High MCAT/Low GPA vs Low MCAT/High GPA

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Hayley

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Hey guys,

I've come across some feeds where people have posted about their very below average GPAs with their very above average MCAT scores and vice versa. I struggle with the low gpa/high mcat combination because it appears to me that he/she is super smart, but maybe not a hard worker in school? Of course there are tons of confounding factors (jobs, family problems, etc.) so I am by no means judging! I'm just wondering if there is a general consensus on an applicant with the two extremes? I don't have my MCAT score back yet, but I think I may fall under the high gpa/low mcat category, so I'm just wondering! 🙂
 
Hayley said:
Hey guys,

I've come across some feeds where people have posted about their very below average GPAs with their very above average MCAT scores and vice versa. I struggle with the low gpa/high mcat combination because it appears to me that he/she is super smart, but maybe not a hard worker in school? Of course there are tons of confounding factors (jobs, family problems, etc.) so I am by no means judging! I'm just wondering if there is a general consensus on an applicant with the two extremes? I don't have my MCAT score back yet, but I think I may fall under the high gpa/low mcat category, so I'm just wondering! 🙂
Click to expand...

how high is your MCAT? how low is your GPA? and btw, i dont view a 3.4 as a "low" GPA.

if you have a 40/3.1, then you'll have major problems.

if you have a 3.9/25, then you'll have major problems

but if you have something like a 35/3.3 or a 3.8/30, then your chances should increase considerably.

in short, GPA can compensate for MCAT and vice versa. however, neither can be too low

my rule of thumb is that if you have a 3.3-3.4 GPA, then you really do need to aim for a mid 30 on your MCAT.
 
aspiring20 said:
how high is your MCAT? how low is your GPA? and btw, i dont view a 3.4 as a "low" GPA.

if you have a 40/3.1, then you'll have major problems.

if you have a 3.9/25, then you'll have major problems

but if you have something like a 35/3.3 or a 3.8/30, then your chances should increase considerably.

in short, GPA can compensate for MCAT and vice versa. however, neither can be too low

my rule of thumb is that if you have a 3.3-3.4 GPA, then you really do need to aim for a mid 30 on your MCAT.
Click to expand...

False. Don't take this advice op.
 
There are many graphs on SDN that compare GPA/MCAT/acceptance rates. I suggest looking for them.
 
Cambino said:
False. Don't take this advice op.
Click to expand...

remember i said "major problems" not "you can't get into any MD"

and while a 40 MCAT is absolutely incredible, a 3.1 GPA is multiple SDs lower than even the medians of mid-tier schools.

most of my friends with 3.3+ GPAs and mid 30 MCAT scores got in somewhere, but i know a few with 3.3 GPAs and 38+ MCAT (from top 10 universities majoring in hard sciences) who did not receive a single interview with 30+ applications.

i dont know what the OP's GPA is, but he/she has to make sure that it is as high as it can possibly be.

and a 3.1 GPA will give you major obstacles regardless of your MCAT or ECs. notice again that i said "major obstacles" NOT "you have no chance"
 
aspiring20 said:
remember i said "major problems" not "you can't get into any MD"

and while a 40 MCAT is absolutely incredible, a 3.1 GPA is multiple SDs lower than even the medians of mid-tier schools.

most of my friends with 3.3+ GPAs and mid 30 MCAT scores got in somewhere, but i know a few with 3.3 GPAs and 38+ MCAT (from top 10 universities majoring in hard sciences) who did not receive a single interview with 30+ applications.

i dont know what the OP's GPA is, but he/she has to make sure that it is as high as it can possibly be.

and a 3.1 GPA will give you major obstacles regardless of your MCAT or ECs. notice again that i said "major obstacles" NOT "you have no chance"
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I have a 3.98c and 3.96s. I just saw a 40/3.1 earlier today and it kinda made me frustrated because I don't see how a med school could turn down a 40.. but I worked my butt off for 3 years for my GPA (instead of 3 months for a good mcat score) and I'd hate to be penalized for not being a good standardized test taker. All in all, I don't have my MCAT score until the end of the month, I was just wondering if anyone had any opinions on the matter! 😀
 
aspiring20 said:
interesting...

are you saying that the difference between a 35 and a 40 is bigger than the difference between a 3.1 and 3.3?
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I don't think so. I think the reasoning would be that the 40 has a bit of a shock factor to it that may get a manual review of the application looking for why the GPA may be so low whereas a 3.3/35 may get over looked.
 
DAPI said:
I don't think so. I think the reasoning would be that the 40 has a bit of a shock factor to it that may get a manual review of the application looking for why the GPA may be so low whereas a 3.3/35 may get over looked.
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good point with the "shock factor"

but will a 3.3/35 really be overlooked/weeded up by the computer? while far from ideal, i think a 3.3/35 should be more than enough to both protect you from auto-screens and to get you to be interview stage. i am talking about low/mid tier schools, of course.
 
aspiring20 said:
good point with the "shock factor"

but will a 3.3/35 really be overlooked/weeded up by the computer? while far from ideal, i think a 3.3/35 should be more than enough to both protect you from auto-screens and to get you to be interview stage. i am talking about low/mid tier schools, of course.
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A computer will not weed it out, but I think when that applicant reaches the human hands, they will get lumped in with the people with ~3.5/33 stats. At that point who are you going to take if it all comes down to stats (everything else equal). It's probably going to be the 3.5/33 as they had good, not great, but good grades over four year or maybe an upward trend or something and a very good MCAT.

Schools aren't directly comparing people that have say a 4.0/38 and 3.7/32. They are likely competing for different seats essentially and you have to consider where that 3.3/35 applicant is going to be lumped, vs where the 3.1/40 applicant is going to be lumped... I would suspect the 3.1/40 applicant doesn't get lumped into any group and basically gets a stand alone review or maybe against one or two other outliers.
 
So I think it's pretty much established that a higher gpa can get away with a lower mcat and a lower mcat can get away with a higher gpa TO SOME EXTENT. At what point should a 4.0 student consider an MCAT retake? Sub 30? 29? 28? I'm talking state MD schools, lower-tier, etc.
 
Hayley said:
So I think it's pretty much established that a higher gpa can get away with a lower mcat and a lower mcat can get away with a higher gpa TO SOME EXTENT. At what point should a 4.0 student consider an MCAT retake? Sub 30? 29? 28? I'm talking state MD schools, lower-tier, etc.
Click to expand...

It's going to depend on the state, but with a 4.0, you should be able to pull off a balanced 30. A 28 will get you in in Texas (probably some other states too), but with today's competition, a 29 is probably the bare minimum if you want to play it safe.

Edit: Use the chart I linked to above if you really want to know your chances
 
You'll see this debate on here a lot so utilize the search function.

Regardless, here is my take:

When I got into college I was really surprised at the weight of the MCAT. I spent a lot of time keeping my GPA high until the difference between a 3.6 and a 3.9 could be made up by getting a couple more questions right on the MCAT. Why is this so? The MCAT is the SINGLE most important COMPARATIVE tool adcoms use when assessing the academic POTENTIAL of students. This is because, as I'm sure you realize, GPAs are relative.

Generally:

MCAT:

**Note, tiers is arbitrary, my definition is:

Top 30 research US News-Tier 1
Top 40-80: mid-tier
Any of the rest: low tier


24-26: Will keep you out of American MD schools. I'm sure acceptances aren't unheard of so feel feel to gamble.

27-29: Will not knock you out of the running but will signicantly hurt you. See 27-29 MCAT forum for evidence of this. Apply to all low tiers and maybe a mid-tier or two as a reach. Also, make sure you apply DO as well.

30-32: Decent score, 32's the national median for ACCEPTED students. Apply to low tier and mid tier MDs. Also, apply to state high tiers. Apply to maybe one DO just in case especially if the GPA is low.

33-35: Excellent score. 34+ and you're in the top 10% of all test takers. Apply to state and OOS mid-tier schools, some low tiers as safeties. State low tiers should be your ultimate safety. Apply to in state higher tiers if applicable and maybe an out of state high tier as a reach.. Only apply DO if you're c/sGPA is lower than 3.5.

36+: From here on out the issue becomes getting more questions 1-2 right per point. Apply to any school in the US you want. If your GPA is below 3.4 apply to some DOs just in case.

40+: You literally go up a point if you were change an additional question. Apply to any school in the US you want. If your GPA is below 3.4 apply to some DOs just in case.


See how I used MCAT? I used that instead of GPA to tell people what schools to apply to. This should make an impression on how important it is to get a good score!


Now, what about GPA?

Now let's talk about GPA importance. Students who had 27-29 on their MCATs has a low 40% chance of getting into medical school if their GPA was 3.4-3.59. Now if they had a 3.8-4.0 GPA that chance increased to a mid-60% chance. See, in contrast to the MCAT which is the best "inter-student" indicator of academic POTENTIAL, the GPA is a "intra-student indicator of how HARD-WORKING a student is". Therefore, if you got your heartbroken with a 27-29 MCAT, if you have a 3.9 GPA then I would say you have a chance. Therefore, the high GPA will let universities know you have the heart and work ethic and will be forgiving if they like you but it they won't compare it so other people's GPAs.
 
DAPI said:
It's going to depend on the state, but with a 4.0, you should be able to pull off a balanced 30. A 28 will get you in in Texas (probably some other states too), but with today's competition, a 29 is probably the bare minimum if you want to play it safe.

Edit: Use the chart I linked to above if you really want to know your chances
Click to expand...

Thanks for the charts 🙂 I'm just counting down the days until my mcat score is released. I think this interim month may be worse than the month leading up to the test! hahahahah…. but seriously. And I live in a very fortunate state, medical school wise :naughty:
 
Hayley said:
Thanks for the charts 🙂 I'm just counting down the days until my mcat score is released. I think this interim month may be worse than the month leading up to the test! hahahahah…. but seriously. And I live in a very fortunate state, medical school wise :naughty:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I feel like Florida is probably right there with Texas when it comes to applying to medical school.
 
DAPI said:
Yeah, I feel like Florida is probably right there with Texas when it comes to applying to medical school.
Click to expand...

Definitely! I spent my summer in Houston doing a summer program and I loved it! I just wish the public schools took more OOS students :/ but I'm content with my FL schools. I'm a proud Knight 👍 🙂
 
Last edited:
SuperDhooper19 said:
You'll see this debate on here a lot so utilize the search function.

Regardless, here is my take:

When I got into college I was really surprised at the weight of the MCAT. I spent a lot of time keeping my GPA high until the difference between a 3.6 and a 3.9 could be made up by getting a couple more questions right on the MCAT. Why is this so? The MCAT is the SINGLE most important COMPARATIVE tool adcoms use when assessing the academic POTENTIAL of students. This is because, as I'm sure you realize, GPAs are relative.

Generally:

MCAT:

**Note, tiers is arbitrary, my definition is:

Top 30 research US News-Tier 1
Top 40-80: mid-tier
Any of the rest: low tier


24-26: Will keep you out of American MD schools. I'm sure acceptances aren't unheard of so feel feel to gamble.

27-29: Will not knock you out of the running but will signicantly hurt you. See 27-29 MCAT forum for evidence of this. Apply to all low tiers and maybe a mid-tier or two as a reach. Also, make sure you apply DO as well.

30-32: Decent score, 32's the national median for ACCEPTED students. Apply to low tier and mid tier MDs. Also, apply to state high tiers. Apply to maybe one DO just in case especially if the GPA is low.

33-35: Excellent score. 34+ and you're in the top 10% of all test takers. Apply to state and OOS mid-tier schools, some low tiers as safeties. State low tiers should be your ultimate safety. Apply to in state higher tiers if applicable and maybe an out of state high tier as a reach.. Only apply DO if you're c/sGPA is lower than 3.5.

36+: From here on out the issue becomes getting more questions 1-2 right per point. Apply to any school in the US you want. If your GPA is below 3.4 apply to some DOs just in case.

40+: You literally go up a point if you were change an additional question. Apply to any school in the US you want. If your GPA is below 3.4 apply to some DOs just in case.


See how I used MCAT? I used that instead of GPA to tell people what schools to apply to. This should make an impression on how important it is to get a good score!


Now, what about GPA?

Now let's talk about GPA importance. Students who had 27-29 on their MCATs has a low 40% chance of getting into medical school if their GPA was 3.4-3.59. Now if they had a 3.8-4.0 GPA that chance increased to a mid-60% chance. See, in contrast to the MCAT which is the best "inter-student" indicator of academic POTENTIAL, the GPA is a "intra-student indicator of how HARD-WORKING a student is". Therefore, if you got your heartbroken with a 27-29 MCAT, if you have a 3.9 GPA then I would say you have a chance. Therefore, the high GPA will let universities know you have the heart and work ethic and will be forgiving if they like you but it they won't compare it so other people's GPAs.
Click to expand...

I definitely see where you're coming from with this and I thank you for your time!
 
As stated above, MCATs are generally of more weight than GPA. An applicant with a high GPA and a mid to below-mid MCAT shouldn't be favored over the applicant with higher MCAT score and lower GPA. While GPAs are completely arbritary depending on school (state vs. Ivy, etc.) the MCAT is a normalizer and will correctly assess how you stand relative to your peers who take this standardized test.
 
thealainwin said:
As stated above, MCATs are generally of more weight than GPA. An applicant with a high GPA and a mid to below-mid MCAT shouldn't be favored over the applicant with higher MCAT score and lower GPA. While GPAs are completely arbritary depending on school (state vs. Ivy, etc.) the MCAT is a normalizer and will correctly assess how you stand relative to your peers who take this standardized test.
Click to expand...

Yep! I definitely see that. But I think I'd rather have the hard working and mentally invested doctor over a naturally brilliant one with a lacking dedication and work ethic. Just my opinion!
 
I think its fair to say that some schools like students with higher MCAT scores, and other schools like higher GPAs. They are both extremely important. I don't really think one is more important than the other but that is just my opinion!
 
aspiring20 said:
how high is your MCAT? how low is your GPA? and btw, i dont view a 3.4 as a "low" GPA.

if you have a 40/3.1, then you'll have major problems.

if you have a 3.9/25, then you'll have major problems

but if you have something like a 35/3.3 or a 3.8/30, then your chances should increase considerably.

in short, GPA can compensate for MCAT and vice versa. however, neither can be too low

my rule of thumb is that if you have a 3.3-3.4 GPA, then you really do need to aim for a mid 30 on your MCAT.
Click to expand...


good post.

pretty much answered this thread

everyone still(at the end of the day) has to remember that becoming a physician is like a marathon not a race and they want us to do well in both areas...

a VERY high GPA and low MCAT may show the med schools that either you didn't fully understand the classes/education, took easy professors/courses, or ....just bombed it on a bad day (which is fine if you retake it)


*ALSO, "pre med track" (Bio/Chem/etc) is perhaps the HARDEST degree plan, med schools want your GPA to be as high as possible but you don't have to be "perfect" as no doctor is perfect, but can you survive the long, endurable race and finish well?? That's what they want


I'd say 3.5GPA 32+MCAT is a good standard for acceptance, but you should always strive for the best regardless
 
This is something that I think about a lot. I have a high GPA, and while I'm still in the first month of MCAT studying, I'm fairly certain I'll get a mediocre score. It's definitely a source of frustration for me, especially because I feel like I'm at a greater disadvantage for the MCAT than grades due to a nonexistent science background before college. In classes, I can work hard to learn the material and erase the gap between me and kids who have been researching since they were 15 and took 5 AP science classes every year. But the MCAT seems to test not just material, but an ability to quickly read and interpret novel scientific experiments -- which, in my opinion, is a skill built on familiarity with science. Being as I have only studied science for two years, I feel like I haven't quite built up that intuition yet. So that's frustrating :/ I'm not sure how to expedite that process, as I think it'll just come with time, but I definitely think my grades are more of an indication of my merit as a student due to the fact that they aren't testing my skill in something I haven't yet developed.

I do understand the MCAT equalising argument, though. I don't think the system can or even should be changed, due to college variability making grades an inaccurate evaluatory measure. Still, I feel disheartened by the process and just hope I won't be penalised too harshly when I apply next year.
 
High MCAT/Low GPA is fine only if you went to a school notorious for grade deflation or really tough science classes (WashU, Princeton, MIT, Harvey Mudd, etc.)
If you had a low GPA at an average school, then you may be considered lazy or a slacker.
 
sunflower18 said:
This is something that I think about a lot. I have a high GPA, and while I'm still in the first month of MCAT studying, I'm fairly certain I'll get a mediocre score. It's definitely a source of frustration for me, especially because I feel like I'm at a greater disadvantage for the MCAT than grades due to a nonexistent science background before college. In classes, I can work hard to learn the material and erase the gap between me and kids who have been researching since they were 15 and took 5 AP science classes every year. But the MCAT seems to test not just material, but an ability to quickly read and interpret novel scientific experiments -- which, in my opinion, is a skill built on familiarity with science. Being as I have only studied science for two years, I feel like I haven't quite built up that intuition yet. So that's frustrating :/ I'm not sure how to expedite that process, as I think it'll just come with time, but I definitely think my grades are more of an indication of my merit as a student due to the fact that they aren't testing my skill in something I haven't yet developed.

I do understand the MCAT equalising argument, though. I don't think the system can or even should be changed, due to college variability making grades an inaccurate evaluatory measure. Still, I feel disheartened by the process and just hope I won't be penalised too harshly when I apply next year.
Click to expand...

I can understand your worries, but do not worry...

When studying for your MCAT, i wouldn't consider it as "studying" as much as living it... becoming a physician is an incredible life achievement, but it is a life of continuing education as well.

Eventually it will come to you, you just have to keep in mind that it is a long marathon and not a sprint.

Also, keep in mind they DO average both MCAT and GPA when considering admission... here in TX i believe the average is 68
 
aspiring20 said:
remember i said "major problems" not "you can't get into any MD"

and while a 40 MCAT is absolutely incredible, a 3.1 GPA is multiple SDs lower than even the medians of mid-tier schools.

most of my friends with 3.3+ GPAs and mid 30 MCAT scores got in somewhere, but i know a few with 3.3 GPAs and 38+ MCAT (from top 10 universities majoring in hard sciences) who did not receive a single interview with 30+ applications.

i dont know what the OP's GPA is, but he/she has to make sure that it is as high as it can possibly be.

and a 3.1 GPA will give you major obstacles regardless of your MCAT or ECs. notice again that i said "major obstacles" NOT "you have no chance"
Click to expand...

I see things like this a lot on here and I'm wondering where all these people are. I'm guessing there is a huge problem with their app like terrible grammar or and LOR that essentially says the person is not good or this is an exaggeration. It's one thing to get rejected, it happens to all of us, but to not get an interview is ridiculous. Something else is wrong. I applied a month later than the first day and had 5 interviews (only tried for 6) and got accepted to 3 schools with a 3.22 and a 31. I was an engineer and non-trad so that may have helped but I still think that there aren't many 38 MCAT's that can't get any interviews without some MAJOR flaw somewhere else.
 
jr93 said:
I see things like this a lot on here and I'm wondering where all these people are. I'm guessing there is a huge problem with their app like terrible grammar or and LOR that essentially says the person is not good or this is an exaggeration. It's one thing to get rejected, it happens to all of us, but to not get an interview is ridiculous. Something else is wrong. I applied a month later than the first day and had 5 interviews (only tried for 6) and got accepted to 3 schools with a 3.22 and a 31. I was an engineer and non-trad so that may have helped but I still think that there aren't many 38 MCAT's that can't get any interviews without some MAJOR flaw somewhere else.
Click to expand...

congrats on your acceptances!
 
eamettler said:
Well said, Noggin. And as someone in the 3.1 sGPA/40 camp, I think it's best to make the most of whatever situation we find ourselves in. Since we're all each other's competition, it's easy to get wrapped up in the game of comparison. But I think it's more important to focus on making yourself a better and more experienced person, rather than just a better med school candidate. There is MORE to life than med school admissions, though it definitely does not feel that way right now.

Woooo hopping off this preachy soapbox. Forgive me.
Click to expand...

Really well said! I have to keep telling myself that.
 
Hayley said:
Yep! I definitely see that. But I think I'd rather have the hard working and mentally invested doctor over a naturally brilliant one with a lacking dedication and work ethic. Just my opinion!
Click to expand...

Your viewpoint relies on a student with a 3.7 GPA at one school working harder than a student with a 3.5 GPA at another school. This assumes difficulty of classes are equivalent between universities, and doesn't factor in people such as Psych majors (sorry to throw you guys under the bus!) who generally have a far easier schedule and only take the minimum requirements for med school.

It also doesn't take into account extraneous personal factors, for instance, someone raising a family with a job. Just because that person doesn't have a higher GPA, doesn't mean they're any less of a hard worker or less dedicated.

In short, I'd be cautious of using GPA to assess a person's dedication and work ethic.
 
UCFMD said:
Your viewpoint relies on a student with a 3.7 GPA at one school working harder than a student with a 3.5 GPA at another school. This assumes difficulty of classes are equivalent between universities, and doesn't factor in people such as Psych majors (sorry to throw you guys under the bus!) who generally have a far easier schedule and only take the minimum requirements for med school.

It also doesn't take into account extraneous personal factors, for instance, someone raising a family with a job. Just because that person doesn't have a higher GPA, doesn't mean they're any less of a hard worker or less dedicated.

In short, I'd be cautious of using GPA to assess a person's dedication and work ethic.
Click to expand...

I've said multiple times on this thread that of course I realize that there are confounding factors (and even mentioned the ones that you just stated!) I agree that there are harder majors, harder schools, harder classes, etc. And although I see why a gpa isn't the sole determinant in evaluating a work ethic, I still feel that it plays a big role in determining if somebody "wants it badly enough." There are always exceptions (gosh I feel like I have to say this after every sentence in fear that somebody is going to come after me hahahah) but from my experience, the best students generally have high gpas.
 
Granny Watkins said:
Are you referring to cumulative GPA or science GPA?
Click to expand...

That's actually a good question. Mine are so similar, that I never really separate them in my mind. I guess I was referring to cumulative, though.
 
Well I have a 3.43c/3.3sGPA and a 35 MCAT so I guess I'll get back to you after this season.
 
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