Hey car nerds....

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Still obsessed with the Euro? Not sure why I should expect otherwise...bringing up Saddam and the Iraq Euro fad from back in '02. This isn't 2002. The Euro isn't doing jack. The Ruble is now the #1 competitor with the dollar long term. Read up, son.

Euro isn't doing jack because we took necessary steps to take Saddam out with a clear message to OPEC. So don't support Russia.


Sure, I care...why do you think he's so cozy with the Russians? But he's not powerful enough to mean anything...and he really is just a crazy small time nothing that pisses off the US because he can...

But who do we get oil from?


...and who's dumping the dollar at the fastest rate? Who is getting in with the Russians to open up a ruble oil-trade?

And how does that change anything if you bought a used Suby?

They had a "negative" effect in the sense that they reused to take a minimum wage for high-level work. The reason the auto industry "died" is because labor in less industrialized nations is insanely cheap. If there was no union at all, the US manufacturers would have still been unable to compete with the sweat shop an ocean away. Why would they work for $10/hour working in hellish conditions when they could make twice that in the service industry as an insurance salesman?

Do Toyota and Honda workers in the US work for $10 per hour? Didn't think so.

Yeah.."artificially." They made a product and bargained. They have power. As soon as the American worker grows a pair, they run off and pay very, very poor workers **** for their labor. And if it was that big of a deal, they could just not hire the union. But guess what...American labor is more expensive, period. Non-union manufacturing jobs have gone away, too. A union is not some magical evil death-knoll to American manufacturing. The existence of third world labor that works for 1/20th the price is. It's all fluid, anyway. I could just as easily say that the American workers get a fair wage and it's the third-world labor that artificially lowers the wage.

So should you thank foreign auto makers who set up shop in the US with US workers?

I can complain about wealth stratification here, but in China it's disgusting. They need unions and wage reform over there like crazy. They are being exploited. If we had balls, we'd cut off trade to them until they reformed both economic and human rights issues...but we don't...we like our little fiat gravy train too much, right?

Cut off trade with China? LMAO. This will give them more reasons to cozy up with the Russians! Good going Mikey.

That's not a black vs. white concept...making a "take your pick" question out of the subject is incredibly shallow and short-sigthed. If you want to bury your head in the sand, feel free. But crazy old Stalin was right. The capitalists will sell you the rope you hang them with. It's basically our economy over the last 30 years in a nutshell.

Nope... you use "That's just capitalism" statement but when the real capitalism affects the US, you cry foul.


Like I said, assembled in the US...parts from multiple countries. Learn to read, oh wise genius.

Go look at your VIZIO and see where it was assembled and see if it says "Made in Taiwan." That sounds like assembled overseas with parts from multiple countries. Genius.:meanie:


Yeah, ok...back in the real world, that's not realistic. Your entire logic for anything relies on over-the-top hyperbole and black vs. white logic with no shades of gray as an option. How the hell can you support US companies when foreign manufacturers have a monopoly on the market? It's a weak-ass "gotcha" argument you are trying to turn into a slippery-slope argument. No, if I try to support US companies above foreign companies, it does not mean I can't use things that US manufacturers do not produce.

Hey...true nationalist would still use Zenith tube TV with a digital converter. That's love for America.
 
It increases resale value...plus I think Subarus look stupid. Every damn one has that ugly ass faux-intake hood. Like that little inline 4 banger some of those models have requires such ventilation. It's like they are trying to be those idiots that take a Honda Civic, put it on 22s, put a spoiler on a FWD, and put a front bumber dam on the thing that's the size of a small country...with ground effects...and those stupid exhausts that make your car sound like a riding lawn mower. 🙄

And Taurus doesn't look stupid?


Man, Subarus aren't any safer than an AWD Volvo or Ford, anyway. Especially Volvo...they are the reknowned king of safety...and owned by Ford. I'm kinda liking their wagon-looking things. XC70, XC90....

I don't know...the way Volvo was looks on the video, I would think Suby is safer by avoiding accidents.
 
That's because they had a ****ty union. Other unions are making their employees more money and a larger share of corporate profit. Just because one corporation fails, does it mean they are all then failures and that the concept is then a failure? It's a business with a product to sell just like anything else. It is a manifestation of capitalism that businessmen and supporters of the "free market" have to deal with. People don't seem to realize that.

USWA a ****ty union? Let's ask steel workers what they think about it. But they clearly didn't know healtchare. What good is a union if they squeeze a corporation to the point of bankrupcy? Did my pharm techs need a protection from the union? Do the auto workers of Toyota and Honda plants in the US need a union today? This isn't the 1950's.

Would you join a union and sacrifice patient care if they call for a strike?
 
1. Not every Subaru has that hood.
2. I'm not sure about older models but they ARE functional.
2007_suburu_wrx_sti_limited_3.jpg
 
Euro isn't doing jack because we took necessary steps to take Saddam out with a clear message to OPEC. So don't support Russia.

Hahaha. Um, no. Invading Iraq did not "resonate" like that. Europe has problems internally that has made it a less attractive fiat than the ruble...which is now considered among the most stable currencies in the world. It's more about their failures than the US invading Iraq.

But who do we get oil from?

Them and dozens of other countries that aren't going to let crazy old Chavez dictate how they collectively operate.

And how does that change anything if you bought a used Suby?

*Ahem.* Buying a used Subaru intrinsically increases the resale value of that model intrinsically. One of the major reason people buy established car models is due to resale value. Ergo, it helps the Japanese economy moreso than it would affect the US economy. Plus, were I to need OEM parts, it would also directly help them moreso than buying a US product. Decreasing the trade deficit is a way to strengthen the dollar as its is thus not intrinsically devalued as a fiat and, thus, more attractive to foreign banks...

Do Toyota and Honda workers in the US work for $10 per hour? Didn't think so.

Ok, if it is an American MADE car, I would then consider it. Show me such models and I may consider them. I considered the Matrix. The engine for it is made in WV. Though I prefer US made from US company. Like my Tauruses. One is made in Chicago, the other in Atlanta.

So should you thank foreign auto makers who set up shop in the US with US workers?

Certainly moreso than Subaru. A fraction of their manufacturing is in the US...some SUV nobody likes. All of their sedans are made in Japan.


Cut off trade with China? LMAO. This will give them more reasons to cozy up with the Russians! Good going Mikey.

Now you are actually talking good smack. You are right, just cutting them off is a bad idea. But there are things we could do to subtly nudge them in the correct direction. If we let all of this play out, the US will just be replaced...and we'll all be screwed...

Nope... you use "That's just capitalism" statement but when the real capitalism affects the US, you cry foul.

No, I accept that they are both capitalism and I am crying foul because it negatively affects the US economy and would like to not contribute to it...

Go look at your VIZIO and see where it was assembled and see if it says "Made in Taiwan." That sounds like assembled overseas with parts from multiple countries. Genius.:meanie:

It died...and I remembered seeing that it was assembled in California somewhere.

Hey...true nationalist would still use Zenith tube TV with a digital converter. That's love for America.

Zenith is owned by LG...and all of the HDTVs out there are just relabeled LGs...
 
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USWA a ****ty union? Let's ask steel workers what they think about it. But they clearly didn't know healtchare. What good is a union if they squeeze a corporation to the point of bankrupcy? Did my pharm techs need a protection from the union? Do the auto workers of Toyota and Honda plants in the US need a union today? This isn't the 1950's.

I do agree, some people don't need a union. Like physicians. But others do. Like Walmart...and the auto workers. They would have just gone from decent pay to getting paid peanuts if there was no union...until they just got laid off and replaced. They SHOULD have banded together and fought. But they were replaced by foreign workers that work for much less than US workers. Even if there was no union, it wouldn't have changed. I bet if there was a national customer support union, you'd blame them for my customer support calls to Dell being taken by a dude in India, too. Again, blaming a workers' union for the deindustrialization of the US is short sighted...





Would you join a union and sacrifice patient care if they call for a strike?

Back to black versus white again? If that's the case, then they should turn to civil disobedience as a group. Be creative. There would be ways to do things that doesn't compromise patient care.
 
No one said you did. You can get an 02+ (with the functional hood) in your price range.

Don't need that much power. I have a different, much older car I'm buying back from a friend I'm going to fix up and play with for the purpose of being my fun weekend car. I just need a commuter car with AWD for the icy hills and valleys on my way to work. 325HP ain't necessary...lol...
 
There's always the RS version, which doesn't come with a turbo or a hood scoop while maintaining the AWD.
 
It always makes me laugh whenever people get all "buy an american car or your a russian!" when in reality there is no such thing as an all american car. Ford and Gm buy parts from mexico and canada. Dodge is partially-fully owned by a german company (not sure if its official yet). Yet toyotas are being built in american now?

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as patriotic as the next american. I come from a small bluecollar country town and I value the work of the "little guys" as alan jackson says. I'm also a diehard ford fan till I die, so don't think I'm anti big three.
 
It always makes me laugh whenever people get all "buy an american car or your a russian!" when in reality there is no such thing as an all american car. Ford and Gm buy parts from mexico and canada. Dodge is partially-fully owned by a german company (not sure if its official yet). Yet toyotas are being built in american now?

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as patriotic as the next american. I come from a small bluecollar country town and I value the work of the "little guys" as alan jackson says. I'm also a diehard ford fan till I die, so don't think I'm anti big three.

Yup, you're right. But you gotta try to support US business and workers as much as you can.
 
I agree with you 100% that we should support american workers, I wasn't implying anything else. Like I said Im a diehard ford fan 👍 (best vehicles around), 👍.
 
what about toyota and hyundai having factories in the USA and employing Americans to work at these factories?

(I think I drove past the Hyundai one in Alabama on last summers cross-country road trip)
 
Huan and Toy do have factories here in the states and I think its great that happened because it opened up alot of jobs for americans. The only thing is that a large portion of the profits go back to corporate bigwigs in their respective countries. Its a complex economical situation and for the sake of our country's automotive industry I wish it was as simply as "car manufacturer a,b,c and d" keep all their money in the state.
 
The salesmen at these places crack me up. After telling the ***** I wasn't going to buy today because I don't like making quick decisions, some lunatic designated home run hitter of a salesman pops in out of nowhere, screams at me for 45 seconds about how I could pay less for a new Jeep Patriot than a used Jeep Liberty. After telling him this makes no sense at all and flies in the face of logic, he gets up and walks off with his hands in the air, mumbling to himself, passes the other salesman that was working me prior and goes, "He doesn't want a new car, doesn't matter if I *give* it away!" He also looked EXACTLY like the bad guy from Karate Kid III. You know, the greasy guy with a pony tail?
karate_kid_iii.jpg
Dude was totally either hopped up on coke or roids. **** was hysterical.

After hitting the car lots, I've decided that I actually will get an SUV. Everyone is unloading them and they are cheap as hell, coming with certified used car warranties and all. It's pretty sweet.

I'm down to two finalists:

2006 Jeep Liberty - V6 - 26,000 miles - $11,499 - 8/80k warranty
2006 Ford Escape - Inline 4 - 39,000 miles - $12,300 - 6/100k warranty

I liked the ride of the Escape more, but the Liberty looks more badass and I have a feeling it will be much more useful in the winter. Plus the 'roid raging nutjob was the one peddling the liberty. That's a knock against it already. On the other hand, if I don't buy it, I fear he may come stalk me in my sleep.
 
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I would take the Ford. The reason being Ford's reliability has been improving A LOT. Check out consumerreport.com. I have heard good things about escape. I would not buy a chrysler because all my friends' jeeps are all fu..ed up. In terms of styles, I would choose Jeep any day though.


No love for Japanese car? Comeon, a 4runner will last you another 10 years.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Surprised here that nobody has mentioned the Jeep Cherokee.

The straight six engine is really tough. I currently own a 92, with 180k and it just keeps going and going. The only downsides I think are fuel economy, and overheating. Most jeep owners tell you that their jeeps tend to run hot, at least the ones driving cherokees.
As for MPG, fueleconomy.gov has the latest listings. I avg around 16-17mpg city/hwy.

For normal cherokee, I think the last year with the good engine was 2001. The last year for grand cherokee with the inline six was 2004. Still, both are going to be well under your 14k limit. Both have 4x4 options as well, and will do fine in the snow.
 
go for the ford, the jeep liberty is widely seen as "chick car" material and my friend has an escape with no complaints so far
btw I wouldn't test CR on their car reviews.. they're always biased
 
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