Oct 14, 2018
31
7
Ok so nobody responded but I would like to give an update to all the people applying here for TY year. This place lied very much about the amount of inpatient medicine you will be doing. They provide a sample that says 2 months of inpatient, that is a lie. It is currently 5 months plus surgery, plus EM and one month of nights. It is a glorified prelim year. The GME basically told us to suck it up, the town is terrible, your inpatient days are 6:30 and to 5pm and 3 times a week you stay until 7pm. Surgery is 5am-5pm everyday for a month. The GME is not very flexible and they seemed bothered with the little things even though it is literally their job. Overall not a good program and I would not recommend going here.
 
About the Ads

rokshana

Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
4,808
5,086
Status
Attending Physician
Henry Ford Allegiance is a community hospital in Jackson, MI. They r associated with Henry Ford
And you didn’t get a feel for that when you went on your interview?
It looks like a suburb of Detroit...it’s Detroit.

Keep your head down and get through your 9 more months and be happy you don’t have to stay here for your advanced position...but don’t screw up...then you may not be able to get to your advanced position.
 
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
In my interview the resident said they r out at 3 everyday on inpatient and have 3 months of inpatient. They just switched the schedule after the match. Overall it didn’t seem bad but it’s just a glorified prelim. It’s like over an hour from Detroit. So your comment is keep my head down and don’t screw up? Bro that’s what I am doing, I just wanted to warn others not to go here bc they lie about the schedule. And what is messing up anyway? Either way at least their is info out now about this place.
 

gutonc

No Meat, No Treat
Staff member
Administrator
15+ Year Member
Mar 6, 2005
19,133
12,880
Status
Attending Physician
In my interview the resident said they r out at 3 everyday on inpatient and have 3 months of inpatient. They just switched the schedule after the match. Overall it didn’t seem bad but it’s just a glorified prelim. It’s like over an hour from Detroit. So your comment is keep my head down and don’t screw up? Bro that’s what I am doing, I just wanted to warn others not to go here bc they lie about the schedule. And what is messing up anyway? Either way at least their is info out now about this place.
Dude...nobody lied to you about the schedule. What they told you was correct at the time. And then it changed. That's life.

My intern year schedule (number and organization of rotations, NF vs overnight call, etc) got changed 4 times between July and October. It's life. You either roll with it or you're miserable. Your choice.
 

rokshana

Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
4,808
5,086
Status
Attending Physician
In my interview the resident said they r out at 3 everyday on inpatient and have 3 months of inpatient. They just switched the schedule after the match. Overall it didn’t seem bad but it’s just a glorified prelim. It’s like over an hour from Detroit. So your comment is keep my head down and don’t screw up? Bro that’s what I am doing, I just wanted to warn others not to go here bc they lie about the schedule. And what is messing up anyway? Either way at least their is info out now about this place.
I believe something came up between the time you interviewed and started internship...just a little thing called COVID...and programs change schedules all the time...I ended up doing a month of nephrology in 1st year and then again in my 2nd year because they decided to change it to the second year.
Trust me, it’s the same everywhere...

And I’m “sis” not “bro” .
 
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
Well considering they gave us a “sample schedule” that showed 3 months of inpatient, I think it’s way closer to being untruthful. It’s not sketchy to you that a program can just add new months of inpatient medicine after you match. That doesn’t make sense to me. I would have picked a different program with the info I know now. Don’t you think if they provide you a schedule that says 3 months of inpatient that they should have to stick with that because I make my rank list off the info they provide in the interview? The mentality of just roll with it gives programs all the power. Like seriously why should I do more inpatient, which I hate, for no reason. But I get sense medicine is don’t complain and do as your told. I just wanted to show people that this program is not as they advertise it. So I will just suck it up I guess.
 
Last edited:
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
I believe something came up between the time you interviewed and started internship...just a little thing called COVID...and programs change schedules all the time...I ended up doing a month of nephrology in 1st year and then again in my 2nd year because they decided to change it to the second year.
Trust me, it’s the same everywhere...

And I’m “sis” not “bro” .
Well sis, that’s not exactly the same. We are only here one year, they knew we wanted less inpatient. They added nephro to you your schedule but I would bet they didn’t switch it with an elective. So now we have 2 electives rather than having 5 electives. That’s a huge deal to me. That’s 5 chill months vs 2 chill months. I picked this place as a TY because of how chill it was going to be. The fact of them providing us info that says 3 months inpatient then switching it to 5 is untruthful. That’s misleading us in the program. That’s a bait and switch. So I am just supposed to be like “oh well, guess I will do more inpatient because they said so”. That’s gives programs all the power to present you a sweet schedule then make it terrible after you match without concern.
 
Last edited:

smq123

John William Waterhouse
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Jan 9, 2006
14,262
4,472
Status
Attending Physician
Dude, it's a year. 3 more months of inpatient isn't going to kill you. Just suck it up and let it go. I promise, you'll survive.

As others have said, COVID has changed everything. Maybe they need more coverage than they thought. Whatever. Things happen.

Plus, if this is the worst thing that can happen to you as an intern, consider yourself lucky. Way worse things can, and have, happened.

And if you didn't realize that the programs carry all the power, in general, well...now you know.
 
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
Dude, it's a year. 3 more months of inpatient isn't going to kill you. Just suck it up and let it go. I promise, you'll survive.

As others have said, COVID has changed everything. Maybe they need more coverage than they thought. Whatever. Things happen.

Plus, if this is the worst thing that can happen to you as an intern, consider yourself lucky. Way worse things can, and have, happened.

And if you didn't realize that the programs carry all the power, in general, well...now you know.
Yeah I get the vibe of the responses i have received is to suck it up. I hate inpatient, that’s y I choose this program. I didn’t say it would kill me but I wanted less inpatient and I would have went somewhere better if they had been honest up front. It’s also very unprofessional to change after a contract has been signed. I doubt it’s COVID, they just needed more inpatient months covered. They let the IM people on floors get 2 days a week of clinic meaning they need us to cover them 4 days a week. Yeah I understand people have it worse. The classics are suck it up and I had it worse. I get it. However that does not change the fact that programs should have to stick with what they provide you in interviews. I could be at a place with 6 months electives but I choose here instead. I swear any complaint in medicine=suck it up. That’s so ignorant of an entire profession to have that mentality.
 

gutonc

No Meat, No Treat
Staff member
Administrator
15+ Year Member
Mar 6, 2005
19,133
12,880
Status
Attending Physician
Yeah I get the vibe of the responses i have received is to suck it up. I hate inpatient, that’s y I choose this program. I didn’t say it would kill me but I wanted less inpatient and I would have went somewhere better if they had been honest up front. It’s also very unprofessional to change after a contract has been signed. I doubt it’s COVID, they just needed more inpatient months covered. They let the IM people on floors get 2 days a week of clinic meaning they need us to cover them 4 days a week. Yeah I understand people have it worse. The classics are suck it up and I had it worse. I get it. However that does not change the fact that programs should have to stick with what they provide you in interviews. I could be at a place with 6 months electives but I choose here instead. I swear any complaint in medicine=suck it up. That’s so ignorant of an entire profession to have that mentality.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've never had a real job before this. That's not medicine, that's the universe.

And there are absolutely things that need to be fought back against, and many of us do it a lot. But only when it really matters. People who complain about every little annoyance are the ones that people stop listening to pretty quickly.

As to your assertion that they should have stuck to the sample schedule, I don't think anyone would argue against you. But unless it was specifically written into your contract, it's just that...a sample. I assure you nobody was showing you that last October and thinking, "Oh man...it's going to be so great to see Stragetamer0619's face when shows up in July and we completely (*&%ed him over with this new schedule". Something clearly happened that required a change.

I'm curious what your PD had to see when you approached her/him and asked "hey, Dr. PD, I noticed that this year's schedule is a lot different than what was discussed at my interview. I'm curious what happened to provoke that change?". Chances are pretty good you'll find a non-malicious reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sb247 and smq123
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've never had a real job before this. That's not medicine, that's the universe.

And there are absolutely things that need to be fought back against, and many of us do it a lot. But only when it really matters. People who complain about every little annoyance are the ones that people stop listening to pretty quickly.

As to your assertion that they should have stuck to the sample schedule, I don't think anyone would argue against you. But unless it was specifically written into your contract, it's just that...a sample. I assure you nobody was showing you that last October and thinking, "Oh man...it's going to be so great to see Stragetamer0619's face when shows up in July and we completely (*&%ed him over with this new schedule". Something clearly happened that required a change.

I'm curious what your PD had to see when you approached her/him and asked "hey, Dr. PD, I noticed that this year's schedule is a lot different than what was discussed at my interview. I'm curious what happened to provoke that change?". Chances are pretty good you'll find a non-malicious reason.
Yes I have had other jobs before. However in those positions if they said no weekends then made me work a ton of weekends I would complain then if nothing changed, find a new job. This is different. They hold my career in their hands.

I don’t complain over every little thing. In the grand scheme of medicine it’s small, however to the group that feel cheated it’s a big deal. It’s a whole year I am away from family and on top now I work more on a field I didn’t want to work in.

I agree it’s not malicious. However we should be notified before match that it will be changing. When I asked “any changes coming” and they said no, that means they should tell the people who interviewed that a change was coming. yeah sample schedule is not rock solid, however why provide a schedule? Why show us that to only change after we can’t get out of it. Look I just wanted to let people know that r looking at this program that they did this. I will have to suck it up, per every comment, however that does not change the fact that i believe what they did was wrong.

These programs need residents, without our cheap labor they wouldn’t be able to function without losing money. I feel like most attendings look at it like it’s just another obstacle to overcome, when in fact it should be about learning. Do you remember learning anything useful on the 24th hour of a shift when your to tired to drive home, prob not. This is something simple but it just shows that something needs to be done so the power is not so one sided. However it will never happen when people say “suck it up”, or “could be worse”. Oh and I know you all will not agree btw.
 
Last edited:

DoctwoB

10+ Year Member
Jan 10, 2010
1,877
1,304
Status
Attending Physician
I'm just not sure what you see as being the solution. Your schedule is in compliance with ACGME rules and the employment contract you signed.

Is it sketchy to show you one schedule and give you another? Absolutely. And you are well within your rights to warn others off this program or quit. And yes, it is well known that resident physicians, due to requiring a residency to practice, are a population with limited options. But what is your solution?
 

rokshana

Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
4,808
5,086
Status
Attending Physician
Yes I have had other jobs before. However in those positions if they said no weekends then made me work a ton of weekends I would complain then if nothing changed, find a new job. This is different. They hold my career in their hands.

I don’t complain over every little thing. In the grand scheme of medicine it’s small, however to the group that feel cheated it’s a big deal. It’s a whole year I am away from family and on top now I work more on a field I didn’t want to work in.

I agree it’s not malicious. However we should be notified before match that it will be changing. When I asked “any changes coming” and they said no, that means they should tell the people who interviewed that a change was coming. yeah sample schedule is not rock solid, however why provide a schedule? Why show us that to only change after we can’t get out of it. Look I just wanted to let people know that r looking at this program that they did this. I will have to suck it up, per every comment, however that does not change the fact that i believe what they did was wrong.

These programs need residents, without our cheap labor they wouldn’t be able to function without losing money. I feel like most attendings look at it like it’s just another obstacle to overcome, when in fact it should be about learning. Do you remember learning anything useful on the 24th hour of a shift when your to tired to drive home, prob not. This is something simple but it just shows that something needs to be done so the power is not so one sided. However it will never happen when people say “suck it up”, or “could be worse”. Oh and I know you all will not agree btw.
Does it actual say in your signed contract the number of electives a d the number of inpt months? I doubt it. If it does, then you have a leg to stand on and can tell your pd that you won’t be working those inpt months per your contract.
So long as they are not violating any ACGME rules, they are ok.

It could be worse ...it could be all inpt between IM, surgery, and ob...

And yes, some of the most important things I learned in residency came during those overnight calls (ours were 30 hours in 2008) and NF shifts.

Take the opportunity it learn what you can ...but out of curiosity what is your adv position? Can’t think of anything that doesn’t have an inpt component to it.
 
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
I'm just not sure what you see as being the solution. Your schedule is in compliance with ACGME rules and the employment contract you signed.

Is it sketchy to show you one schedule and give you another? Absolutely. And you are well within your rights to warn others off this program or quit. And yes, it is well known that resident physicians, due to requiring a residency to practice, are a population with limited options. But what is your solution?
Yes it’s in compliance, that part I can’t fight. I don’t have a solution. It’s definitely something that would be done in steps. For that to happen residents would need a group to advocate for us. Acgme is full of old school physicians who are the ones who say “suck it up”.
So we need our own group but in our position it’s hard to find the time to organize and I think programs bank on that. One thing is make reviews of the program by residents available on the ACGME website, anonymously of course. Post residents duty hours as well so we no longer rely on residents in the interview. Create some trials that focus on resident wellness to see what we need. These hospitals get paid by the government for us to be there so make their payment based of resident reviews. Low reviews get docked money, over duty hours shows a red flag on acgme. Make residencies provide a sample schedule of a resident, so we see what to expect and they have to stick to that schedule unless something huge(covid) happen.
This is off the top of my head and a lot of smart residents can add way more. My point is there r ways to make it better. I don’t have the answer but I just feel we need more balance in this system.
 
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
Does it actual say in your signed contract the number of electives a d the number of inpt months? I doubt it. If it does, then you have a leg to stand on and can tell your pd that you won’t be working those inpt months per your contract.
So long as they are not violating any ACGME rules, they are ok.

It could be worse ...it could be all inpt between IM, surgery, and ob...

And yes, some of the most important things I learned in residency came during those overnight calls (ours were 30 hours in 2008) and NF shifts.

Take the opportunity it learn what you can ...but out of curiosity what is your adv position? Can’t think of anything that doesn’t have an inpt component to it.
My contract has 16 weeks of inpatient and 4 weeks night float. My point was the contract is given to us after we matched. So at that point my options were sign the contact or don’t sign and soap. So I had to sign or risk losing my advanced spot in the soap. To me that’s classic bait and switch. Malicious or not that switch should have been told to every interviewer prior to match in some way.
Again I know it could be worse. However I had way better options. I could have went somewhere way more chill but instead I went here. So it could be better for me if they had told me up front about the changes.
You say that but everyone I see on the 24th hour can’t keep their eyes open. I remember way more when I am not tired enough to pass out standing up.

Well advanced like Derm or rads/rad onc don’t involve much inpatient medicine at all. But people say “it’s important to know the work up of inpatient disease so that I can give recommendations in my report”. So I should do inpatient 12-13 hrs a day to learn one tiny detail of their care? Doesn’t make sense to me. Most of my TY has been me being a note bitch and learning random inpatient criteria that won’t help me in any way. I look at films but I am not learning anything.

I will finish up this year and be fine. However I could be chilling somewhere better and that annoys me.
 
Last edited:

DarkHorizon

Probationary Status
10+ Year Member
Mar 20, 2008
763
931
Status
Attending Physician
My contract has 16 weeks of inpatient and 4 weeks night float. My point was the contract is given to us after we matched. So at that point my options were sign the contact or don’t sign and soap. So I had to sign or risk losing my advanced spot in the soap. To me that’s classic bait and switch. Malicious or not that switch should have been told to every interviewer prior to match in some way.
Again I know it could be worse. However I had way better options. I could have went somewhere way more chill but instead I went here. So it could be better for me if they had told me up front about the changes.
You say that but everyone I see on the 24th hour can’t keep their eyes open. I remember way more when I am not tired enough to pass out standing up.

Well advanced like Derm or rads/rad onc don’t involve much inpatient medicine at all. But people say “it’s important to know the work up of inpatient disease so that I can give recommendations in my report”. So I should do inpatient 12-13 hrs a day to learn one tiny detail of their care? Doesn’t make sense to me. Most of my TY has been me being a note bitch and learning random inpatient criteria that won’t help me in any way. I look at films but I am not learning anything.

I will finish up this year and be fine. However I could be chilling somewhere better and that annoys me.
What’s the plan after this year? I assume an advanced residency programs like PMR, Anesthesia, Rads, or Derm?

Btw, every intern is a note bitch, this is nothing new. This is universally the case. As an intern, you’re not very important other than being a note bitch and floor bitch. You follow the orders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rokshana
Oct 14, 2018
31
7
What’s the plan after this year? I assume an advanced residency programs like PMR, Anesthesia, Rads, or Derm?

Btw, every intern is a note bitch, this is nothing new. This is universally the case. As an intern, you’re not very important other than being a note bitch and floor bitch. You follow the orders.
Yeah I already matched my advanced specialty. That is the reason I had to sign the contract because I didn’t want to mess that up.
I know interns are note bitches, I was well aware before I started. However what do I learn for my specialty by blindly following orders and writing notes? The answer is nothing. Everyone says “try to learn something.” TY, prelims are literally such a waste. Doesn’t matter, I am here now and will finish this waste of time out
 

rokshana

Member
15+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
4,808
5,086
Status
Attending Physician
My contract has 16 weeks of inpatient and 4 weeks night float. My point was the contract is given to us after we matched. So at that point my options were sign the contact or don’t sign and soap. So I had to sign or risk losing my advanced spot in the soap. To me that’s classic bait and switch. Malicious or not that switch should have been told to every interviewer prior to match in some way.
Again I know it could be worse. However I had way better options. I could have went somewhere way more chill but instead I went here. So it could be better for me if they had told me up front about the changes.
You say that but everyone I see on the 24th hour can’t keep their eyes open. I remember way more when I am not tired enough to pass out standing up.

Well advanced like Derm or rads/rad onc don’t involve much inpatient medicine at all. But people say “it’s important to know the work up of inpatient disease so that I can give recommendations in my report”. So I should do inpatient 12-13 hrs a day to learn one tiny detail of their care? Doesn’t make sense to me. Most of my TY has been me being a note bitch and learning random inpatient criteria that won’t help me in any way. I look at films but I am not learning anything.

I will finish up this year and be fine. However I could be chilling somewhere better and that annoys me.
But it looks like, based on your posting history, you matched for radiology...I would imagine you spend most of your 4 years in the hospital.
 
About the Ads