high GPA vs high DAT???

[iPara]

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just wanna know what most of us are thinking...between a high GPA (3.8-4.0) but avg DAT (<20) and an avg/below avg GPA (<3.5) but high DAT (>20)...which category do you think has a better chance of getting into dental school? I feel that the person with the high GPA should have a better chance because it reflects consistent academic performance...and it takes a lot of commitment to maintain that level of GPA! On the other end, I respect those with super high DAT scores because obviously you HAVE to know what you're doing in order to ace the DAT...What are you thoughts on this???

ps: please forgive me if my categories of GPA and DAT scores do not reflect the actual high/avg/low categories...I don't have the stats...

 

[armorshell]

For many schools, it's all about the DAT. Performing in dental school is all about tests, tests and tests; They want to know you can do that.

Also, the DAT is a standardized test that lets adcoms fairly compare you to everyone else; GPA can't do that.

 

[INFNITE]

depends on the school. high DAT will get you in Columbia and high GPA will get you in UPenn.

 

[DentalBoarder]

just wanna know what most of us are thinking...between a high GPA (3.8-4.0) but avg DAT (<20) and an avg/below avg GPA (<3.5) but high DAT (>20)...which category do you think has a better chance of getting into dental school? I feel that the person with the high GPA should have a better chance because it reflects consistent academic performance...and it takes a lot of commitment to maintain that level of GPA! On the other end, I respect those with super high DAT scores because obviously you HAVE to know what you're doing in order to ace the DAT...What are you thoughts on this???

ps: please forgive me if my categories of GPA and DAT scores do not reflect the actual high/avg/low categories...I don't have the stats...

i've read that certain DAT scores (RC, OCHEM, BIO, QR) are good board predictors. anyway, i think in terms of admissions, it's really case by case.

 

[Mask667]

I don't know which ones the ADCOMS prefer, but I would say that a person with a higher GPA should be prefered because they work thier ass off while the a person who gets avg. GPA but aces JUST one test can get in too.

Mask

 

[dddsmack]

I think the GPA can be the wildcard, if you went to a school where A's weren't handed out as much, then your GPA will be low. The DAT is the great equalizer. You either know how to calculate molarity of a solution or complete a SN2 reaction or you don't. Grades don't always tell us that, the DAT did.

There is now way that I can say I know more than you about ochem if I got a 19 an you got a 24.

But we both could have gotten A's in ochem class at different schools.

 

[toothfairy85]

On a test that only covers 30 questions of organic chemistry, the difference between a 19 and a 24 is probably 2 questions (maybe 3)... just food for thought.

 

[54807]

On a test that only covers 30 questions of organic chemistry, the difference between a 19 and a 24 is probably 2 questions (maybe 3)... just food for thought.

Yeah...that's why you have to go hardcore and know everything in the Scope of Test outline. I was real anal and ended up with a 24.

I'm partial to the DAT. There was a correlation between DAT scores and board scores vs. college GPA and board scores. The DAT correlation was EXTREMELY high....something like .96. The GPA was not anywhere near that.

Plus, at my own university my friend gets an A in ochem and I get nothing close to that. I took his final when he got it back and I knew everything on it. Now to compare GPAs at differing institutions is real tough...now add in different majors.

I think the data was in an ADA publication. If someone wants it I can find it again I'm sure.

I've got friends who have near 4.0 but cant break 20 on the DAT.....that's the reason why the DAT exists...to hopefully have some insight into the merit of that 4.0

 

[toothfairy85]

Understandable. There has to be some way to compare applicants, I just don't understand why some schools place so much emphasis on one exam. DAT does show what you have learned and remembered through undergrad, but some people aren't great standardized test takers. (ie: my SAT was 1080). Someone mentioned about how the DAT is a good indicator of performance in dental school, and it is to an extent. However, if dental school is about tests, tests, and more tests, I think the person who has consistently performed well for four years of undergrad with a strong courseload, (ie: high GPA) shows more of what they can handle than one test, the DAT. For me personally , my AA was brought down by QR, and I don't think that makes me any less qualified for dental school.

 

[DDSY]

There are several weaknesses with relying solely on either GPA or DATs:

GPA:
1. Great degree of variability among schools (compare ivy vs. cc--> definitely easier to get 4.0 gpa in cc's)
2. Variability between majors (Ie, science majors more difficult than, say, anthropology, however the reverse could be true in a school)
3. Does not test applicant's ability to integrate large amounts of info (DATs test bio, chem, orgo, etc)-->important predictor of how well applicant will do in dental school, also boards
4. No way to test perceptual ability, unless applicant has taken some type of art class

DAT
1. Only 1 test
2. Smart unmotivated person may score high
3. The luck factor (b/c it's only 1 test)
4. Some people may just have a bad day when they take the DATs

 

[iPara]

On a test that only covers 30 questions of organic chemistry, the difference between a 19 and a 24 is probably 2 questions (maybe 3)... just food for thought.

toothfairy85, are you sure this is right? 😕
if you're...then I would think that luck is an important factor on the DAT...because there are different versions of it!!

 

[DMD to Be]

This is kind of silly. Of course, any one with a really low GPA and a high DAT is going to say, " OH the DAT is the main factor." And those with high GPAs and low DATs is going to say, "OH it's the GPA." Hmmm, I think the GPA carries more weight... Haha...

 

[dddsmack]

There are several weaknesses with relying solely on either GPA or DATs:

GPA:
1. Great degree of variability among schools (compare ivy vs. cc--> definitely easier to get 4.0 gpa in cc's)
2. Variability between majors (Ie, science majors more difficult than, say, anthropology, however the reverse could be true in a school)
3. Does not test applicant's ability to integrate large amounts of info (DATs test bio, chem, orgo, etc)-->important predictor of how well applicant will do in dental school, also boards
4. No way to test perceptual ability, unless applicant has taken some type of art class

DAT
1. Only 1 test
2. Smart unmotivated person may score high
3. The luck factor (b/c it's only 1 test)
4. Some people may just have a bad day when they take the DATs

I guess that is why they use both, I still think a higher DAT will open more doors than a higher GPA.

 

[ejcivicdee]

I guess that is why they use both, I still think a higher DAT will open more doors than a higher GPA.

i think each dental school weigh both gpa and dat 50/50 so it will be based on a point system they do from what I have heard.

 

[DDSY]

I guess that is why they use both, I still think a higher DAT will open more doors than a higher GPA.

Agree. Variability among GPAs is simply too much to ignore. DAT is at least a standardized exam. However, that is my opinion, and I'm no expert. . .

 

[PlanB21]

Everyone has made valid points. I always just look at it like this. Student A is taking 15 credit hours, working to pay bills, studying for the DAT at the same time, and gets a 19AA. Student B is not taking any classes, does not need to pay any bills, studies for the DAT all summer(3 months), and scores a 22AA. Both GPA's are relatively the same, so if you were an Adcom, who would you pick? Personally, I would pick student A.

 

[54807]

Everyone has made valid points. I always just look at it like this. Student A is taking 15 credit hours, working to pay bills, studying for the DAT at the same time, and gets a 19AA. Student B is not taking any classes, does not need to pay any bills, studies for the DAT all summer(3 months), and scores a 22AA. Both GPA's are relatively the same, so if you were an Adcom, who would you pick? Personally, I would pick student A.

Yup, I would too. But I dont see any school bragging about their number of students who paid their way through college.

It's unfortunate, but I think it's the truth. If the 22AA person isn't a bonehead then I bet they'll get a seat over the student with lower academics.

 

[GRAD]

But one more thing to think about is that some study fr the DAT for like 3 weeks, while others study for months or years, who knows. I mean, some people just have more of an opportunity to study than others, eg work etc.

 

[INFNITE]

i think each dental school weigh both gpa and dat 50/50 so it will be based on a point system they do from what I have heard.

false. some schools do that, but not all. I had a 3.3 GPA from an ivy league school majoring in engineering and a 22 DAT. applied to both UPenn and Columbia. UPenn threw out my application without an interview. I was however accpted by Columbia like 2 weeks after my interview because Columbia loves high DAT scores despite average GPA's. That's why Columbia's average GPA is like a 3.4 while DAT is 22~23. Upenn on the other hand is around 3.6 and 20~21 I believe.

 

[in her drawer]

Can't you have your cake and eat it, too?

In all seriousness though, different schools want different things. You can't just make a generalized statement saying one stat is more heavily weighed than the other. Just remember all schools are different. For example, at my Iowa interview they told me the most important thing to them is GPA and the science score of the DAT.

 

[shuna]

I have a prefect GPA but a low DAT... I have 6 interviews so far... so I guess the DAT is not that important.😳

 

[dddsmack]

I have a prefect GPA but a low DAT... I have 6 interviews so far... so I guess the DAT is not that important.😳

I bet your DAT isn't that low, and your gpa doesn't mean as much when you choke on the DAT.

 

[Revelde]

I don't know why many people argue that some people are just 'no good' at standarized tests. what is it supposed to mean? they are smart and capable of doing well in school but just don't do well in DAT's or SATs ?
because they are 'std tests' ? NOOO WAYYY... I think there is no way that a person does well in school and is "smart"/"competitive" BUT does poorly in std tests.
School is all about tests and exams. there are research papers and some extra points for attendance.. but. the main factor that measures your performance is still test in schools.
if anyone got 4.3 GPA in high school/900 in SAT then 4.0 GPA in college and <20 DATs,
there is only one explanation; that person went to a super easy high school and an easy college. period.
there might be very few exceptions. but exceptions are exceptions.

well.,. just a thought 😎

 

[shuna]

I do not agree. I did not go to an easy high school nor college on the SAT I got 1460. On the DAT I did very bad. and yes I do have 4.0. I had a bad day and I dont know what happend. How can you make a conclusion based on one test?

I am sure that if I will retake the DAT I will get much higher. I am not saying that DAT isnt important. It is not any less important than my GPA, however I was very happy to find out that I did get a few interviews even though I did poorly on the DAT.
I dont think that I am exception.

 

[toothfairy85]

iPara... I just read your post. I have a book by Barron's that is supposed to give a fairly good indication of the scaled scores on the DAT vs. # questions missed. I don't remember exactly off hand what they were for each section. If I remember correctly (I may be wrong) but missing one question on ochem or gchem was a 27-28, 2 questions was a 25, 3 questions was around 23-24, 4 questions 21-22, 5 questions 20, 6 questions 19. I wanna say this is about right because I remember using it when I was re-doing Kaplan practice tests and workshops to see what my scores would be around.

Also a note on percentiles, based on what Kaplan tells us on our diagnostic test... typically a 22+ is 92% or higher. So an 18, which is to my understanding still the average score across the board for all applicants being accepted to dental school is around 80%. Seems about right plus or minus a few since majority of the applicants getting in are above average (70th percentile).

 

[armorshell]

I do not agree. I did not go to an easy high school nor college on the SAT I got 1460. On the DAT I did very bad. and yes I do have 4.0. I had a bad day and I dont know what happend. How can you make a conclusion based on one test?

Because, the majority of people are not going to be having a bad day, and if you feel that your DAT score is not representative of you as a candidate, you have the option of retaking.

My point is a GPA does not say it all either: Someone muight go to an especially challenging school, had some incredibly hard circumstances in their life, they may just be a late bloomer as far as grades and school go.

If these candidates can prove their worth by acing the DAT, IMO they are just as likely to succeed in dental school as someone who has gotten a 4.0 for their whole life and got the same DAT score. They might be more successful

 

[fancymylotus]

Because, the majority of people are not going to be having a bad day, and if you feel that your DAT score is not representative of you as a candidate, you have the option of retaking.

My point is a GPA does not say it all either: Someone muight go to an especially challenging school, had some incredibly hard circumstances in their life, they may just be a late bloomer as far as grades and school go.

If these candidates can prove their worth by acing the DAT, IMO they are just as likely to succeed in dental school as someone who has gotten a 4.0 for their whole life and got the same DAT score. They might be more successful

hi mr DAT ace-er😎

 

[shuna]

We are both making the same point. Neither the DAT nor the GPA can stand for itself. You must have both. I don't think one is instead of the other. I will not tell anyone to forget about his grades in college and just ace the DAT or to get a 4.0 and not to do well on the DAT. Both are important and that is the reason that BOTH are being considerate.

The only reason that I choose not to retake the DAT is not because I shouldn't or that I think that its not important, but because my application stands out because of many other reasons. In any other circumstances I will retake the DAT because it is important since it is a standardized test with the purpose of comparing two candidates one to one.

 

[armorshell]

I can agree to that.

 

[Yellow Snow]

But one more thing to think about is that some study fr the DAT for like 3 weeks, while others study for months or years, who knows. I mean, some people just have more of an opportunity to study than others, eg work etc.

When it comes to standardized tests you HAVE to assume that everyone tried their best and that the results represent their ultimate effort. Otherwise there can be no such thing as an aptitude test.

 

[bionerd]

Everyone has made valid points. I always just look at it like this. Student A is taking 15 credit hours, working to pay bills, studying for the DAT at the same time, and gets a 19AA. Student B is not taking any classes, does not need to pay any bills, studies for the DAT all summer(3 months), and scores a 22AA. Both GPA's are relatively the same, so if you were an Adcom, who would you pick? Personally, I would pick student A.

what about somewhere in between? e.g. student C who worked to sorta pay bills and study 4 long months while working and studying and got 22s? will they have a good chance too? 😀