Honored rotation but no interview?

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by colforbinMD, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. colforbinMD

    colforbinMD "Thanks, I'm very funny"
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    What should I make of this? Program X accepted me for a visiting rotation. I honored the rotation and got what I believe is a good SLOR from PD. After a long time of not hearing from them I emailed PD who replied basically saying, Sorry we thought we told you we are not going to interview people who rotated here but your app. is still in the mix.
    Really seems to me to be a not so subtle hint saying thanks but no thanks. Seems if they liked me they would not see that one interview spot that they would offef to me as all that valuable? I'm also concerned there might be input when they go to make their rank list from people I didn't meet during my rotation but that do meet people during interviews. What do you guys think? Is there precedent for this type of situation? Come rank time would you let this weigh on your decisions? Thanks all.

    (oh wow, not a wothless post pad from me, yikes)
     
  2. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    This strikes me as very unusual, but I can see the logic.

    We interview everyone who rotates with us as a courtesy, primarily to keep them from freaking. We end up talking about the weather, since I already know how I'm going to rank them and they already know what they need to know about the program.

    Maybe this place just goes the other way, saying that the rotation take the place of and is better than the interview. . .or not?
     
  3. TysonCook

    TysonCook Senior Member
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    Another classic question to ask yourself (usually I ask it when relationships fail) is, "Do I really want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me?"

    Honestly, you may love the program, city, residents, faculty, and even the janitor, but bottom line is; If they aren't going to crush skulls to get you, why should you be sad over the fact that you aren't going there?

    Kinda philosophical I guess. My roommate lived w/the cheif resident in ortho at his #1 choice for his away for the month. Got a great letter from his attending, and the cheif also called the PD and stated (in front of my roommate), that "this is the best medical student I've ever worked with". My roommate DID NOT get an interview at the program. Even in light of his 252 step I score. Go figure, but see above and repeat, "do I want to be at a program that does not want me?"
     
  4. colforbinMD

    colforbinMD "Thanks, I'm very funny"
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    Thanks for your input BKN. I like your programs policy better. I wouldn't say I am freaking out but I am obviously less then thrilled. I hope they simply chose the other route and it is not the "or not" .

    Tyson's vote seems to be towards the "or not" side. Rather that this is a sign the program does not want me. Do others agree? As for your point. Philosophically I agree 100 percent but with most programs receving between 100-150 apps per available spots, I have no illusions that ANY program will bust skulls to get me.

    I see your point
     
  5. TysonCook

    TysonCook Senior Member
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    No, sorry, I did not mean for you to give up. Just that if a program acts negatively towards you don't get dissapointed, such is life. I 100% am stating that you should follow up, not lose sight, and go after what you want. But do not be dissapointed if they say "Hey, were not right for you". Better up front at the beginning, than 4 years of butting heads and wishing they had told you before you came there, or $300 airfare, $100 hotel, and wasted time for an interview that was doomed from the start.

    Lastly, you state that you "have no illusions that ANY program will bust skulls to get you"....WHAT THE H$LL IS THAT!!! You are you! If you aren't sold on yourself, how the H$LL do you expect to sell programs on you! I'm not here to pep you up (in fact we are competitors in this game), but for the love of God, sack up (if you have a sack), and go in there and sell yourself to the point that they WILL want to crack skulls for you!
     
  6. (nicedream)

    (nicedream) Fitter Happier
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    You can rank programs that don't interview you?
     
  7. colforbinMD

    colforbinMD "Thanks, I'm very funny"
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    LOL Thanks for the pep talk Tyson but rest assured, I KNOW I'm the shizzle and I let interviewers know I'm the shizzle too. But..... I know the reality is my Application ( a pathetic few paged representation of the meaningless numerical minutiae of my medical edumacation) while not embarassing or anything, is not something that inspires skull busting. Thus my concern that some people at program X may not have met me or worked with me and only have my application to make decisions.
    Thanks for yor input. It is appreciated. Love your avatar by the way.
     
  8. roja

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    To the OP:

    This is probably a tough call. I can see both sides of the arguement. At our program, we do not, as a matter of course, offer all rotators an interview. We used to, but the program now receives >750 applicants and we only interview about 160.

    I think it basically (this from inference and a few discussions with our PD) the way our rotators are broken down (that have applied):

    Ones that would have gotten interviews regardless or will be ranked high, etc based on performance.

    Ones that might not have generated an interview but residents/faculty gave very good evals etc (and these have matched before here) or expressed alot of interest in the program (calling the PD, etc).

    Those that performed so poorly they wouldn't match at all here and have very little chance. These are rarely given interviews.

    If the program you rotated at is very competitive, you should simply be persistant. Not necessarily through the PD either. If there were other attendings/residents you worked with, you should contact them. Kind of use the "what do you recommend" schpeal. This can often help you get your foot in the door.
     
  9. edinOH

    edinOH Can I get a work excuse?
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    If you want to be there, call the PD and ask him or her what the deal is. Logically explain how you don't completely understand the interview policy. I imagine you will learn that they consider their rotators to be completely interviewed from their vantage point. An unusual way to do things but I understand where they are coming from. If you want to be there or are at least "very interested" in their program, tell them so.

    I honestly can't imagine a program that would give an applicant honors, write good letters, and them completely blackball them. I think they just have a funny policy regarding their rotators.

    Do you know how many of their current residents rotated as students? Do you have the contact info. of any of their current residents or chiefs? I bet any one of them could help shed some light on the situation.
     
  10. UCLA2000

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    I've heard of other programs that have that interview policy as well. Don't make yourself look bad by calling the program. Basically, what they mean is that your rotation there was a "month long" interview. If you honored the rotation and did as well as you seem to think you did, then you have a very high chance of matching there.

    Ask yourself, would you rather accept a random person to your program who interviewed well, or someone who you've worked with for a month. There are no suprises with the person whom you've already worked with. You know what you're getting. The random person who interviewed well might turn out to be a total loser in the clinics.

    If that program is high on your list, then just thank the residency director via email for explaining the policy to you and let him/her know that their program is at the top of your list.
     
  11. corpsmanUP

    corpsmanUP Senior Member
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    I tend to agree. I am rotating at a program in January that offered me an interview prior to the rotation and then told me that I would not have to go through the actual interview process once I scheduled the rotation. They said that the month there would serve as the interview and my guess is that this will be better anyway for all parties. Its nice to be offered an opportunity to see a program and not be able to rank them without having to put on the monkey suit! Ties are way over-rated!
     
  12. edinOH

    edinOH Can I get a work excuse?
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    If you don't understand the policy you aren't going to look bad by calling for clarification.

    I've always thought a formal interview after a rotation is a good idea from a program's standpoint at least. It gives a program the opportunity to "close the deal" with an applicant they identified early on whom they expect to rank highly.

    Perceptions change as the interview season progresses and other rotations take place. If you haven't seen a program since July or August and that program hasn't seen you, it can be nice to get back together in December or January to decide if everybody still loves each other as much as they did in the summer!
     
  13. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    Well said. It's a long time from July to Feb with 100 intrviewees in between.
     
  14. colforbinMD

    colforbinMD "Thanks, I'm very funny"
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    I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the program disagrees. I am going to compose a nice email tomorrow saying I understand why they would choose not to interview us but that truthfully I was a little disappointed as I am very interested in the program and was looking forward to the opportunity to show them how suave I look in a suit and tell them why I am so interested in them and what I look forward to bringing to their program.

    Thanks all for your input. I am somewhat encouraged by the posters saying they know of other programs with this policy and cautiously hopefull that this will not change my chances at this program too much.
     
  15. southerndoc

    southerndoc life is good
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    Don't push your luck or you may lose a spot.
     
  16. Seaglass

    Seaglass Quantum Member
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    Several well known programs do not routinely interview (or rank) all rotators. Charlotte and Denver come to mind.
     
  17. colforbinMD

    colforbinMD "Thanks, I'm very funny"
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    Do you think that email in any way pushes my luck? How so?
     
  18. southerndoc

    southerndoc life is good
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    No, I was just saying don't cross the line. If you send an email or call, don't be persistent enough that you become annoying and don't come across as being rude.

    It's really going to take a lot of thinking to write an email without sounding pompous or irritating someone.
     
  19. GiJoe

    GiJoe Senior Member
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    i dont know why but this makes me a feel a little uneasy. If a program has already made a decision about me and interview's me just to keep me from "freaking", I really think that this is misleading. I rotated at a program and got a stinking HP, but I loved the program and hope to rank it # 1. I interview with them next week and I really hope it's not just a courtesy interview just to keep me from "freaking"...(unless they know they're gonna be ranking me highly of course).
     
  20. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    Well, I've usually had advising sessions with all of the students who want EM during their rotation. I'd be happy to forgo the formal interview, but you see that the rest of the folks in this thread don't want to do that.

    I can't win. :(

    p.s. We've matched more than one that we gave a HP to in the past. Happy to train them. Please don't overread every little signal. Almost all of the applicants we see, regardless of the grade we gave them can be good EPs. I think most PDs would say the same.
     
  21. UCLA2000

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    Personally, I think it's more annoying when programs interview all of their rotators despite their chances of matching. It would really piss me off if I discovered that a program made me fly across the US, pay for a hotel, and generally waste an entire day of my life if they already knew prior to the interview that they were going to rank me low.

    As a med student the two things that I have the least of are time and money. I take it personally when people waste either.

    I wish that more programs used the "month long" interview instead of a one day interview with rotators. It has been my experience that I tend to get interviewed by the "one person" in the dept that I never worked with... :laugh: sucks.
     
  22. UCLA2000

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    It could be perceived as annoying/pushy, and the caller could easily say something which could be looked badly upon. Also, the caller could potentially catch the director at a bad time, or on a bad day and things could quickly go sour.
     
  23. jazz

    jazz Senior Member
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    look at it from the bright side...

    at least they're not wasting your time/money with a courtesy interview if they've already decided not to rank you highly.

    at least you got a great letter -- no one else will know that you didn't get an interview there....
     
  24. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    I need to be clear. We don't discuss the ROL or make decisions until the 2nd week in Feb. I was saying that (1) we have enough info to make those decisions on anybody who has rotated with us and (2) I personally pay much more attention to the student's performance under my supervision and advising than to the interview. I don't know if other programs would make a call directly after the rotation.

    As to the interviewed by the "one person" preoblem, the answer is obvious. Call the faculty who worked with you and ask them to go to bat for you.
     
  25. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    One last thing. I said it on another thread. I think it's just rude not to interview somebody who cafreed enough about your place to come spend a month with you.
     
  26. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST
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    I understand your point, but also think that some (perhaps many) of your colleagues, not while working as EP's, but when they put on their PD hats, are less than sincere, or, also, may be constrained by others in the department. What I mean by that is my example of a program I rotated at - got a letter from the PD, had one resident say "I would work with him every day", had my interview with residents be the talk about the weather, since "we know and like you already", and found out I didn't get ranked by them (since they didn't fill), and I did a little snooping and found out that it was the department chair who directed I not be ranked because I'm an FMG (not from Sackler, which are the only FMG's he takes).

    I was mature and secure enough to not worry if I didn't get a "courtesy" interview - that would not freak me, as much as it rankled me to believe that people in this program had enough class and were stand-up enough to not waste my time (in that I could have stayed longer in Tahiti than go for this bull**** interview, if I never had any chance at that program).
     
  27. Flopotomist

    Flopotomist I love the Chicago USPS
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    My understanding is that Highland will not be interviewing anybody that rotated there - the rotation will serve as the interview...
     

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