Hopkins vs Columbia vs Yale vs Penn (WL)

[shallotjuice]

Decided! Thanks everybody for the input.

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[newkungfukenny]

Disclaimer: A at Yale and Hopkins, pre-II R from the other two

I think the choice for you is definitely between Hopkins and Yale. They are unique powerhouses in research + policy. And if you really can’t do Bmore and think you can love New Haven: easily Yale. Funding for research is at a high level (impt for this current administration) and the law school offers unparalleled programs to do advocacy and policy work as a med student. (source: I went there for undergrad). It may not have the “Hopkins” name in medicine, but the Yale name is unmatched and will do so much to get you where you need to go.

Can I ask where you heard about Hopkins removing p/f? I’ve seen it on threads dating back years now and I’m starting to assume it might just be sdn talk. Current students seem to say it’s always safe for another 3 years (that’s how often they review it)

 

[truthwarrior]

whether or not hopkins is removing p/f i feel like they wouldnt remove it for student who commit with the expectation that it is p/f. regardless, id say yale.

 

[upperdeckystimmy]

You obviously have no wrong options here, especially if COA will be the same. Seeing as you went to JHU for undergrad I totally understand why that's a huge pull factor. Personally, I fell in love with Yale's "chill" atmosphere which I felt like was rare and enabled students to really pursue their passions in med school without being bogged down in requirements. If prestige is important to you, there really isn't a perceived difference between JHU vs Yale imo.

 

[newkungfukenny]

whether or not hopkins is removing p/f i feel like they wouldnt remove it for student who commit with the expectation that it is p/f. regardless, id say yale.

i also think this. i always assumed they'd have to preemptively announce this for a certain class that hasn't entered yet

 

[shallotjuice]

Disclaimer: A at Yale and Hopkins, pre-II R from the other two

I think the choice for you is definitely between Hopkins and Yale. They are unique powerhouses in research + policy. And if you really can’t do Bmore and think you can love New Haven: easily Yale. Funding for research is at a high level (impt for this current administration) and the law school offers unparalleled programs to do advocacy and policy work as a med student. (source: I went there for undergrad). It may not have the “Hopkins” name in medicine, but the Yale name is unmatched and will do so much to get you where you need to go.

Can I ask where you heard about Hopkins removing p/f? I’ve seen it on threads dating back years now and I’m starting to assume it might just be sdn talk. Current students seem to say it’s always safe for another 3 years (that’s how often they review it)

I say this only based on what's been said on SDN threads/in the GroupMe; it sounded like the task force is actively reviewing the policy this semester and going back to tiered grading is a possible outcome. I agree that it seems like they've been talking about this for ages and have never chosen to gone back, so I would be very surprised if they do... and if they do decide to stick with P/F this semester, then our class will be done clerkships by the time they review next, I believe, which is great!

 

[Mr. Macrophage]

I personally was not a fan of Hopkins’s vibes, so I’d be going Yale here!

 

[Dragonite7]

- Yale started a concentration in Medical Humanities this year. I don't know much about it but you could reach out to learn more if you're interested in that.
- YNHH sees a surprisingly diverse patient population. Probably not as much as NYP, but I don't think the difference is noticeable as a med student.

 

[ger1atric]

I just visited Hopkins today and had an amazing experience as someone who’s never visited before and also had qualms about the student vibes. If your end goal is to be a great doctor above all else, I think Hopkins is hard to beat.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

Hey! Yale student here. Congrats on great options - you can't go wrong here.

I am best suited to address your Yale things but I will say Yale reviewed their clerkship grading policy in the fall while I was an M1 and it was a very real possibility that the committee would have gone back to Honors/HP (which is what it was pre-COVID) and this was NOT communicated to us incoming M1 (at the time) students. So I think for everyone hoping that Hopkins won't do that to students that are committing, I think the bait and switch very well could happen based on my experience at Yale. For people considering Yale reading this - don't worry, the student body overwhelmingly pushed for keeping it P/F indefinitely and that was what the committee decided!

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Yale
Pros

• Yale System - true P/F all four years, no AOA, internal rankings, etc. whatsoever, so much flexibility and freedom to explore my interests

YUP It's the best, I love it, my friends love it, definitely THE selling point of all selling points.

• The admin and faculty seem so lovely and supportive, everyone raves about how collaborative and friendly the culture is

Agreed, have never heard a story about admin being the villain which is crazy for medical school. Everyone is so helpful and forthcoming. No competitive vibes whatsoever.

• Excellent grad/professional schools all around, could make interdisciplinary work more possible

This has been my experience. While I'm going in 4 yrs (applying this year), so many of my friends are doing cool dual degrees and/or have been involved in stuff like policy research fellowships with the law school or audited lit classes etc.

• Layman prestige which admittedly does mean a bit to me + my parents are absolutely in love with this school for sentimental reasons lol (not actually a factor but would be a nice bonus given that they're paying for my school)

Definitely doesn't matter within medicine (in terms of comparison to your other options) but can definitely help outside of clinical work and friends/family are definitely impressed!

Cons

• Likely would need a car since New Haven is (apparently) a food desert

Wouldn't say this is a need. There's a Stop n Shop within walking distance and a couple other options within walking distance too. We're also hoping that the rumors of a Trader Joes in New Haven are true (but no guarantees). There's a Yale shuttle that runs directly to the Trader Joes/Costco/Whole Foods nexus in Milford on Saturdays and plenty of your classmates will have cars and it's a big part of the student culture to carpool to grocery stores! Also, there's always delivery which costs more but you'll find that your time is valuable.

• Yale New Haven Hospital isn't as large and high-volume as JHH, NYP, or Penn's hospitals, not sure if this has consequences for the clinical training

Probably true but I wouldn't be worried about this. By some measure it's actually the 3rd largest (I think by Beds?) stand-alone hospital in the US. There's also a fairly large community hospital 5 mins away that we do some rotations at (who happens to be building an insanely nice new neuro tower to eventually hold neurosurgery and I think most of ortho too) + many other sites. I just finished my clinical year and feel like I saw all of the wild/Zebra things and definitely had lots of volume. It's a level one trauma center and level 4 NICU, the children's hospital has many rare areas of excellence, Smilow (cancer hospital) definitely draws in patients from all over - don't worry! Happy to expand more too if you have specific questions about specific specialties - I had this concern too when I was applying but can confidently tell you not to be worried.

• Less biomedical research funding and resources (?)

Haven't had any issue finding tons of research opportunities. I think our MD/PhD program is the largest in the country or second largest so there's definitely a lot of research happening.

• Less prestigious in medicine and I think slightly weaker match lists

As someone who also chose between schools on this tier and above - I think at this level, slight prestige differences don't matter that much. I'm not familiar with the other school's match lists but I think ours is pretty fantastic. I think Yale will get you wherever you want to go.

• Yale System might be too little structure? Not insurmountable by any means but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up not liking just how self-directed it is

This is the most important thing to sit and think about - the vast majority (I'd say 95%) of people here are really happy and thrilled, but you have to be self directed to some extent - the structure exists, but if you're the type of person to actively avoid social opportunities and will only go to things you are forced to go to, you might not be the happiest version of yourself here.

Neutral: interested in the 5th year option as I could see myself taking a research year during med school. Not clear on why the tuition-free 5th year is such a big deal - do other schools charge tuition if students want to take a research year??

I think it's the fact that it historically has been so easy to take the funded year - you don't have to get funding from your lab/PI, it's arranged through the school. It's also encouraged/not seen as a drag on the school's match list. Other schools don't charge tuition but it might be a scramble to try to get a fellowship or go somewhere else for the funded research year where at Yale you are kinda guaranteed money without insane effort. But I'm not taking a fifth year and thankfully felt zero pressure to take one even though I'm applying into a competitive specialty.

Hope this helps! I remember having a lot of these same doubts/questions and it would have helped me a lot to hear from a current student who is willing to be fully honest and open. Let me know if you have any more questions, but honestly again I think you will succeed and thrive anywhere on your list!

 

[TheRealBibFortuna]

Chiming in that, according to the students in the Hopkins GroupMe, the curriculum committee was going to place great emphasis on the match list/student outcomes when reviewing the clerkship grading scheme. With about 78% of students matching into a T20 program this cycle, I doubt the committee will risk an upset at this point.