Highest Paid Fellowships in Not so competitive residencies

[Downstatedoc]

I had an interesting thought....everyone is focusing on the radiology, optho, derm, plastics etc etc, mainly because of the lifestyle/money....which in turn makes it quite competitive.

What I thought would be interesting to hear about is, what fellowships are just as highly paid, but substantially easier to get into because the residency is NOT as competitive.

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[mlw03]

dermpath sorta fits the bill. getting into path isn't uber-competitive. however dermpath fellowships are very competitive because a) they make mega-$$ b) they're open to dermatologists and pathologists. i've been told by my IM friends that gastroenterology and cardiology are similar in that IM is easy to get into but those fellowships are very competitive.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Outside of maybe FP, every field will have fellowship and specialty options that will tend to make more money than generalists. Everybody knows IM has a ton, but fields like OB/GYN has a lot too (Maternal Fetal Medicine, Reproductive Endocrinology, Gyn Oncology, Gyn Surgery fellowships).

The thing is, thes fellowships tend to be competitive. And if you look at "Charting Outcomes in the Match
(http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf) you'll see that EVERY field has people who score 250+ and lots of research match into it. So you will be competiting with some smart, motivated people.

Doing Med School -> Competitive Residency vs. Med School -> Less Competitive Residency -> Competitive fellowship just changes when you need to shine and work your hardest.

 

[southerndoc]

Our EMS and ultrasound fellows make $90,000/year.

 

[Blade28]

I had an interesting thought....everyone is focusing on the radiology, optho, derm, plastics etc etc, mainly because of the lifestyle/money....which in turn makes it quite competitive.

What I thought would be interesting to hear about is, what fellowships are just as highly paid, but substantially easier to get into because the residency is NOT as competitive.

In some respects, you answered your own question.

The aforementioned competitive fields - Rads, Ophtho, Derm, Plastics - are competitive because of the money and lifestyle.

So it's going to be tough to find other less-competitive fields with equally appealing money/lifestyle prospects since, almost by definition, fields with those positive attributes are going to be competitive.

 

[orientedtoself]

medical subspecialties.

bodenheimer, annals of internal medicine, 20 feb 2007, the primary care- specialty income gap: why it matters

median salary 2004
interventional cards 427,815
heme/onc 350,250
gi 368,733

how does this compare?
anesthesia 297,000
derm 308,855
rads 406,852
urology 335,731
ent 296,623
primary care im 168,551
fp 156,011

 

[cchoukal]

PMR and neurology are fairly easy to get into, and both residencies make one eligible to apply for pain fellowships. I'm not aware how successful these applicants are, though. My understanding is that most pain fellows are from anesthesiology residencies.

 

[jane70]

And don't forget psychiatry! It's not considered a competitive residency and then there are fellowships in forensics, child, geriatric, addictions, and psychosomatic. They all have pretty nice lifestyles but the salary isn't as high as some of those others. Although I hear you can make a lot in child or forensics, particularly b/c there is such a shortage, especially in child psych.

 

[LADoc00]

dermpath is the highest compensated activity in medicine on a per hour basis. There is nothing even remotely close.

 

[Long Dong]

dermpath is the highest compensated activity in medicine on a per hour basis. There is nothing even remotely close.

I was under the impression Mohs surgery comes pretty close. Ether way derm is where it is @.

But to the OP it is my understanding allergy/imuno makes mad cheese and works 9-5 Mon-Fri.

 

[LADoc00]

I was under the impression Mohs surgery comes pretty close. Ether way derm is where it is @.

But to the OP it is my understanding allergy/imuno makes mad cheese and works 9-5 Mon-Fri.

Not even the same ballpark if account for time getting consents, clinical pre and post op visits.

Dermpath is akin to simply printing Benjamin Franklins on a color printer in your office.

 

[Long Dong]

Not even the same ballpark if account for time getting consents, clinical pre and post op visits.

Dermpath is akin to simply printing Benjamin Franklins on a color printer in your office.

I better change my signature to Dermpath or Bust then.😀

 

[mlw03]

I better change my signature to Dermpath or Bust then.😀

you and half of the pathology forum. of course the downside is that you spend all day looking at skin, skin, and more skin. lunch break, then look at more skin. then take a short break to print up all that money... but then it's back to looking at more skin. not for mlw, no thank you.

 

[Long Dong]

you and half of the pathology forum. of course the downside is that you spend all day looking at skin, skin, and more skin. lunch break, then look at more skin. then take a short break to print up all that money... but then it's back to looking at more skin. not for mlw, no thank you.

More like 75% of the path forum has the hots for dermpath.
Luckly not that many from my side have the hots for it, most peeps from my end want the glitz and glam of Mohs. My ideal would be to look at skin under slides 2 days a week and look at skin on patients the other 3 days a week. That well only leave me the weekend to print up all that money.😀

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Oh SDN, where a discussion of fellowships from noncompetitive residencies turns into a Derm discussion.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Oh SDN, where a discussion of fellowships from noncompetitive residencies turns into a Derm discussion.

Well, dermatopathology is indeed a fellowship that one could get to from a "non-competitive" specialty (Pathology). But overall, I agree with your point.

I'm just glad that I'm not really into skin...well, looking at it at 4x anyway.

 

[Llenroc]

More like 75% of the path forum has the hots for dermpath.
Luckly not that many from my side have the hots for it, most peeps from my end want the glitz and glam of Mohs. My ideal would be to look at skin under slides 2 days a week and look at skin on patients the other 3 days a week. That well only leave me the weekend to print up all that money.😀

This is glamorous?

Anyway, my Dad is in Allergy and I'm not going to reveal how much he makes, but I will say that today Allergy and Immunology is very difficult to get into. You also have to do three years of Internal Medicine or Pediatrics prior to it.

Your best bet for cruising through medical school doing the minimum, getting into an easy 40-50 hour/week residency, and then going into a lucrative fellowship is probably PM&R followed by interventional pain. Nothing beats that. The current half million dollar salaries for 40 hour a week work won't last forever, but even in the future it should continue to be quite lucrative.

 

[Long Dong]

This is glamorous?

Anyway, my Dad is in Allergy and I'm not going to reveal how much he makes, but I will say that today Allergy and Immunology is very difficult to get into. You also have to do three years of Internal Medicine or Pediatrics prior to it.

That pic may not look glam but the repair of something like that is pretty cool. Mohs is actually incoporated into what is now called a procedural derm fellowship which includes things like, reconstructive surgery, lasers, lipo suction, face lifts, fillers, botox and hair transplants which some see as pretty glitz and glam.

As for allergy/immuno, when I was a med student one of the allergy fellows told me that it isn't uncommon for them to make 7 figures working 9-5 Mon-Fri, no call and no emergancies.

 

[dave2626]

The secret is the neurology residency followed by a movement disorder fellowship... botox, botox, and myobloc...

Or you can do shiftwork after a neurocritical care fellowship for 1.5-2k/day

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

As for allergy/immuno, when I was a med student one of the allergy fellows told me that it isn't uncommon for them to make 7 figures working 9-5 Mon-Fri, no call and no emergancies.

Whattttttt!

Why are people jumping on GI and Cardio again?

I've always said if I did IM, I'd definitely do Allergy.

 

[RisingSun]

The secret is the neurology residency followed by a movement disorder fellowship... botox, botox, and myobloc...

Or you can do shiftwork after a neurocritical care fellowship for 1.5-2k/day

My understanding is that Neurocritical care tends to be in academic centers and so the compensation is comparatively low considering the grueling nature of the two-year fellowship.

Lately I'm becoming more and more interested in neuro - thinking about vascular or neurocritical care. Nice to hear that the compensation might not be as low as I was led to believe.

Word is that headache guys are paid.

 

[GoodMonkey]

allergy/immuno may get paid, but DAAAAYUM 😴😴😴

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

allergy/immuno may get paid, but DAAAAYUM 😴😴😴

Actually I think the A/I salaries in this thread may be a bit outdated.

I went over to the IM subspecialities forum and found a very informative thread. Lots of A/I docs giving first hand info regarding currents trends in their field.

Short story: reimbursements for their "cash cow" (IVIG) has gone WAY down. Surprise, surprise...😡

Makes me wonder just who the hell is still making dough these days in medicine- Rads? Pain? That's it?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=272722

 

[Coastie]

A/I doesn't make anywhere close to the salaries here.

Spine, Plastics (if you break into aesthetics), Pain, Cards, GI, Heme/Onc, Neurosurgery, Ortho, Rads, Gas, Bariatric Surgery, Derm, High-Volume Ophtho (almost impossible to break into these days), Retina, ENT, Rad Onc..

Those have the ability (but far from guarantee) to make over 500k. I'm surprised Heme-Onc isn't more competitive, seeing as the starting salaries I've spoken to fellows about far outstrip GI, and are very competitive with top-dollar cards practices..

 

[Long Dong]

Actually I think the A/I salaries in this thread may be a bit outdated.

I went over to the IM subspecialities forum and found a very informative thread. Lots of A/I docs giving first hand info regarding currents trends in their field.

Short story: reimbursements for their "cash cow" (IVIG) has gone WAY down. Surprise, surprise...😡

Makes me wonder just who the hell is still making dough these days in medicine- Rads? Pain? That's it?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=272722

Yeah probably, I was just stating what the A/I fellow was telling me unsolicited. Granted this was last year when I had just matched I got alot of that. I remember going to a club on 2 seperate occasions and 2 guys that had graduated the year before me said to me "congrats on the match, but I'm still going to make more money then you." This was totally unsolicited too.😕

 

[sunlioness]

And don't forget psychiatry! It's not considered a competitive residency and then there are fellowships in forensics, child, geriatric, addictions, and psychosomatic. They all have pretty nice lifestyles but the salary isn't as high as some of those others. Although I hear you can make a lot in child or forensics, particularly b/c there is such a shortage, especially in child psych.

Just what I was going to say. I think forensic and child psychiatrists are paid very well, though I don't know for sure exactly since I am not actually interested in pursuing either of them.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Yeah probably, I was just stating what the A/I fellow was telling me unsolicited. Granted this was last year when I had just matched I got alot of that. I remember going to a club on 2 seperate occasions and 2 guys that had graduated the year before me said to me "congrats on the match, but I'm still going to make more money then you." This was totally unsolicited too.😕

Two interns at a club trying to show-up a 4th year who matched Derm. I smell some jealousy bro. Once you're done with PGY-1 year it's smooth sailing for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Can't say that about a lot of other specialities.

I've become quite money conscious in the last 2 years. Learning TONS here on SDN and from talking to some of my boys who recently finished their ophtho fellowships about the stinky job market.

Short story: I'm shooting for a surgical Vitreo-Retinal fellowship. It seems they're the only ophthalmologists with any kind of respectable income these days. If I get sick of dealing with insurance companies I may try to convert to a cash only practice. Yeah, in my dreams...or

Plan B- run my own Medspa with my own product line.

LD, you in on this one?

 

[Long Dong]

Two interns at a club trying to show-up a 4th year who matched Derm. I smell some jealousy bro. Once you're done with PGY-1 year it's smooth sailing for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Can't say that about a lot of other specialities.

I've become quite money conscious in the last 2 years. Learning TONS here on SDN and from talking to some of my boys who recently finished their ophtho fellowships about the stinky job market.

Short story: I'm shooting for a surgical Vitreo-Retinal fellowship. It seems they're the only ophthalmologists with any kind of respectable income these days. If I get sick of dealing with insurance companies I may try to convert to a cash only practice. Yeah, in my dreams...or

Plan B- run my own Medspa with my own product line.

LD, you in on this one?

Word, I'm down.

You could always inject all those crows feet. I've heard one of those occulo plastics guy say "the face is near the eyes so why can't I do a face lift, hell the breast is near the eyes so why can't I do a boob job."

Me I'm going to make a night cream with the "all natural" active ingredients being fish sauce and shrimp paste. If the customers don't like how it works on their face they can always put it in their food. I'm going to call it Pho-active (this is just a joke, but if anyone steals my idea I expect compensation).😀

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Just what I was going to say. I think forensic and child psychiatrists are paid very well, though I don't know for sure exactly since I am not actually interested in pursuing either of them.

Child is interesting because there seems to be a real split in the field.

Some people go into it because they're altruists and want to work with kids who need the most help. Thus, they spend a lot of time with foster kids, kids with bad parents, abused kids etc. As you might expect, this doesn't pay the best: lots of public aid type stuff.

Others go in and set up a real boutique type practice, good insurance only. They're the ones who can get paid really well.

 

[howelljolly]

Child is interesting because there seems to be a real split in the field.

Some people go into it because they're altruists and want to work with kids who need the most help. Thus, they spend a lot of time with foster kids, kids with bad parents, abused kids etc. As you might expect, this doesn't pay the best: lots of public aid type stuff.

Others go in and set up a real boutique type practice, good insurance only. They're the ones who can get paid really well.

Child is well compensated because it is in demand right now. In some location, Addiction is the most highly comp'ed subspecialty of psych.

 

[danzman]

Obviously it’s not what the OP had in mind but… According to recent job postings in the Midwest and South, EM is making about 300K with three years exp, generally starting around 150-200K. When one considers that the residency (can be) is three years, and that most only do three 12’s a week, it sounds like a pretty sweet gig. One of the docs I know is working Sun, Mon, Tue, 7p to 7a, makes just under 400K and runs a family practice clinic with a PA that nets him another couple of grand a month (PA sees 90% of work). He told me it is the best job in medicine today. No pagers, no late night calls, good money. Funny hours though.

 

[southerndoc]

Obviously it’s not what the OP had in mind but… According to recent job postings in the Midwest and South, EM is making about 300K with three years exp, generally starting around 150-200K. When one considers that the residency (can be) is three years, and that most only do three 12’s a week, it sounds like a pretty sweet gig. One of the docs I know is working Sun, Mon, Tue, 7p to 7a, makes just under 400K and runs a family practice clinic with a PA that nets him another couple of grand a month (PA sees 90% of work). He told me it is the best job in medicine today. No pagers, no late night calls, good money. Funny hours though.

Yep, you can have another job while working in the ED. I signed with a group that is known for high pay (fee for service group), and I'm currently working on two business opportunities (one of them very lucrative already, the other will be starting up in the next year).

EM was definitely the right choice for me! I get to play doctor 3 days/week and play businessman another 2-3.

 

[abefromann]

I've heard that heme/onc is harder these days d/t good pay and lifestyle concerns. Anyone know any info about heme/onc lifestyle (hourwise). Even anecdotal evidence is appreciated. Plus I'd like to know more about the hours during fellowship.

 

[Llenroc]

I've heard that heme/onc is harder these days d/t good pay and lifestyle concerns. Anyone know any info about heme/onc lifestyle (hourwise). Even anecdotal evidence is appreciated. Plus I'd like to know more about the hours during fellowship.

The people I've met in heme/onc seem to work long hours and are very stressed out at all times. I could be wrong though.

 

[michaelrack]

Child is well compensated because it is in demand right now. In some location, Addiction is the most highly comp'ed subspecialty of psych.

In most areas, sleep is the most highly comp'ed subspecialty of psych.

 

[MOHS_01]

This is glamorous?

.

LA is spot on (as usual). Mohs was not nearly as good as dermpath (even in its prime), the disparity is even more impressive now. Dermpath allows for huge volumes -- which is where the money is made.

BTW -- the proposed reconstruction for the defect in the image above is not a great option.

 

[Strength&Speed]

That pic may not look glam but the repair of something like that is pretty cool. Mohs is actually incoporated into what is now called a procedural derm fellowship which includes things like, reconstructive surgery, lasers, lipo suction, face lifts, fillers, botox and hair transplants which some see as pretty glitz and glam.

As for allergy/immuno, when I was a med student one of the allergy fellows told me that it isn't uncommon for them to make 7 figures working 9-5 Mon-Fri, no call and no emergancies.

no chance all/immuno is making 7 figures. unless they are running an unscrupulous allergy shot factory.

 

[TexPre-Med]

I heard A/I was becoming almost obsolete. Any truth?