HMS (pathways) vs Umich

[user76312803]

Appreciate any input here. For additional context, I'm preliminarily interested in neurology and psychiatry, but am by no means set on either of those -- I could just as easily see myself ending up in a surgical subspecialty. Keen on getting involved in research early and am very open to taking a research year, but my research interests are broad and I'm not yet sure what type of research will best suit my lifestyle while in school. I intend for research to be a part of my career in the future, but my priority will be my work as a clinician. I'm potentially interested in getting involved in health policy at some point. I'm very interested in pursuing global health opportunities while in school. I already have debt from undergrad -- nearly 80k in private loans with ugly interest rates and 20k in federal loans (please don't pass judgement here, it's a long story). My parents have a high-ish income, but have not and will not contribute financially to my education. I have a long term (3yr) partner who will be moving with me to wherever I matriculate, although not immediately (likely 6 months to a yr of LDR)

HMS
Pros

• Flipped classroom structure and collaborative case-based learning appeals to me
• P/F preclinical AND clinical years
• Dual degree opportunities are plentiful and easy to get involved with. Many MD only students end up as MD-PhD, which I'm quite interested in
• I love Boston and have several close friends here and on the east coast generally. I'm keen on living in a big city for a while as I never have before
• Attended 2nd look and vibes were great. Met a lot of people who I could see myself being very close with. For the most part, current students seemed very relaxed and non-gunnerish
• Research opportunities beyond my wildest dreams
• Great chance of matching at HMS-affiliated hospital OR back home in Michigan

Cons

• COA: about 300k over 4 yrs. Trying to negotiate with the FA office, but I'm not optimistic that they'll budge. So 400k-ish total debt when accounting for existing loans.
• Mandatory in-person lectures during preclinical phase beginning at 8am. Not that bad, but figured I'd toss it on here anyway

Umich
Pros

• Robust support for students pursuing global health opportunities with opportunity to pursue "path of excellence" in Global Health & Disparities
• Have a great network of mentors here
• Familiarity with Ann Arbor; did my undergrad here and really like the area
• Proximity to home; family lives approx 2.5 hrs drive away from Umich
• COA is slightly cheaper at around 210k

Cons

• Graded clerkships
• Have heard that the 1 year preclinical is quite stressful

Summary: There are likely many factors that I'm leaving out. I'm the first physician to-be in my family, so much of this is brand new to me. Would appreciate any feedback you all have.

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[chilly_md]

Moved to School X vs Y.

You will find that you will not be able to receive much advice if you do not provide your own personal pro and cons. From what you have shared, we don’t even know if the total cost being compared is 0 vs 90k or it’s more like 300 vs 390k.

 

[user76312803]

Moved to School X vs Y.

You will find that you will not be able to receive much advice if you do not provide your own personal pro and cons. From what you have shared, we don’t even know if the total cost being compared is 0 vs 90k or it’s more like 300 vs 390k.

My bad, Chilly. Editing now.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Yeah having a pros and cons list would be helpful. But I'd say it would depend on how much the total COA for both would be, what your financial situation is like, and what your goals are. If you're going for research heavy or competitive residencies in the East Coast or want to get into industry or policy, HMS match list and overall prestige outside of medicine is much better at that. And P/F clerkship years at HMS means you have less stress too. I keep hearing UMich students are more stressed than normal, not sure how true that is. Also, even though they're both 1 year pre-clinical, it is my understanding that there is more time at HMS for you to do other stuff because they have fewer mandatory 3rd and 4th year requirements.

 

[user76312803]

Yeah having a pros and cons list would be helpful. But I'd say it would depend on how much the total COA for both would be, what your financial situation is like, and what your goals are. If you're going for research heavy or competitive residencies in the East Coast or want to get into industry or policy, HMS match list and overall prestige outside of medicine is much better at that. And P/F clerkship years at HMS means you have less stress too. I keep hearing UMich students are more stressed than normal, not sure how true that is. Also, even though they're both 1 year pre-clinical, it is my understanding that there is more time at HMS for you to do other stuff because they have fewer mandatory 3rd and 4th year requirements.

Thanks for the reply. Total COA is about 213k for UM and 299k for HMS. While I'm not yet set on any one path, I would certainly like to keep the option of pursuing these more competitive residencies open to me. I anticipate having a pretty research-heavy app.

I've also been hearing that Umich students are pretty stressed with the condensed preclinical and graded clerkships. Second look days are this week so I'll try to talk to some students to gauge that sentiment.

If you don't mind me asking, how heavily would you weigh the total COA discrepancy as it currently stands?

 

[purplepea]

Also hear UMich's pre-clincal is a bit stressful, not sure why tho compared to other school. For me stress is my number 1 factor. Any schools that minimizes it wins for me.

 

[theoceanman]

HMS. P/F everything will absolutely be your saving grace and the COA is negligible for having the P/F throughout your 4 years. Also, the edge in prestige and your future endeavors will be quite nice as well. Props to you for a great cycle, cheers!

 

[user76312803]

HMS. P/F everything will absolutely be your saving grace and the COA is negligible for having the P/F throughout your 4 years. Also, the edge in prestige and your future endeavors will be quite nice as well. Props to you for a great cycle, cheers!

Cheers -- I appreciate the input! I agree that p/f everything is going to be huge. Props to you for what looks like it was a great cycle as well.

Easily HMS based on your pros/cons and relatively low difference in cost.

I would just chime in that from what I could gather it seemed like the flipped classroom and heavy mandatory parts of Harvard's preclinical made it a bit stressful/annoying. Some M3/4's I talked to also said that made it a bit hard to get involved in research early which led to a huge influx of research a bit later and difficulty separating yourself among the class (in regards to research achievements, which at HMS is pretty much all you have to compare aside from the graded subs/elective) and that seemed to be a reason a lot of HMS students need to take research years/5th years.

However, I've also heard UMich is generally stressful especially in clinical year which seems to be consistent with other things mentioned on this thread. So overall HMS still heavily wins in that realm.

Thanks for the input. I've also heard rumblings that many at HMS are not particularly fond of the flipped classroom model and mandatory in-person stuff. The concept of the flipped classroom has always appealed to me, though -- I've always learned best outside of the classroom using textbooks/videos and approaching things in my own way. I totally understand how the in-person requirements could make scheduling research and other extracurriculars challenging, but I'm already mentally prepared for the prospect of taking a 5th year, so it doesn't necessarily worry me too much. Ideally, I'd like to avoid as much stress as is feasible to avoid, and as you've pointed out, HMS edges umich there.

 

[deleted1095841]

Harvard!!!
P/F clerkships are a big deal. Much lower stress. Can focus on actually learning medicine instead of worrying whether you looked at someone wrong, or how to respond when your classmates bring cookies and cupcakes to their team (not kidding, a classmate on my team did this!)

 

[user76312803]

Harvard!!!
P/F clerkships are a big deal. Much lower stress. Can focus on actually learning medicine instead of worrying whether you looked at someone wrong, or how to respond when your classmates bring cookies and cupcakes to their team (not kidding, a classmate on my team did this!)

LOL -- I've always been very averse to unnecessary brownnosing, so it's good to know how prevalent that one-upper type of behavior actually is with graded clerkships. It seems like bringing cookies/cupcakes in to the clinic would be such a blatant attempt at getting a better eval -- did everyone kind of cringe when this happened?

 

[deleted1095841]

did everyone kind of cringe when this happened?

No they happily ate them, lol!
She probably got a better eval than me. But it's not just the snacks, there was also a lot of chemistry.

 

[deleted1065184]

No they happily ate them, lol!
She probably got a better eval than me. But it's not just the snacks, there was also a lot of chemistry.

My school has pass/fail clerkships and one of my classmates still brought homemade baked goods on the last day. But it wasn't being gunnery (wasnt going to help them, after all), they were just being kind. They were yummy, so I'm glad they brought them 🤣

 

[user76312803]

Hi all, just wanted to update that since posting this I've received a full tuition scholarship + 1/2 of the remaining COA scholarship at Umich and am now almost certainly heading there. If the financials were equal or even approximately equal, I'd attend HMS, but I can't confidently say that with my current career goals that going to HMS is worth the extra 200k in debt given current interest rates and the debt I already have. I reached out to HMS this morning to see if there was anything they could do in terms of coming up with a comparable offer, but there's a 0.00001% that happens, so -- Go Blue!