Hispanic/Latino Applicant Advantage?

[AktionPOTENTIAL]

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Umm...how dare you? We disagree about a lot of things on SDN, but usually the debate doesn't devolve into name-calling and accusations. According to you, now suddenly everyone who opposes AA is a racist? And I bet you pride yourself on being open-minded. 🙄

You have exposed many things about yourself with this response that expresses your volatile nature but fails to address this polarizing issue. When you said "we," to whom are you referring? You should be a politician if you are seeking to represent masses of people you don't know.

Now, I read the URMs threads extensively before I decided to post. A common theme emerged where it was evident some posters were making conscious efforts to hide the underlying reason they felt the way the did towards efforts to expand access to minorities. They questioned their qualifications, often stating how undeserving they were of admissions. It's extremely hard to read at times. So I called it as it is, something many observers thought of, but refused to do because they don't want to hear ramblings from non-entities like you.

I stand by comments; I can verify them with numerous examples while you give your endorsements to someone else, Sarah Palin I suggest.

 

[NickNaylor]

I love how you people consider everything and anything racism. 10 slots out of 100 is not a small fraction for people who have really put hard work in. ADCOMS should be looking to ensure that the next wave of physicians have the quality of great physicians, not for diversity for the sake of diversity. It is unreal that people will accept the idea of AA and it is unreal that this is still occurring in this year.

I'm assuming you're trolling, but regardless, this argument relies on the premise that test scores is what makes "great physicians." News flash: they don't.

(sent from my phone)

 

[ZoakRoak]

I'm assuming you're trolling, but regardless, this argument relies on the premise that test scores is what makes "great physicians." News flash: they don't.

(sent from my phone)

Newsflash, neither does diversity.

Newsflash, people are admitted based on those test scores and everyone should equally be held to the same standards.

 

[NickNaylor]

Newsflash, neither does diversity.

Newsflash, people are admitted based on those test scores and everyone should equally be held to the same standards.

News flash, the URM program is not purposed to produce "great physicians" - its purpose is to train physicians that are more likely to work in communities that traditionally have been neglected by the (predominantly white) medical establishment.

(sent from my phone)

 

[MusicJunkie]

News flash, the URM program is not purposed to produce "great physicians" - its purpose is to train physicians that are more likely to work in communities that traditionally have been neglected by the (predominantly white) medical establishment.

(sent from my phone)

👍

NickNaylor is making this thread.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

...and when I thought this thread couldn't be more ridiculous.


It's absurd that accusations of racism are taken more seriously than actual racist comments themselves.

 

[tn4596]

News flash, the URM program is not purposed to produce "great physicians" - its purpose is to train physicians that are more likely to work in communities that traditionally have been neglected by the (predominantly white) medical establishment.

(sent from my phone)

But you are the one that brought up the: test scores make "great physician" point!!! Anyway, I think we all just want our future colleagues to be competent and dedicated. At my current job, we do lots of teamworks and nothing rustle my jimmy more than a incompetent coworker.
Man this topic never fail to get more than 100 replies. I used to be so irritated because how unfair this process is; but then I got an acceptance....

 

[NickNaylor]

But you are the one that brought up the: test scores make "great physician" point!!! Anyway, I think we all just want our future colleagues to be competent and dedicated. At my current job, we do lots of teamworks and nothing rustle my jimmy more than a incompetent coworker.
Man this topic never fail to get more than 100 replies. I used to be so irritated because how unfair this process is; but then I got an acceptance....

How else do you distinguish between the races? My guess is that people aren't too upset about those pesky URMs that get accepted with 25% less shadowing hours than themselves. You're kidding yourself if people are bitching about anything BUT the numbers. There have also been a couple of people in this thread that have basically said as much.

(sent from my phone)

 

[Silo004]

But you are the one that brought up the: test scores make "great physician" point!!! Anyway, I think we all just want our future colleagues to be competent and dedicated. At my current job, we do lots of teamworks and nothing rustle my jimmy more than a incompetent coworker.

Not that it matters too much, but you complain a lot for someone whose command of the English language is so tenuous. 😉

 

[MedPR]

But you are the one that brought up the: test scores make "great physician" point!!! Anyway, I think we all just want our future colleagues to be competent and dedicated. At my current job, we do lots of teamworks and nothing rustle my jimmy more than a incompetent coworker.
Man this topic never fail to get more than 100 replies. I used to be so irritated because how unfair this process is; but then I got an acceptance....

If you are a top applicant you don't have to worry about unfairness in the process. If you put yourself in a position to be passed over by adcoms that's your own doing.

 

[touchpause13]

...and when I thought this thread couldn't be more ridiculous.


It's absurd that accusations of racism are taken more seriously than actual racist comments themselves.

U read my mind

Sent from my SCH-I405 using SDN Mobile

 

[NickNaylor]

If you are a top applicant you don't have to worry about unfairness in the process. If you put yourself in a position to be passed over by adcoms that's your own doing.

Yup, another good point. There's a good piece of irony about people that complain about URMs "stealing" spots not realizing that they were supposedly passed up in favor of an applicant that has inferior stats. That really says something about the quality of their own app.

(sent from my phone)

 

[ZoakRoak]

If you are a top applicant you don't have to worry about unfairness in the process. If you put yourself in a position to be passed over by adcoms that's your own doing.

Not true at all. At the end of the day, people are being discriminated against because they are not of a chosen race, period.

 

[ZoakRoak]

Yup, another good point. There's a good piece of irony about people that complain about URMs "stealing" spots not realizing that they were supposedly passed up in favor of an applicant that has inferior stats. That really says something about the quality of their own app.

(sent from my phone)

You and others like brushing off these others and like most on the left, call everything racist. You instead chalk it up to someone being angry or jealous. Again, you miss the core of the complaint and refuse to acknowledge that the entire policy is being based on the ethnicity of someone.

 

[NickNaylor]

You and others like brushing off these others and like most on the left, call everything racist. You instead chalk it up to someone being angry or jealous. Again, you miss the core of the complaint and refuse to acknowledge that the entire policy is being based on the ethnicity of someone.

Well, I'm extremely conservative politically, but ok. And I have absolutely acknowledged that earlier in the thread. The URM program is discriminatory. But frankly I think that's a small price to pay to attempt to train a physician workforce that is more able to treat the people that need them.

(sent from my phone)

 

[MedPR]

Not true at all. At the end of the day, people are being discriminated against because they are not of a chosen race, period.

A URM with a 3.5/28 isn't taking a spot from a white kid with a 4.0/40. Why aren't you complaining about the ORMs who get in with below average stats?

 

[tn4596]

Not that it matters too much, but you complain a lot for someone whose command of the English language is so tenuous. 😉

Complain a lot? Okay...You cray

 

[ZoakRoak]

A URM with a 3.5/28 isn't taking a spot from a white kid with a 4.0/40. Why aren't you complaining about the ORMs who get in with below average stats?

And how exactly do you know the exact criteria on which they are dismissing other viable candidates? How many ADCOMs are you part of? It is not uncommon for even a trade company to be forced on a government job to HAVE to hire a variable number of people just because. What makes you so sure exactly that something similar isn't happening here again?

 

[ZoakRoak]

Well, I'm extremely conservative politically, but ok. And I have absolutely acknowledged that earlier in the thread. The URM program is discriminatory. But frankly I think that's a small price to pay to attempt to train a physician workforce that is more able to treat the people that need them.

(sent from my phone)

Please provide me honestly with proof or stats that at least 60 percent are moving back into their neighborhoods and practicing there.

 

[Ashley1989]

Newsflash, neither does diversity.

Newsflash, people are admitted based on those test scores and everyone should equally be held to the same standards.

With this kind of thinking, just standardize everything and you get in on your GPA and MCAT alone. Then, depending on how high you score depends on what school you go to. That way it's cut and dry fair to everyone. Forget diversity, ECs, hobbies, personality, serving an ever diversifying pool of patients, etc.

 

[touchpause13]

Not true at all. At the end of the day, people are being discriminated against because they are not of a chosen race, period.

 

[ZoakRoak]

With this kind of thinking, just standardize everything and you get in on your GPA and MCAT alone. Then, depending on how high you score depends on what school you go to. That way it's cut and dry fair to everyone. Forget diversity, ECs, hobbies, personality, serving an ever diversifying pool of patients, etc.

Somehow, you've equated an argument about keeping race out of the picture with somehow excluding independent activities and traits which have nothing to do with ethnicity. Makes complete sense and the connections you have made are astounding.

 

[Silo004]

With this kind of thinking, just standardize everything and you get in on your GPA and MCAT alone. Then, depending on how high you score depends on what school you go to. That way it's cut and dry fair to everyone. Forget diversity, ECs, hobbies, personality, serving an ever diversifying pool of patients, etc.

The funny part about it is, the people complaining still don't get in if that were the case.

 

[ZoakRoak]

The funny part about it is, the people complaining still don't get in if that were the case.

Again, what ADCOMs are you part of? Can you provide a transcript of what you guys were talking about at the last cycle?

 

[AktionPOTENTIAL]

Not that it matters too much, but you complain a lot for someone whose command of the English language is so tenuous. 😉

👍👍

If you are a top applicant you don't have to worry about unfairness in the process. If you put yourself in a position to be passed over by adcoms that's your own doing.

👍👍

Not true at all. At the end of the day, people are being discriminated against because they are not of a chosen race, period.

Now go ahead and wipe your mouth with tissue; did you get all of it? No, there's still some in left corner.

 

[Ashley1989]

Somehow, you've equated an argument about keeping race out of the picture with somehow excluding independent activities and traits which have nothing to do with ethnicity. Makes complete sense and the connections you have made are astounding.

Oh get off it. Don't you think our race and ethnicity has a direct impact on our "independent" hobbies and activities? It all boils down to the culture we were raised in and what we were brought up knowing.

 

[NickNaylor]

Please provide me honestly with proof or stats that at least 60 percent are moving back into their neighborhoods and practicing there.

Why don't you find it yourself if it exists? I'm not your secretary. Results are irrelevant. I never said anything about the quality of the program or if it is effective.

(sent from my phone)

 

[MedPR]

And how exactly do you know the exact criteria on which they are dismissing other viable candidates? How many ADCOMs are you part of? It is not uncommon for even a trade company to be forced on a government job to HAVE to hire a variable number of people just because. What makes you so sure exactly that something similar isn't happening here again?

So why aren't you crying about ORMs matriculating with low stats?

 

[ZoakRoak]

So why aren't you crying about ORMs matriculating with low stats?

Please clarify as usually ORM is referring to Asian students who are also unfairly excluded.

 

[MedPR]

Please clarify as usually ORM is referring to Asian students who are also unfairly excluded.

ORMs are basically whites and asians. Many of them get in every year with below average stats.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[compgirl]

You have exposed many things about yourself with this response that expresses your volatile nature but fails to address this polarizing issue. When you said "we," to whom are you referring? You should be a politician if you are seeking to represent masses of people you don't know.

Now, I read the URMs threads extensively before I decided to post. A common theme emerged where it was evident some posters were making conscious efforts to hide the underlying reason they felt the way the did towards efforts to expand access to minorities. They questioned their qualifications, often stating how undeserving they were of admissions. It's extremely hard to read at times. So I called it as it is, something many observers thought of, but refused to do because they don't want to hear ramblings from non-entities like you.

I stand by comments; I can verify them with numerous examples while you give your endorsements to someone else, Sarah Palin I suggest.

Your arrogance and rudeness are shining through brightly I see. By, "we," I simply meant anyone who posts on SDN. Get it?

I'm volatile? I'm not the one blanket-labeling people as racists with no reasonable basis. Go ahead and play the race card and accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a racist. We'll see how far that gets you.

As far as your last statement is concerned, I have the same opinion of you as I do of Ms. Palin. I'll leave it up to you to figure out what that is.

 

[ZoakRoak]

ORMs are basically whites and asians. Many of them get in every year with below average stats.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Seems the opposite from what I have read in that there are actually determined caps in place so that too many Asians do not reach past a certain percentage for a particular school.

 

[MedPR]

Seems the opposite from what I have read in that there are actually determined caps in place so that too many Asians do not reach past a certain percentage for a particular school.

Are you going to answer the question or not? AAMC published data shows ORMs accepted with low stats. Why are you only complaining about URMs?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[compgirl]

Provide me honestly with proof or stats that at least 60 percent of URMs that are getting in to schools and takin yer spots with their crappy stats and undeserving applications don't have better ECs, personalities or experiences than you do.

No, the burden of proof is on you. There is no reason to assume that URM's have higher quality EC's than non-URMs. This is where your argument falls apart - there is absolutely no evidence of this, so there is nothing to compensate for the lower stats on average.

 

[compgirl]

ORMs are basically whites and asians. Many of them get in every year with below average stats.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Do you know what the M stands for in ORM?

 

[ZoakRoak]

Are you going to answer the question or not? AAMC published data shows ORMs accepted with low stats. Why are you only complaining about URMs?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

You brought a random argument into a discussion primarily about URM. I don't know how to answer you other than typing into google "ORM Asian Bias" tells a very different story with multitudes of experiences and statements to the contrary.

 

[MedPR]

Do you know what the M stands for in ORM?

medicine.. Do you?

 

[MedPR]

You brought a random argument into a discussion primarily about URM. I don't know how to answer you other than typing into google "ORM Asian Bias" tells a very different story with multitudes of experiences and statements to the contrary.

Ok so you can't answer the question because you're a racist hating on URMs.

 

[touchpause13]

medicine.. Do you?

lulz

 

[compgirl]

medicine.. Do you?

Pretty sure it stands for minority.

 

[ZoakRoak]

Ok so you can't answer the question because you're a racist hating on URMs.

When in doubt, call someone a racist.

 

[MedPR]

Pretty sure it stands for minority.

Go away you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[compgirl]

Ok so you can't answer the question because you're a racist hating on URMs.

And we have our 2nd accusation of racism in this thread, ladies and gentleman. Shall we go for 3?

 

[MedPR]

When in doubt, call someone a racist.

You're complaining that URMs get in with low stats. Yet you aren't complaining that ORMs get in with low stats too. Complaining about minorities while letting non-minorities slide? That's pretty much the definition of racism.

 

[compgirl]

Go away you have no idea what you're talking about.

More arrogance and dismissal from the "open-minded" group. What a surprise.

 

[compgirl]

You're complaining that URMs get in with low stats. Yet you aren't complaining that ORMs get in with low stats too. Complaining about minorities while letting non-minorities slide? That's pretty much the definition of racism.

No, URM's are accepted at a disproportionate rate relative to non-URM's for a given app. It's not the number; it's the %.

 

[ZoakRoak]

You're complaining that URMs get in with low stats. Yet you aren't complaining that ORMs get in with low stats too. Complaining about minorities while letting non-minorities slide? That's pretty much the definition of racism.

You just went from A to C in order to fit your narrative that everyone is racist. I literally stated that I as unfamiliar with what you were describing in relation to ORMs except for countless articles displaying a clear sign of reverse discrimination. I guess, somehow, these all connect in a magic land to somehow point to racism.

 

[compgirl]

You just went from A to C in order to fit your narrative that everyone is racist. I literally stated that I as unfamiliar with what you were describing in relation to ORMs except for countless articles displaying a clear sign of reverse discrimination. I guess, somehow, these all connect in a magic land to somehow point to racism.

👍👍👍

 

[Ashley1989]

You just went from A to C in order to fit your narrative that everyone is racist. I literally stated that I as unfamiliar with what you were describing in relation to ORMs except for countless articles displaying a clear sign of reverse discrimination. I guess, somehow, these all connect in a magic land to somehow point to racism.

He's not saying everyone is racist, just you

 

[MedPR]

More arrogance and dismissal from the "open-minded" group. What a surprise.

You really think "ORM" is short for "over represented minority"?

You just went from A to C in order to fit your narrative that everyone is racist. I literally stated that I as unfamiliar with what you were describing in relation to ORMs except for countless articles displaying a clear sign of reverse discrimination. I guess, somehow, these all connect in a magic land to somehow point to racism.

Not everyone is racist. Just you.