though)
You know many people at this forum wanted to become other things and then finally decided to become dentists, not all people decided to become dentists since they were 16!
It's a process for others, not a natural thing to do, despite that they can make good dentists one day and you the one who wanted it all your life could make (a not so good dentist)
So, why not him? What's wrong with him? There are many people here in the forum with mediocre stats, you are not God and you are not Adcom; they can decide if it's him or not.
Meanwhile, I would refrain from helping him just because it's not sincere help; you actually don't want him to go there. S0, just avoid his calls, he'll find his way if he really wants to go there.

But, I thought adcom wants compassionate people to be dentists .

Beleive it or not, there are current dental students that complain when people get in with "lower stats" and they're very vocal about it. I personally don't understand why they even care at this point especially since they've been accepted already.

As much as I enjoyed you mentioning yourself to justify me talking about someone completely different in a completely different situation, I absolutely disagree. If you are truly the hardworking person you say you are, you would laugh at this person I'm talking about. You tell me to give my peer the best possible advice to succeed, but what if I whole heartedly believe that dentistry is not the right path for them towards success? I've spoken to this person already for over 5 hours about careers and life, so I'm not just being a d*ck when I say they're unqualified (and pompous, really?), and I know that they are absolutely clueless about what the career of dentistry really is about. This are one of those people who thinks "oh my grades aren't good enough for med school (and that sounds kinda hard) but I still want lots of money so I'm going to do dentistry which is way easier."

What if I was a vet student and someone came up to me as a 22 year old and said "I like puppies so I'm going to go to vet school now"? Would the best advice as a friend be to push through the application process and succeed and maybe you can be my boss some day? Hell no! You slap them with some reality and facts and tell them to do their research, shadow, and really think it over before you ever waste your time with a DAT prep book.

What this person is asking me for is "how do I get into dental school" advice, like applying and essays and DAT stuff. What I think I need to give them is "dentistry" advice, like what dentistry is about. I know I'm not even a D1 student yet, but I know the general career and obligations of a dentist, to where I can explain that it's not just "easier med school" and going to dental school is not something to take lightly (financially, time, and effort wise)

Honestly when people like that ask for advice I just explain to them that dental school isn't easy. Tell them the average entering stats and DAT scores they need to get in and what their next moves should be to score an acceptance. I would try to avoid coming off as "better" than a Pre-dent because I have X GPA and X DAT and I worked really hard to get accepted (which isn't your intention of course but it could easily be interpreted as that). Also, as far as knowing about the field, there are people in my class that didn't even know about what the different dental specialties did and other basic information about the field either. Even for me, most of my knowledge about dentistry and applying to dental school came from google and SDN when I was a Pre-dent. One of my close classmates was also Pre-med right up until application time then she applied to dental school and got multiple acceptances. When I was talking to her about dentistry she was like "I really don't know much about dentistry I just like the lifestyle; med school is too much of a time commitment". She's absolutely killing it right now in Dental school.

TL;DR People go into dentistry for different reasons. Help them out, give them your blessing and it's up to them to make it happen.

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

OP, is she attractive? This is a very important question.

 

[aggietxdent]

So, why not him? What's wrong with him? There are many people here in the forum with mediocre stats, you are not God and you are not Adcom;

I wasn't really pushing the idea that I wasn't helping this person because of their grades. It was just an observation. I actually think grades shouldn't matter as much because I have quite a few friends with ~3.0 GPAs and sub par DAT scores that had their careers stalled for 2-3 years because they didn't have the grades for an interview, but are going to make great dentists. They were working in dental labs and private practices as assistants and could sit with me for hours and talk about dentistry.

I guess it's mostly just the way this person talks about dentistry that rubs me the wrong way. It's more of a passive afterthought to them like "I guess I'll apply and I guess dentistry is ok whatever" instead of what I know a lot of people (especially on SDN) do which is very active.

I'm sorry if it came out that I was trying to say I was "better" than this person. I don't think that's the case at all. I guess I tend to surround myself with people who really love dentistry through my friends or in my pre-dent organization, so it's kind of a shock when someone talks so "meh" about being a dentist.

Thank you all for you input! I hope this post didn't make me sound like an a**hole

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

I wasn't really pushing the idea that I wasn't helping this person because of their grades. It was just an observation. I actually think grades shouldn't matter as much because I have quite a few friends with ~3.0 GPAs and sub par DAT scores that had their careers stalled for 2-3 years because they didn't have the grades for an interview, but are going to make great dentists. They were working in dental labs and private practices as assistants and could sit with me for hours and talk about dentistry.

I guess it's mostly just the way this person talks about dentistry that rubs me the wrong way. It's more of a passive afterthought to them like "I guess I'll apply and I guess dentistry is ok whatever" instead of what I know a lot of people (especially on SDN) do which is very active.

I'm sorry if it came out that I was trying to say I was "better" than this person. I don't think that's the case at all. I guess I tend to surround myself with people who really love dentistry through my friends or in my pre-dent organization, so it's kind of a shock when someone talks so "meh" about being a dentist.

Thank you all for you input! I hope this post didn't make me sound like an a**hole

OP, I'm glad you're not heading to my dental school. Thank God.

 

[aggietxdent]

OP, is she attractive? This is a very important question.

OP, I'm glad you're not heading to my dental school. Thank God.

It's okay I wouldn't want you perv-ing at my classmates either! 😉

 

[DC206R]

I wasn't really pushing the idea that I wasn't helping this person because of their grades. It was just an observation. I actually think grades shouldn't matter as much because I have quite a few friends with ~3.0 GPAs and sub par DAT scores that had their careers stalled for 2-3 years because they didn't have the grades for an interview, but are going to make great dentists. They were working in dental labs and private practices as assistants and could sit with me for hours and talk about dentistry.

I guess it's mostly just the way this person talks about dentistry that rubs me the wrong way. It's more of a passive afterthought to them like "I guess I'll apply and I guess dentistry is ok whatever" instead of what I know a lot of people (especially on SDN) do which is very active.

I'm sorry if it came out that I was trying to say I was "better" than this person. I don't think that's the case at all. I guess I tend to surround myself with people who really love dentistry through my friends or in my pre-dent organization, so it's kind of a shock when someone talks so "meh" about being a dentist.

Thank you all for you input! I hope this post didn't make me sound like an a**hole

I will agree with this.

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

I wasn't really pushing the idea that I wasn't helping this person because of their grades. It was just an observation. I actually think grades shouldn't matter as much because I have quite a few friends with ~3.0 GPAs and sub par DAT scores that had their careers stalled for 2-3 years because they didn't have the grades for an interview, but are going to make great dentists. They were working in dental labs and private practices as assistants and could sit with me for hours and talk about dentistry.

I guess it's mostly just the way this person talks about dentistry that rubs me the wrong way. It's more of a passive afterthought to them like "I guess I'll apply and I guess dentistry is ok whatever" instead of what I know a lot of people (especially on SDN) do which is very active.

I'm sorry if it came out that I was trying to say I was "better" than this person. I don't think that's the case at all. I guess I tend to surround myself with people who really love dentistry through my friends or in my pre-dent organization, so it's kind of a shock when someone talks so "meh" about being a dentist.

Thank you all for you input! I hope this post didn't make me sound like an a**hole

OP, I feel "meh" about being a dentist. I don't think I'm "better" than you; I just already knew I would get in to dental school pretty easily, which I did. It certainly is more of a passive afterthought to me.

 

[Craig_Sherwood234]

Isn't this all of us? If there was something better (more interesting, better pay, better lifestyle, more contribution to society, etc) wouldn't we be doing that instead?

Don't do that. That requires critical thinking for the OP