Housebreaking Issues... input please!

[MonkeyLove]

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Hey Everyone,
I have been having some issues with my dog having 'accidents' in the house. My fiance and I are trying everything we can think of 😕 , but I think it is time for some new ideas... I know there are some very knowledgeable and experienced members on this forum, so please share you wisdom with me!
Our dog is a chihuahua that we adopted from a shelter 1 1/2 years ago. He had some behavioral issues and had just been neutered (at the age of 2), all of which we knew when we adopted him. We have been working really hard on his behavioral issues, and have made a huge amount of progress (he has turned into a really sweet dog and is finally comfortable with most new people in the house). At the time he was also mostly housebroken, meaning he needed to be crated while we were out of the house, but was good when we were home, even with free run of the house.
Then we got a second dog, and our first, even after establishing his dominant role as top dog (but below humans), started pooping in the house. To try to re-housebreak him we have been doing several things:
In the morning or when we get home and let him out of his crate we immediately go outside with him and give him a treat and praise if he goes pee and poo, and if he doesn't then we put him on a leash attached to our belt so that he can't run off and poop somewhere in the house. However, our problem now is that there are times when he poops outside so we let him off the leash but then 30 minutes later he poops again, but on the rug. 🙁 We have also tried several different foods and that doesn't seem to have much of an affect.
So at this point I am unsure of what else we can be doing to make his training more effective... any ideas? I could really use some advice, or even just input that with more time he will eventually catch on...
Thanks so much in advance for any help!!! 😳

 

[Crazy Hippos]

Hm, I don't have much experience with this, but have you thought about wee wee pad training your dogs? My dog refused to do her business outside for the longest time so I trained her to go on the pad and she hasn't had a single accident since. Technically, they would still be going inside the house, but at least it would be on the pad!

 

[Angelo84]

You have a good start on the training. If he is able to go poop on the rug you weren't watching closely enough. So if you are not directly interacting with him he should be on lead or crated. Either way you need to control the environment so the only opportunities he has to pee and poop are outside. You also want to make sure that you clean up any accident spots with an enzymatic cleaner otherwise he will be drawn back to that spot. Also meal feeding him may help put him on more of a schedule as far as when he needs to poop.

Good luck.

 

[luplodw]

My roommate and I trained our dog to ring a set of bells attached to a doorknob when she has to potty. We just would take her outside to potty and ring the bells as we went out the door. Eventually she started to ring them by herself. Maybe this will give you an idea of when your dog needs to go

 

[August West]

However, our problem now is that there are times when he poops outside so we let him off the leash but then 30 minutes later he poops again, but on the rug. 🙁 We have also tried several different foods and that doesn't seem to have much of an affect.
So at this point I am unsure of what else we can be doing to make his training more effective... any ideas? I could really use some advice, or even just input that with more time he will eventually catch on...
Thanks so much in advance for any help!!! 😳

Does the timing of his meals have to do with this problem? I have dealt with many pets and fosters and I have rarely, if never, experienced a dog pooping outside and then needing to poop again that soon after unless he was eating in between. Not sure if this is the case, but you might want to experiment with the timing of when he receives his meals.

 

[twelvetigers]

My dog can poop like 5x in a row, lol. She doesn't go inside, but if we take her for a walk she has to stop several times. So now, before we walk her, I make her poop at least two times. Then she's usually okay.

Not relevant, just sayin'. 🙂

 

[August West]

My dog can poop like 5x in a row, lol. She doesn't go inside, but if we take her for a walk she has to stop several times. So now, before we walk her, I make her poop at least two times. Then she's usually okay.

Not relevant, just sayin'. 🙂

That is outstanding! Maybe in the back of her mind she still thinks she should be rewarded with a treat on a per-doodie basis.

 

[NStarz]

I have a few suggestions. Feel free to follow as much or as little as this as you'd like.

Try to figure out exactly 'when' he is making in the house. Keep a schedule, a diary of sorts. Try to pinpoint the common denominators in each situation. How long before was he fed? Where was he in relation to the other dog? What were you doing at the time? What were you/he doing before the accident? How long was the last time he went out?

All of these things are very important and can help you pinpoint the problem. We figured out with my older dog, that when we went up to eat dinner and left her alone in the family room, she would have an accident. Now, every time before we eat we let her out to make so she doesn't have an accident.

Without knowing your dogs, it's difficult to say exactly what the issue might be. It sounds like you're on the right track.

Are you crating him right now? I can't tell from your post, but I can see you crated him in the past. That may be helpful. I think what may have happened is that the new dog in the house upset the situation and your first dog is trying to get attention in some fashion or is stressed out by the other dog in your home. Both of those things can be easily remedied, don't worry! (And there may be other possibilities as well, just speculating with what little I know.) Crating may be helpful in this situation--dogs don't like to pee/poop where they sleep. So if you have a crate where your chi is just able to stand up, turn around, and lay down, he won't have much room to do anything else. He'll get the message pretty quickly, especially if this just seems to be a lapse in training, "forgetting" if you will. I would recommend crating him when you are not on top of him, at least for a while. If you're going to make a phone call in another room, let him hang out in his crate. If you're cooking dinner, put him in his crate. It's NOT punishment and will reinforce the times that when he does go out to make, it's time to go potty, and that's the only time he should do so.

You're doing good with the positive reinforcement after he makes. Maybe when he does go outside, instead of in, give him an extra special treat or a special toy he only gets to play with when he makes outside. Once he stops going in the house so often, you can wean him out of his crate.

One person mentioned wee-wee pads. It can be a good idea, in the short term. However, if your main goal is to eventually have your chi going outside to go potty, it's taking an unnecessary extra step to do so. Instead of just learning to go make outside, your dog will have to learn to go on the wee-wee pad, then learn to go outside, which is a difficult transition and often more time consuming than just training them to go outside in the first place.

I would also recommend taking him to the vet to get him tested for UTI and other problems that may be affecting his urination/defecation schedule.

These are all just suggestions. If all else fails, I would recommend seeking out a trainer/veterinary behaviorist who utilizes only POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT methods in their work. There's only so much advice we're going to be able to give you over the internet.

Good luck! And feel free to PM me with any questions!

Sources: I'm an adoption counselor at a large animal shelter and often have to deal with such issues.

 

[MonkeyLove]

Thanks for the input! I agree, I think we just need to be more vigilant watching him, even right after he has already pooped.
I think that maybe a walk after dinner (instead of randomly during the day or evening) will help get him on a schedule and that will help with the issue...
It is weird though, I am pretty sure it is dominance pooping because it started right after we got our second dog (who is perfectly housebroken), but he has definitely established his dominance, I guess this is still just a left-over part?
Also, how long do you guys think it will take of the constant crate/leash before he learns well enough to have a bit more freedom in the house?

 

[MonkeyLove]

I have a few suggestions. Feel free to follow as much or as little as this as you'd like.

Try to figure out exactly 'when' he is making in the house. Keep a schedule, a diary of sorts. Try to pinpoint the common denominators in each situation. How long before was he fed? Where was he in relation to the other dog? What were you doing at the time? What were you/he doing before the accident? How long was the last time he went out?

All of these things are very important and can help you pinpoint the problem. We figured out with my older dog, that when we went up to eat dinner and left her alone in the family room, she would have an accident. Now, every time before we eat we let her out to make so she doesn't have an accident.

Without knowing your dogs, it's difficult to say exactly what the issue might be. It sounds like you're on the right track.

Are you crating him right now? I can't tell from your post, but I can see you crated him in the past. That may be helpful. I think what may have happened is that the new dog in the house upset the situation and your first dog is trying to get attention in some fashion or is stressed out by the other dog in your home. Both of those things can be easily remedied, don't worry! (And there may be other possibilities as well, just speculating with what little I know.) Crating may be helpful in this situation--dogs don't like to pee/poop where they sleep. So if you have a crate where your chi is just able to stand up, turn around, and lay down, he won't have much room to do anything else. He'll get the message pretty quickly, especially if this just seems to be a lapse in training, "forgetting" if you will. I would recommend crating him when you are not on top of him, at least for a while. If you're going to make a phone call in another room, let him hang out in his crate. If you're cooking dinner, put him in his crate. It's NOT punishment and will reinforce the times that when he does go out to make, it's time to go potty, and that's the only time he should do so.

You're doing good with the positive reinforcement after he makes. Maybe when he does go outside, instead of in, give him an extra special treat or a special toy he only gets to play with when he makes outside. Once he stops going in the house so often, you can wean him out of his crate.

One person mentioned wee-wee pads. It can be a good idea, in the short term. However, if your main goal is to eventually have your chi going outside to go potty, it's taking an unnecessary extra step to do so. Instead of just learning to go make outside, your dog will have to learn to go on the wee-wee pad, then learn to go outside, which is a difficult transition and often more time consuming than just training them to go outside in the first place.

I would also recommend taking him to the vet to get him tested for UTI and other problems that may be affecting his urination/defecation schedule.

These are all just suggestions. If all else fails, I would recommend seeking out a trainer/veterinary behaviorist who utilizes only POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT methods in their work. There's only so much advice we're going to be able to give you over the internet.

Good luck! And feel free to PM me with any questions!

Sources: I'm an adoption counselor at a large animal shelter and often have to deal with such issues.

I think you are pretty much on the money!
I really like the idea of the notebook, it would be great to figure out some possible patterns 😳

 

[Minnerbelle]

My dog can poop like 5x in a row, lol. She doesn't go inside, but if we take her for a walk she has to stop several times. So now, before we walk her, I make her poop at least two times. Then she's usually okay.

Not relevant, just sayin'. 🙂

YES!!! My little yorkie loved to poo when out on a walk and would go like 5x in a row. The first one was always totally normal. Then, the second one was smaller. Then the third one got kinda mushy. Then the fourth one was just a tiny puddle of diarrhea. And by the fifth or sixth one, she'd be running out of ammo and she would strain and let out maybe a drop of diarrhea...

same thing with pees. i guess she really wanted to mark but she was too small to reach where the big dogs went... so she would do a handstand, walk, and pee all at the same time. and she would stop every 2 min to mark some more until she was out of ammo.

so between the pees and poos it drove me crazy (cause i hadda at least attempt to try and pick up any bit of poo to not look irresponsible... but c'mon a 1 mL drop of diarrhea???) and after about 10 min of peeing and pooing, she'd stop, wag her tail, and put her paws on my legs to signal me to carry her the rest of the way home...

funny thing is, she only did this when she went out for walks. if she was going inside on a wee wee pad (she was with us from the time we lived in japan, and that's just how it's done over there since everyone lives in highrises) or goign out in the backyard, she would have very normal pees and poos....

anyhoos, sorry for the highjack, but i hadda share. good luck to the OP with potty training your chi!

 

[BarnyardPunch]

So I know I'll probably catch all kinds of heck for this, but over the course of my life I've had lots of dogs all either pound puppies or Guiding Eye puppies and positive reinforcement worked on every one of them.

Except two (10 years apart from each other). One Guiding Eye Lab and one two year old Lab mix from the pound. The Guiding Eye Lab even had free access to a multiple acre yard at all times but insisted on pooping IN the house. When every other option in the entire book had been exhausted, I finally broke down and you guessed it... Stuck their noses in it and yelled "NO MORE."

And guess what? There was no more poop from either of them. Ever.

I'm not suggesting that this'll work with your Chi or that you should even try it. Just one case of when Grandpa got to say "I told you so, shoulda done that weeks ago."

 

[MonkeyLove]

haha, thank you for the input BarnyardPunch! I am not sure if this is characteristic of all chi's, but mine could really care less if I am firm with him... If he is doing something bad like chewing on a pillow (he needed a new round of toys and bones!) and I firmly say, "No!", he just looks at me and then continues chewing... they just don't have that same need to please that other dogs have 🙁
But when he curls up or runs around playing and is as cute as can be, he is perfect in his own way 😉
Oh, and cowgirla, my chi has started doing the same thing! He runs up the the door and gives me a look like, "I have to go soooo bad, please let me out!" and then steps outside, sniffs the ground for two seconds, and then looks at me expecting a treat... at least I know he is extremely motivated by food rewards!😛

 

[NStarz]

I would suggest you exhaust all positive reinforcement options before you resort to positive punishment. And if necessary, be sure to only do so under the guidance of an animal behavior professional as things can get out of hand quickly (no disrespect intended!).

Good luck and keep us apprised!

 

[MonkeyLove]

I would suggest you exhaust all positive reinforcement options before you resort to positive punishment. And if necessary, be sure to only do so under the guidance of an animal behavior professional as things can get out of hand quickly (no disrespect intended!).

Good luck and keep us apprised!

None taken! 😉
We've got plenty of rewarding and ideas still to be tried... actually, he hasn't had any mistakes since we got stricter with the leash/crate rules and additional food rewards, so I think we are on the right track! Thanks guys 😀

 

[Chapelle]

YES!!! My little yorkie loved to poo when out on a walk and would go like 5x in a row. The first one was always totally normal. Then, the second one was smaller. Then the third one got kinda mushy. Then the fourth one was just a tiny puddle of diarrhea. And by the fifth or sixth one, she'd be running out of ammo and she would strain and let out maybe a drop of diarrhea...

same thing with pees. i guess she really wanted to mark but she was too small to reach where the big dogs went... so she would do a handstand, walk, and pee all at the same time. and she would stop every 2 min to mark some more until she was out of ammo.

so between the pees and poos it drove me crazy (cause i hadda at least attempt to try and pick up any bit of poo to not look irresponsible... but c'mon a 1 mL drop of diarrhea???) and after about 10 min of peeing and pooing, she'd stop, wag her tail, and put her paws on my legs to signal me to carry her the rest of the way home...

funny thing is, she only did this when she went out for walks. if she was going inside on a wee wee pad (she was with us from the time we lived in japan, and that's just how it's done over there since everyone lives in highrises) or goign out in the backyard, she would have very normal pees and poos....

anyhoos, sorry for the highjack, but i hadda share. good luck to the OP with potty training your chi!

Best. Story. Ever.

 

[GSDgirl]

Best. Story. Ever.

That was a funny story!

I dog-sit for a couple with a lab named Monty. Usually when on off-leash walks, Monty gets a treat everytime he poops. (Not sure why, but he does.) Anyways, I've noticed when taking Monty on his 1-2 mile walk that he will try to poop as quickly as possible once we get to the open field. Then he'll come back for a treat. He'll run around, sniff, whatever, then like clockwork, he'll pretend to poop about every 3 minutes. He makes sure he is visible to me, squats, looks me right in the face, and I know nothing is coming out, but he holds his position for a few seconds then runs up for a treat. Its ridiculous. (But will never top Minnerbelle's yorkie. haha!)

 

[marycatherine]

That was a funny story!

I dog-sit for a couple with a lab named Monty. Usually when on off-leash walks, Monty gets a treat everytime he poops. (Not sure why, but he does.) Anyways, I've noticed when taking Monty on his 1-2 mile walk that he will try to poop as quickly as possible once we get to the open field. Then he'll come back for a treat. He'll run around, sniff, whatever, then like clockwork, he'll pretend to poop about every 3 minutes. He makes sure he is visible to me, squats, looks me right in the face, and I know nothing is coming out, but he holds his position for a few seconds then runs up for a treat. Its ridiculous. (But will never top Minnerbelle's yorkie. haha!)

Hahahaha. I dogsit a dog similar to this, however he doesn't get treats and he still does it! I think he knows that we cheer or praise him when he poops, so he looks at us like a little kid "Mom!! Look what I'm doing!!!".

We also had a dog at my shelter who we would have to take on huge walks before he would do anything-- super frustrating when you have tons of dogs to walk in the mornings. However one of the other techs learned a "trick" where we'd lead him just into the woods and make him turn around a few times (he would always circle just before pooping at the end of the long walks). Worked like a charm! I could have him out, make him spin around, and he'd be finished in under a minute! Of course I would run with him and get him exercise, too. But we were so relieved we didn't have to take a 20-minute-Henry-walk every morning anymore.