High Pass in surgery...

[dulop]

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Hey all,

I received a HP in surgery which is disheartening to say the least. I'm wondering what people's thoughts are into getting into a top 20 surgery program with this on my application. I have alright 3rd year grades (Honors in medicine and another class) and a strong step 1 (over 250) with some good research (3 pubs and several abstracts)...

Any general advice into the degree in which a HP in surgery hurts you would be helpful and if people are still able to match into great programs (Penn, cornell, WashU, Northwestern, etc.) with this grade...

any advice is much appreciated, thanks to everyone

 

[pincheeric]

Your goal of simply matching into a "top 20" program is more likely the problem. You should re-focus on matching into a program where you'll be happy. Just because a program is highly ranked does not mean you will be fulfilled by working there. However, to answer you question anyway you still have a chance of matching at those institutions if the rest of your application is excellent including your LORs. Your Step 1 and research are strong which help, but I would recommend rethinking your goals.

 

[Winged Scapula]

What do you know about those programs except that someone ranked them in the Top 20 (not sure who since there is no real ranking of surgical residency programs)?

Are you applying there because you know they will serve your needs or because they are "Top 20"? There is no shame in applying to rarified programs but just because they are well recognized doesn't mean that they will offer you the best training.

What are your goals for a career in surgery? Because unlike other specialties where the "Top" programs may indeed offer the best training, the "top" surgical programs don't necessarily produce the best surgeons, at least in terms of skills and operative experience.

Clearly your Step 1 score is great and will open a lot of doors. But expect to be asked about the HP. You can redeem yourself with Honors in a surgical sub-I - are you doing one? I doubt the HP, especially if your Dean notes that "almost no one gets Honors in our surgical rotation" or something of that ilk in his letter, that it will be a major problem.

 

[dulop]

thanks for responses so far,

let me clarify, what I meant by the top 20 is that tope tier of institutions that are most difficult to get into. Come interview season and in deciding where to apply, i may only decide to apply to a minority of programs since they may not fit my goals. Also, location will be a large factor for me.

My point in asking was more at getting to the heart of for the top tier competitive programs (the top 20-30 schools), is it extremely difficult to get in with a HP in 3rd year surgery clerkship. Because if so, it'll give me some perspective on how difficult those programs are in general to match into. If not, it may mean that I can not only match into those, but also those "less competitive" schools which I may prefer going into anyway...

 

[GSresident]

Quick confession:
I got a "pass" in surgery at Northwestern and I ended up a plastic surgeon. Not only did I get a pass but there is something else. At that time, the evaluations included an "above the fold" section that went into your dean's letter and a "below the fold" section that was strictly off the record.

The above the fold section was pretty vanilla. Excellent student, highly motivated etc. The below the fold section was pure vitriol. I was shocked by that evaluation. I thought the rotation had gone extremely well. My chief resident went out of her way to push for me to go to that program and to go into surgery. I was "the best student I have ever had" according to her. Anyway, I'm not sure where the stuff 'below the fold' came from, but it was evil. That lit a fire under my butt and during my 4th year I busted my butt on the surgery elective and got an honors. The clerkship director, who happened to be the person who wrote the original evaluation, enthusiastically offered to write me a personal letter of recommendation. Other staff called people they knew at programs and pushed for me. Again I was shocked. How can you go from the sewer of surgery students to the pinnacle of surgery students?

Long story short: Don't be too worried about how anyone else evaluates you. From that point on I refused to give anyone who rotated with me anything but the maximum grade possible, having gone through the meaningless process of perceived rejection myself. The entire system is set up to reward kiss-asses. You actual potential and aptitude cannot be evaluated by anyone but you. Take this BS in stride and push through it.

 

[Sarcophageal]

My medical school didn't even have Honors or high pass. Or if they did, it was never mentioned or made known to us who went into surgery.

It is the total package. Your >250 step score will probably at least get the cream of the crop ranked by USNews and World Report to glance at your application.

 

[iCut]

Well since there is no such thing as a "top 20 surgery programs" list out there you have to tell us what you consider to be the top 20 programs. Then someone familiar with those programs can give you some idea if you have completely screwed yourself over or not. (My guess is probably not)

 

[SocialistMD]

Your goal of simply matching into a "top 20" program is more likely the problem. You should re-focus on matching into a program where you'll be happy. Just because a program is highly ranked does not mean you will be fulfilled by working there.

So, you bring up something that is very interesting. I recently surveyed the applicants to our program last year and found that >50% of them considered prestige the number one factor in choosing their residency (with location being the second biggest factor). Food for thought, but it is an important factor to the people who match at programs like those listed by the OP.