Honest opinions and facts about SGU

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Handsome88

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I have been accepted to SGU for the 2010 intake and I reserved my seat already.
But, now that registration is approaching fast, I need to decide whether I should really go there.

Please tell me:
What do you think of SGU?
Is there a catch?
Will I have good residencies (without having to study 12 hours a day) in US?
Will I have good residencies in Canada/Other countries (Europe, Australia, Middle East..etc)?
If I was Canadian (no american citizenship or green card), will I have a hard time finding residencies or do my clinicals in the US?
How long do I have to stay in Grenada?


You don't have to answer all the questions, just please tell me what you know. Thanks. :)

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I have been accepted to SGU for the 2010 intake and I reserved my seat already.
But, now that registration is approaching fast, I need to decide whether I should really go there.

Please tell me:
What do you think of SGU?

It is the most established and respected medical school in the Caribbean

Is there a catch?

What do you mean?

Will I have good residencies (without having to study 12 hours a day) in US?

Go to the SGU website and see for yourself what type of residencies people are getting. But things may change in the future. If you're worried about studying too much then perhaps med school is not for you.

Will I have good residencies in Canada/Other countries (Europe, Australia, Middle East..etc)?

SGU grads are all over the world, and an education from SGU is actually well recognized in many parts of the world.

If I was Canadian (no american citizenship or green card), will I have a hard time finding residencies or do my clinicals in the US?

You wont have a hard time doing clinicals, but you may be at a disadvantage if you are not a US citizen when applying for residency

How long do I have to stay in Grenada?

2 years

You don't have to answer all the questions, just please tell me what you know. Thanks. :)

Hope this helps
 
yep great answers by the above poster.

i am a 4th year SGU student currently applying to residencies. you'll have a much harder time getting a residency as a carib student than as a US student, even DO's have an easier time getting residencies, however, if you're canadian then the DO thing might not be an option.

like said above SGU is the oldest and most recognized caribbean school that caters to US and Candian students. So if you plan on going to the carib this is your best option, and name recognition means a lot.

There's no catch as long as you pass your classes and do well on your USMLE's you'll graduate and most likely match into some residency somewhere in the US, it might not be in the specialty that you want but at least you'll be a licensed doctor.

You will have to study many hours a day regardless of getting a good residency or not. medical school is hard and requires students to study many hours every day, if you don't have a great memory or are a slow reader then you might have to study 12 hours a day or even more. No one knows what will happen with residency placement, every year its getting harder and harder for foreign grads to get residencies in the US, this is because the number or residencies is staying about the same and the number of US grads is growing at a very fast rate, so in 4 or 5 years no one knows what will happen, it could easily be that the only residency you might be able to get is family medicine, internal medicine or pediatrics. don't count on going to SGU and becoming an ENT, dermatologist, Neurosurgeon, Orthopedic surgeon, Ophthamologist, Urologist, and it will be very very hard to become a radiologist, other specialties will also be hard but the ones listed first are almost impossible. So no one knows what will happen in 5 years but it will get much harder before it gets easier, and it's pretty hard to get a residency already.

It's almost impossible to get a residency in Canada because mainly in Canada the number of Canadian medical grads pretty much equals the number of Canadian residencies. there might be a few hundred left over, you'll be competeing with thousands of people for those couple of hundred residency spots. As for European Countries, there are a few SGU grads all over the world but they were probably citizens of those countries before getting their MD at SGU. from what I hear it's even harder to get a residency in Europe than in the US if you're a citizen of one of those countries. So don't count on being able to work in other countries besides the US.

if you're a canadian it's not a problem to get an education visa and do your rotations in the US however, getting a residency is a different story, and it will be considerably harder to get a residency when compared to a US citizen from SGU.

like stated above you spend your first 2 years (basic science years) in the carbibbean, but there are now other programs where you can spend part of that time in England.


for more info and to talk to more SGU students go to www.valuemd.com and look through the SGU forum.

Because you're a candian SGU might be the best option for you. if you were a US citizen then i would say apply to DO schools before going down the caribbean, if you got into SGU you should be able to get into a DO school and will have a much better chance of getting a residency after graduating.
 
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If I were to repeat the decision to go down to the Caribbean medical schools for my education, I would once again only apply to and attend SGU.

The school is young when compared to US medical institutions, however it is evolving in the appropriate manner; strong student body, strong support services for student, strong medical center rotations available, and excellent match candidates for 3+ decades. There is an established multi-specialty network of alumni from SGU that understand their role is to help those going into and coming out of SGU. TO the school's credit, one email to the counselors will produce a significant email list of doctors in your area -practicing doctors willing to mentor a prospective candidate.

As far as reputation, I feel that they have tried repeatedly to shed the generic caribbean rep of below average medical institutions. Have they been successful? You decide.

Look at the match results POSTED on their website. COMPARE these results with other TOP 3-4 carib schools and you will understand why I recommend it.
I will go out on a limb and say that IMO you can even compare SGU match results with a small handful of US medical schools (i.e 3rd tier US medical schools). No offense to those schools in my head, but SGU is working very hard to be competitive outside the caribbean, at the level of US medical schools. Cheers to them for trying.

I hope this evolution continues.

rlxdmd
SGUSOM '08
 
If I were to repeat the decision to go down to the Caribbean medical schools for my education, I would once again only apply to and attend SGU.

The school is young when compared to US medical institutions, however it is evolving in the appropriate manner; strong student body, strong support services for student, strong medical center rotations available, and excellent match candidates for 3+ decades. There is an established multi-specialty network of alumni from SGU that understand their role is to help those going into and coming out of SGU. TO the school's credit, one email to the counselors will produce a significant email list of doctors in your area -practicing doctors willing to mentor a prospective candidate.

As far as reputation, I feel that they have tried repeatedly to shed the generic caribbean rep of below average medical institutions. Have they been successful? You decide.

Look at the match results POSTED on their website. COMPARE these results with other TOP 3-4 carib schools and you will understand why I recommend it.
I will go out on a limb and say that IMO you can even compare SGU match results with a small handful of US medical schools (i.e 3rd tier US medical schools). No offense to those schools in my head, but SGU is working very hard to be competitive outside the caribbean, at the level of US medical schools. Cheers to them for trying.

I hope this evolution continues.

rlxdmd
SGUSOM '08

First of all, thank you all for the help and information!

But, I'm hearing that it is impossible to get good residencies (I wanted to go into derm), they are telling me that 95% of the time you are going to get a residency in either Pediatrics, family practice or internal medicine (and only in US, not in Canada). None of these are residencies I'm willing to do after all this time and money and effort. Surgery is possible but only if you have very high scores and they are saying that this will be even more rare in the future.
 
First of all, thank you all for the help and information!

But, I'm hearing that it is impossible to get good residencies (I wanted to go into derm), they are telling me that 95% of the time you are going to get a residency in either Pediatrics, family practice or internal medicine (and only in US, not in Canada). None of these are residencies I'm willing to do after all this time and money and effort. Surgery is possible but only if you have very high scores and they are saying that this will be even more rare in the future.

I am from Canada and have done some research on this...
1) If you are from Canada, basically just aim for family physician or IM.
2) There may be health care changes in the US in the next few years. This will make this even more difficult for non-american citizens to get good residencies
3) Also, remember that most of the posts that you read here are written by American citizens. Things are different for Canadian citizens b/c hospitals need to sponsor a visa and this makes things more challenging...

I am basically trying to improve my stats and will be applying again to US schools and hope I will get accepted there. Otherwise, I will go to SABA...
 
First of all, thank you all for the help and information!

But, I'm hearing that it is impossible to get good residencies (I wanted to go into derm), they are telling me that 95% of the time you are going to get a residency in either Pediatrics, family practice or internal medicine (and only in US, not in Canada). None of these are residencies I'm willing to do after all this time and money and effort. Surgery is possible but only if you have very high scores and they are saying that this will be even more rare in the future.

If it must be DERM, then here is my take.

Question for you:
1) Do you have a father or mother that is a dermatologist and an associate professor at a University program with a derm residency?
-Green Light: You can go to the big 3, rock the boards, do some research, and ask for your parent's assistance in acquiring a residency spot in derm as a carib grad.

If not then please avoid going to the Caribbean.

Instead use every dollar you would have ever spent on med school in the caribbean and play it in one single mega millions jackpot. I believe there's a better chance of winning that, then acquiring a derm spot by going to the caribbean.

Any statistics geeks want to figure out the odds?

A prospective applicant to any caribbean school gaining a derm spot
VS
A person that purchases 250,000 lottery tickets with as many random number pairings and wins the lottery (mega ball is 6 numbers???)

rlxdmd
 
Any statistics geeks want to figure out the odds?

A prospective applicant to any caribbean school gaining a derm spot
VS
A person that purchases 250,000 lottery tickets with as many random number pairings and wins the lottery (mega ball is 6 numbers???)

rlxdmd

Just for "fun", I looked at the 2009 match results. You can look this up in the "By state and by applicant" report which is separate from the main match results. It lists by state (not by program) how many spots were filled by US seniors, US MD's, DO's, 5th pathway, US IMG, and IMG's.

The total number of US IMG's matching into any derm program last year? One.

The chance of winning powerball is about 1:81 million. Hence, the chance of winning powerball buying 250,000 tickets (assuming no repeats) is 1:324

I think it's fair to say that neither is a good bet. However, I think it appears that winning powerball is actually the best statistical strategy, in this case.
 
Just for "fun", I looked at the 2009 match results. You can look this up in the "By state and by applicant" report which is separate from the main match results. It lists by state (not by program) how many spots were filled by US seniors, US MD's, DO's, 5th pathway, US IMG, and IMG's.

What fool thought they had to look at the state data to figure this out? It turns out it's Table 2 in the main match outcomes.

Oh wait....

Result is the same -- a single US IMG obtained a derm spot last year.
 
Hi aProgDirectory

Are you looking at this document? http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf

Because on page 5 it says that zero US IMGs and non-US IMGs matched into derm for 2009

but we also see 12 non-US IMGs matching into neurosurg. and 3 into ENT. There are also matches into Radiology (diagnostic) and Plastics.. Shouldn't the chances of a carib grad to match into these positions be higher than other non-US IMGs? or do you think the applicants who matched into these positions had something unusual that boosted their chances?

for instance.. if a non-US IMG got married to an American before the match (let's say during clinical years) and got the Green Card.. where do you think will he be categorized? (actually can this even happen if anybody knows? getting a greencard by marriage and bypassing the H1B req?)

thanks
 
I am looking on page 5

Zero IMG's / US IMG's matched into PGY-1 Derm -- but those are very rare. Scoll down to PGY-2 matches, at the bottom of the page and you'll see 1 US IMG and 7 IMG's matching in derm.

As for the comment of US IMG vs other IMG, I expect that the non-US IMG's were much more competitive than their US counterparts -- higher board scores, better research. They are often the "cream of the crop" from their countries. They may have been in the US doing research for years to earn a spot. So, no, I do not think that carib grads would have a better chance to get these spots. Remember that there are 1000's of IMG's and only a few get these spots -- their chances are almost as low as carib students.

As for your last question, I doubt that their visa status has much to do with anything. Yes, not needing a visa can be a plus for IMG's, but when you're looking at Derm/Rads/Ortho etc, those programs are looking for clinical/research excellence more than visa issues. In programs that take all IMG's, visa issues become a very big deal.

And, yes, if you marry a US Cit and get a GC through marriage, then you would not need a visa. However, it's not like you can marry someone and get a GC the next day, and you need to be careful you don't trip the "marriage of convenience" alarm.
 
Much Respect: I ask for numbers and I got them! Thanks for the search aprogdirector.

I knew I should have refinanced the house to buy a quarter million in lottery tickets last year.

If pre-med students take the time to go through the available resources and share their thoughts on these forums, I believe more prospective students would make educated informed decisions before entering the carib track. As it has been described, I can safely say its nearly impossible to get Derm from the caribbean schools.

Regarding plastic surgery: one guy, UNO! got an integrated plastics spot from SGU in this decade. Thats the only ONE I have ever heard of from the carib schools. I wish I could find the link to share with everyone.

rlxdmd
 
Just for "fun", I looked at the 2009 match results. You can look this up in the "By state and by applicant" report which is separate from the main match results. It lists by state (not by program) how many spots were filled by US seniors, US MD's, DO's, 5th pathway, US IMG, and IMG's.

The total number of US IMG's matching into any derm program last year? One.

The chance of winning powerball is about 1:81 million. Hence, the chance of winning powerball buying 250,000 tickets (assuming no repeats) is 1:324

I think it's fair to say that neither is a good bet. However, I think it appears that winning powerball is actually the best statistical strategy, in this case.

Yea its practically impossible to get a derm match...
What about Surgery/Emergency Medicine/Anesthesiology... I know that about 65% of the matches are either family practice/IM/Pediatrics, but then again... a lot of SGU students have low GPA's and MCATs in their undergrad years and so I'm assuming they don't do that well on USMLE. For myself I'm a little above average in terms of GPA. So Will I be able to get a match for surgery/emergency medicine/Anesthesiology if I do reasonably well on the USMLE? What do you think the scores are for these matches from SGU?
 
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Yea its practically impossible to get a derm match...
What about Surgery/Emergency Medicine/Anesthesiology... I know that about 65% of the matches are either family practice/IM/Pediatrics, but then again... a lot of SGU students have low GPA's and MCATs in their undergrad years and so I'm assuming they don't do that well on USMLE. For myself I'm a little above average in terms of GPA. So Will I be able to get a match for surgery/emergency medicine/Anesthesiology if I do reasonably well on the USMLE? What do you think the scores are for these matches from SGU?


LoL.... You're undergrad GPA has nothing to do with how you will do on the MLE. Med School is a whole different ball park.

Btw you were asking "what's the catch"...
And the catch is that SGU won't even let you take the USMLE if you don't meet certain GPA cutoffs ... They kick out dozens of students every year if they think they will do poorly on the USMLE. It protects the "quality of product" and our overall school stats.
 
LoL.... You're undergrad GPA has nothing to do with how you will do on the MLE. Med School is a whole different ball park.

Btw you were asking "what's the catch"...
And the catch is that SGU won't even let you take the USMLE if you don't meet certain GPA cutoffs ... They kick out dozens of students every year if they think they will do poorly on the USMLE. It protects the "quality of product" and our overall school stats.



they don't kick out dozens of students, you're confusing SGU with ROSS and huge difference. SGU has a fairly low attrition rate, not as low as US schools but nothing close to ROSS's attrition rate. a good % of the class has to repeat a class or two but a few get kicked out. and the standards for SGU to take the USMLE are very low by anyone standard, basically you have to pass a cumulative exam that 98% of the class passes and the passing grade needed is a 52% on a multiple choice exam which is composed of old exam questions that were on your exams when you took the courses previosly. also the gpa needed is 2.5... so yes they have requirements before they let you take step1 but those requirements are a joke.
 
Tell that to the kids who got kicked out last term... ask around on campus... maybe "dozens" was a strong word, but it was definitely more than a few.

Also heard a few "decel" apps were rejected

EDIT: but then again, it's all rumor to me because I haven't been able to confirm it myself. Everyone says it's true, but I have no hard evidence.
 
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Lol let's try not to get sidetracked.

But that's exactly what I mean, people who get kicked out are usually the ones who did poorly in their undergrad years (is this a bad assumption?).
So if I come from a top tier school and had to suffer greatly to obtain a 3.6 GPA in my undergrad, I dont think' I will do poorly in medical school.
Do you think I should count on that to get a good residency (surgery/Emergency med...etc)?

How much of a difference is there in the grades/USMLEs between international students and US grads that get matched into these specialties?
 
you'll need on average 10 to 20 points more on the USMLEs to be invited for an interview at a residency program that mostly invites US grads. once invited you still might not be ranked higher than the US grad who has worse USMLE scores than you just because they're a US grad, no one knows, but i guess if you really impress the interviewer on your interview and the US student is cocky and doesn't care than you'll get ranked higher than the US student. top tier residency programs and most mid tier programs will not consider carib grads at all no matter how high your GPA and board scores are, especially at competitive specialties.
 
Lol let's try not to get sidetracked.

But that's exactly what I mean, people who get kicked out are usually the ones who did poorly in their undergrad years (is this a bad assumption?).
So if I come from a top tier school and had to suffer greatly to obtain a 3.6 GPA in my undergrad, I dont think' I will do poorly in medical school.
Do you think I should count on that to get a good residency (surgery/Emergency med...etc)?

Then you should reapply for US med schools. Get a 34+ MCAT, and with your 3.6, you should have very little trouble getting into a school in the US. If you look at the SGU matchlists, many of the "Surgery" matches are actually prelim spots, not categorical General Surgery. If you feel you can't get a 34+ on the MCAT, then what makes you so confident you can score 250+ on the USMLE for ROAD residencies?
 
Lol let's try not to get sidetracked.

But that's exactly what I mean, people who get kicked out are usually the ones who did poorly in their undergrad years (is this a bad assumption?).
So if I come from a top tier school and had to suffer greatly to obtain a 3.6 GPA in my undergrad, I dont think' I will do poorly in medical school.
Do you think I should count on that to get a good residency (surgery/Emergency med...etc)?

How much of a difference is there in the grades/USMLEs between international students and US grads that get matched into these specialties?

That's absolutely not a reasonable assumption. Just because you had a 3.6 GPA in undergrad does not necessarily mean that you will do well in medical school. We just finished our 1st semester in December (at a US medical school) and from the grade distribution in each of our classes, I would venture to say that anywhere from 10-20% of the class failed one or more classes (usually anatomy, physiology, or biochemistry). And the people who failed definitely weren't lightweight in terms of their undergraduate record.

The strange thing is there is no predictable defined pattern among those who failed. I know a biochemistry major from a top 5 school who had a 3.8 GPA and a 35 MCAT who failed medical school biochemistry. I also know a guy who got off the waitlist with a 3.3 and a 30 who seems to be blowing the curve in each of his classes. I would say that distribution is the same among those who did well in undergrad compared to those who didn't do well in undergrad.

I think that it has a lot more to do with motivation and maturity than with your previous undergrad record. For example, the guy who barely got in to medical school, I see him studying all the time - he doesn't take things for granted. He knows how he got lucky this time because he barely got in. The summa cum laude graduate from the Ivy League school, since he did so well on his MCATs and he has a high GPA, seems to assume that he's going to continue doing well - and he failed epically. You are making a gross and unjustifiable assumption in saying that you will do well and get into a competitive residency because you have a 3.6 undergrad GPA. Your undergrad record and your performance in medical school and on the boards are two very distinct matter. In fact, I would venture to say that you will have your ass handed to you on a platter if you go down to the islands assuming that you will do phenomenally well because of your superior undergrad GPA.
 
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Medical school is a completely different ball game. Making As is not easy. And there is absolutely no (or hardly) any correlation between undergrad and med school. I have acting majors in class who are doing well and biochemistry majors struggling. Studies are not even close to easy.
 
Then you should reapply for US med schools. Get a 34+ MCAT, and with your 3.6, you should have very little trouble getting into a school in the US. If you look at the SGU matchlists, many of the "Surgery" matches are actually prelim spots, not categorical General Surgery. If you feel you can't get a 34+ on the MCAT, then what makes you so confident you can score 250+ on the USMLE for ROAD residencies?

Excuse my ignorance. But can you explain to me what is the difference between the prelim and categorical surgery? What is the disadvantage of a prelim...aren't they considered surgeons in the end?
If this has been discussed before please refer me to the link. Thanks!
 
Excuse my ignorance. But can you explain to me what is the difference between the prelim and categorical surgery? What is the disadvantage of a prelim...aren't they considered surgeons in the end?
If this has been discussed before please refer me to the link. Thanks!


There's a ton of posts about categorical and preliminary surgery residency options on SDN and on Google so I won't go into depth but basically:

Categorical Surgery Spot: What most people think of when they think of a surgical residency. It means that if you match into it (either as an ortho, neurosurgery, or ENT) you're basically guaranteed a spot through the 5-7 years of surgery training that you'll receive. It tends to be more prestigious and harder to get than a preliminary spot.

Preliminary spot: it's only a 1 year residency, meaning that you'll have to find something else to do at the end of that or apply to another residency program. A preliminary surgerical spot used to be meant for people who weren't sure about going into surgery and wanted to do a year of surgerical internship to see if they liked it. Nowadays, an increasing number of people who didn't match into a categorical position are using it as a springboard in hopes of getting letters of recommendations to get a categorical spot in the subsequent year.
 
There's a ton of posts about categorical and preliminary surgery residency options on SDN and on Google so I won't go into depth but basically:

Categorical Surgery Spot: What most people think of when they think of a surgical residency. It means that if you match into it (either as an ortho, neurosurgery, or ENT) you're basically guaranteed a spot through the 5-7 years of surgery training that you'll receive. It tends to be more prestigious and harder to get than a preliminary spot.

Preliminary spot: it's only a 1 year residency, meaning that you'll have to find something else to do at the end of that or apply to another residency program. A preliminary surgerical spot used to be meant for people who weren't sure about going into surgery and wanted to do a year of surgerical internship to see if they liked it. Nowadays, an increasing number of people who didn't match into a categorical position are using it as a springboard in hopes of getting letters of recommendations to get a categorical spot in the subsequent year.

Does that 1 year of residency count towards the 5-7 years of categorical? Also how likely is it, or what is the percentage of people in prelim positions actually make it to categorical?
 
Does that 1 year of residency count towards the 5-7 years of categorical? Also how likely is it, or what is the percentage of people in prelim positions actually make it to categorical?

First of all, that one year does not count towards a surgery residency unless the program you are at absolutely falls in love with you.

Secondly, its nearly impossible to answer that question.

The point that is being made here is that you are wasting a year of your life training at a program that is not invested in your long term growth and development. Most preliminary interns in surgery rarely see the inside of an operating room. Their development is not a priority for the department.

Harsh reality: Its bad news for the prelim guy/gal for one year and "Cheap" scut labor for the surgery department!

My guess: 10 percent of the time a prelim gets a categorical spot.

rlxdmd
 
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