hopeless?

[ClinPsy]

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Hi Gang!
Ok.....I took my general GRE last week. I did horribly!
Verbal 300 ; Quantitative 420. I know many will say that I will just be wasting my time applying to my 10 PhD programs. But do i have a slim shot with my background:

Ethnic minority and living is a multicultural environment (ALOHA STATE)
Senior thesis (empirical research) on ethnic minority study
3 years psych tech at psychiatric hospital
many, many, volunteer work in community
Psy GPA 3.3
health care field experience (work and previous major)
Leadership experience at school
It appears that I will be getting great recommendations ( also, writers have written about my english writing and speaking abilities according to them)
I have a great match with two schools with my ethnic minority study - it
is right on the target!

English is my second language, and the Verbal GRE was extremely tough!
I studied Barron's 3500, but it's just difficult for me to make association on those stem words, perhaps it's language thing. I studied for the GRE for 3 months full time (had to quit job for it). Overall, it was just difficult - I kept getting 300s on tests, however; i was a bit surprised with the 420 on the real test. I will not take the GRE again because I just don't see my Verbal improving and I don't want to ruin the 420. im just being realistic here, but i know many of you will probably doubt my chances.
I just want to know what you all think of any chance i might have to have.

I am considering the MA route if things don't work out, but please, comment
on my chances of a PhD program. I will be applying to middle tier or even below- programs.

Thanks in advance!

 

[psychwanabe]

Well, I don't know the prereq's for Masters programs, so I can't speak to those. The problem with many Ph.D. programs is that your file has to meet certain standards before they will even look at you for consideration. I can only speak to the 9 schools to which I applied, but they all had cut-off scores and if your GRE and GPA did not meet those, you were automatically disqualified for consideration. Your scores would not work in those instances.

I would suggest that you tailor your applications to programs who do not have such cutoffs. Do a lot of research to see where you might fit. Definitely look into Master's programs with those same questions.

 

[bellecalle]

In my honest opinion, you MUST retake the GRE and break at least a 1000, if not 1100. I understand that English is your second language, but it is also my second language as well and I was still unhappy with my 590 verbal score. One recommendation writer who I'm extremely close to said that she would comment on her letter about my 590, without me asking her to do so, which means she thought it was on the low side. A 300 verbal will definitely raise eyebrows even if English is your second language..

As far as the 420 math, that's not brilliant either. Many people who are ESL do extremely well on the math. I think many schools see a pattern with slightly lower verbal and higher math for non-native speakers. If you look at most school's full disclosure data, average math score is anywhere from 670 to 750.

As far as your other background is concerned.. to me it sort of sounds like you are hoping to be accepted because you're an ethnic minority. that's not really going to fly as there will be plenty of other people trying to play that card. You also mentioned that your psych GPA is a 3.3. I think you need to remember that other applicants have MUCH higher overall and psych GPAs.

With that said, have you presented any posters and were you included in any publications as a result of your work experiences as a psych tech? Something like that could help a lot.. Will you be taking the TOEFL? Maybe a good score on that can offset your verbal score.. So my honest opinion is that you would be a much more competitive candidate if you score higher on the GRE.. I know that learning vocab is hard, and its difficult to make those associations with analogies etc but it has been done by other ESL people and you can do it as well. I think at this point, your GRE score will definitely hold you back..

Please don't take any offense, as I am simply trying to be helpful.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Realistically, your only shot right now is an MS program. Clinical Psychology doctoral programs are consistently some of the hardest programs to get into in the entire country, and you are competing with the best of the best.

Going through an MS program may show your ability to complete the work, and with some hard work researching and presenting, you may be able to strengthen your applications. You still would need to retake your GRE, but hopefully your score would improve. 1000-1100 is usually a popular cut off point for consideration in many programs, though 1200+ is what most applicants will be submitting. It is a pretty arbitrary thing, but with 100's of applications for a handfuls of spots....they have that luxury.

-t

 

[JockNerd]

I'd second belle. Re-write it. Verbal isn't important if you're ESL, but quant is. As belle said, english ability isn't really an impediment to high scores on quant. Your GPA isn't super to boot, no offense.

I'm not sure why you would note that you're an ethnic minority as the first plus on your application. Programs get LOTS of minority applicants. And white males like myself are still getting into programs. That alone isn't going to help you out.... Your other stuff sounds good, but really there are a ton of applicants with leadership and clinical experience. If you did some cool stuff in your research and tech work, that would be a big plus.

I'd re-write, sell up unique aspects of that applied work, sell as much as you can of the tech work and thesis, and (obviously) make sure you match with profs. Other than GRE and GPA you seem like a fine candidate; don't settle for a program you don't want to go to.

 

[Ollie123]

Everyone else is pretty much dead on. The verbal might have been forgiven if english is your second language if you had a strong quant and a strong GPA, but you have a very weak GPA. I wouldn't worry about "ruining" the 420. Not to sound harsh, but that there really is no way to "ruin" a 420 quant. Quant matters more than verbal for clinical programs, and 420 is still really really really low. Heck, you could score 200 points higher on quant and that would only get you to "mediocre". Many programs will let one factor slide for an otherwise solid candidate (e.g. low GREs, but a 4.0), but two makes things really really really hard.

I won't tell you not to apply, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find an acceptance anywhere with those scores. To be perfectly honest, even many master's programs will likely be a stretch for you, let alone PhD. I would expect to have to take time off. A publication or two might open some doors for you, or better yet finding employment in one of those labs you're interested in.

Not trying to be a downer, but I just want you to be realistic about this. Your stats are not just below the average for accepted students, but below the average for APPLICANTS, and extend across multiple domains (GREs and GPA). Your other credentials sound decent, but nothing really stood out to me. With a solid GPA and GRE score that wouldn't be a problem, but with those scores you NEED something big to have a shot at it.

Best of luck, hope things work out for you.

 

[ClinPsy]

Thanks guys for all the comments! No offense taken from anyone 🙂

I was looking for realistic comments, and thats' why I decided to join this forum.

For those who are in the process of applying, good luck to all of you!!
Don't stress out! - one school at a time!

Good luck, and always have faith!

 

[Marissa4usa]

Hey there,
I am also an international student whose native language isn't English and while I am absolutely with you when it comes to the verbal part ( I also studied straight for months, memorized 1500 words, took at about 15 practice exams) I cant get anythting above a 450, even though I already got a nice score on the TOEFL two years ago. However, it seems to you like you cant improve your verbal ( I know it's wicked hard-I've had English in school for 9 years and I've been in the states for 3 years and I don't know 90% of the words on these wordslists) then work on getting a better quantitative- c'mon it's math!! there is only so much that they are going to ask on the GRE, try to understand every principle, study books over and over, the questions are not going to change, just the numbers and once you know how to solve a certain task, it doesn't matter what numbers there are.
As for the verbal- since it doesn't seem to make sense to memorize more words, practice the sentence completions and reading comprehensions. those kind of tasks are not as heavily vocabulary based, so try too boost your score that way. ALso, I recommend to buy the GRE Princeton book because even though they don't tell you as much about the material as I would want to they give you some valuable tips how to tackle the GRE as a standardized test (for example when you don't know any of the words of the original word pair, look if any of the other word pairs in the answer choices have a relationship, etc).


Good luck!!!

 

[deleted106747]

I found the Kaplan flip book for vocab very helpful. http://www.amazon.com/Kaplan-Exam-Vocabulary-Flashcards-Flip-O-Matic/dp/0743261844/ref=sr_1_3/103-1756794-0627867?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194111529&sr=8-3

 

[NH14]

Unforunately, GRE cut-offs discriminate against applicants of minority racial and ethnic backgrounds. Although you didn't disclose your ethnicity, for your ethnic group, you may have scored above average - perhaps even within the upper percentiles. The fact that clinical psychology programs use GRE cut-offs, frankly, disgusts me. ETS, the testing service, has written several memos advising grad programs NOT to employ cut-offs as they DO discriminate against racial groups - http://www.ets.org/Media/Tests/GRE/pdf/13043105.pdf.

But numerous clinical psychology programs have not heeded to their advice and continue to employ them.

Unfortunately, as of now, there looks like there will be no change in this practice in the near future - so the advice given by the previous members will be your best bet - study, and study hard. Because even though the GRE was suppose initially intended as a test that could not be mastered by studying, ETS themselves have conceded that it can be - even furthering the discrimination the GRE and cut-offs hold (those who can afford prep vs. those that can't)

I don't mean to upset you, or discourage you - studying can improve your chances, but what I have mentioned is, unfortunately, the stark reality.