High Stats, Poor-ish ECs, Canadian (non-US citizen) WAMC?

[yokiguz]

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Applying June 2021

cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS

cGPA: 3.95, sGPA: 3.95+

MCAT score(s) and breakdown

Expired: 517 (130/128/131/128)
Rewrite hoping for a 520+. Think it is realistic. Have more time to study, 2 more years of UG experience, and experience prev. writing it.

State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US)

Canadian

Ethnicity and/or race

Pakistani

Undergraduate institution or category

Canadian University

Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer)

55 hours of volunteering at hospital. Went to different wards and asked patients how there experience was. If I could do anything to fix it i would. If not would talk to nurse/manager of department.

Was planning on getting lots more this summer before applying but COVID-19 happened. Still looking to get more clinical experience as soon as I can.

Research experience and productivity

4 months full-time researching at USC (Keck) - Got 1 pub (late author), 1 abstract (2nd author)
8 months full-time working at a local chemical synth company as an analytical chemist
4 months full-time working at summer STEM camp for HS kids --> Loved teaching/helping others with STEM
4 months full-time researching at U of Toronto.
Private tutored for several years (chemistry)
Started my own lawn care company this year, hoping it will go well, have a handful of clients so far.

Shadowing experience and specialties represented

Shadowed family doctor for 50 hours, after covid-19 will continue to. Looking for other doctors to shadow after COVID-19. Hard here in Canada.

Non-clinical volunteering

Will be volunteering as an English tutor to new families after COVID-19, but the program was put on pause
Will be volunteering as a tutor to HS students

Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)

VP of club that raises funds/awareness of a rare disease
Founder of a club on campus that raises awareness of healthy eating and nutrition

Relevant honours or awards

Obtained 3 scholarships
Entrance scholarship based on HS grades
Award scholarship due to notable academic standing, leadership, self-motivation, and practical aptitude.
Award due to high grades in past year

Anything else not listed you think might be important

Hobbies include lifting weights, running, building computers for friends and family, worked in construction with my father business for an extended period of time, have a YT channel (unsuccessful thus far, but put time in).

Current school list: Boston, Case Western, Columbia, Duke, Emory, Dartmouth, George Washington, Georgetown, Harvard, Icahn, John Hopkins, Mayo, Meharry, NY Medical College, Mich State, Northwestern Feinberg, Perelman, Renaissance (SUNY), Saint Louis, Sidney Kimmel, Saint Louis, Stanford, Upstate (SUNY), Warren Alpert (Brown), Tulane, UCLA, Pritzker (Chicago), Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Pittsburgh, Utah, Virginia, Vanderbilt, Virginia Commonwealth, Washington at St. Louis, Wayne State, Cornell, Yale.

Trying to secure good LORs now.

Big questions are: 1) WAMC I'll get into some of these schools? Specifically the bolded ones. 2) How much is my lack of volunteering experience hurting me, I wish I could do more before June 2021, but COVID-19 seems to have shut everything down here. 3) How is my list, should I change it?

Thank you for all the help.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Why did you let your MCAT expire?

How many hours of nonclinical volunteering do you have with the underserved?

 

[yokiguz]

Why did you let your MCAT expire?

How many hours of nonclinical volunteering do you have with the underserved?

Took it in second year, joined co-op which extended my undergrad to 5 years.

Currently none, had positions lined up but COVID-19 cancelled them, once this blows over will be volunteering with the underserved. Am applying June 2021, so I'll have hours.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I think you’ll need an even higher score on your second attempt to have a real shot at the bolded schools. The original 517 is below their median.

What hours are you claiming for your activities currently (for those where you’ve listed none)? The very selective schools you’ve identified will require lots of clinical and non clinical hours.

Are you considering Canadian medical schools?

 

[yokiguz]

I think you’ll need an even higher score on your second attempt to have a real shot at the bolded schools. The original 517 is below their median.

What hours are you claiming for your activities currently (for those where you’ve listed none)? The very selective schools you’ve identified will require lots of clinical and non clinical hours.

Are you considering Canadian medical schools?

Not currently considering Canadian medical schools. What is a score I should aim for. Of course as high as possible, but what score would make me competitive?

In regards to my hours, I totally forgot I was a mentor for inner-city LA HS kids researching at a lab at USC. That was at least a couple hundred hours. Additionally, I am hoping to have at least a couple hundred more non-clinical hours volunteering 1) Homeless shelter kitchen 2) Crisis Hotline.

For clinical volunteering it all really depends on how fast we recover from COVID-19 and how safe it is to allow volunteers again. If they open up this summer I should be able to get at least a couple hundred clinical hours. I will be graduating this summer and besides 1-2 pre-req courses I'll be 100% able to dedicate myself to volunteering.

 

[CorgiLoaf]

@yokiguz Do you have MSAR? If not, get a subscription.

It's no secret that international applicants need higher-than-average stats to matriculate into US MD schools. For example, Columbia only interviewed 18/496 international applicants last year, with only 1 matriculating (I don't know the acceptance rate though). Duke interviewed 13/307 with only 2 matriculating. It's similar for most of the schools you're aiming for.

You'll probably need at least a 75% percentile for these schools on your MCAT, so around a 522-524. Like MyOdyssey said, you definitely need more volunteering. I'm not sure how it would look to adcoms if you start 4 different volunteering roles at the same time during your last year before applying.

If you get a 520+, you should have a decent shot at US MD. Just don't put all your hopes and dreams on the very top schools you are applying to.

 

[yokiguz]

@yokiguz Do you have MSAR? If not, get a subscription.

It's no secret that international applicants need higher-than-average stats to matriculate into US MD schools. For example, Columbia only interviewed 18/496 international applicants last year, with only 1 matriculating (I don't know the acceptance rate though). Duke interviewed 13/307 with only 2 matriculating. It's similar for most of the schools you're aiming for.

You'll probably need at least a 75% percentile for these schools on your MCAT, so around a 522-524. Like MyOdyssey said, you definitely need more volunteering. I'm not sure how it would look to adcoms if you start 4 different volunteering roles at the same time during your last year before applying.

If you get a 520+, you should have a decent shot at US MD. Just don't put all your hopes and dreams on the very top schools you are applying to.

Yes, I currently do have the MSAR. I've constructed my list based upon that. Would it be best then to an additional gap year? I will graduating this summer. If I apply June 2022 instead is that too late after my undergrad? I would matriculate Sept. 2023. That is 3 years after graduating. Seems like a lot of time, not sure how schools will look at that. Especiailly since I took most of my pre-reqs 2015-2016 (first year). What do you think I should do?

 

[CorgiLoaf]

Yes, I currently do have the MSAR. I've constructed my list based upon that. Would it be best then to an additional gap year? I will graduating this summer. If I apply June 2022 instead is that too late after my undergrad? I would matriculate Sept. 2023. That is 3 years after graduating. Seems like a lot of time, not sure how schools will look at that. Especiailly since I took most of my pre-reqs 2015-2016 (first year). What do you think I should do?

For most schools, it won't matter if you took upper-level science courses within the past 5 years (i.e. Junior/Senior year). Check the prereqs at each individual school though.

And no, actually taking time off just means you have more time to mature and develop important life experiences. A lot of premeds are taking 1-2 gap years now after undergrad. As long as you are productive (full-time work/volunteering) and not just bumming around on Netflix, schools won't care how much time you take off. It's more important to have a solid first-time application, especially since you are international, and very especially since you are aiming for T20 schools.

 

[yokiguz]

For most schools, it won't matter if you took upper-level science courses within the past 5 years (i.e. Junior/Senior year). Check the prereqs at each individual school though.

And no, actually taking time off just means you have more time to mature and develop important life experiences. A lot of premeds are taking 1-2 gap years now after undergrad. As long as you are productive (full-time work/volunteering) and not just bumming around on Netflix, schools won't care how much time you take off. It's more important to have a solid first-time application, especially since you are international, and very especially since you are aiming for T20 schools.

Thank you very much for the help and the advice. In the mean time what kind of full-time job would you recommend? I might be able to find some type of clinical research positions. Is there any other jobs which would be good? Of course I will be focusing most of my time on volunteering I'd still like to be having some type of clinical job to pay back my student loans.

 

[duckegg]

Hey! I just wanted to mention that Brown and Pritzker are definitely not Canadian friendly. Also, you should try to get some additional clinical exposure in the U.S. (if the current situation improves before you end up applying). Good luck and feel free to PM me with any specific questions!

 

[yokiguz]

Hey! I just wanted to mention that Brown and Pritzker are definitely not Canadian friendly. Also, you should try to get some additional clinical exposure in the U.S. (if the current situation improves before you end up applying). Good luck and feel free to PM me with any specific questions!

Is there any advantage to US clinical exposure over Canadian?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Is there any advantage to US clinical exposure over Canadian?

I think you will learn a lot about the differences in the health care coverages and systems, not to mention issues of access to disadvantaged and vulnerable populations.

 

[yokiguz]

I think you will learn a lot about the differences in the health care coverages and systems, not to mention issues of access to disadvantaged and vulnerable populations.

That is very true. What kind of clinical experiences would be help me learn more about these differences?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

That is very true. What kind of clinical experiences would be help me learn more about these differences?

Well, it's not often I'll cite something from St. George's (don't go Caribbean, people!) but as a small example of a few differences (and you can look up more on searching the internet):

Comparing the US and Canadian Health Care Systems: 4 Differences You Need to Know

Find out some of the significant ways the US and Canadian health care systems differ from each other.

www.sgu.edu

 

[yokiguz]

Well, it's not often I'll cite something from St. George's (don't go Caribbean, people!) but as a small example of a few differences (and you can look up more on searching the internet):

Comparing the US and Canadian Health Care Systems: 4 Differences You Need to Know

Find out some of the significant ways the US and Canadian health care systems differ from each other.

www.sgu.edu

Thanks for this resource I will keep it in mind. Might be an off-topic question. But as a Canadian am I allowed to volunteer clinically in the states with the regular travellers VISA?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for this resource I will keep it in mind. Might be an off-topic question. But as a Canadian am I allowed to volunteer clinically in the states with the regular travellers VISA?

That would be something to ask your immigration officer if you are still a university student first.

 

[yokiguz]

That would be something to ask your immigration officer if you are still a university student first.

Thank you for the advice! You seem to be very informed when it comes to this process, I see you name around quite often. Do you think taking 2-3 gap years would look poorly on an application. I am planning to apply in 2022 as it would provide me time to volunteer and shadow more thoroughly. I am graduating this summer. Would schools be hesitant about me not taking pre-req courses since I was in first year?


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[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you for the advice! You seem to be very informed when it comes to this process, I see you name around quite often. Do you think taking 2-3 gap years would look poorly on an application. I am planning to apply in 2022 as it would provide me time to volunteer and shadow more thoroughly. I am graduating this summer. Would schools be hesitant about me not taking pre-req courses since I was in first year?

Depends on what you do in the 2-3 years. Also know that you probably shouldn't rush to take an MCAT if you anticipate being out of the applicant pool for that long. Wait until it's closer to time to apply.

I've seen some very strong applicants who have taken 2-3 years off or even career-changed. You just need to show how much you have matured and prepared for a lifelong career in medicine in service to those who are extremely vulnerable and unable to access the health care system... but you need to decide whether you want to learn about the US or the Canadian health care systems.

 

[yokiguz]

Depends on what you do in the 2-3 years. Also know that you probably shouldn't rush to take an MCAT if you anticipate being out of the applicant pool for that long. Wait until it's closer to time to apply.

I've seen some very strong applicants who have taken 2-3 years off or even career-changed. You just need to show how much you have matured and prepared for a lifelong career in medicine in service to those who are extremely vulnerable and unable to access the health care system... but you need to decide whether you want to learn about the US or the Canadian health care systems.

What would be ideal to do during these two years?

I'm trying to find more shadowing experiences (in the States particularly) and more volunteering (clinical and non-clinical) here in Canada. However, pretty much everything clinical is shut down to volunteers at the moment, I guess I'm just worried that nothing is going to re-open for years here in Canada. But that's a small problem compared to what others are going through during this pandemic.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Since this is an unprecedented situation, or at least it hasn't happened in 100 years, there is nothing prescriptive other than what has been said you need with respect to experience. Since I'm not as knowledgeable about Canadian hospitals, I would think that chances are more likely that since you can't travel into the US frequently, you could connect with Canadian medical students (Canadian Federation of Medical Students) and see what opportunities they see may value your enthusiasm. They may also provide advice on your future application, especially if your profile is strong enough for admission.

 

[yokiguz]

Since this is an unprecedented situation, or at least it hasn't happened in 100 years, there is nothing prescriptive other than what has been said you need with respect to experience. Since I'm not as knowledgeable about Canadian hospitals, I would think that chances are more likely that since you can't travel into the US frequently, you could connect with Canadian medical students (Canadian Federation of Medical Students) and see what opportunities they see may value your enthusiasm. They may also provide advice on your future application, especially if your profile is strong enough for admission.

Thank you again for this great resource. I have never heard of CFMS, but now I will definitely reach out to them. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Bones & Muscles]

Calculate your LM and WARS scores, they give you a better idea. But I think you've got a good chance if you apply early.

I think Brown and Pritzker are a waste of money. Unless you get an MCAT score over 517, I think your stats are too low for Penn, Hopkins WashU, and Vanderbilt. The other ones may look at other aspects of your app and if it is strong it may compensate.

https://jscalc.io/calc/9SeMOmBviP4E3SbA

 

[yokiguz]

Calculate your LM and WARS scores, they give you a better idea. But I think you've got a good chance if you apply early.

I think Brown and Pritzker are a waste of money. Unless you get an MCAT score over 517, I think your stats are too low for Penn, Hopkins WashU, and Vanderbilt. The other ones may look at other aspects of your app and if it is strong it may compensate.

https://jscalc.io/calc/9SeMOmBviP4E3SbA

Thanks for the advice. I have decided to take 1-2 gaps years and get a lot more clinical experience and volunteering experience. I do have strong grades, research experience, and a decent MCAT score. But I need to improve other aspects of myself. Thank you again.


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