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MD & DO HORRENDOUS undergrad-->postbac-->SMP; chances?

Discussion in 'What Are My Chances?' started by 20Hopeful16, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. 20Hopeful16

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    Which MD and DO schools do you think I should apply to? And what do you think my chances are?

    Thank you for your help!
     
    #1 20Hopeful16, Aug 3, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  2. GrapesofRath

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    There are people on here who know far more about SMPs and the success rate they have of getting people into med schools with each range of SMP GPA but what I will say is I can't see how a 3.4 SMP GPA helps your MD case. My guess is it probably hurts your MD chances unfortunately. The effect a 3.4 has on DO admission is not something I really know enough to answer correctly; your best bet though is probably to give real focus to DO's and see what happens this cycle. Good luck.

    Btw I'm not sure I really recommend retaking the MCAT unless you have a real concrete reason to believe you will definitely improve your verbal score and that your SMP knowledge will really help you with the other science sections.
     
  3. md-2020

    md-2020 The Immaculate Catch
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    @OP you MCAT is not a problem at all, a retake is likelier to hurt than help.

    I can't speak to how GPA repair works in your specific case.
     
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  4. 20Hopeful16

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    i agree that a 3.4 smp gpa is not ideal and may hurt my MD chances. but will adcoms consider that i was being graded against an m1 class with a 33-34 average? thanks for the responses! which schools should i target?
     
  5. Goro

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    Absolutely do not retake the MCAT:
    I suggest:
    U Miami
    Albany
    NYMC
    Drexel
    Rosy Franklin
    Your state school
    All new schools (except Central MI and the three in FL)
    Netter
    Rosy Franklin
    All other lower tier schools
    Any DO school


     
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  6. 20Hopeful16

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    Thanks Goro! I know you mentioned any DO school, but do you think I have a shot at one of the California DO schools like Western or Tuoro? They look to be really competitive!!

     
  7. Goro

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    I think you'll be fine for the CA schools, plus AZCOM, TUNCOM, Western-OR and PacNW. That should keep you close to the West Coast!
     
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  8. 20Hopeful16

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    Thank you for the encouragement Goro! Those are some of the schools I've been looking at and will most likely apply to.
     
  9. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    I think you'll be OK for DO schools. MD will be a stretch. Much better advice could be given if we knew the specific SMP, but moving on...
    Here are some MD and DO schools that have taken GT grads in the past 2 years(I didn't bother to take out the schools with a high IS bias, you can do this yourself.):


    • Alabama COM
    • Albany Medical College
    • Albert Einstein College of Medicine
    • Arizona COM of Midwestern University
    • Brown Medical School
    • Brody School of Medicine, ECU
    • Case Western Reserve
    • Central Michigan College of Medicine
    • Chicago COM of Midwestern Univ
    • Commonwealth Medical College
    • Creighton University
    • Drexel
    • East Tennessee State University
    • EVMS
    • Emory University
    • Florida Atlantic University
    • Florida International University
    • Georgetown University
    • George Washington
    • Hofstra University
    • Howard University
    • Jefferson Medical College
    • Keck School of Medicine-- USC
    • Lake Erie COM
    • Kansas City Univ of Medicine and Biosciences
    • Marian University
    • Medical College of Georgia
    • NY COM
    • Michigan State University COM
    • Morehouse University School of Medicine
    • New York Medical College
    • Nova Southeastern Univ COM
    • Ohio State University College of Medicine
    • Penn State University
    • Philadelphia COM
    • Quinnipiac School of Medicine
    • Rocky Vista COM
    • Rosalind Franklin
    • Rowan University COM
    • Rush Medical College
    • USUHS
    • Temple University
    • Touro COM- NY
    • Touro COM- California
    • Touro COM- Nevada
    • Texas Tech University School of Medicine, El Paso
    • Texas Tech University School of Medicine, Lubbock
    • Tufts University
    • Tulane
    • University of California, Irvine
    • University of Cincinnati
    • University of Illinois
    • University of Maryland
    • University of Mississippi
    • University of Missouri, Kansas City
    • University of Minnesota, Minneapolis
    • University of North Carolina, Chapel
    • Univeristy of South Florida
    • University of Texas, San Antonio
    • University of Toledo
    • University of Virginia
    • University of Washington
    • University of Wisconsin
    • Virginia Commonwealth University
    • VCU/MCV School of Medicine
    • Virginia Tech Carillion SOM
    • Wake Forest
    • Wayne State

    Many other schools have historically taken GT grads if you look back a decade or so; do some HW please. Hopefully your SMP's name will carry you somewhat and help you garner an MD acceptance. GT hasn't updated their list with the class that just finished, but this is a good place to start.
     
    #9 ZedsDed, Aug 3, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
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  10. C02232934

    C02232934 Account on Hold
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    There are some impressive schools on that list
     
  11. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    That's probably why they ask for 50k in tuition!
     
  12. GrapesofRath

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    Good job with the list first off and getting this info.

    Really the OPs question comes down to couple things
    a) how much SMP reputation matters
    b) what happens to those who don't ace SMPs but don't completely bomb them(SDN often deals with one of these two not the intermediate)
    c) what kind of performance in an SMP is sufficient to prove to ADCOMS you can handle med school. Average performance in a class full of MDs? Below average? 40th percentile in the class rank?

    Georgetown loves to brag about how 85% of their graduates get into a medical school within 2 years of completing the program. But that is meant to be intentionally vague when accounting for DOs and foreign MDs. Anecdotes on SDN will often tell you that the majority of Gtown graduates get into US MD programs but I've heard conflicting info on this and really there is no one good source for this and obtaining this kind of info.

    What matters on top of this are an applicants credentials outside of an SMP as well. OP has a decent MCAT(but one that isn't spectacular). OP's GPA outside of an SMP is a mixed bag. Very low undergrad GPA, strong post-bacc showing(albeit for only 3 semesters). So if you want to believe the majority of G'town graduates get into an US MD program, you gotta try and ask what are the credentials of those who are in the middle or slightly below average class rank who get into MD schools? Is an upward trend 3.2/31 enough? I'm not sure honestly. We know G'towns list of med schools their graduates get into but if there is more info on the specifically on how the middle of their class farirs and their credentials outside of the SMP, that is the kind of info that is really valuable, because honestly I've just heard too many conflicting anecdotes to really know what to think.
     
  13. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    Thanks! All of the info is available on GT's website though.

    a.) IMO, for MD schools, a lot. AdCom's need to know that it is a rigorous program. There is a reason some programs have such high matriculation percentages, while others don't. You can find enough anecdotes on the postbacc forum attesting to this.
    b.) Lower-tier MD/all-tier DO. Probably about 50/50
    c.) You would have to ask AdCom members. YMMV depending on the program we are talking about.

    GT has said "the great majority of our graduates matriculate into U.S. allopathic med schools." We can interpret this number to be 51%, but I am more optimistic than that. Just using anecdotes, the ones who go DO tend to be the ones who insist on not taking a gap year after the program and/or underperform in the program and/or have a very low GPA and a mediocre MCAT score.
    I agree, OP's stats (if he did go to GT) are below who they usually accept. They want to protect that high percentage, and OP fit's the profile of one of their graduates who does end up going DO (no offense OP.)
     
  14. WedgeDawg

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    I've heard some of the adcoms here throw around 3.8 as the SMP GPA to beat, though you're probably not dead in the water with a 3.7.
     
  15. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    There are all kinds of factors to take into consideration. But yeah, you're probably fine with >3.7.
     
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  16. WedgeDawg

    WedgeDawg not actually a dog
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    Of course - just throwing out the ballpark number I've seen!
     
  17. GrapesofRath

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    Yeah I mean basically this boils down to a) believing G'town on its unofficial word backed up by no specific data that a great "majority" go to MD schools b) trying to figure out what "great majority" means.

    My hesitation does in part lie to what @WedgeDawg has said, for SMPs the talk is always about acing it to prove your worth(at least a 3.65). I'm not sure what happens to those with 3.4's which aren't tanking SMPs but aren't exactly proving their worth fully.

    My personal guess is that with 3.4 SMP applicant their credentials outside of the SMP are what need to carry them to an MD acceptance if they get one. I'm not sure if a 3.2/31 does that for the OP. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But there's just no concrete info to really go off to make more than an educated guess. Luckily for the OP this is Georgetown's SMP, arguably the most established one available, and not one of the lower names.
     
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  18. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    Since he has a 3.7 postbacc GPA, a 3.4 SMP GPA, and a 31 MCAT, I think he arguably has the "stuff" of the average MD matriculant. It will be interesting to see how differently he is treated from the average 3.7/31. Of course in reality, the average MD matriculant didn't mess up four years of undergrad.
    I agree with the part in bold 1000%.
     
  19. GrapesofRath

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    We shall see. I still think the 2.7 over 8 semesters will factor in a fair amount especially when the 3.7 post-bacc is only over 3 semesters. The real question though is if OP could only get 1 II last cycle without the SMP what happens now with the 3.4 SMP? My completely uneducated guess is either it is a neutral effect or slightly harms the OP.
     
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  20. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    Absolutely, I agree.
    For MD schools? It's very possible. OP will probably find DO schools much more forgiving. This is one of the many reasons (imo) that MD SMP's are not a good option if one is open to DO.
     
  21. GrapesofRath

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    Yep. Georgetown's SMP average is a 3.3/32; those stats are competitive for almost any DO school.

    This generally brings up the point about why I'm not a big SMP guy for many cases. The standard of beating the majority of medical students is very difficult; there's a reason why over half the students in an MD class couldn't beat the class average. DIY post-baccs to me are usually a far more realistic option for doing well. If the OP had kept up with a post-bacc for another year and brought that 3.0/3.4 GPA up to 3.2/3.5 territory I think that would have helped them more than a 3.4 SMP showing for this cycle for sure.
     
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  22. 20Hopeful16

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    For the record, I didn't go to GT. I was accepted to their SMP but decided to attend another one.

    You guys are spot-on in saying that SMPs are huge risks. It is most definitely tough to beat the M1 average (half of the class full of accomplished and motivated students couldn't), and I wish adcoms wouldn't relegate someone who essentially "hung with the M1's, even if slightly below average" as being un-fit for medical school, when in fact he/she has proved that they can handle the work. I think only those who are actually in medical school/have done an SMP can really appreciate this. I hope there are adcoms who can see the positives of my performance and understand that I will likely do relatively better the second time around because of my experience. 3.4 isn't an eye-opening GPA, but it should be taken in a much different context than other 3.4's. A 3.7+ SMP GPA is nearly high-passing/honoring most of your M1 classes. A 3.4 roughly equates to mostly passes with one honor, maybe one high pass, and zero low-passes/fails.

    I'm hoping to get into an MD school but I'm going to apply to a fair number of DO schools because I'm really hoping to get in this cycle.
     
  23. GrapesofRath

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    Which one did you go to? Name recognition matters. I think ZedsDed was under the impression it was G-town which is arguably the biggest name for SMPs youll find. You have to realize how many people Georgetown SMP gets into US MD schools; a number of these include those who weren't near the top of the class. So a 3.4 from a lesser known SMP will be viewed differently and have different significance for you.

    If you personally ask me which is easier; to even get the class average at MS1 programs or to have a 3.8+ GPA in a DIY post-bacc where you hand pick your upper level science classes the latter would be my choice. But it's never that simple. ADCOMS want to see success at all costs from post-baccs of any form; a 3.4 where there were people in your SMP that did better than you just isn't what they define as significant success. A 3.8+ is success and the type of GPA that ADCOMs perceive as showing that you can handle a med school workload; particularly given the MD matriculant GPA average itself is 3.7. Are there flaws in this thought process? Sure but the theme "success is success" rules the day here.

    So to really provide some perspective lets play a hypothetial. How might an ADCOM see an applicant with a 3.4 SMP GPA. Again, I am hardly some ADCOM or insider, but hte point here is to provide a contrasting perspective that they might easily think that you didn't necessairly see yourself.

    Hypothetial perspective:
    So this 3.4 SMP student is someone who dedicated all his time to med school classes, took arguably 30% of the courseload of a typical first year med student( other adcoms have said on here in the past like Goro that they perceive SMP courseloads are far easier than 1st year medical student ones even if some disagree) and still ended up an average student in medical school. So basically we are going in knowing that even when the courseload is sliced considerably the 3.4 SMP student still is at best an average medical student? It's harder for an MD school to get behind the idea that they are taking a student who even with a considerably less workload is still at best average for med student purposes. Now you have to ask what happens when they have a full time courseload way above the SMP load? Many ADCOMs could think their class rank would drop, and perhaps significantly. So in their minds they are dealing with a student who has evidence of showing that they will be a medicore student in medical school. When there are so many promising applicants, who wants to take someone who will just be a medicore face?

    Now, there are many reasons to say why the perspective I provided above is unfair. I don't agree with alot of it. When you take a class of 100 exceptional students, someone has to finish in the bottom half of hte class. Someone has to finish in the bottom 20%. Doesn't mean they still cant be good doctors. It's just numbers. But there definitely could be a psychological factor that comes into play of being hesitant to take someone who ADCOMs have strong reason to think will be medicore in med school(again its what they think that matters). Could that 3.9 DIY post- bacc student be medicore in med school? Of course. But an ADCOM could perhaps have a much easier time thinking there is reason to believe they won't and that they will carry their high GPA to a strong medical school showing than someone with an average class rank in an SMP taking a far lighter courseload. You can't just predict a low class rank for someone who has a high DIY post-bacc GPA with the discresion you would for an average SMP GPA candidate; that's just how it is.

    This is always why I'm not big on recommending SMPs. They put you in a very vulnerable spot. IF you ace an SMP, the benefits are greater than acing a post-bacc. But acing those is something that many people simply aren't capable of doing, just like many bright medical students just cannot get in the top tier of their class rank no matter how hard they work. Just like not everyone has the natural reasoning ability and skill to get a 38 on the MCAT: doesn't mean the 32's and 33 students aren't very good in their own right. But it's a high standard demanded in SMPs many aren't ready for and it puts you in a very precarious position. That's why SMPs should truely only be used by people who a) Are willing to risk not being a doctor as opposed to being a DO b) really are in a situation where there GPA is beyond repair(ie those with sub 3.1 showings who's GPAs really cant go up much more).

    Having said all this, if you are open to DO schools I think you are in position to find success this cycle. It might not have been your goal and maybe just keeping up with post-bacc work that could have gotten your GPA to 3.2/3.5 territory would have been alot more doable and helpful than the 3.4 SMP GPA, but it all is a learning experience and the SMP classes will aid your transition to medical school, MD or DO.
     
  24. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    Let me make a few points:

    1.) With a 3.0 GPA after you aced your postbacc, you really didn't have a choice in whether or not you should've done an SMP, if MD was your goal. Unfortunately, those who benefit the most from SMPs are often the ones who need it the least. In other words, an individual with a 3.4 uGPA and a 4.0 SMP GPA is going to see a lot more success in their application cycle than someone with your stats. In the past, <3.0 GPAs got into MD schools through one of the plethora of linkage-programs that existed even 10 years ago. Those days are long-gone.

    2.) A 3.4 in an SMP is an accomplishment, and it is one that you should be proud of. But you need to realize that your course load was, at most, 60-70% of the M1 course load. You are expected to do better than the average M1 student. Otherwise, AdCom members are liable to think you will be a mediocre student in med school, at best. And even if you do have the academic chops of the average M1 student, so what? There are hordes of 3.7/31 applicants out there who didn't mess up four years of undergrad. The only way you can make yourself marketable to med schools is by making them think you will thrive and excel in med school.

    3.) You will more likely than not end up in a DO school, which shouldn't be a considered a negative. You get to be a doctor in the U.S., which is an incredible privilege. Basically, it's OK to aim for the stars. But if you land on the moon, that's still pretty awesome. Good luck.
     
  25. 20Hopeful16

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    ZedsDed, you need to stop reading SDN so much. It's getting to your head. I don't even know why I am addressing you, when your first post advised me to "do some HW please." Who are you say that? You don't think I've seen that Georgetown school list before you signed up for your SDN account? You CLEARLY have no first hand experience on SMPs besides what you've read on SDN.

    For the record, no one scored higher than a 3.8 in our program. Years down the road, after your first or second year of medical school, you will likely realize that you are out of the running for Alpha Omega Alpha. I want you to come back to this thread and realize how naive you were.

    Thanks again to Goro for providing me with schools to target.
     
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  26. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    I have completed (successfully) a postbacc and I will be starting my SMP in a few weeks.
    Well, you seem to interpret my posts as posturing, which is strange, and which probably says more about you than me. Your response is bizarre. Look, I don't really care if you felt like being thin-skinned today. You come on WAMC with no list, say you have no ideas which schools you should apply to, and then get offended that I interpret that as you having no idea which schools you should apply to. I in no way think I'm better than you, yet you clearly have something to prove. Apparently my complimenting your performance in your SMP wasn't enough for you. You don't like me parroting the opinion of AdCom members, which has literally been expressed countless times both here and on the postbacc forum? Then ignore it, and ignore SDN. I still wish you the best of luck.
    I looked back at my last post, and I see nothing that could even remotely be interpreted as "mean" or disrespectful, even if one is looking to be offended.
     
    #26 ZedsDed, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  27. C02232934

    C02232934 Account on Hold
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    .
     
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  28. fluentshotgun

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    20Hopeful16, as an SMP graduate with a 3.5 GPA that is applying this cycle I think you're getting some pretty realistic advice here.

    I think people throwing out 3.7-3.8 GPA as a requirement to get an MD admission are morons. If you're shooting for any MD then a 3.4 will keep you in the conversation at the bottom tier schools. SMPs are a slog to survive and the one I did was roughly 60% of the M1 year in terms of their course load. We also had our own requirements that weren't challenging but very time consuming. Any decent Admissions Committee will know what your SMP grades represent.

    My advice is based on a) having done an SMP, b) being a pessimist and c) having called/met with 7 different Adcoms at schools I'm applying to this cycle.

    1. Stop thinking/dreaming/hoping/wanting any school that isn't bottom tier. If you get an MD acceptance it is going to be a bottom tier school. That's the reality of the situation. Maybe if you live in a state with supreme IS bias you might get a middle tier school. That's a big if and still likely a no.

    2. Apply MD/DO. Don't put all of your eggs in the MD basket. It's not worth it at your age. Graduates from the better DO schools do quite well for themselves in the match. Don't waste years of your life chasing MD exclusively. Depending on your "soft stats" (EC, state of residency, background, yada, yada, yada) you have at best a 35-40% chance of MD. Your MD applications should focus on the ones GORO posted up thread.

    3. Let the schools know you want to go to their program. Talk to Adcoms about what they want you to improve. Protecting your ego isn't helping you at this point. Everyone that is doing/has done the post-bac/SMP--->medical school route is a flawed applicant. My best friend went from unaccepted in 2013-14 to accepted in 2014-15 cycle without changing anything on their app. How? They applied early and they called the school they wanted to go and asked if they could meet with someone to discuss what they should be doing. The school set it up and they drove 4 hours to be there. This wasn't an interview just a "Hey, I wanna know your program better since I think I want to spend 4 years with you"

    YMMV here but this whole process is like dating, IMO. Everyone wants to feel wanted. Of those 7 Adcoms I've spoken with 3 explicitly told me to mention that I talked with them somewhere on my application or in an update letter. They want to know your serious about a) medical school generally and b) their school specifically.

    Note: This isn't going to make them go from rejecting you to accepting you but it damn well might get you in the room for a late interview.

    4. Get off SDN. Very few people here know what the heck they are talking about. Admissions is a crapshoot. Anyone proclaiming it to be anything else is lying through their teeth. Some places will see a 3.7 post-bac/3.4 SMP/31 MCAT and say to themselves "this guy has the talent to be successful." Others will see 3.0 uGPA and say "Ehh, no thanks." You're undergraduate GPA still counts. Your SMP GPA also counts. Different schools will balance those two differently. Your MCAT won't hurt you for the lower end medical schools. Apply to schools where you MCAT is competitive and keep your fingers crossed.
     
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  29. This.

    Most people ragging on SMP performance have no idea what you've gone through and furthermore know nothing of how those grades were earned. My SMP for example used a different grading scale than the medical students; this made our 92% an A-, while 90% was an A- for the medical students.

    It's a REALLY good idea to have at least one LOR from a professor at your SMP to further explain the program, your character, and your preparedness for medical school.
     
  30. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    What do you want people to say? Nobody is "ragging" on the OP. Nobody is insulting anybody's SMP performance. Nobody is saying that you can't get into an MD school with a <3.7 SMP GPA. I'll say again, OP did a good job. There. That did exactly nothing to help him. I understand the need for those that are applying to stay positive (I really, really do), but that doesn't mean you can come to WAMC and ask people to play along. There are (at least) dozens of anecdotes in the postbacc forum of those with similar SMP stats who ended up going to DO schools. AdCom members themselves have expressed countless times that they expect applicants, especially those with a <3.0 GPA, to do well in their SMP. Whether or not this is fair, is totally irrelevant as to how one is going to get through this incredibly competitive process. Let's say for the sake of argument that you score a 3.2 in your SMP. What would you do if, during one of your interviews for med school, an interviewer asks why you didn't score higher in your SMP? Call him an idiot, explain how competitive SMPs are, and then storm out?
     
    #30 ZedsDed, Aug 6, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
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  31. I wasn't referring to your comments; I think what you said was fine. I'm speaking of the general air around these forums.
     
  32. 20Hopeful16

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    ZedsDed,

    I have no ego. If i did, I wouldn't be opening up my application to DO schools this cycle. I know that a 3.4 SMP gpa isn't ideal, which is exactly why I am clueless... to DO schools, which I mentioned in my original post. I didn't take offense to grapesofwrath's posts when he/she mentioned it may have lowered my chances. that's because I already knew that, hence why I am applying to DO this cycle.

    My contention is that the tone of your posts is self-aggrandizing and straight up pompous. You telling me to do HW, please? And ... "let me make a few points." Dude, you can leave that out of your posts. You're not a pre-med advisor. You're a pre-med. Get off your high horse.

    If you are about to start the GT SMP, i don't know which SMP you're doing.. I surely hope you're not going in thinking it's gonna be only 60% of the M1 work-load. You'll be in for a rude awakening.

    Here's some advice that I hope you take to heart, from someone who did a comparable SMP: how many GT SMPers have you seen posting on SDN with a 3.8+ GPA? Not many right? How many have you seen on mdapplicants, not many. The only only ones I've seen with high GPAs all have gotten into GUSOM, doesn't that suggest 3.8+ GPA in the SMP is ~top 15%? Don't go into the SMP thinking it's gonna be a cake walk. It's not. Good luck to you; I sincerely hope you go in with the right mindset. So you're not in a similar predicament as me.
     
  33. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    I'm not going to try and convince you that my tone was harmless, so I don't think there is anything to be gained by continuing this conversation. I'll take the comment about me not being a pre-med advisor as a compliment.
     
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  34. cardio7

    cardio7 need more epi
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    Just coming out of the GT SMP, I'll confirm a few things:

    I only know of a couple people who got a 3.8+ SMP GPA. It's possible but it rarely happens. There are plenty of us who got into med school (both MD and DO) with GPAs around the average (3.4+), and I think this speaks to the difficulty of the course load of this program. With that said, the SMP represents about 75-80% of the M1 course load. In addition to the med classes, M1s also simultaneously take a doctoring course, which takes up a lot of time but is not as academically rigorous as the lecture classes.

    Goro's list of SMP-friendly schools is pretty solid, and I'd work from that for your school list. ZedsDed's list is good too, though use your personal connections/experiences to narrow down that huge list. Obviously don't apply to all those state schools, just those in your own state. The top-tier schools (Brown, Emory, etc) are a stretch for most, but add those if you have great ECs/LORs/MCAT. EVMS, Albany, Quinnipiac, Creighton, and the private Florida schools seem to like us in particular, and they accepted a bunch of my classmates this year. Georgetown is also worth a shot, though I don't know how friendly they are to students of other SMPs.

    And @fluentshotgun's advice on all points is spot-on. Most realistic post about SMPs that I've seen on this entire forum so far.
     
  35. GrapesofRath

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    There are always conflicting stories and facts about this but do you know by any chance how much of Georgetown's class ends up at a US MD program within 2 years? Over 50%?
     
  36. cardio7

    cardio7 need more epi
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    It's unfortunate that a lot of conflicting information exists, and Georgetown does not release that statistic to us to help set us straight. Therefore a lot of my information is purely anecdotal and is based on my own observation.

    I can't answer your question for sure but maybe I can still be helpful- a classmate made a spreadsheet of GT SMP friends who are attending med schools this fall for the purposes of keeping in touch, and she shared it with me. There are 68 people on the list so far, and 64 of them are attending a US MD school this fall, most of which are mid/low-tier schools or a state school. 3 of those 68 people are attending a DO school this fall, and 1 is attending a Caribbean school.

    This is by no means a complete list of our class, and it leaves more than half of our 185-person cohort unaccounted for. Blindly calculating 64/185, that is at least one-third of the SMP class getting into MD schools during SMP year, and this is just a partial sample of our class. The 1/3 statistic doesn't take into account all the other successful people she didn't ask, or the significant portion of the class (n = unknown by me) that didn't apply for c/o 2019 and should be excluded from the calculation. If nothing else, this just attempts to show that a large number of students do get into MD schools during SMP year. What happens specifically during year 2 remains to be seen, but I am comfortable in stating that the total percentage of US MD acceptances within 2 years will be over 50%. Georgetown is proud to showcase their acceptance rate of 85% within 2 years, but there will definitely be several DO and international (not just caribbean) acceptances thrown in there.

    That's all I've got! My numbers are completely unofficial, and you should take them with a grain of salt. I seriously wish I could get you some real stats.
     
  37. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    Tell your friend to publish the stats on SDN! It's difficult to track everyone down two years after graduation, I'm sure. And thanks!
     
  38. GrapesofRath

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    Yeah the 85% acceptance rate within 2 years is specifically what I was referencing to see if it is possible to know how many of those schools in that stat aren't US MDs.

    Your info is nonetheless quite helpful. 64 confirmed cases of people going to US MD schools next year. G-town takes pride in being a program who gets people into MD schools the very same year but there are those with flawed apps where that is just not possible and a whole year of SMP is showing will be required(or who didn't have the ECs to get in right away). Who knows what that stat of people is and how many people the person in your class didn't get to ask who are going to US MD programs next year. I don't think it's crazy to speculate though based on your year over half your class will end up at a US MD school within the next 2 years.
     
  39. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    One thing to keep in mind is that GT is quite vigilant about updating schools during the cycle with applicant performance in the SMP. So same-year admittance isn't entirely based on your pre-SMP profile.
     
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  40. GrapesofRath

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    True but there are alot of people who also just simply might not have applied this cycle. The SMP program starts well after when you should have an MD application in.
     
  41. ZedsDed

    ZedsDed You know what really grinds my gears?
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    I've always wondered why GT is so adamant about encouraging their students to apply same-year. Certainly the acceptance rate would be higher for the program if more students waited until after they graduated.
     
  42. GrapesofRath

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    Yeah I have heard they tell anybody with a 31+ MCAT apply the same year. I just have a hard time believing your 3.1/31 applicant should be applying that year and that there odds wouldn't be substantially higher if they just waited a year and had a full year of SMP grades.

    The fact at least 1/3 of SMP students are accepted the same year(and if we are making a rough guess maybe 10-15% of the person the OP cited either didn't ask or got off some waitlist after the survey was done) can be attributed to a couple things

    1) there are some pretty solid applicants who are already in these SMPS. Remember the average G'town SMP student is a 3.3/32; they already could have perhaps had their choice of DO schools if they applied broadly before even doing the program.

    2) There are TONS of SMP students who went to grade deflated schools who had some kind of upward trend and honestly don't look at an SMP as all that much harder than what they had to do in undergrad. I had a friend who was a BioE at JHU do one of these a few years ago and was laughing at the program as he graduated with a 3.83 saying "this is all just vomiting back the same facts in your notes on the test. A trained monkey could do that. IN my engineering program you had to think in abstract creative ways that very few people are even capable of to do well. That's why getting B's in those classes is impressive"
     
    #42 GrapesofRath, Aug 8, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2015
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