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highschool straight to Optometry school!

Discussion in 'Pre-Optometry' started by jc812, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. jc812

    jc812 Member
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    College graduates asking me why highschoolers can't just apply straight to Optometry school... or even Med school... like they're training us to become hygienists or mechanics (no offense to those occupations).


    I didn't even know how to answer, it caught me off guard.

    Your thoughts/experiences on this particular subject matter?
     
  2. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks the real fresh prince
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    High school is meant to prepare one for college. In college, not only do you set the foundation for higher learning, you mature as an adult by learning valuable leadership and social skills along with ability to think critically and logically in an efficient manner. Plus you get to do some pretty good partying :laugh:. Why the rush to grow up? Enjoy your life while you're still young!
     
  3. gochi

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    Im sorry but this is such bs.

    How the hell is high school supposed to prepare you for college? Mostly all first years struggle in college.

    As for the other stuff, you can learn/execute all of that when you get a job. College is nothing but memorizing bs which you will never use actively during your lifespan.

    And you dont have to go to school to have a good time; its quite the contrary.

    Though you are right about enjoying your life when you are still young. But, isnt 21 young enough ?
     
  4. gochi

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    Two reasons.

    1. The ******ed American/Canadian education system.

    2. Because pharm/dent/med/vet/pod/aud/therp also have that requirement.
     
  5. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks the real fresh prince
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    According to your logic, a high school graduate can do just as well in optometry school than a college graduate. How in the world can you expect a high school graduate to breeze through an accelerated course in biochemistry or neurophysiology or ocular physiology without a solid foundation in the natural sciences? Do you expect them to use the basic principles they learned in their high school courses? Why do you think optometry schools have prerequisite courses? Because they have nothing better to do and love to see you waste your time? As you may have already noticed by recent posts, even college graduates are having trouble adjusting to the optometry school curriculum. How can you expect a high school graduate to do any better?

    If you were the director of human resources at a small consulting firm, who would you rather hire:

    A. A mature recent graduate of Pepperdine University School of Business and Management where she obtained her full-time MBA with several letters of recommendation from highly decorated professors.

    or

    B. A recent high school graduate with no references and no letters of recommendation who can't stop thinking about the wicked time he had at his senior prom and how Cindy Hughes looked SO HAWT in her blue dress. OMG!!!

    Do the math.
     
  6. gochi

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    Wow...many questions Carlton.

    From what I recall, most of what I learned from the pre-reqs was simply a repitition of high school science with slightly higher difficulty, therefore some high school student should be allowed to go directly into Optometry school. If you did not excel in sciences during high school, then I think college would be adequate.

    The question which you have asked is synonoumous to this: Would you hire a graduate of OD school, or a student in his/her first year of OD school ?Ofcourse your gonna hire the one who has an actual degree, because he/she will provide efficiency while the high schooler would assumedly provide deficiency. Your question is really not representative of the topic at hand.

    A more proper question would be:Would you hire someone who went through undergrad and graduated od school, or someone who just graduated od school straight out of high school ? Well, does it make a difference ? Nope.
     
  7. JeffChou

    JeffChou Your mom goes to college
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    Gochi, please forgive my difficulty in understanding your point. You decry high school's efficacy in preparing students for college as "BS" (I'm assuming you mean bull feces, not Bachelor of Science). From what I recall, "most of what [you] learned from the pre-reqs was simply a repitition of high school science with slightly higher difficulty." So was this understanding of high school science something you learned during high school which prepared you for college when you learned it a tad more in depth, or were you precociously imbued with this understanding of high school level science before you hit puberty?

    I agree that SOME of "college is memorizing bs which you will never use actively during your lifespan," but that's not ALL college is. Regarding your two reasons for high schoolers not to go into optometry directly: your first reason has no substance, it says nothing about high school diplomas being sufficient/insufficient to go into optometry. Your second reason is that because "pharm/dent/med/vet/pod/aud/therp," has the system of pre-reqs/undegraduate degree requirements, OD programs have the same requirements. I disagree. I think OD programs have prerequisite and undergraduate degree requirements because the optometry and optometry programs have developed from a artisan trade to a licensed primary vision care profession and that these requirements were slowly added as the demands of licensing/breadth of education advanced. And speaking of advancing, it seems that America/Canada's "******ed" education system has done quite well in producing fine health professionals. Just because some countries graduate doctors and optometrists in half the time as North American schools do, doesn't mean that they accomplish the same education in that amount of time. There's a reason optometry grew from a 2 week certificate, to a 1 year program, to a bachelors degree, to the doctorate degree it is currently, and that is because of our advancing knowledge about the visual system.


    Perhaps you are trying to be the devils advocate, so I will concede the point that there are a select few people who do have the acumen to make it through college without a high school education--and, that there are also a select few who can get by in optometry school without a college education. I'm going to venture and guess that there are very few people who think that we should breed ODs--or MDs/DDSs/PharmDs/DPMs/AUDs/etc. for that matter--from anyone who can just get by.
    Optometry schools are not going to remove the pre-req requirements because they like to gauge how well the student will do academically and want to make sure that students have the background necessary to handle the material.

    The question you proposed in response to Carlton Banks's has an obvious answer. Of course we have faith in the licensing of ODs and should say that we will hire any OD so long as they have passed the boards and licensing. It is NOT, however, the topic at hand. The topic is whether or not high school students should be allowed to apply directly to optometry school, and I suppose to be fair to the geniuses who already know high school science and can study slightly harder to compensate for the moderately more difficult college curriculum they will have missed out on, OD schools could accept applications from them. Who wouldn't want to be colleagues with Doogie Howser (not relevant)? Does a college education (or pre-requisites) make a difference in readiness and likelihood to complete the OD program? Ask the admissions committee.
     
    #7 JeffChou, Jun 5, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008
  8. gochi

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    Well, I do admit there were new concepts, but they were not difficult at all. One could pick-up "x" for dummies and learn from there and these concepets relied on basic math.

    The North American school system, or whatever you want to call it is absolutley BS. Even if you go to the UK, you can become an Optometrist right out of highschool. Its funny you say this, "There's a reason optometry grew from a 2 week certificate, to a 1 year program, to a bachelors degree, to the doctorate degree it is currently, and that is because of our advancing knowledge about the visual system." How the hell is 90 credits of music courses going to help me with the "advancing" visual system ? It won't.

    So the Admissions Comitee wants to see how "well the student will do academically and want to make sure that students have the background necessary to handle the material." Well, there pretty stupid considering that someone who had just failed Optometry school, had an above average gpa and oat score.

    "Does a college education (or pre-requisites) make a difference in readiness and likelihood to complete the OD program? Ask the admissions committee."

    Even if they say it does, I still would not give damn. Ive already proved that they are wrong.
     
    #8 gochi, Jun 5, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008
  9. SarahNC

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    College is about more than taking courses. It seems to me though that you missed the part about growing up that the rest of us experienced. The way you speak on this forum is embarrassing.:thumbdown:
     
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  10. gochi

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    :laugh:

    No its not...college is only about taking courses. I dont know what free ride you were on.

    I like the way I speak on these forums, and if you feel that its embarrassing, then perhaps you should just log-out. Afterall, no one was asking for your irrelavent opinion.
     
  11. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks the real fresh prince
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    could it be mupreopt in disguise??
     
  12. gochi

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    Heck no. This is the 100% authentic gochi.
     
  13. Penguin2012

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    Hey all, here is a tip that will save you time, when you read the name gochi as the author of a post. Just do what I do and ignore it.

    Learning to dissect the important things to read is a critical skill in optometry school when you are inundated with mass loads of information. :D
     
  14. JeffChou

    JeffChou Your mom goes to college
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    You've only proven that the admissions committees are not 100% accurate in assessing readiness and potential in students for completion of the OD program. How do you address the consistent majority of students accepted by current methods who DO complete the OD program? I think given the low percentage of students who don't get their OD, the most strongly supported answer to my question is "yes." And my conclusion is that yes, the college education makes a difference in readiness and likelihood to complete the OD program but will concede a couple of shortcomings (like some students learned to do in their science lab reports). Although there is a strong correlation between college and OD success, the admissions committee is not 100% accurate in predicting success and possible sources of error may have arisen from the personal circumstances surrounding each student or misinterpreted application information. Critics will say that this is an unfair assessment and that there should be a larger control group oh straight out of high school applicants, but my research has regrettably not been able to incorporate such figures although it would be intriguing to hear of some empirical data with this focus.

    Maybe it bothers only me, but could you cut down on your habit of arguing your point and criticizing ideas and other forum members with words like "stupid," "BS" and the like? It's not that I'm a conservative soapmouth, but it's just so hard to see your point. "Stupid" is just too vague if your intention is to logically argue specific points.
     
  15. Habitual Rx

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    Free ride... you mean life, right?

    If taking courses is what college/university is about I must have been riding that free train for the last four years of my life... well good thing I have four more years of "course taking" ahead of me.

    College is a life experience that is about many different things, not simply taking courses. If it was simply taking courses, we would all be a disgruntled troll like you.

    :laugh:
     
  16. lovelydisaster

    lovelydisaster UHCO c/o 2014
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    Wrd UP. :thumbup:
     
  17. panzer general

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    That is pretty F**KED UP! High schoolers thinking they can jump into optometry school? That would mean, based on some optometry schools that let 1st years see patients, that they would be seeing patients a year after graduating from high school.
     
  18. gochi

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    Good...I would not want opinions from those of you who are adherent, and therefore idiotic. :D
     
    #18 gochi, Jun 6, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2008
  19. gochi

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    There is no correlation between college and OD success. This is utter BS.

    The reason why I use those words is due to me being shocked at how many people really do belive that the primary way is the only way.

    Alright, the admissions committee is not stupid but they are individuals who replicate the actions of a rangatang. This I hope isnt vague.

    I have already prooved that college is BS....the only reason pre-opts have to go to college is because the other disciplines require it aswell. However this is due to the pathetic North American education system and not optometry itself.
     
  20. gochi

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    Now, when was I talking to you ? :laugh:

    Wow...you obviously did not understand the implicit. But this is assumed I guess. I really hope you understand what I mean, otherwise the admissions committee made yet another mistake!

    I am not a troll, nor am I disgruntled. I just hate it when many people, such as yourself, get into Optometry school or any other helth care profession despite their moronity.

    Optometry school's should raise there standards, otherwise soon to be docs such as this poster along with some of the others which I have quoted, will actually be asking "one or two" before the examination is finsihed.
     
    #20 gochi, Jun 6, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2008
  21. Habitual Rx

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    As far as I know, this is an open forum.

    Yes, three admissions committees did make mistakes. I understand that college is just a structured course load. But there are many other experiences that one will partake in while also taking courses when enrolled in college. It is not all course work. If it was, every single person at my University did it wrong.

    I beg to differ on the disgruntled part. It seems you're pretty angry in general.

    Differential opinions do not imply that another is moronic. Only morons would make assumptions based on a single reply to an angred response. (Unless that assumption is that the other person is a troll).

    Have you "finsihed" optometry school? If so, where did you attend? If not, where are you attending? (I'm looking for sustainable evidence you are not a troll).

    Reply! I'm excited to read your insight.
     
  22. Habitual Rx

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    I also realized you had edited that post... nice one, mate.
     
  23. gochi

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    Who are you to determine what people did is right or wrong ? College is all course work, if it is not, prove me wrong. Really, everyone here is bull****ting about oh you get life experiences and whatnot...thats all crap you can throw away. Only fools would use that in an argument. Its pathetic, and getting quite disgusting. I gotta say though, mostly everyone here sounds like elementary school girls.

    Uhh Im not angry...that was never implied in the post. Though, I will say that when people do act stupid, I do get somewhat irritated as I have to reply again. Its like explaining algebra to a student in grade 3.

    Honestly, I called you a moron because you did not understand what I said, yet you replied for some odd reason. And the funny part, believe it or not, is that the statement was not directed towards you. Next time, know what the other person is talking about before replying.

    Me attending optometry school has nothing to do with me being right/wrong on the idea of high school students being able to go directly to Optometry school.

    Also, you can quit acting like a child now(refering to bold). Its quite hysterical...qwopty99 knows what Im talking about. :D
     
    #23 gochi, Jun 6, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2008
  24. gochi

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    Yea...I had forgotten to insert the adjectives to describe what I thought of you, mate. :)
     
    #24 gochi, Jun 6, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2008
  25. AwesomeSauce

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    YES IT DOES. If you arn't in optometry school or have not completed optometry school, you have no basis to make such statments. Optometry school is so much harder then undergrad, a highschool student would never survive. You have no ****ing clue what you are talking about.
     
  26. JMU07

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    I'm assuming you mean "an orangutan"... since I'm not really sure what a "rangatang" is

    gochi, all you do on these forums is bitch and complain like you have something to prove... what is your deal? Did you have some sort of terrible experience or something?
     
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  27. gochi

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    Maybe you can go ahead and give your speech to all the other poster who are not in Optometry school. Im sure the reply count would be reduced by 50%
     
  28. gochi

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    Wow.

    I'm glad your not a psychologist, because like many others you are wrong.

    What is your deal ? All you seem to do is ask irrelevant and child-like questions.

    Again, why do you people reply if you have nothing constructive to say ?
     
  29. seminolefish

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    Gochi, I love you man. I hope you find a rewarding career in optometry like other people on this board. Stop arguing about trivial things. Are you in optometry school? If so, great I hope you pass all of your classes. If you don't pass and you were an undergrad....maybe it is really tough. In all reality I think it depends on what classes you take in undergrad. If you challenge yourself and major in biochemistry per say and not an easy way out (exercise science) or not even get your degree, you'll be fine. No offense, but I've seen so many exercise science majors taking INTRO to organic and INTRO to biochem and think they'll be prepared for opto school. In my opinion though, there is no way a high school grad should go straight into optometry school. If your high school IS a college, then crap maybe you do know your stuff. I was pretty challenged taking all the chemistry classes offered and lots of bio, physics, and calc.
     
  30. gochi

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    The reason why I believe that high school students should be allowed directly to optometry school is because of the similarity of the pre-reqs and the ap high school courses. All my hs science courses were ap, and when I took them in college, it was essentially the same...I don't get why the admissions committee would think that taking an additional 90 credits in music classes would help. Or 90 credits in Chemistry etc.

    Sure there are intangible's to attending college, but thats a huge assumption to make when you consider the money and time spent during those four years.

    I mean...you guys are talking about how you get experience and stuff, but what the heck was a I doing from kindergarten to high school ?
     
  31. sportvision

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    the reason is that you need time to absorb some of the concepts. Sure a lot of high school students take AP classes, but how many actually passed the AP tests with a 4 or 5? 1 year of high school is like 1 semester in college. Very few people can grasp a difficult concept the first time around. you need to have a solid foundation before you can go on. So a lot of people would need a few yrs in college to develop a solid foundation. Yeh there's probably a few student (very few) that can make that transition and they can chose place out of those classes if they want.

    ...haha what were you doing from k-12? did you get 5s on all your AP tests. if you did then you probably are wasting your time retaking those classes again in college. If not, then you can use couple years to develop those concepts again.
     
  32. jefguth

    jefguth Senior Member
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    So why then was your GPA in the toilet, didn't you already cover the material in AP?
     
  33. gochi

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    Well, thats true I guess...but honestly, the stuff in intro classes is not difficult at all.

    I just think there should be an option for students to go right into Optometry after high school, even if there are only a few, and saying that theres more to college then taking courses as an argument is utter bull****.
     
  34. gochi

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    Attendance, and other stuff immature students do.
     
  35. jefguth

    jefguth Senior Member
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    If college is such a waste of time and exactly the same as the AP credits you took in high school don't you think you could have waltzed right through it without ever attending class - I mean you already learned it once before?
     
  36. Habitual Rx

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    See: Campus bar.
     
  37. jc812

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    All coursework and readiness aside,
    I think that it was be obsurd if a 17 yr old can enter OD school and graduate at the age of 20-21.
     
  38. mmd2jSCO

    mmd2jSCO Future OD
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    Ok, this has all been pretty amusing.. but gochi didn't you just contradict yourself by saying your GPA was in the toilet because of "Attendance, and other stuff immature students do"? Wouldn't you assume that anyone fresh out of highschool is going to be immature? Atleast in the sense that they will want to skip class sometimes? Hey if nothing else college teaches you to get that out of your system right? If you can get through Optometry school skipping class let us know..
     
  39. Jay12

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    IMHO..........many student believe they have everything figured out (i.e. career wise) when having graduated from high school and perhaps the first few years of undergraduate.....only to realize midway through university that they have had a change of heart................

    So I believe it is truly a maturation process........
     
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  40. audreyhepburn

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    I don't mean to intrude on the pre-optometry forum, as I am pre-vet, but I stumble upon this discussion and got caught up in it. I will be attending vet school in scotland this fall and have read alot about their school system. It is true that vet/med (and optometry) students are accepted right out of high school, however this is completely different than an american student getting accepted right out of high school.

    In the UK highschools have different "levels" (for lack of a better word) of classes they are called A levels, B levels etc. A level classes are more equivalent to our AP classes or lower level college classes. It is difficult to get into these classes, and then in order to get accepted into vet/med school you have to do really well. If the student does not do well in A level or is unable to take them all together, then he/she must take courses in college before applying or I think even an extra year of "high school".

    Once you are accepted, the programs are five to six years, the first one to two years mostly being more pre-reqs, obviously focused on what you are studying (one of the books I need for my first year I already have from a bio class I took my senior year of college).

    I will admit that most of this information is for vet/med students and it is a simplification of their system (it seems to get complicated sometimes). That being said, I thought some might be interested, if not sorry for the long post.

    I am also not in any way saying one school system is better than the other, just supplying information. :)
     

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