Hey, why does everyone hate nurse practitioners?

[FoughtFyr]

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my head just exploded after reading that...

wow

I really am not worthy, whomever the hell Osler was...

Osler was the father of modern medical education. Here is a good bio: http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/1627.html

If you are looking for a good (but heavy) read, try this:
Aequanimitas:With Other Adresses to Medical Students, Nurses, and Practitioners of Medicine - A collection of some of the best medical education essays ever written.

- H

 

[deleted87716]

There's an Osler quote for almost every occasion:

"The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler 😉

 

[alpha62]

Are you calling the pope ignorant then ?

He's chief dogmatist in charge of his organization

 

[deleted87716]

Are you calling the pope ignorant then ?

I think you're on the wrong forum. 🙄

 

[alpha62]

You quoted dogma. It's been around before Dr. Osler.

I think you're on the wrong forum. 🙄

 

[deleted87716]

You quoted dogma. It's been around before Dr. Osler.

No, I quoted Osler. Osler used the word "dogmatism." The word "dogmatism" has meaning outside its use in religion. This thread is not about religion. Connect the dots.

 

[FoughtFyr]

You quoted dogma. It's been around before Dr. Osler.

Yep. And the sun has been around long before my neice, but I still love it when she says "Do you want to go outside and push me on the swing - the sun feels soooooo good!"

Seriously, crawl back under the bridge.

- H

 

[alpha62]

Everybody seems to think they're on the "right" side these days. It's all connected.

Chief defenders of the faith and true believers are making it difficult for everybody in all areas of life.

It doesn't seem to matter if you're talking church, war, gov't... or medicine

It's allllllll connected and it's the same mentality at work.

No, I quoted Osler. Osler used the word "dogma." The word "dogma" has meaning outside its use in religion. This thread is not about religion. Connect the dots.

 

[deleted87716]

Everybody seems to think they're on the "right" side these days. It's all connected.

Chief defenders of the faith and true believers are making it difficult for everybody in all areas of life.

It doesn't seem to matter if you're talking church, war, gov't... or medicine

It's allllllll connected and it's the same mentality at work.

Well, at least you get it. You could've said so before.

 

[alpha62]

that's what trolls do. The devour unsuspecting rubes that are too preoccupied with butterflys and rainbows to recognize the dangers of the world they actually live in.

Yep. And the sun has been around long before my neice, but I still love it when she says "Do you want to go outside and push me on the swing - the sun feels soooooo good!"

Seriously, crawl back under the bridge.

- H

 

[alpha62]

Everybody on here is supposed to be so smart, I was counting on them to figure it out. Note taking service instead of going to class can do that to a guy

Well, at least you get it. You could've said so before.

 

[deleted87716]

that's what trolls do. The devour unsuspecting rubes that are too preoccupied with butterflys and rainbows to recognize the dangers of the world they actually live in.

Since this is the second time that you've admitted to trolling, I need to remind you that trolling is a violation of SDN's Terms of Service, which I suggest you review here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/faq.php?faq=about_sdn#faq_sdn_terms_of_service

 

[alpha62]

since this thread is "why I hate NPs" this whole turn helps my point.

Some people got their "feelings" hurt with my post I'll explain. "Feelings" are the new currency, far outweighing substance, facts, data..... you know, all the crap we stayed up all those night learning because it was supposed to be so important ?

Well, "feelings" are what N.P. seem to specialize in. I get a pt. with a BS of 600, two gangrene toes, and is already in renal failure. The last note from the N.P. goes into great detail about the pts self-esteem, why the DM is all his mother's fault, his two kids are cross-dressers and that should be "celebrated" not creating conflict which is causing the pt. to over-eat, thus the true nature of the DM.

This kind of stuff is "why I don't like N.P.s"

Please don't confuse critical thinking skills with trolling. I hope this connected the dots for everyone in a real world scenero

Since this is the second time that you've admitted to trolling, I need to remind you that trolling is a violation of SDN's Terms of Service, which I suggest you review here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/faq.php?faq=about_sdn#faq_sdn_terms_of_service

 

[deleted87716]

Please don't confuse critical thinking skills with trolling.

There's a difference between posting a controversial opinion and trolling. The TOS explains this pretty clearly. Obviously, we have nothing against controversial opinions around here, as this thread proves.

If you hadn't claimed to be trolling in the first place (twice), I don't think your posts would've even raised an eyebrow. They were pretty tame, IMO. However, trolling causes significant disruptions to the SDN community, and is dealt with harshly. It's not something you want to joke about.

As for other people calling you a troll, I've found this usually doesn't happen if you don't act like one. 😉

 

[alpha62]

Well, somebody told me to go back under the bridge and it was off to the races after that.

Again, this is how the NPs got a toehold, the rest of us were too busy giving each other a wedgie to notice what they were doing.

There's a difference between posting a controversial opinion and trolling. The TOS explains this pretty clearly. Obviously, we have nothing against controversial opinions around here, as this thread proves.

If you hadn't claimed to be trolling in the first place (twice), I don't think your posts would've even raised an eyebrow. They were pretty tame, IMO. However, trolling causes significant disruptions to the SDN community, and is dealt with harshly. It's not something you want to joke about.

As for other people calling you a troll, I've found this usually doesn't happen if you don't act like one. 😉

 

[Tired]

Well, "feelings" are what N.P. seem to specialize in. I get a pt. with a BS of 600, two gangrene toes, and is already in renal failure. The last note from the N.P. goes into great detail about the pts self-esteem, why the DM is all his mother's fault, his two kids are cross-dressers and that should be "celebrated" not creating conflict which is causing the pt. to over-eat, thus the true nature of the DM.

Wow.

Let me say what everyone else is thinking:

Your little story is total bull$hit.

 

[alpha62]

don't know what year you are in, or how old you are, but where do you think all these menopausal flower children went to after the acid trip wore off ?

Wow.

Let me say what everyone else is thinking:

Your little story is total bull$hit.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Back on subject:

My experiences and observations mirror others on this forum that the amount of nursing theory papers was way out of proportion to the value gained, and at the expense of medical science and clinical education.

My wife has similar experiences as Fab4fan: she likes nursing but has reached her limit and is bored in ICU. She is ready to do more and hated the thought of all of the NP theory classes or nursing mgmt -- been there, done that, hated it. She found the PA route had the most options.

I hope - but doubt - NPs and PAs can move closer rather than further apart in their training, because they basically do the same thing. Also, RNs have the best medical experience as a foundation to become mid-levels, but NP education in many programs isn't up to snuff.

 

[alpha62]

No need to become stagnant in nursing. There's always a second career opition:


http://www.holysmoke.org/wicca/ft-hood.htm

Probably plenty of openings now, all the witches have probably been deployed.

Oh yeah, they've got it together alright. I'm making it all up

 

[deleted87716]

No need to become stagnant in nursing. There's always a second career opition

What we have here...is failure to communicate.

Knock it off.

 

[fab4fan]

Bored was I also...and never plan to set foot in another hospital...except to visit. Why don't you investigate what I'm doing...training as a shaman? Now think before you think I'm fricken nuts! Our sessions have been full of nurses (probably bored) and physicians, psychologists and other healthcare providers. Last summer I was teamed up with an MD/Ph.D (cell biology) who said he and many of his peers were sick and tired of not really being able to help people. Last month, I teamed up with a vascular surgeon. Both these guys were in their 50s so had been in practice a few years. There were other docs present but these were the only ones I actually had a chance to work with. There was also a physics professor there but I only got to speak to her briefly. She did say that she was going to be doing some presentations on how shamanism and physics interact...and possibly a book.

Now I can respect anyone who wants to devour biochem or any of the natural sciences but jeez....also study how the mind affects the body. Once you know this, you...if like me...will almost puke when you glance at a medical textbook!

Just think...you'll really be an independant practitioner and most of your patients/clients will have already seen a physician.

Now, where's my damn rattle and smudge stick😀

Am I bored...are you kidding?

All due respect, it's not my cup of eye of newt, tongue of bat.

 

[Tired]

don't know what year you are in, or how old you are . . .

I'm 28, and a graduating MSIV.

but where do you think all these menopausal flower children went to after the acid trip wore off ?

I'm not sure, but I guess now I know where all the embittered former military PAs ended up.

 

[deleted6669]

"I'm not sure, but I guess now I know where all the embittered former military PAs ended up."

excuse me...is alpha a pa? I kind of doubt it...., he is( I just checked his profile).
oh crap...just when I thought we were starting to get a little respect around here......sigh.....

 

[Tired]

excuse me...is alpha a pa? I kind of doubt it...., he is( I just checked his profile).
oh crap...just when I thought we were starting to get a little respect around here......sigh.....

Yeah, he is. But don't get me wrong, no disrespect to the PAs, you know I'm down for you guys. I was just taking a stab at the troll.

 

[RAMPA]

Back on subject:

My experiences and observations mirror others on this forum that the amount of nursing theory papers was way out of proportion to the value gained, and at the expense of medical science and clinical education.

My wife has similar experiences as Fab4fan: she likes nursing but has reached her limit and is bored in ICU. She is ready to do more and hated the thought of all of the NP theory classes or nursing mgmt -- been there, done that, hated it. She found the PA route had the most options.

I hope - but doubt - NPs and PAs can move closer rather than further apart in their training, because they basically do the same thing. Also, RNs have the best medical experience as a foundation to become mid-levels, but NP education in many programs isn't up to snuff.

u just dissed the Paramedics and Respiratory Therapists....

 

[deleted6669]

u just dissed the Paramedics and Respiratory Therapists....

agree- but I don't think it was intentional.
my biased opinion is that paramedics make the best pa's. we are taught to think independently and manage situations with minimum input from others.the science background of an a.s. level paramedic is essentially the same as that of an a.s. level rn.
while rt's and rn's do this(independent practice) to some extent they need orders for most common tasks medics can do by standing order, rt's less so than rn's. an rn's job is basically to implement providers orders. while there are lots of smart rn's who anticipate pts needs and are proactive there are also rn's who don't do squat without an order.
the top 3 grads in my pa class were all paramedics( I was #2). an rn was #4. every member of the top ten was a medic/rn/rt.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Hi all,
I've gone back and forth between being a physician, an NP, or a psychologist. In my looking through these forums, I've noticed a major negative view of NPs, and I wonder why. I looked at being an NP instead of a PA because I am also interested in teaching nursing students and working at a clinic for the underserved. I also would like to take some time off to get experience, because I don't have any experience yet in the medical field, and I thought nursing for a few years would be a good way to do that. If I became a midlevel I would want doctor supervision, in the clinic where I work, all the time, with the possibility of collaboration. I care for people and want to practice medicine- or advanced practice nursing, if it makes you happy- and I'd also like to go into management or even case work, all of which are available in nursing. I love the breadth and the opportunities in this field and I have no interest in surgery. Given my situation, I think I would rather pursue nursing than be a PA, but it seems that everyone on SDN has a mad hate for NPs because they aren't trained on the "medical model". I would find this to be problematic only if outcomes were worse for patients treated by PAs...I don't believe this is the case. The only reason I can think of is that NPs are able to practice independently and even own clinics, something that PAs cannot do- are MDs/DOs simply threatened by NPs? I don't think there is any replacement for a doctor, and even if I pursued a DNP for my own satisfaction, I would see myself as a midlevel provider.
What gives?

Greetings,

I dont know where you get your information but I dont think many of the medical community hates NPs at all; in fact from most of my externships with PCPs, theyve always indicated proper etiquette towards their fellow NP or DNP fellows.

 

[fab4fan]

agree- but I don't think it was intentional.
my biased opinion is that paramedics make the best pa's. we are taught to think independently and manage situations with minimum input from others.the science background of an a.s. level paramedic is essentially the same as that of an a.s. level rn.
while rt's and rn's do this(independent practice) to some extent they need orders for most common tasks medics can do by standing order, rt's less so than rn's. an rn's job is basically to implement providers orders. while there are lots of smart rn's who anticipate pts needs and are proactive there are also rn's who don't do squat without an order.
the top 3 grads in my pa class were all paramedics( I was #2). an rn was #4. every member of the top ten was a medic/rn/rt.

Excuse me for being sarastic but, well duh! That would be because RNs are not licensed to do things without orders. I mean, let's play fair here.

I had a pt. come back from the OR today who was having rigors. Sure, I knew within 99.99% certainty what was appropriate for that, but I still had to jump through the technical hoop of getting an order because my license demands I do. So don't try and act like I'm some sort of slacker because I didn't respond "proactively."

Cripes. If I had, I would have been one of those nurses who "doesn't know her place."

 

[fab4fan]

And it all depends on the provider, too. When I work in the ED, if it's with a provider I know will have my back, yeah, I will go ahead and draw labs, get XRs, start IVs, etc. If it's with a problem provider, though, no way, it's straight by the book...you see the pt first, write the orders, then I'll get what you want.

 

[zenman]

I used to work ED and many of us would get this comment from the chief trauma resident, "Would you guys quit packaging up my patients so my interns can learn something!"😀

 

[DogFaceMedic]

agree- but I don't think it was intentional.
my biased opinion is that paramedics make the best pa's. we are taught to think independently and manage situations with minimum input from others.the science background of an a.s. level paramedic is essentially the same as that of an a.s. level rn.
while rt's and rn's do this(independent practice) to some extent they need orders for most common tasks medics can do by standing order, rt's less so than rn's. an rn's job is basically to implement providers orders. while there are lots of smart rn's who anticipate pts needs and are proactive there are also rn's who don't do squat without an order.
the top 3 grads in my pa class were all paramedics( I was #2). an rn was #4. every member of the top ten was a medic/rn/rt.

Attractive CCRN ICU RNs make the best PAs.🙂

 

[alpha62]

yeah, I'm a PA.

you " getting respect " ? A couple of years ago I learned the difference between " respect " vs condesention and exploitation.

Hint: it's about $75,000 per year or 18 months in Iraq, or sometimes both.

just because I don't drink the cool aid, doesn't make me the evil one. take a "stab" at somebody with a little less mileage.

Yeah, he is. But don't get me wrong, no disrespect to the PAs, you know I'm down for you guys. I was just taking a stab at the troll.

 

[alpha62]

I'm not sure, but I guess now I know where all the embittered former military PAs ended up.

what me Bitter ? 😉 Keep lurking in the Military thread... the level of demoralization there makes me look like Dale Carnegie

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

I'm sitting here on call trying to entertain myself here on SDN. This thread seems to have gotten way off topic much like all other threads on SDN. My take on FPs: They are great for what they do. I work with them and am mostly pleased with their work.

Now, as far as physicians being overeducated (who needs Chem, micro, etc), that's just rediculous. The poster surely couldn't be serious. I think that really shows the difference between physicians and "midlevels". Medicine is a science. Much of what we practice based on these principles.

I was a nurse for 6 years before going to medical school. I remember taking my prerecs thinking that much of it was a waste of time. Well, the prerecs are just a preview of what you get in medical school. In medical school you start out learning anatomy, molecular/cellular biology, genetics, micro, etc. You then broaden that into learning the body systems and how these "basic" sciences pertain to them. By the end of your second year of medical school you know how to treat a disease and the reason the treatment works down to the MOLECULAR level. It is just mindblowing how much information you learn in those 2 years. (and how quickly you have to learn it. We covered almost a full college semester of biochem in just 4 days of medical school) Then you go on the wards and learn how to apply the information that has been given to you. Then you go on to residency for 3-8+ years hone in the skills for your specialty. Is this the equivalent of an NP program where you write countless papers on Nursing theory? Riiiiiight.

Physicians are taught to think in scientific terms. I remember having a NP student rotating with us on wards when I was in medical school. She couldn't participate in our discussions about the patients in any meaningful way because she had no idea what we were talking about. (all of that unnecessary science and whatnot🙂 )

As far as the FPs: Sure lots of them refer but they know WAY more than you seem to understand. Being a physician, you treat mostly "bread and butter" cases: UTIs, Colds, etc. But the physician is paid to catch the zebras which many times if caught early means the difference between a treatable disease and a terminal disease. How can you catch zebras if you have no idea what they are, how they present, the variations on a presentation, the natural progression of the disease, the available treatments, the prognosis, etc?

Well, you guys have fun debating on if "midlevels" are equipt to function as physicians. From being a nurse and having lots of friends in the NP programs (I know the cirriculum quite well) I can honestly say you have no idea how much you just do not understand about medicine. If you would like to be an independant provider perhaps you should look into going to medical school so you can have the proper knowledge base. That's exactly what I did and I can't tell you how happy I am that I went back. At our medical school in just about every other class there is either a PA or NP who decided to go to medical school for a proper education. I've even met a few CRNAs who went back for the MD. If you've got the time and the intelligence to make it I would strongly suggest doing it. It will be the best decision of your life!!!!!!!!

Burntcrispy, MD

Why do I read this threads? Sigh. I'm really getting sick of asking questions in my nursing classes and the teachers go "duh, I don't know". They don't say "hey, that's a great question that I don't know the answer to, but I'll let you know tomorrow" response that I got from all of my old pre-med instructors.


Sigh.

 

[fab4fan]

Why do I read this threads? Sigh. I'm really getting sick of asking questions in my nursing classes and the teachers go "duh, I don't know". They don't say "hey, that's a great question that I don't know the answer to, but I'll let you know tomorrow" response that I got from all of my old pre-med instructors.


Sigh.

Duh...maybe you should find a better nursing program. Just a thought.

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

Duh...maybe you should find a better nursing program.

Just a thought.

Great idea considering I getting paid to go to this one...and the year-long program is almost over.

I would entertain the idea that there are many better programs out there but when I take the ATI tests cold and score in the top 95th percentile nationally, it doesn't seem like there is much point. Plus how do you go about finding a nursing problem that has sufficient depth? Ask the teachers? Students? How would you possibly get an honest, accurate answer?

It seems like some of the programs I've looked into attempt to counter the superficial glossing-over of material by giving a ridiculous amount of paperwork [careplans by hand instead of using Ackley online] or wording questions in a bizarre manner that is a radical depature from normal syntax.


Or maybe I'm just being a negative Nancy because I'm annoyed with OB.


Edit - I should mention that I have had some excellent instructors and clinical faculty. Lately, however, I've had a few instructors that don't know the answer to questions. In fact, they don't even seem bothered by their lack of understanding of the topic they are lecturing on. I was told by a pharm teacher that the level of question I was asking isn't clinically relevant to the average day-to-day practice of nursing, which I understood. But when an instructor can't field anything beyond the most basic question about a topic they are teaching, then there is a problem.

 

[fab4fan]

Great idea considering I getting paid to go to this one...and the year-long program is almost over.

I would entertain the idea that there are many better programs out there but when I take the ATI tests cold and score in the top 95th percentile nationally, it doesn't seem like there is much point. Plus how do you go about finding a nursing problem that has sufficient depth? Ask the teachers? Students? How would you possibly get an honest, accurate answer?

It seems like some of the programs I've looked into attempt to counter the superficial glossing-over of material by giving a ridiculous amount of paperwork [careplans by hand instead of using Ackley online] or wording questions in a bizarre manner that is a radical depature from normal syntax.


Or maybe I'm just being a negative Nancy because I'm annoyed with OB.

So basically what it boils down to is you are just so superior that going to school is just a formality for you; there's really not much of anything for you to learn from your professors/instructors.

Sorry to sound cynical, but I would be willing to bet that your attitude has a lot to do with why your faculty shows little to no interest in teaching you. I'm sure you have already tried to dazzle them with your previous status as a former med-student. Believe me, they've heard that before, and they're not impressed. If you act like whatever they have to say is just beneath your vast intellect, why should they go out of their way for you? Besides, most of them probably see you as a the classroom equivalent of a troll.

FWIW, and don't take this personally, I really don't want to work with nurses who are soooooo bored and just going through the motions of getting through a program because they are getting paid to do so. If that is someone's only motivation for learning, that's not the person I want to have my back in a crisis. Why are you even going into nursing? From what you post here and at allnurses.com, it seems like nursing is the last thing you want to be doing. If I were more motivated, I'd post links to support this; maybe later.

If you're not challenged in your program but find it impossible to switch to another, there's still the good old-fashioned method of independent study. All learning doesn't have to happen according to the course outline.

People who feel the need to boast about scores, percentiles, yada, yada, yada...great. The proof is in the pudding; let's see you in action. I hate to break it to you, but your GPA isn't going to be on your name badge.

All professions have their ridiculous exercises in paperwork, and nursing is no exception. Careplans are a perfect example.

Oh, I hated OB too.

 

[alpha62]

Ok, I'm sure somebody will find offense to this.
The bitter truth has somehow become a four letter word these days.

Two words... Walter Reed.

It wasn't moldy buildings, no computers in the barracks. Yeah, I still call them barracks, nurses call them " dorms "

It wasn't even the money. There is an open ended budget for medical support in every operation I've been in on.

It really wasn't even G.W. or Rummy's fault ( this time ) 😡

It was the Nurses fault. The whole freaking Army Nurse Corps fault. Once a nurse becomes a Major they get sent off on extended course of duty that removes he or she from working for doctors. She becomes a "clip board nurse" This is of course, after millons of taxpayers dollars are spent sending them to " leadership programs " Nurse midwife, Anesthesia, and of course , Nurse Practioner.

I'll try to keep this very brief, for the sake of the oblivious civilian populace out there.

At the start of the war, before the first shot was even fired. The reserves were called up from every swamp, rust belt, and uninsured poverty pocket in this country including Guam, Puerto Rico, and every piece of real estate we've picked up in the last 200 years.

I'll give you a "troop surge" When this call up occured over 17,000 soldiers were immediately placed on medical hold due to mostly disease of neglect, aging, and life style... you know F.P. stuff you make your living off of.

I tried to send as many of them as I could, back home. They weren't fit to fight and some medic or doctor, not an N.P. (they don't do combat) would have been shot out of the sky in Iraq evacuating a diabetic, MI, COPD, ect. Nice thing to put on your posthumous purple heart citation. " Cpt Smith made the ultimate sacriface attempting to evacuate a 300 lb diabetic after he collapsed in the desert line at the mess hall "

I was blocked on my attempts to reject them from service. Who blocked me, nurses or " patient advocates " as they like to think of themselves. Since the nurses blocked me and many other medical officers, 17,000 people sat on active duty getting paid for nothing, many of them were uninsured in their civilian jobs, so the taxpayers ate the cost of the hysterectomy, the gall bladder, ect. not the employers

I can only guess this is what happened at Walter Reed. It's been happening since Clinton. The bulk of these soldiers are fighting discharge. This makes it a very crowded situation for the battlefield wounded to get care.

Nurses did this, nurses with some rank. Doctors are also to blame. You guys stood by and let it happen. You gave up your power to this crew. You were so busy trying to get your ticket punched and knock out the residency or the fellowship and get out. You didn't have the gonads to confront or deal with these Nurses and the convoluted thinking process they harbor, they just took over because you were just " too professional " to make a scene or hurt somebody's "feelings" .

When I was in training, I used to live in Fear of the Surgeon or the attending. You got your wish, he lives in fear of you now. He can't afford to call you on your BS.

I suggest you shut this thread down. You ask a question, but find the answer distastefull. Like the man said... You need me on that wall, You want me on that wall....Well.... you know the rest.

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

So basically what it boils down to is you are just so superior that going to school is just a formality for you; there's really not much of anything for you to learn from your professors/instructors.

Sorry to sound cynical, but I would be willing to bet that your attitude has a lot to do with why your faculty shows little to no interest in teaching you. I'm sure you have already tried to dazzle them with your previous status as a former med-student. Believe me, they've heard that before, and they're not impressed. If you act like whatever they have to say is just beneath your vast intellect, why should they go out of their way for you? Besides, most of them probably see you as a the classroom equivalent of a troll.

FWIW, and don't take this personally, I really don't want to work with nurses who are soooooo bored and just going through the motions of getting through a program because they are getting paid to do so. If that is someone's only motivation for learning, that's not the person I want to have my back in a crisis. Why are you even going into nursing? From what you post here and at allnurses.com, it seems like nursing is the last thing you want to be doing. If I were more motivated, I'd post links to support this; maybe later.

If you're not challenged in your program but find it impossible to switch to another, there's still the good old-fashioned method of independent study. All learning doesn't have to happen according to the course outline.

People who feel the need to boast about scores, percentiles, yada, yada, yada...great. The proof is in the pudding; let's see you in action. I hate to break it to you, but your GPA isn't going to be on your name badge.

All professions have their ridiculous exercises in paperwork, and nursing is no exception. Careplans are a perfect example.

Oh, I hated OB too.

Actually this is probably the best response I've ever received from a nurse on either sites. Most of the time, posters tip toe back and forth trying not to get anyone's aura in a bunch [ed - yes I'm an acupuncturist but I don't believe in auras].

I'm very polite to almost all of the faculty because I realize that sometimes a horrible didactic instructor is the best clinical instructor. But all chest thumping aside, the level at which information is presented is the main gripe I have and it seems endemic to nursing education as a whole. It makes sense to not go into too much depth because the end result would be a nurse would have to learn the medical aspect AND the nursing interventions / care. That is my chief complaint. I would rather know the medical side and I'm not seeing it in nursing education [uh, duh].

Nursing has taught me quite a bit. Despite what those around me in the real world might believe, real patient interaction is outside of my comfort zone and I've learned so much in this area. On the floor, oftentimes I feel sad that many of the physicians miss out in this area and never get beyond exchanging pleasantries. But as satisfying as this is, I want more.

But hey, I have embarked down this path so I am going to see how it works out. I still plan on starting FNP school and I want to focus on pain management - not Interventional Pain Management, which is completely out of the scope of a midlevel, but acupuncture + point injections + the information to rule out other causes or make a referral (under the supervision / collaboration with a physician).

Once again, thanks for your honest, blunt answer.

 

[alpha62]

This whole debate, like a lot of other debates reminds me of many pts that come to my office over the years.

They're not actually interested in doing something about their problems, they just want to spend the office visit crying about their problems and having a captive audiance to enrich the process.

Whining to your hairdresser just doesn't get it. In order for the whole whining process to be satisfying, you have to corner somebody that has the most social stature you can muster. That makes your little crisis seem more important.

 

[fab4fan]

Actually Josh, I do have to give a shout out to acupuncture. I got hit with a killer migraine at work. One of the anesthesiologists asked me if I'd be willing to give it a try. At that point I was willing to try just about anything. It did help, although I felt briefly very nauseated when he was manipulating the needles. I'd be willing to try it again. 🙂

 

[deleted87716]

I suggest you shut this thread down.

I suggest you should just stop reading it if it bothers you that much.

This was a borderline thread from the beginning, and it's wandered all over the place. Closing it for being off-topic at this point would be pretty silly. Just keep it civil.

 

[Tired]

Ok, I'm sure somebody will find offense to this.
The bitter truth has somehow become a four letter word these days.

Two words... Walter Reed.

Oh my God, someone escaped from the milmed forum! Quick, grab the torches and pitchforks, and drive him back into the cave!

 

[alpha62]

Oh my God, someone escaped from the milmed forum! Quick, grab the torches and pitchforks, and drive him back into the cave!

Haven't you been watching Geico commericals ? Even cavemen are getting in touch with their inner child these days.

don't hate the military too much. The draft is comming, and you'll be at the top of the callup list commrade. I've done my time

 

[Tired]

don't hate the military too much. The draft is comming, and you'll be at the top of the callup list commrade. I've done my time

Too late, I'm Navy HPSP. Active duty starts in 29 days and counting . . .

And for the record, I'm pretty stoked about it. Hence my tongue-in-cheek comment about negative posters from the milmed forum. 😀 But seriously, thank you for serving your time.

 

[alpha62]

fair enough. good luck. 👍

Too late, I'm Navy HPSP. Active duty starts in 29 days and counting . . .

And for the record, I'm pretty stoked about it. Hence my tongue-in-cheek comment about negative posters from the milmed forum. 😀 But seriously, thank you for serving your time.

 

[RAMPA]

agree- but I don't think it was intentional.
my biased opinion is that paramedics make the best pa's. we are taught to think independently and manage situations with minimum input from others.the science background of an a.s. level paramedic is essentially the same as that of an a.s. level rn.
while rt's and rn's do this(independent practice) to some extent they need orders for most common tasks medics can do by standing order, rt's less so than rn's. an rn's job is basically to implement providers orders. while there are lots of smart rn's who anticipate pts needs and are proactive there are also rn's who don't do squat without an order.
the top 3 grads in my pa class were all paramedics( I was #2). an rn was #4. every member of the top ten was a medic/rn/rt.

thats why im gonna work somewhere that uses protocols for RCPs. 😀

 

[PhysioMan]

Protocols won't change the fact that the ones in the know will do the best. Competency-based decision making will always trump the otherwise uninitiated...

 

[RAMPA]

Protocols won't change the fact that the ones in the know will do the best. Competency-based decision making will always trump the otherwise uninitiated...

i am the best.

 

[PhysioMan]

No doubt you will be a good vent jockey...and then PA, right?