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neilc

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if you have some business sense, it is very possible. i know i couple of FP's that make well over 250k. they own chains of urgent care centers, and do very very well.

anything is possible! but, these docs are only seeing patients 2-3 days a week, the rest of the time is spent on business, getting work comp contracts, dealing with employees, meetings, etc...i think it would be tough to make that much if you focused on patient care. get others to do the work, and keep the money!
 

neurotrancer

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What are some of the highest paying, lesser competitive residencies, with decent work hours? Every time I think of a field that I might potentially be interested in, it seems that theres only 250 - 300 spots and I think, that makes it seem like it will be impossible to get for someone who could do above average on Step I but not really honoring a whole lot of classes for the preclinical years. I'm concerned because quite honestly, I'm going to a school where I'm going to be graduating with a quarter million dollars of debt and i'm just not too crazy about going into a field that only pays around 80 - 120k if I'm going to be the primary bread earner for my family. I was initially very idealistic about my pursuit of a career in medicine but I am becoming more sensitive now to the economic reality that I will face upon graduation and the idea that it will also be 10 years at least before I start getting paid. Also, I do want to enjoy time with my family and hence, I'm interested in going into a profession where I might be able to get by working 50 hours a week and still make a decent living for my family. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
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cancer_doc

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neuro, I think what you are looking for is very tough to find in the medical field. Easy money and life won't be served to you on a silver platter. You're gonna have to either earn it, beat someone to it, or screw somebody else. I can't think of any speciality that may offer such luxuries that isn't competitive (other than PMR, perhaps?? Anyone can confirm that?) to get into that'll give you what you want.

Have you considered avenues outside the clinical aspect of medicine, like consulting work, administrative work as a medical director, pure business in biotec/medtech?
 

DrQuinn

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Originally posted by neurotrancer
What are some of the highest paying, lesser competitive residencies, with decent work hours? Every time I think of a field that I might potentially be interested in, it seems that theres only 250 - 300 spots and I think, that makes it seem like it will be impossible to get for someone who could do above average on Step I but not really honoring a whole lot of classes for the preclinical years. I'm concerned because quite honestly, I'm going to a school where I'm going to be graduating with a quarter million dollars of debt and i'm just not too crazy about going into a field that only pays around 80 - 120k if I'm going to be the primary bread earner for my family. I was initially very idealistic about my pursuit of a career in medicine but I am becoming more sensitive now to the economic reality that I will face upon graduation and the idea that it will also be 10 years at least before I start getting paid. Also, I do want to enjoy time with my family and hence, I'm interested in going into a profession where I might be able to get by working 50 hours a week and still make a decent living for my family. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Man, if you are making 80k-120k full time as an attending, something's wrong. I know recent FP grads who are makign 150, and IM grads makign 180k.

Q, DO
 

unregistered

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What about pathology? They do pretty well financially and have great lifestyle. They just don't see patients and don't get much respect or recognition. It always surprises me that rads has become so competative but path remains pretty easy to match in.
 

PublicHealth

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Originally posted by unregistered
It always surprises me that rads has become so competative but path remains pretty easy to match in.

Relatively speaking, rads is "high-tech" and path is "low-tech." To make matters worse for aspiring pathologists, many medical schools are now considering cutting (no pun intended) anatomy hours down during the first year, getting rid of cadavers, and teaching anatomy using computers. Apparently, it's cheaper, cleaner, and frees up more time for other USMLE- and COMLEX-relevant topics.
 

Finally M3

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PM&R is getting more competitive, esp. at the 'top' programs. All the program directors I met on the interview trail this year commented on both the increase in numbers and the quality of the applicants during the last few match cycles. I would still say it is the least competitive of the 'lifestyle' fields, however.

Not a field for everyone, do a rotation or two and make sure it's right for you!

And to answer Neurotrancer's question, I think it is definitely possible to make > +$250K

Originally posted by cancer_doc
neuro, I think what you are looking for is very tough to find in the medical field. Easy money and life won't be served to you on a silver platter. You're gonna have to either earn it, beat someone to it, or screw somebody else. I can't think of any speciality that may offer such luxuries that isn't competitive (other than PMR, perhaps?? Anyone can confirm that?) to get into that'll give you what you want.

Have you considered avenues outside the clinical aspect of medicine, like consulting work, administrative work as a medical director, pure business in biotec/medtech?
 

Thewonderer

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You guys all forgot about child psychiatry. Psychiatry is very easy to get in and child psychiatry fellowship continues to be not totally filled from year to year.

There continues to be a severe shortage of child psychiatrists out there. The waitlist is at least 3 months long and many in the community insist out of pocket payments ONLY, and yet they cannot quench the demand. You can make $250k+ by working 40-50 hours a week and more if you feel like it.

But of course, I would not go into any field because of money. Most psychiatrists don't go into child psych for a reason. After all, I doubt anybody goes into psychiatry simply due to money, pestige, etc. And let's keep it that way.
 

MastaP

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There's good money right now in Psychiatry. As so many US Grads have shunned Psych for so long, it seems as there is a shortage of psychiatrists. I've heard stories of residents getting offers of >250K starting salary. Definitely take a look at Psych.

The other uncompetitive specialties with great pay and good lifestyles are anesthesia, pathology, and pm&r.
 

sunny9505

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Psych has gotten a bad rap for so long. And everyone thinks it is the easiest specialty to match in... Do you guys agree? And I have heard that the money in psych is not very good unless you only take cash. If you help the general population, insurance payments have been cut back more for psych than other specialties.
 
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Originally posted by neurotrancer
Any thoughts?

Thanks!

I don't think that heme-onc is that hard to get into, and the private practice docs make serious bank b/c the drug companies pay them a fee to "administer" their drugs. It's a serious ethical dilemma, but the salary range you're looking for is easily within reach.
 

Goober

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Originally posted by Sledge2005
I don't think that heme-onc is that hard to get into, and the private practice docs make serious bank b/c the drug companies pay them a fee to "administer" their drugs. It's a serious ethical dilemma, but the salary range you're looking for is easily within reach.

Yah Heme-onc is not that hard to get into, but Heme-Onc is a very difficult specialty on your mental well being. It takes a certain kind of personality and most docs don't have it. I certainly would not suggest going into for the money!
 

Thewonderer

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For psych, to make money, you might have to shun away some of the indigenous or inner city population, and accept rich out-of-pocket clientelles. But then that's not the reason why people go into psych. Since psych patients continue to be marginalized by the society, the drive to go into that field partially involves the desire to work with the marginalized population (i.e. those people seeking help from the public sector such as the patients at Bellevue and San Francisco General).

However, the surest way to make money in psych is to do either child or do lots of ECT (but then people do not go into psych to push buttons either).

As for heme-onc, I heard that the compensation will be coming down soon because doing chemotherapy will no longer be reimbursed as a "procedure" anymore. All fields that make money is heavy on procedure and if heme-onc cannot bill chemo as procedures, they have no other procedures left to keep salary way up.
 

Goober

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Originally posted by Apollyon
Gas and PM&R have tightened RIGHT up in the past 2-3 years.

True but if you are a american grad, you still should be able to match without a problem.
 

yaah

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Originally posted by PublicHealth
Relatively speaking, rads is "high-tech" and path is "low-tech." To make matters worse for aspiring pathologists, many medical schools are now considering cutting (no pun intended) anatomy hours down during the first year, getting rid of cadavers, and teaching anatomy using computers. Apparently, it's cheaper, cleaner, and frees up more time for other USMLE- and COMLEX-relevant topics.

I think there is a misunderstanding as to what pathologists actually do here. There are too many people who think all pathologists do is do autopsies.

Anatomists, by the way, are generally not practicing pathologists. I was taught anatomy by people who were full-time anatomists and cell-biology researchers, as well as by a radiologist. I would be willing to bet that less than 1% of all academic pathologists (let alone all those in private practice) have anything to do with the anatomy lab.

Path is not low tech. I am not going to go into the wide variety of things that pathologists do, but suffice it to say that pathology is probably one of the most high-tech specialties when you consider molecular diagnostics, immunohistochemistry, various lab tests, etc.

We had a topic in the path forums about some schools de-emphasizing the microscope and histology slides during 2nd year, I imagine this is similar to decreasing anatomy lab time. This, however unpleasant the implications, have almost nothing to do with future job opportunities for aspiring pathologists. The scope and breadth of pathology is continuing to increase, and there will be lots of job opportunities. Many pathologists, BTW, do see patients, both in CP and in AP.

Heme-onc, I would suggest, is not the specialty for someone looking for a good lifestyle. These folks work REALLY hard and have to know a lot of info. It may be very rewarding for certain kinds of people.

And, to reiterate, no matter what field of medicine you go into, if you want to be successful, you are going to have to work hard, including long hours. The best bets for the lifestyle folks are those fields with something similar to shift work, like ER. Or go into research and make your own schedule.
 

Homunculus

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as someone who seriously considered path, i think you are mostly right.

Originally posted by yaah
I think there is a misunderstanding as to what pathologists actually do here. There are too many people who think all pathologists do is do autopsies.

true. pathology is much broader than people think. it's not CSI, but it is much more involved than autopsies. even in AP i think autopsies are a small percentage of what you do-- because with the exception of a few cases and of course forensics, the reason most people die isn't a mystery.

Originally posted by yaah
Path is not low tech. I am not going to go into the wide variety of things that pathologists do, but suffice it to say that pathology is probably one of the most high-tech specialties when you consider molecular diagnostics, immunohistochemistry, various lab tests, etc.

it's not low tech, but it's not high tech, either. sure, the lab equipment is high tech, the theories and science behind immunohistochemistry is high tech, and molecular diagnostics is high tech, but AP *still* boils down to putting eyes on a slide. all the "high tech" stuff is done by techs anyway. even in CP the majority of what a pathologist does isn't high tech, unless they are involved with research

Originally posted by yaah
Many pathologists, BTW, do see patients, both in CP and in AP.

subsitute "many" with "some" and if by "seeing patients" you mean "hi, i'm Dr. XX here to do your biopsy" then i would agree.

Originally posted by yaah
And, to reiterate, no matter what field of medicine you go into, if you want to be successful, you are going to have to work hard, including long hours. The best bets for the lifestyle folks are those fields with something similar to shift work, like ER. Or go into research and make your own schedule.

the money is there in *any* specialty for people willing to work
 

mdblue

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Just came back from a job fair for psych. Majority are offering 120/130K for starters in NE areas(near metros/9-5/3rd party pay). It's not great and that's why people don't want to go to psych. You can get 180K jobs(extremely rare), but be assured it'll be in-pt coverage/scheduled calls /lots of paperwork/in the bush.
Child psych typically make 10/15K more than adult, but the time you spend over phone coordinating different services justifies the extra $. I doubt whether it's worth it. But again people do specialty training not ONLY for $.
Hope this helps.
PS- I don't know anything about west coast-will appreciate some input for psych offers.
 

yaah

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Originally posted by Homunculus
it's not low tech, but it's not high tech, either. sure, the lab equipment is high tech, the theories and science behind immunohistochemistry is high tech, and molecular diagnostics is high tech, but AP *still* boils down to putting eyes on a slide. all the "high tech" stuff is done by techs anyway. even in CP the majority of what a pathologist does isn't high tech, unless they are involved with research

It's semantics, I guess. I could argue that radiology is the same because people are just looking at pictures a machine creates and interpreting them, but that's simplifying it a bit too much. The more I look at path, and think about its future, the more I think technology will be more important for many. Some will have a career based a great deal on looking at slides, but many pathologists never look at a slide.

subsitute "many" with "some" and if by "seeing patients" you mean "hi, i'm Dr. XX here to do your biopsy" then i would agree.

There actually are pathologists who see patients more than for FNAs. It's mostly clinical path, and people who have a special interest or expertise, but it's certainly there. Some see people with paltelet disorders, coag issues, etc. I too was worried when I considered path that there wasn't enough patient contact, but then I spent days with surgeons who never really interacted with patients either. And then I spent time with some of these patients that everyone talks so much about and find so rewarding, and I had had enough! A lot of them are great and make the job worth it, but a lot of them are complete pills. Of course, most pathologists don't see patients,I know that.
 

Thewonderer

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Originally posted by mdblue
Just came back from a job fair for psych. Majority are offering 120/130K for starters in NE areas(near metros/9-5/3rd party pay). It's not great and that's why people don't want to go to psych. You can get 180K jobs(extremely rare), but be assured it'll be in-pt coverage/scheduled calls /lots of paperwork/in the bush.
Child psych typically make 10/15K more than adult, but the time you spend over phone coordinating different services justifies the extra $. I doubt whether it's worth it. But again people do specialty training not ONLY for $.
Hope this helps.
PS- I don't know anything about west coast-will appreciate some input for psych offers.

good info to hear!

I guess that to make money in psych is the same as family med: you need to open your own practice and be a shrewd business person. otherwise, if you are a new residency grad and want to fit into just any pre-arranged practice/schedule, then your pay will suffer due to the lack of control you have over it.

I have always thought that child psych makes much more, say, in the 200-250k range, easily.
 
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