Hospital Greed is Destroying Our Nurses

[GravelRider]

First off, it’s an opinion piece and not meant to be news/journalism, but I wonder if it kind of explains the lucrative traveling nurse gigs we hear about. It’s probably cheaper for a hospital to “flex” to increased staffing by paying big bucks to nurses for short assignments rather than keeping more full time nurses on staff. Legislation limiting nurse to patient ratios seems to be the logical thing to do, but the hospital lobby is pretty powerful. If CMS can mandate vaccines, couldn’t they step in and mandate certain nursing staffing requirements?

Here is the response from the American Hospital Association:

Blog: New York Times’ Opinion Video Badly Mischaracterizes the Many Workforce Challenges Hospitals and Health Systems Face | AHA News

The American Hospital Association responds to the New York Times Opinion Video "We Know the Real Cause of Crisis in Our Hospitals. It's Greed." For two long years, the dedicated women and men of America’s hospitals and health systems have experienced firsthand the overwhelming impact of...

www.aha.org

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[Guillemot]

CMS will respond by cutting reimbursement rates across the board for physicians. Admittedly, it's a non sequitur response and likely ineffective towards remediating the issue, but its what they will probably do.

 

[chocomorsel]

You don't say. Greed, in hospital systems? Get outta here!!!

 

[anaesthetic]

Eh, at least it’s being talked about on a national level.

We are burning out our OR nurses here without a doubt. Plenty have taken travel contracts and more are planning to leave in the coming weeks. The audacity to blame it on anything other than pure greed… what a world.

 

[ValentineD]

You don't say. Greed, in hospital systems? Get outta here!!!

I've often said medicine is the ideal business. You have a bunch of employees who feel that it is their moral obligation to work, and a bunch of customers who have no choice but to buy what you're selling. Now that's a recipe for making some money.

 

[dantt]

First off, it’s an opinion piece and not meant to be news/journalism, but I wonder if it kind of explains the lucrative traveling nurse gigs we hear about. It’s probably cheaper for a hospital to “flex” to increased staffing by paying big bucks to nurses for short assignments rather than keeping more full time nurses on staff. Legislation limiting nurse to patient ratios seems to be the logical thing to do, but the hospital lobby is pretty powerful. If CMS can mandate vaccines, couldn’t they step in and mandate certain nursing staffing requirements?

Here is the response from the American Hospital Association:

Blog: New York Times’ Opinion Video Badly Mischaracterizes the Many Workforce Challenges Hospitals and Health Systems Face | AHA News

The American Hospital Association responds to the New York Times Opinion Video "We Know the Real Cause of Crisis in Our Hospitals. It's Greed." For two long years, the dedicated women and men of America’s hospitals and health systems have experienced firsthand the overwhelming impact of...

www.aha.org

True. But what about the record profits for many hospitals and administrative/C suite salaries and bonuses?

 

[JOHNBROCHILL]

I especially like the response article which also highlights the nursing shortage. If there is such a shortage, simple economics means you have to treat these people well to retain them due to scarcity. They are here admitting there are market forces making nurses valuable, and their actions prove they do not value them.

Their actual economic view is travel nurses are seen as temporary expenses, whereas large raises for permanent staff will never go away once given. Hospitals would rather pay exorbitant costs to agencies and then cry about price gouging. Treating their actual staff well won't look good on their spreadsheets, so it will be tough for admin to jump to their next job in 1-2 years. I for one hope travel nursing stays highly lucrative and more and more nurses pick up these contracts.

 

[MirrorTodd]

I've often said medicine is the ideal business. You have a bunch of employees who feel that it is their moral obligation to work, and a bunch of customers who have no choice but to buy what you're selling. Now that's a recipe for making some money.

Well damn, if that isn't the hottest take I have read in a long time.

 

[IMGASMD]

I especially like the response article which also highlights the nursing shortage. If there is such a shortage, simple economics means you have to treat these people well to retain them due to scarcity. They are here admitting there are market forces making nurses valuable, and their actions prove they do not value them.

Their actual economic view is travel nurses are seen as temporary expenses, whereas large raises for permanent staff will never go away once given. Hospitals would rather pay exorbitant costs to agencies and then cry about price gouging. Treating their actual staff well won't look good on their spreadsheets, so it will be tough for admin to jump to their next job in 1-2 years. I for one hope travel nursing stays highly lucrative and more and more nurses pick up these contracts.

Me too.
There was a nurse who was showing the rate…. When it was said and done…. Pushing 200k/yr. I was shocked.

“ you may take a holiday or two here and there….”

Sounds like my job I thought. And looking at those rates, maybe some of them will have second thoughts on going to a midlevel school.

 

[GravelRider]

I especially like the response article which also highlights the nursing shortage. If there is such a shortage, simple economics means you have to treat these people well to retain them due to scarcity. They are here admitting there are market forces making nurses valuable, and their actions prove they do not value them.

Their actual economic view is travel nurses are seen as temporary expenses, whereas large raises for permanent staff will never go away once given. Hospitals would rather pay exorbitant costs to agencies and then cry about price gouging. Treating their actual staff well won't look good on their spreadsheets, so it will be tough for admin to jump to their next job in 1-2 years. I for one hope travel nursing stays highly lucrative and more and more nurses pick up these contracts.

I wonder if hospitals dug their own grave with the travel nursing thing. They cut staffing and were hoping to get by with some nurses taking a few overtime shifts when some “flex” was needed, but then covid and you know the rest. Someone saw a vulnerability in that plan and are now charging the hospitals high rates so they can flex staff. The only way out of this for them is to increase staff by increasing pay. There’s only so much that “heroes work here” posters and discounts at the local coffee shop can do.

 

[JOHNBROCHILL]

I wonder if hospitals dug their own grave with the travel nursing thing. They cut staffing and were hoping to get by with some nurses taking a few overtime shifts when some “flex” was needed, but then covid and you know the rest. Someone saw a vulnerability in that plan and are now charging the hospitals high rates so they can flex staff. The only way out of this for them is to increase staff by increasing pay. There’s only so much that “heroes work here” posters and discounts at the local coffee shop can do.

And they have the balls to complain about the $ the travelers charge. It is absolutely their own grave and they are completely shameless about it. I hope they are waking up to the fact that pizza parties and personalized key chains are insulting. Pay your staff.

 

[chocomorsel]

Me too.
There was a nurse who was showing the rate…. When it was said and done…. Pushing 200k/yr. I was shocked.

“ you may take a holiday or two here and there….”

Sounds like my job I thought. And looking at those rates, maybe some of them will have second thoughts on going to a midlevel school.

Try $200 an hour. How much is that? I will tell you because that is the job I was offered out of fellowship. On a 7 off 7 on schedule that is $432K a year. That is 3 days one week and 4 days the next. And you know many of these nurses work like five days a week? So consider the over time. And even with time off between contracts of a month here and there, these nurses are pushing 400k a year. No joke.
Why the heck did I even go to medical school? Had I seen this coming would have stayed a nurse.

 

[chocomorsel]

I especially like the response article which also highlights the nursing shortage. If there is such a shortage, simple economics means you have to treat these people well to retain them due to scarcity. They are here admitting there are market forces making nurses valuable, and their actions prove they do not value them.

Their actual economic view is travel nurses are seen as temporary expenses, whereas large raises for permanent staff will never go away once given. Hospitals would rather pay exorbitant costs to agencies and then cry about price gouging. Treating their actual staff well won't look good on their spreadsheets, so it will be tough for admin to jump to their next job in 1-2 years. I for one hope travel nursing stays highly lucrative and more and more nurses pick up these contracts.

This second paragraph is exactly it. My cousin is a COO out in Californina and this is what he says. He feels conflicted and knows the right thing to do, however, getting corperate to agree to pay the local nurses a decent raise is seen as a waste for ever and they hope Covid will go away but we all know that is not happening for a while.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Health care CEOs raked in $3.2 billion as pandemic raged

CEOs’ median pay rose to $9 million despite record layoffs of health workers.

arstechnica.com

 

[secretasianman]

Same thing they do to physician groups who ask for any increase. For these admins, it’s career suicide to give in to any physician’s demands. They’d rather the whole group leave, then pay more anyways to an AMC dumpster fire to take over.

 

[nimbus]

I thought this was pretty rich. IMO nurses have been severely underpaid for decades and are finally making what they’re worth.

Ballad Health CEO says nursing contract agencies 'distorting' labor market - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

After giving testimony Oct. 7 to a congressional subcommittee on health, Alan Levine, president and CEO of Johnson City, Tenn.-based Ballad Health, spoke to News Channel 11 on the staffing challenges the health system is facing, including labor cost increases caused by contract agencies that he...

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[nimbus]

Health care CEOs raked in $3.2 billion as pandemic raged

CEOs’ median pay rose to $9 million despite record layoffs of health workers.

arstechnica.com

Then there’s this guy, said stupid stuff, forced to resign, and walks away with $50mil. A very busy neurosurgeon might make $50mil during a lonnnnng career. Or you can hire 200 travel nurses to take care of sick covid patients for a year with $50mil. One dude gets it for doing NOTHING. The system is sick 🤒

Ex-Sanford Health CEO got $49.5M payout after departure following unscientific remarks about COVID-19

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. — Former Sanford Health CEO Kelby Krabbenhoft received a $49.5 million payout as part of his abrupt departure from the health system in late 2020, according to federal tax documen…

www.twincities.com

 

[coffeebythelake]

Then there’s this guy, said stupid stuff, forced to resign, and walks away with $50mil. A very busy neurosurgeon might make $50mil during a lonnnnng career. Or you can hire 200 travel nurses to take care of sick covid patients for a year with $50mil. One dude gets it for doing NOTHING. The system is sick 🤒

Ex-Sanford Health CEO got $49.5M payout after departure following unscientific remarks about COVID-19

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. — Former Sanford Health CEO Kelby Krabbenhoft received a $49.5 million payout as part of his abrupt departure from the health system in late 2020, according to federal tax documen…

www.twincities.com

****ing ridiculous

 

[Blockit]

Then there’s this guy, said stupid stuff, forced to resign, and walks away with $50mil. A very busy neurosurgeon might make $50mil during a lonnnnng career. Or you can hire 200 travel nurses to take care of sick covid patients for a year with $50mil. One dude gets it for doing NOTHING. The system is sick 🤒

Ex-Sanford Health CEO got $49.5M payout after departure following unscientific remarks about COVID-19

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. — Former Sanford Health CEO Kelby Krabbenhoft received a $49.5 million payout as part of his abrupt departure from the health system in late 2020, according to federal tax documen…

www.twincities.com

I think there were people recently who were talking about “white privilege”; In my mind if you’re going to label someone with that label this guy rises to the top of the list.

 

[kidthor]

Then there’s this guy, said stupid stuff, forced to resign, and walks away with $50mil. A very busy neurosurgeon might make $50mil during a lonnnnng career. Or you can hire 200 travel nurses to take care of sick covid patients for a year with $50mil. One dude gets it for doing NOTHING. The system is sick 🤒

Ex-Sanford Health CEO got $49.5M payout after departure following unscientific remarks about COVID-19

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. — Former Sanford Health CEO Kelby Krabbenhoft received a $49.5 million payout as part of his abrupt departure from the health system in late 2020, according to federal tax documen…

www.twincities.com

Meanwhile all these hospitals argue over whether they'll pay for coffee in the breakroom and make us pay for parking (hell they make the nurses pay for parking at a far away lot and bus them in!!). But they have millions for this kind of swell guy.

 

[secretasianman]

Unregulated capitalism at it's finest. Big healthcare conglomerates with no antitrust statutes, no workers' rights. A wealth transfer system that supports massive CEO salaries and stockholder returns. Private equity overlords telling physicians to generate more RVUs and use more mid levels to increase the bottom line but somehow this isn't considered influencing the practice of medicine so it's legally sound. 'Murica fuk yea!

 

[ValentineD]

Unregulated capitalism at it's finest. Big healthcare conglomerates with no antitrust statutes, no workers' rights. A wealth transfer system that supports massive CEO salaries and stockholder returns. Private equity overlords telling physicians to generate more RVUs and use more mid levels to increase the bottom line but somehow this isn't considered influencing the practice of medicine so it's legally sound. 'Murica fuk yea!

One of the greatest ruses ever pulled on the American people was convincing them that unionization was "socialist" or "communist." So workers have free speech, the right to peaceably assemble, and the right to sell their labor for wages? Yet the minute they try to sell their labor as a package it's a problem? Perhaps it is, but a problem for whom?

 

[allantois]

How have these criminals taken control of the healthcare system??

 

[OptionOffense]

complete propaganda.

 

[OptionOffense]

Unregulated capitalism at it's finest.

When you say unregulated, I assume you mean CRONY capitalism. If that is what you mean I agree with you a million percent.

Unregulated capitalism is what you want. Cronyism is what you DONT want.

 

[Hoya11]

First off, it’s an opinion piece and not meant to be news/journalism, but I wonder if it kind of explains the lucrative traveling nurse gigs we hear about. It’s probably cheaper for a hospital to “flex” to increased staffing by paying big bucks to nurses for short assignments rather than keeping more full time nurses on staff. Legislation limiting nurse to patient ratios seems to be the logical thing to do, but the hospital lobby is pretty powerful. If CMS can mandate vaccines, couldn’t they step in and mandate certain nursing staffing requirements?

Here is the response from the American Hospital Association:

Blog: New York Times’ Opinion Video Badly Mischaracterizes the Many Workforce Challenges Hospitals and Health Systems Face | AHA News

The American Hospital Association responds to the New York Times Opinion Video "We Know the Real Cause of Crisis in Our Hospitals. It's Greed." For two long years, the dedicated women and men of America’s hospitals and health systems have experienced firsthand the overwhelming impact of...

www.aha.org

What about a ~400 bed hospital in a very poor depressed area outside of a large city?

Lots of poor population. Lots of trauma and disease. No industry in the area.

Minimal insurance. Hard and expensive to recruit doctors.

How is this hospital supposed to make money?

I have been in many hospital financial meetings in my role representing my group, and although the place seems financially stable, not exactly a BOOMING business model.

Our CEO is paid ~1 million. Several business cronies (~10) make 4-500k.

They are managing several hundred million with many challenges.

I suspect that part of the problem with paying the nurses and providers better is that some hospitals really are not doing great and need more government support.

Our hospitals should not be S holes barely able to survive financially except for a few people at the top. If insurance companies aren't going to pay enough to accomplish that, then the government needs to because currently its unacceptable.

Not saying this is the case with all hospitals, but for many hospitals they face a gloom outlook from the get-go as determined by their area and population.

 

[OptionOffense]

I suspect that part of the problem with paying the nurses and providers better is that some hospitals really are not doing great and need more government support.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! This is absolutely NOT the answer. This will make the problem WORSE.

 

[IMGASMD]

What about a ~400 bed hospital in a very poor depressed area outside of a large city?

Lots of poor population. Lots of trauma and disease. No industry in the area.

Minimal insurance. Hard and expensive to recruit doctors.

How is this hospital supposed to make money?

I have been in many hospital financial meetings in my role representing my group, and although the place seems financially stable, not exactly a BOOMING business model.

Our CEO is paid ~1 million. Several business cronies (~10) make 4-500k.

They are managing several hundred million with many challenges.

I suspect that part of the problem with paying the nurses and providers better is that some hospitals really are not doing great and need more government support.

Our hospitals should not be S holes barely able to survive financially except for a few people at the top. If insurance companies aren't going to pay enough to accomplish that, then the government needs to because currently its unacceptable.

Not saying this is the case with all hospitals, but for many hospitals they face a gloom outlook from the get-go as determined by their area and population.

I feel there are some conflicting ideas here.

Are you saying they deserve the salary or they don’t?

They’re in charge of lots of money but most of them especially in the bigger cities/systems move around with matrix I yet understand, and probably never will.

I worked at a small hospital for a 7 years. During that time, the hospital had three different CEOs. Two different health care systems. It was a small independent hospital before I started, when I left, it’s now being managed by a private hospital system, with the power that be 500 miles away. The last I heard they are shutting down their labor and delivery. Basically means all the residents will have to travel at least an hour away for any ob problems.

Rather than paying a CEO 10s of millions, few states away, I’d rather they find a local guy/gal, or a physician with a local tie to manage the hospital. Then try to channel that money back to the hospital.

 

[GassYous]

What about a ~400 bed hospital in a very poor depressed area outside of a large city?

Lots of poor population. Lots of trauma and disease. No industry in the area.

Minimal insurance. Hard and expensive to recruit doctors.

How is this hospital supposed to make money?

I have been in many hospital financial meetings in my role representing my group, and although the place seems financially stable, not exactly a BOOMING business model.

Our CEO is paid ~1 million. Several business cronies (~10) make 4-500k.

They are managing several hundred million with many challenges.

I suspect that part of the problem with paying the nurses and providers better is that some hospitals really are not doing great and need more government support.

Our hospitals should not be S holes barely able to survive financially except for a few people at the top. If insurance companies aren't going to pay enough to accomplish that, then the government needs to because currently its unacceptable.

Not saying this is the case with all hospitals, but for many hospitals they face a gloom outlook from the get-go as determined by their area and population.

If they aren't making money, they can't be paying themselves millions

 

[deleted126335]

If they aren't making money, they can't be paying themselves millions

Haven't you heard of debt?

 

[IMGASMD]

Haven't you heard of debt?

Or somehow sell that debt to someone pennies on the dollar…. And still comes out ahead….

 

[Southpaw]

If they aren't making money, they can't be paying themselves millions

Surely you jest….. this is America.

 

[GassYous]

Surely you jest….. this is America.

Yeah remember when all those companies that got bailouts started paying bonuses to their execs?

 

[Proudfather94]

First off, it’s an opinion piece and not meant to be news/journalism, but I wonder if it kind of explains the lucrative traveling nurse gigs we hear about. It’s probably cheaper for a hospital to “flex” to increased staffing by paying big bucks to nurses for short assignments rather than keeping more full time nurses on staff. Legislation limiting nurse to patient ratios seems to be the logical thing to do, but the hospital lobby is pretty powerful. If CMS can mandate vaccines, couldn’t they step in and mandate certain nursing staffing requirements?

Here is the response from the American Hospital Association:

Blog: New York Times’ Opinion Video Badly Mischaracterizes the Many Workforce Challenges Hospitals and Health Systems Face | AHA News

The American Hospital Association responds to the New York Times Opinion Video "We Know the Real Cause of Crisis in Our Hospitals. It's Greed." For two long years, the dedicated women and men of America’s hospitals and health systems have experienced firsthand the overwhelming impact of...

www.aha.org

I love the deflection that is present in the second article. The hospital I worked at had just enough staff to function and then rode everyone and pushed them right up to the breaking point to maximize productivity. The pandemic happened and the added stress put alot of workers over the edge and they quit. The hospital was trying to just blame the pandemic for everyone leaving to try to absolve thereselves of any accountability.

Basically what the hospital did would be like if I built a house on a crappy foundation, a storm tears the house down, and I go "it doesn't matter how I built the house the storm tore it down I'm not responsible."

 

[nimbus]

When you say unregulated, I assume you mean CRONY capitalism. If that is what you mean I agree with you a million percent.

Unregulated capitalism is what you want. Cronyism is what you DONT want.

Isn’t cronyism a natural consequence of unregulated. Unless there are rules to prevent it, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.

 

[nimbus]

I love the deflection that is present in the second article. The hospital I worked at had just enough staff to function and then rode everyone and pushed them right up to the breaking point to maximize productivity. The pandemic happened and the added stress put alot of workers over the edge and they quit. The hospital was trying to just blame the pandemic for everyone leaving to try to absolve thereselves of any accountability.

Basically what the hospital did would be like if I built a house on a crappy foundation, a storm tears the house down, and I go "it doesn't matter how I built the house the storm tore it down I'm not responsible."

Yes. Before the pandemic hospitals were intentionally trying to operate as close to capacity as possible. As an anesthesia group, we were too. It’s the most efficient and profitable way to run a business. Then when the Covid crisis hit, hospitals were struggling to meet the demand for more services. Extra capacity is expensive.

 

[Proudfather94]

Yes. Before the pandemic hospitals were intentionally trying to operate as close to capacity as possible. As an anesthesia group, we were too. It’s the most efficient and profitable way to run a business. Then when the Covid crisis hit, hospitals were struggling to meet the demand for more services. Extra capacity is expensive.

It sucks for the patients that they get a lower quality of care because that business model backfired on the hospitals and staff quit.

 

[anbuitachi]

i mean its not just the hospitals fault, its the entire system. the greed isnt just at the hospital level, but also government level, lawyer level, insurance level, and even physician/nurses have greed as well.

government says healthcare is a RIGHT, but refuse to pay. if they refuse to pay fair reimbursement for medicaid/medicare to allow hospitals to hire and keep staff, then the GOVERNMENT is greedy for having that expectation.

lawyers are greedy by providing and advertising FREE lawsuits for 'injuries', resulting in defensive medicine, and truckload of administrators to decrease hospital lawsuits and increase joint commission compliance.

physicians are sometimes greedy for doing more tests than they need, more procedures than they need, and not focusing on the part of care that is just as important, but doesnt pay as well

insurances are greedy cause they are for profit, so they are in the game to make money, not help people

 

[anbuitachi]

First off, it’s an opinion piece and not meant to be news/journalism, but I wonder if it kind of explains the lucrative traveling nurse gigs we hear about. It’s probably cheaper for a hospital to “flex” to increased staffing by paying big bucks to nurses for short assignments rather than keeping more full time nurses on staff. Legislation limiting nurse to patient ratios seems to be the logical thing to do, but the hospital lobby is pretty powerful. If CMS can mandate vaccines, couldn’t they step in and mandate certain nursing staffing requirements?

Here is the response from the American Hospital Association:

Blog: New York Times’ Opinion Video Badly Mischaracterizes the Many Workforce Challenges Hospitals and Health Systems Face | AHA News

The American Hospital Association responds to the New York Times Opinion Video "We Know the Real Cause of Crisis in Our Hospitals. It's Greed." For two long years, the dedicated women and men of America’s hospitals and health systems have experienced firsthand the overwhelming impact of...

www.aha.org

i wish PHYSICIANS made a video like this. we have such bad publicity in this country its insane!
almost all this apply to us as well. many of us dont have the work hours or patient ratio protections. work hour limit doesnt even exist for attendings unlike residents.

nurses benefit in working ~40 hrs a week, and having time and resources (often provided by employer) to pursue further education. eventually allowing them to LEAVE and do another job (administration or whatever). we have multiple nurses here getting masters and PhD at the same time, while working full time. It'd be almost impossible as a physician. Our loans keep us tied down as well. We need publicity campaigns like this even more! we are spread thin, overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated. we dont have the right to strike, or even right to refuse vaccine (here)

 

[OptionOffense]

Isn’t cronyism a natural consequence of unregulated. Unless there are rules to prevent it, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.

Cronyism is quite the opposite in my opinion. Cronyism is what is happening in medicine. The regulatory burden is so enormous that only certain players are able to meet the burden that has been established by the govt at the behest(theyve been bought out) of the players(hospital conglomerates, private equite etc) to keep certain players ( private physicians, smaller competitive surgery centers, other hospitals) out of the market or drive them out of the market. This is exactly what you are seeing in medicine. They have run everyone out of business.

Once the consolidation has firmly been established, they dont have to worry about quality. Where are you going to go? Somewhere else? There is no "somewhere else" which should scare the bejeezus out of everyone.
IN unregulated capitalism, you would have enormous and tons of choices (just like a grocery store) and this, in and of itself, would keep prices in check and quality at the forefront.
As it stands now, healthcare is probably the dirtiest business in existence.
Capitalism is under attack because the government hates capitalism. They would love to be control of every aspect of your life. Socialism and Communism

 

[DocVapor]

i mean its not just the hospitals fault, its the entire system. the greed isnt just at the hospital level, but also government level, lawyer level, insurance level, and even physician/nurses have greed as well.

government says healthcare is a RIGHT, but refuse to pay. if they refuse to pay fair reimbursement for medicaid/medicare to allow hospitals to hire and keep staff, then the GOVERNMENT is greedy for having that expectation.

lawyers are greedy by providing and advertising FREE lawsuits for 'injuries', resulting in defensive medicine, and truckload of administrators to decrease hospital lawsuits and increase joint commission compliance.

physicians are sometimes greedy for doing more tests than they need, more procedures than they need, and not focusing on the part of care that is just as important, but doesnt pay as well

insurances are greedy cause they are for profit, so they are in the game to make money, not help people

Don't forget patient's greed for expecting maximum amounts and quality of care without paying for it.

 

[anbuitachi]

Don't forget patient's greed for expecting maximum amounts and quality of care without paying for it.

well said

 

[anbuitachi]

Cronyism is quite the opposite in my opinion. Cronyism is what is happening in medicine. The regulatory burden is so enormous that only certain players are able to meet the burden and has been established by the govt at the behest(theyve been bought out) of the players(hospital conglomerates, private equite etc) to keep certain players ( private physicians, smaller competitive surgery centers, other hospitals) out of the market or drive them out of the market. This is exactly what you are seeing in medicine. They have run everyone out of business.

Once the consolidation has firmly been established, they dont have to worry about quality. Where are you going to go? Somewhere else? There is no "somewhere else" which should scare the bejeezus out of everyone.
IN unregulated capitalism, you would have enormous and tons of choices (just like a grocery store) and this, in and of itself, would keep prices in check and quality at the forefront.
As it stands now, healthcare is probably the dirtiest business in existence.
Capitalism is under attack because the government hates capitalism. They would love to be control of every aspect of your life. Socialism and Communism

agree.
nothing will be fixed in short term. but its so difficult to fix that many doctors dont bother at all.
we arent the same as nurses, but nurses are light years ahead of us in advocating for their profession. in a way, we physicians allowed a lot of this to happen to ourselves. its ridiculous we cant even strike like nurses do. that we dont have full time defined, and have OT pay 1.5x, that most of us dont have pension that way more nurses have (here). we set ourselves up for abuse

 

[narcotics999]

agree.
nothing will be fixed in short term. but its so difficult to fix that many doctors dont bother at all.
we arent the same as nurses, but nurses are light years ahead of us in advocating for their profession. in a way, we physicians allowed a lot of this to happen to ourselves. its ridiculous we cant even strike like nurses do. that we dont have full time defined, and have OT pay 1.5x, that most of us dont have pension that way more nurses have (here). we set ourselves up for abuse

How about standing up for yourself by ditching your shxtty job first?

 

[Proudfather94]

i mean its not just the hospitals fault, its the entire system. the greed isnt just at the hospital level, but also government level, lawyer level, insurance level, and even physician/nurses have greed as well.

government says healthcare is a RIGHT, but refuse to pay. if they refuse to pay fair reimbursement for medicaid/medicare to allow hospitals to hire and keep staff, then the GOVERNMENT is greedy for having that expectation.

lawyers are greedy by providing and advertising FREE lawsuits for 'injuries', resulting in defensive medicine, and truckload of administrators to decrease hospital lawsuits and increase joint commission compliance.

physicians are sometimes greedy for doing more tests than they need, more procedures than they need, and not focusing on the part of care that is just as important, but doesnt pay as well

insurances are greedy cause they are for profit, so they are in the game to make money, not help people

Physician greed gets punished while hospital greed gets rewarded. If you order too many unnecessary tests you'll get audited, the hospital gets the national guard to come in and help.

The govt has no room to talk about greed when they are using student loans as basically a new form of tax on my generation so we're in agreement there.

Insurance needs way more regulation as they are screwing everyone.

 

[Hoya11]

I feel there are some conflicting ideas here.

Are you saying they deserve the salary or they don’t?

They’re in charge of lots of money but most of them especially in the bigger cities/systems move around with matrix I yet understand, and probably never will.

I worked at a small hospital for a 7 years. During that time, the hospital had three different CEOs. Two different health care systems. It was a small independent hospital before I started, when I left, it’s now being managed by a private hospital system, with the power that be 500 miles away. The last I heard they are shutting down their labor and delivery. Basically means all the residents will have to travel at least an hour away for any ob problems.

Rather than paying a CEO 10s of millions, few states away, I’d rather they find a local guy/gal, or a physician with a local tie to manage the hospital. Then try to channel that money back to the hospital.

i dont think anyone deserves 10M especially in healthcare when real folks in the trenches are hurting..

but i guess what im saying is, the difference between the CEO making 500k or 1M is not taking money out of the nurses pockets and would not solve the problem of a hospital tens of millions in debt .

we look at the CEOs making 1M instead of 500k. They look at us making 500k instead of 300k. Neither are the problem. The system is strained to begin with. Making obscene amounts of money like 8+Million is inappropriate obviously, but thats not the same as 800k-1M which most CEOs of a single hospital make.

 

[nimbus]

Cronyism is quite the opposite in my opinion. Cronyism is what is happening in medicine. The regulatory burden is so enormous that only certain players are able to meet the burden that has been established by the govt at the behest(theyve been bought out) of the players(hospital conglomerates, private equite etc) to keep certain players ( private physicians, smaller competitive surgery centers, other hospitals) out of the market or drive them out of the market. This is exactly what you are seeing in medicine. They have run everyone out of business.

Once the consolidation has firmly been established, they dont have to worry about quality. Where are you going to go? Somewhere else? There is no "somewhere else" which should scare the bejeezus out of everyone.
IN unregulated capitalism, you would have enormous and tons of choices (just like a grocery store) and this, in and of itself, would keep prices in check and quality at the forefront.
As it stands now, healthcare is probably the dirtiest business in existence.
Capitalism is under attack because the government hates capitalism. They would love to be control of every aspect of your life. Socialism and Communism

It’s not just healthcare. Look at retail. Amazon and big box stores wiped out mom and pops. Telecom has only 3-4 players. We can get ripped off by AT&T or we can get ripped off by Verizon. The US government no longer enforces antitrust laws because the government is owned by large corporations.

 

[OptionOffense]

It’s not just healthcare. Look at retail. Amazon and big box stores wiped out mom and pops. Telecom has only 3-4 players. We can get ripped off by AT&T or we can get ripped off by Verizon. The US government no longer enforces antitrust laws because the government is owned by large corporations.

Consolidation in every industry is 'no bueno'. This is the crux of the problem. Joe Biden in his 2 hour press conference at the beginning started talking about it. He stated there are only 4 companies in charge of delivering meat to this country. Only 4 left. Then he continued and said, "Capitalism without competition is exploitation". Really the only thing Joe Biden has said that I agree with. Early in his presidency, he had a wash post article describing the problem.
In my opinion, Cronyism is more damaging in the healthcare arena because not only do you have cronyism, but the consumer does not even drive it and there is no choice. It is fubar. It would take years to unravel the web of corruption in healthcare amde possible by the ACA.

 

[anbuitachi]

How about standing up for yourself by ditching your shxtty job first?

haha i JUST got another raise!
one of the good part about anesthesiology is i can only cover 1 room by myself at a time.

 

[anbuitachi]

Consolidation in every industry is 'no bueno'. This is the crux of the problem. Joe Biden in his 2 hour press conference at the beginning started talking about it. He stated there are only 4 companies in charge of delivering meat to this country. Only 4 left. Then he continued and said, "Capitalism without competition is exploitation". Really the only thing Joe Biden has said that I agree with. Early in his presidency, he had a wash post article describing the problem.
In my opinion, Cronyism is more damaging in the healthcare arena because not only do you have cronyism, but the consumer does not even drive it and there is no choice. It is fubar. It would take years to unravel the web of corruption in healthcare amde possible by the ACA.

cant compare healthcare to others since the government decides what the reimbursement is for millions of people and could care less if hospitals/practice survive or not. they are forced to consolidate to survive. guaranteed there'll be less consolidation if medicaid paid more than 10$ a hour