How about a good ol' fashioned "what are my chances" thread?

[xrthopeful]

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[MegaVoltagePhoton]

Disclaimer: I am only a MS4 who is currently applying for Rad Onc, but am currently sitting on double-digit (barely) interviews currently (of which the most recent Charting the Outcomes states I should match somewhere)


To all: I cannot understate the importance (at least IMO) of having all your LoRs (go for 4 if you can) 1) be from Attending Rad Oncs, preferably from academic institutions or residency programs, 2) Be from the biggest names possible, 3) Be as positive as possible. Sometimes you need to compromise between 2 and 3. I skipped a letter from a Chairman at my 'home' institution because I saw him maybe 3 times, and everytime he seemed to have forgotten that I was planning to apply to Rad Onc (as a MS4 doing a Rad Onc rotation in July). I went with the PD and an attending who point-blank offered to write me a letter (apparently a rare occurence).

I would respectfully disagree with the statement that all LORs need to be from rad onc. If you have extremely strong letters from not radiation oncologists (for example, the chair of medicine, or a dean, or a PI), you can/should use those too. I have seen them make a difference. Of rad onc letters are important too, though. If using a non-rad onc letter though you have to know it's good.

 

[MedicineMan07]

Thanks evilbooyaa for the advice! I have also gotten some great advice through PM. I have seen many groups on studentdoc in the last 7.5 years, and though I enjoy rad onc as a speciality the rad onc group on here seem to be real nice for how competitive studentdoc member can be at times.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I would respectfully disagree with the statement that all LORs need to be from rad onc. If you have extremely strong letters from not radiation oncologists (for example, the chair of medicine, or a dean, or a PI), you can/should use those too. I have seen them make a difference. Of rad onc letters are important too, though. If using a non-rad onc letter though you have to know it's good.

I will defer to your position on this. The PI on my relevant research projects were Rad-Oncs, but I understand that not every situation is identical to mine. I had a letter from a FM attending (not through ERAS) who offered to write me a letter, and I did not include it in any of my application materials.

 

[madchemist89]

M3
School: Unranked allopathic
Step 1: 260+
Pre-clinical grades: H
Clinical grades: H (so far)
Research: This is the area where I am concerned. Two abstracts (published) and one first author paper (under review) in biomechanics. No rad onc research.

My school doesn't really have a radiation oncology department, so I can't get any research from my home institution. How would you suggest I go about obtaining research before applying? Do I need to take a year off for research after 4th year/Would this even be feasible in my situation? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[PhotonBomb]

You're definitely going to match, especially if you do some solid aways.

If you take a year off you can cement a top 10 match.

 

[mongol1985]

.

 

[Neuronix]

Sorry for another query. I'm considering applying to rad onc and would appreciate your candid feedback.

Based on my experience, you will likely get interviews at top research institutions--though it's impossible to predict which ones or how many. Don't be surprised if some of the "top" research institutions by medical school or even within radiation oncology don't emphasize research opportunities for their own residents. Some programs that you think now are "top 10" based on some general reputation may not actually be top 10 for resident research. Some programs you may think of as mid-tier now may actually have a lot more opportunity for you.

Different programs care more or less about AOA, class rank, research relevance to rad onc, "fit" for that location and program, personality, etc. I recommend you get some radiation oncology related research. You will still need to apply to 40+ programs and not get fixated on any specific programs or even regions yet.

Numbers of aways and where to do them are always tough decisions. Your home program plus one good away would be fine. Two aways would be fine also. It's probably best to spend a month dedicated to rad onc research in an attempt to at least get a clinical abstract and hopefully publication. This is probably easier to do at your home program. That may be all you have time for before application season.

 

[JustAdocInBox]

I think a month of radiation oncology research at your home institution is more useful than an away rotation. My application this cycle is very similar to yours except I completed a clinical rad onc project during third year that was submitted for publication right before I applied. I was also able to get a Rad Onc recommendation letter from this PI that I hope was substantive since I spent time in the clinic and conducting research with this PI. I received interview invitations from most of the top programs and many other very strong programs that are supportive of research. Many of my interviewers who don't have a basic science background bring up that clinical project and I spend considerable time on the interview trail talking about it despite having a PhD in cancer biology. On the contrary, I did not do any away rotations and that hasn't been brought up once during my interviews. I get the sense that away rotations are actually not all that important if you have a solid application otherwise.

I wouldn't worry about AOA. Just try to Honor Medicine/Surgery, and your Rad Onc rotations and no one will question your clinical competence.

 

[Chemdude]

.

 

[PhotonBomb]

Would be worth taking a year off if you want to have a shot at a program the caliber of UMich. Going to be tough with no rad onc research.

 

[Abscopal]

I'm a MS3 currently; applying Fall 2015
Low-tier medical school (with a rad onc department, but no residency program)
MD/PhD (I completed my PhD in Cancer Biology; topic = oxidation stress)
Step 1: 245
3rd year grades: mix of Honors and Passes (we don't have HP)
Publications: 10 journal articles (2 of 'em first author); 8 abstracts at conferences (5 of 'em 1st author). I don't have any rad onc research per se.
Letter: no big-wig letter; will get one from home med school from a more-or-less unknown rad onc professor
Issues: My PhD took a really really long time (~7 years). Three issues with this (according to my chairman): (a) I took too long and it looks bad (b) I should have had more publications given that length (c) I took step 1 a very long time ago.

Questions:
(1a) What are my chances?!? Does the prolonged PhD raise a red flag?
(1b) I really want go into basic science within rad onc career-wise. My chairman said that top 10 programs are out of reach for me, which is TOTALLY fine. But, I'd like to match at a mid-tier program with solid research opportunities. Realistic?
(2) Is there any use to a letter from my home school from a more-or-less unknown rad oncologist? (I get the sense without a big-wig letter, my chances are pretty tough).
(3) How big of a deal is lack of rad onc research? (I'm hustling to try to get some Rad Onc research during third year, but realistically it'll be tough to get it published come application time Fall 2015)

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (this forum is helpful)

 

[PhotonBomb]

Md/phd with pubs AND a good step? You're going to be just fine. You're going to match very well. No one will care how long it took for your phd, they may not even notice. I don't think top 10 is out of reach for you at all, actually.

 

[Chemdude]

Would be worth taking a year off if you want to have a shot at a program the caliber of UMich. Going to be tough with no rad onc research.

How about my chances of matching overall, if I manage to get some rad onc research done over the next several months?

 

[PhotonBomb]

How about my chances of matching overall, if I manage to get some rad onc research done over the next several months?

Should be able to match, just pick your aways well. I would do two aways for sure.

 

[Neuronix]

(1a) What are my chances?!? Does the prolonged PhD raise a red flag?
(1b) I really want go into basic science within rad onc career-wise. My chairman said that top 10 programs are out of reach for me, which is TOTALLY fine. But, I'd like to match at a mid-tier program with solid research opportunities. Realistic?
(2) Is there any use to a letter from my home school from a more-or-less unknown rad oncologist? (I get the sense without a big-wig letter, my chances are pretty tough).
(3) How big of a deal is lack of rad onc research? (I'm hustling to try to get some Rad Onc research during third year, but realistically it'll be tough to get it published come application time Fall 2015)

1a. I doubt anyone will notice or care. Some may think you should have more first author publications. I'm not sure that's a big deal though, and if a first author publication is in a prestigious journal it definitely isn't an issue. Nobody cares about your old step 1 score--all anyone looks at is the number, and a 245 is still pretty good.
2. Top-10 programs are not necessarily best for launching a research career. Regardless, I disagree with your chair and think you may get interviews at "top 10" programs if you have no location preferences. Things depend somewhat on your class rank and LORs. You should still apply to 50+ programs regardless.
3. I would try to fix this. Either get some from your home institution or try to do a mixed research/clinical rotation (i.e. 2 months) somewhere else.

 

[MonkeiMD]

Hey everyone! I'm a third year and I've been interested in Rad Onc since year one. I love the field, but am really uncertain about my chances and could use some perspective.

Preclinical: P/NP. Did above average.
Step 1: Low 260's
Rotations: Honored 1/4 so far (surgery), still have IM and Psych remaining. Unlikely I will honor IM. I think I will honor psych which would put me at 2/6 rotations honored.
Research: I have been on 3 rad-onc projects with no research experience prior to medical school.
- 1st project - Paper submitted as 1st author (have yet to hear back and it has been several months unfortunately). No abstract or presentation however.
- 2nd project - Basic science research - have an abstract and 2 presentations (1x at ASTRO, 1x at my school). Unlikely to publish a paper on this.
- 3rd project - Chart review stuff - have an abstract and presentation at ASTRO. Will try and get a 1st author paper submitted in the next 4 months.

LOR: No idea how this is going to go... I'm not particularly tight with the people I've done research with and I have to admit to dragging my feet on the projects listed above.

I think interviews and my personal statement will be strong points for me. I came to medical school to be an oncologist and have a lot of history supporting that.

I guess my questions are:
1) Research: Assuming I end up with 1 first author, 2 abstracts, 3 presentations. Is this enough? Should I do 1 more project 4th year? Do I need to delay step 2 til after interviews so that I can beef this part of my resume up? It's really intimating seeing so many MD/PHDs and people with AOA!

2) LOR: As I mentioned above, I don't have a particularly strong relationship with the people I've done research with (although it's not bad either). However, one is a big name doctor. Should I get letters from these PI's even if I'm uncertain how they'll turn out? Otherwise, do I just get all of my letters from away rotations? Seems tough to find 4 different people during 4th year!

3) Geography: What would I need to do to end up in anywhere in California, Oregon, Texas, New York, Florida, Chicago, Atlanta or some other major city. Part of the issue is I want to couples match, and my partner really wants to end up in California and definitely doesn't want to live in a rural area. It's still a little unclear if we will couples match, but would I have to take a year off to make matching in these spots a reality?

I hate all the anxiety in this process so I would appreciate your thoughts! Thanks.

 

[Voodoo Chile]

Hi all, long time lurker. First time post. I'm wondering what my chances are at matching anywhere given my situation.

3rd year DO student
Step1: high 230's
Step 2: plan on taking this in June and (hopefully) surpassing Step 1 score by 10 points or so.

Preclinical: Right in the middle of the pack at my school. Nothing spectacular.

Clinical: Honors in every rotation thus far. Did a month with a PP RadOnc early on.

Research: six radiation biology/radonc basic science publications- two as a 1st author, four as a 3rd/4th author. Started these projects a year before starting MS1 and finished the last project a few months ago. I'm not currently doing any research. I'm definitely willing to do more research on an away rotation if given the opportunity.

LoR: So far, I can get solid letters from my research PI, PP radonc that I rotated with as an MSIII. Hoping to get a couple letters on SubIs.

Extracurriculars: no volunteering, couple international volunteer trips, several international trips for above mentioned research.

SubIs: planning on doing at least 3 at mid/lower tier places that to my knowledge, have taken DO's in the past for residency/rotations. I'm not geographically restricted for residency location. Places I'm thinking about doing aways at: Alleghny, Drexel, Jefferson, U Washington, VCU, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio state, CCF, Wayne State, Texas and and M, Baylor, Nebraska, KU, Minnesota, Temple.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be great. Thanks!

 

[radoncopotamus]

Seems you have a good grasp on what you need to do. You probably have a good chance of matching with your research. The only thing I'd mention is for your LoRs you might not want to use the letter from the private practice rad onc if you can help it. I did a similar PP rotation and was advised that a letter from that person really wouldn't hold any weight. Better off to get letters from people on your away rotations from known names within the field.

 

[MonkeiMD]

Hey everyone! I'm a third year and I've been interested in Rad Onc since year one. I love the field, but am really uncertain about my chances and could use some perspective.

Preclinical: P/NP. Did above average.
Step 1: Low 260's
Rotations: Honored 1/4 so far (surgery), still have IM and Psych remaining. Unlikely I will honor IM. I think I will honor psych which would put me at 2/6 rotations honored.
Research: I have been on 3 rad-onc projects with no research experience prior to medical school.
- 1st project - Paper submitted as 1st author (have yet to hear back and it has been several months unfortunately). No abstract or presentation however.
- 2nd project - Basic science research - have an abstract and 2 presentations (1x at ASTRO, 1x at my school). Unlikely to publish a paper on this.
- 3rd project - Chart review stuff - have an abstract and presentation at ASTRO. Will try and get a 1st author paper submitted in the next 4 months.

LOR: No idea how this is going to go... I'm not particularly tight with the people I've done research with and I have to admit to dragging my feet on the projects listed above.

I think interviews and my personal statement will be strong points for me. I came to medical school to be an oncologist and have a lot of history supporting that.

I guess my questions are:
1) Research: Assuming I end up with 1 first author, 2 abstracts, 3 presentations. Is this enough? Should I do 1 more project 4th year? Do I need to delay step 2 til after interviews so that I can beef this part of my resume up? It's really intimating seeing so many MD/PHDs and people with AOA!

2) LOR: As I mentioned above, I don't have a particularly strong relationship with the people I've done research with (although it's not bad either). However, one is a big name doctor. Should I get letters from these PI's even if I'm uncertain how they'll turn out? Otherwise, do I just get all of my letters from away rotations? Seems tough to find 4 different people during 4th year!

3) Geography: What would I need to do to end up in anywhere in California, Oregon, Texas, New York, Florida, Chicago, Atlanta or some other major city. Part of the issue is I want to couples match, and my partner really wants to end up in California and definitely doesn't want to live in a rural area. It's still a little unclear if we will couples match, but would I have to take a year off to make matching in these spots a reality?

I hate all the anxiety in this process so I would appreciate your thoughts! Thanks.

 

[couchkick]

Monkei, everyone ignored you because you are the stereotypical SDN lurker with a 260 who is worried and wants to primarily be in the West or east Coast. Go away and relax.

 

[MonkeiMD]

Monkei, everyone ignored you because you are the stereotypical SDN lurker with a 260 who is worried and wants to primarily be in the West or east Coast. Go away and relax.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off that way. I just felt like my application was relatively weak outside of my board score and wanted an idea of my competitiveness just like everyone else... Shoot I'd trade my board score for voodoo's research anytime lol. Anyways point taken but there's no need to be rude. Good day sir!

 

[radoncopotamus]

MonkeiMD, with a 260 Step 1 and rad onc research you're going to be fine. I'd recommend all the obvious things; finish all the papers you're working on asap so that they can be published by the time you need to submit your ERAS, rock your away rotations (90% of which is just showing up on time, prepared and being thorough), and get your letters from known attendings in the field. If you're set on California do an away there (if your home school isn't already in Cali). I'm not sure taking a year off would be of any benefit in your case unless you want to end up at a top ten place, in which case it's kind of a crapshoot anyway.

 

[JRG]

First of all, thanks to everyone for the great advice. This is very helpful for us applicants to be. That being said, here's my stuff and any advice is very appreciated:

MS3
School: Unranked Private in SE without a rad onc residency program (but with a very small rad onc department)
Grades: Clinicals: Mix of HP/H (Preclinicals are P/F)
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Probably will take it in September
Research: This is my (very) weak point. I have bench research from undergrad with nothing to show for it. I'm currently working with a med onc at my school who is semi-well known in the rad onc world. I'm beginning on a project right now that will likely end in at least an abstract and hopefully I can be productive and get a publication or two. I've considered a year off for research and could possibly do it, but I would prefer not to. I'm also working on a breast CA project in our rads dept and will likely get at least an abstract and be able to present it at RSNA in the fall.

Aways: Since I don't have a home rad onc residency (and none in the area) my plan was to do a home rotation at one of the hospitals around here plus either: 2x audition aways + 1x research away all geographically spread out at middle tier locations; or 3x auditions, again spread out. I would love to only be able to do 2 aways but I realize that probably unwise.

My dream would be to end up in the West or mid-west for residency but I'm really open to going anywhere. I know I won't be able to match at top tier programs and I'm okay with that and would be incredibly happy just to much!

Thanks!!

 

[RadOnculousRUS]

VERY STICKY SITUATION! NEED YOUR INPUT!

MS3
School: Top 10-12 ranked sch nationally with Rad Onc Dept
Step 1: Disaster! 218
Step 2: Not yet
Research: One in-house School poster presentation, 2nd author on Astro poster, 2nd Author Abstract to Red Journal
Aways: Planning on Home program, then 2 Aways

Question: Trying to decide between channeling my efforts towards a stellar step 2 or trying to get around 3-4 abstracts by September. Doing both will compromise approaches, especially my ability to focus during my Sub I rotations.

If it were you...what would you do... 1. Go for the 250+ Step 2 score to redeem a poor step one with mediocre research experiences OR 2. Apply with 218 step 1 with more research and doing step 2 later in the year (~Nov/Dec) and updating my scores to programs at that time

PS: My goal is to get into any program I can get. Low tier to Mid tier (if you can even rank programs as such)

 

[thecarbonionangle]

VERY STICKY SITUATION! NEED YOUR INPUT!

MS3
School: Top 10-12 ranked sch nationally with Rad Onc Dept
Step 1: Disaster! 218
Step 2: Not yet
Research: One in-house School poster presentation, 2nd author on Astro poster, 2nd Author Abstract to Red Journal
Aways: Planning on Home program, then 2 Aways

Question: Trying to decide between channeling my efforts towards a stellar step 2 or trying to get around 3-4 abstracts by September. Doing both will compromise approaches, especially my ability to focus during my Sub I rotations.

If it were you...what would you do... 1. Go for the 250+ Step 2 score to redeem a poor step one with mediocre research experiences OR 2. Apply with 218 step 1 with more research and doing step 2 later in the year (~Nov/Dec) and updating my scores to programs at that time

PS: My goal is to get into any program I can get. Low tier to Mid tier (if you can even rank programs as such)

your step 1 will for sure hurt you. Though I think it is lazy do so, there are places which use it as a screen so your application may not be read. You will be asked about it in some interviews. The average step1 is in the 240s. Apply very broadly (every single program), do three away rotations, get letters from well known people. Try to do as much research as possible and kill step 2 (questionable whether it helps or not). Have a back up plan. Rad onc is getting incredibly competitive. You may want to do a research year and put out a few red journal first authors. It is still possible to match, however. Research is far more valued than a step1 score.

 

[RadOnculousRUS]

Thanks for the feedback. It is very much appreciated!

 

[JRG]

First of all, thanks to everyone for the great advice. This is very helpful for us applicants to be. That being said, here's my stuff and any advice is very appreciated:

MS3
School: Unranked Private in SE without a rad onc residency program (but with a very small rad onc department)
Grades: Clinicals: Mix of HP/H (Preclinicals are P/F)
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Probably will take it in September
Research: This is my (very) weak point. I have bench research from undergrad with nothing to show for it. I'm currently working with a med onc at my school who is semi-well known in the rad onc world. I'm beginning on a project right now that will likely end in at least an abstract and hopefully I can be productive and get a publication or two. I've considered a year off for research and could possibly do it, but I would prefer not to. I'm also working on a breast CA project in our rads dept and will likely get at least an abstract and be able to present it at RSNA in the fall.

Aways: Since I don't have a home rad onc residency (and none in the area) my plan was to do a home rotation at one of the hospitals around here plus either: 2x audition aways + 1x research away all geographically spread out at middle tier locations; or 3x auditions, again spread out. I would love to only be able to do 2 aways but I realize that probably unwise.

My dream would be to end up in the West or mid-west for residency but I'm really open to going anywhere. I know I won't be able to match at top tier programs and I'm okay with that and would be incredibly happy just to much!

Thanks!!

Any thoughts about my app above? Would I be much better off taking year between MS3-MS4 for research?

Thanks again!

 

[tomba27]

Advice Requested - I'm a MS3 that recently (within last 3 weeks) decided on rad onc.

MS3
School: Top 25 Rad Onc program
Grades: Clinicals: All Honors thus far (IM, Peds, Psych) Subclinicals: GPA 2.76 (out of 3)
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Will take in August in between my two away rotations
Extra: Member of Rad Onc Specialty Interest Groups and will be taking over as it's leader this April, 2015
Research:
- 1st author GI Hepatic Encephalopathy abstract - poster presentation this Spring, GI conference this fall (When I was considering IM)
- I just got plugged in with the chair of my institution and am firing up 2 Rad Onc research projects as we speak. I will be lead PI on both and anticipate 1 hopefully being ready for submission before ERAS and the other will be a larger project that will likely go into my MS4 year
Aways: VSAS application has been approved - I'm going to do 2 away rotations on top of 4 weeks at my home institutation. Aiming for 1 high "tier" program and one mid "tier" program

Anyway, I realize some might suggest I take a year off to do research (which I'm not 100% opposed to) but I plan on couples matching with my girlfriend (she is IM) and she means the world to me so if there is a decent shot of matching this upcoming cycle then I'm going to grind as hard as possible to get it done.

 

[SJSM001]

your step 1 will for sure hurt you. Though I think it is lazy do so, there are places which use it as a screen so your application may not be read. You will be asked about it in some interviews. The average step1 is in the 240s. Apply very broadly (every single program), do three away rotations, get letters from well known people. Try to do as much research as possible and kill step 2 (questionable whether it helps or not). Have a back up plan. Rad onc is getting incredibly competitive. You may want to do a research year and put out a few red journal first authors. It is still possible to match, however. Research is far more valued than a step1 score.

"You may want to put out a few red journal first authors" - Lol. Wish it was as easy as it sounded!

RadonculousRUS - in all seriousness, if you really want rad onc with that Step 1 score it's not going to be impossible, but I don't think you're there yet. Coming from someone with a Step 1 score even lower than yours who matched (at a fantastic institution), it can be done but you need to work your rear end of to make sure there are NO other holes in our application - and on top of that you need to have a reason for them to consider you. There are more than enough qualified applicants to fill the spots. That means you need to have excellent research, excellent letters, excellent clinical grades and you need to nail your aways. On top of that, there will be automatic screens that will screen you out at many places before anyone lays eyes on your application, so you will need to apply broadly to overcome that. In your case, that probably means you do need to take a year off as carbionangle stated. It will give you time to nail step 2 and make sure you get research done - you don't need more abstracts, you need manuscripts and manuscripts take time. If you apply this year make sure you have a solid backup plan.

 

[laserbeams]

MS3
School: Unranked Private in SE without a rad onc residency program (but with a very small rad onc department)
Grades: Clinicals: Mix of HP/H (Preclinicals are P/F)
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Probably will take it in September
Research: This is my (very) weak point. I have bench research from undergrad with nothing to show for it. I'm currently working with a med onc at my school who is semi-well known in the rad onc world. I'm beginning on a project right now that will likely end in at least an abstract and hopefully I can be productive and get a publication or two. I've considered a year off for research and could possibly do it, but I would prefer not to. I'm also working on a breast CA project in our rads dept and will likely get at least an abstract and be able to present it at RSNA in the fall.

Aways: Since I don't have a home rad onc residency (and none in the area) my plan was to do a home rotation at one of the hospitals around here plus either: 2x audition aways + 1x research away all geographically spread out at middle tier locations; or 3x auditions, again spread out. I would love to only be able to do 2 aways but I realize that probably unwise.

If you pick up another research project or two, and do well on your away rotations, you should be good. In my (admittedly poorly informed) opinion, I would suggest pouring all your time into research instead of Step 2. Your Step 1 shouldn't get you screened out of any programs, and then PDs will look at research and LORs. You'll have to hustle a bit but you can probably get an abstract or two out of your aways if your plan ahead.

Picking aways becomes critical if you feel like your app is deficient in any particular dimensions (i.e. research, LORs). Find a place that you'd potentially like to match that has a history of taking rotating students and has productive faculty, and you'll have a good chance of setting yourself up for a successful match.

Good luck!

 

[RadOnculousRUS]

.

 

[RadOnculousRUS]

RadonculousRUS - in all seriousness, if you really want rad onc with that Step 1 score it's not going to be impossible, but I don't think you're there yet. Coming from someone with a Step 1 score even lower than yours who matched (at a fantastic institution), it can be done but you need to work your rear end of to make sure there are NO other holes in our application - and on top of that you need to have a reason for them to consider you. There are more than enough qualified applicants to fill the spots. That means you need to have excellent research, excellent letters, excellent clinical grades and you need to nail your aways. On top of that, there will be automatic screens that will screen you out at many places before anyone lays eyes on your application, so you will need to apply broadly to overcome that. In your case, that probably means you do need to take a year off as carbionangle stated. It will give you time to nail step 2 and make sure you get research done - you don't need more abstracts, you need manuscripts and manuscripts take time. If you apply this year make sure you have a solid backup plan.

So, I have decided to take a year off to become a stronger applicant per the feedback I got from here.

Question 1:
Are there any year long paid fellowships for rad onc that I can apply to?

Question 2:
Which ones of those will allow me to very productive with respect to research papers?

 

[kalki328]

So, I have decided to take a year off to become a stronger applicant per the feedback I got from here.

Question 1:
Are there any year long paid fellowships for rad onc that I can apply to?

Question 2:
Which ones of those will allow me to very productive with respect to research papers?

I am currently doing a year of research before my MS4 year. When I was in your spot I realized there aren't many available programs that will pay you for an entire research year (The NIH has a year long research scholars program where you can say you'd preferably like to work with a radiation oncologist; but it won't be guaranteed. I don't know if the deadline passed already). Your school may also have a research scholarship you can apply for so definitely check with them.

I ended up doing a year of unpaid (ouch) translational glioma research (not directly rad onc related) but made time to get on board with some part time radiation oncology projects.

I found that most radiation oncologists in academic centers are very receptive to taking on students for projects. I basically looked up radiation oncologists at nearby institutions (my own has a small rad onc department but we have absolutely no clinical research going on), looked up how frequently they published in pubmed and emailed them asking if they had any projects I could assist with. If you contact a few your bound to find some who are more than willing to take you on.

Hopefully you'll find a year long radiation oncology project. But if not there are definitely ways to still be productive at least on a part-time basis.

 

[scarboost]

Pretty tough to get paid to do clinical research when plenty do it for free. I worked in a lab doing a basic science fellowship and I did clinical research on the side. You should be able to find a lab gig. Lab work is tedious and hours can be long but you gotta do it. Just be very certain that it is a good lab with a good mentor. Nothing worst than being in a lab and knowing your project is going nowhere........it SUCKS. The other option is to move back home and find something local and do clinical research (cheap). The year off is good i had a a good time with my girls on my time off

 

[gatelys]

I am curious how people achieve 12+ publications by the time of ERAS submission.

 

[medgator]

I am curious how people achieve 12+ publications by the time of ERAS submission.

Probably not hard when a big chunk of applicants are MD/PhD, and probably have research in other fields before they find an interest in rad onc.

 

[PhotonBomb]

I am curious how people achieve 12+ publications by the time of ERAS submission.

If you are talking about the number on the Charting Outcomes - that number is actually number of posters, presentations, abstracts, publications.

It makes more sense to get to those numbers when you look at it like that. The same project can give you a poster and a paper for example.


Very very very few applicants have their names on 12 published papers at the time of application. Even PhDs (especially them actually, as more of their research is likely on long term basic science stuff rather than the type of clinical abstracts that you can pump out if you have enough time)

 

[S 854]

MS3
School: Top 50 (between 30-50)
Grades: Clinicals: Honors Psych, High Pass/Pass: Peds/Obgyn, completed home rotation, probably not AOA
Step 1: 252
Step 2: not sure when to take this
Extra: PhD- cancer biology
Research:
- 15 peer reviewed-basic science (2 co-first), 12 abstracts-basic science (3 first author)
-1 ASTRO oral presentation/abstract (1st author)
Aways: 1 scheduled at "top tier", not sure about 2nd

Unclear about need to take Step 2 "early" for app package, as well as need for second externship

 

[PhotonBomb]

NO reason to take Step 2 - at all. I would definitely wait until after eras is sent to take it. No one will ever ask you about it.


You're an MD/PHD with tons of research as well as an Oral at ASTRO and a 252 step to top it off? You're a shoe-in for a top 10-15 type place. Well done.

Someone like you doesn't need to do extra aways - you already look good on paper and an away can probably only hurt you, you're going to get interviews from lots of good placed.

 

[Sfoglia301]

MS3
School: Top 50 (between 30-50)
Grades: Clinicals: Honors Psych, High Pass/Pass: Peds/Obgyn, completed home rotation, probably not AOA
Step 1: 252
Step 2: not sure when to take this
Extra: PhD- cancer biology
Research:
- 15 peer reviewed-basic science (2 co-first), 12 abstracts-basic science (3 first author)
-1 ASTRO oral presentation/abstract (1st author)
Aways: 1 scheduled at "top tier", not sure about 2nd

Unclear about need to take Step 2 "early" for app package, as well as need for second externship

I'm in the same boat as you /u/S 854. MD/PhD, top 25 MD school, near identical board scores, lots of pubs, lots of leadership on campus if that counts for anything, definitely not AOA though. Reassuring to hear that good (though not stellar) clinical grades won't be an outright disqualifier from top programs. Would others support that statement?

I'm at a home institution with a "mid-tier" RadOnc program. I know it has been beaten to death in other threads, but would those with more experience advocate doing away rotations at name brand centers in addition to one at a relatively less competitive program? Willing to move anywhere for the sake of my career but there is research in line with my interests in the MidAtlantic/NorthEast and Chicago, which I know are crowded markets (which seemingly more and more markets are becoming nowadays...). Also, any words of wisdom on who to approach for LOR on aways? Chairs/mentors/"big names"? Thank you to all SDN/RadOnc regulars who reply to all these messages!

 

[Neuronix]

Reassuring to hear that good (though not stellar) clinical grades won't be an outright disqualifier from top programs.

Nobody on here has ever said that is the case.

Also, any words of wisdom on who to approach for LOR on aways?

Whoever you worked with the most and who you think can write you the best letter. Don't approach the chair for a letter if you didn't or barely worked with them. The name might be great, but a generic letter isn't.

I'm at a home institution with a "mid-tier" RadOnc program. I know it has been beaten to death in other threads, but would those with more experience advocate doing away rotations at name brand centers in addition to one at a relatively less competitive program?

There is no consensus on this point. If you're a top tier applicant, you might as well rotate at top tier places.

NO reason to take Step 2 - at all. I would definitely wait until after eras is sent to take it. No one will ever ask you about it.

Agreed.

You're an MD/PHD with tons of research as well as an Oral at ASTRO and a 252 step to top it off? You're a shoe-in for a top 10-15 type place. Well done.

I'm a firm believer that a "top" program is not necessarily the best for development of a physician-scientist as opposed to a program that may not be as big name but actually supports physician-scientists. Whatever SDN ranking you believe is not necessarily indicative of the program's support for research among its residents. Just something to consider for the multiple MD/PhDs posting and reading here.

Someone like you doesn't need to do extra aways

Agreed. I don't know what topic your ASTRO oral is on, but it may be best to do some additional clinical radiation research since you have the basic research covered.

 

[Sfoglia301]

Nobody on here has ever said that is the case.



Whoever you worked with the most and who you think can write you the best letter. Don't approach the chair for a letter if you didn't or barely worked with them. The name might be great, but a generic letter isn't.



There is no consensus on this point. If you're a top tier applicant, you might as well rotate at top tier places.



Agreed.




I'm a firm believer that a "top" program is not necessarily the best for development of a physician-scientist as opposed to a program that may not be as big name but actually supports physician-scientists. Whatever SDN ranking you believe is not necessarily indicative of the program's support for research among its residents. Just something to consider for the multiple MD/PhDs posting and reading here.



Agreed. I don't know what topic your ASTRO oral is on, but it may be best to do some additional clinical radiation research since you have the basic research covered.

Thanks for the insight Neuronix. Looking forward to the application process and I know however it turns out I'll be happy in the end as long as I give it my all and find a supportive program. Can't wait to dive in.

 

[RadOnculousRUS]

I am currently doing a year of research before my MS4 year. When I was in your spot I realized there aren't many available programs that will pay you for an entire research year (The NIH has a year long research scholars program where you can say you'd preferably like to work with a radiation oncologist; but it won't be guaranteed. I don't know if the deadline passed already). Your school may also have a research scholarship you can apply for so definitely check with them.

I ended up doing a year of unpaid (ouch) translational glioma research (not directly rad onc related) but made time to get on board with some part time radiation oncology projects.

I found that most radiation oncologists in academic centers are very receptive to taking on students for projects. I basically looked up radiation oncologists at nearby institutions (my own has a small rad onc department but we have absolutely no clinical research going on), looked up how frequently they published in pubmed and emailed them asking if they had any projects I could assist with. If you contact a few your bound to find some who are more than willing to take you on.

Hopefully you'll find a year long radiation oncology project. But if not there are definitely ways to still be productive at least on a part-time basis.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[RadOnculousRUS]

Pretty tough to get paid to do clinical research when plenty do it for free. I worked in a lab doing a basic science fellowship and I did clinical research on the side. You should be able to find a lab gig. Lab work is tedious and hours can be long but you gotta do it. Just be very certain that it is a good lab with a good mentor. Nothing worst than being in a lab and knowing your project is going nowhere........it SUCKS. The other option is to move back home and find something local and do clinical research (cheap). The year off is good i had a a good time with my girls on my time off

Very much appreciate your thoughts!

 

[S 854]

Nobody on here has ever said that is the case.



Whoever you worked with the most and who you think can write you the best letter. Don't approach the chair for a letter if you didn't or barely worked with them. The name might be great, but a generic letter isn't.



There is no consensus on this point. If you're a top tier applicant, you might as well rotate at top tier places.



Agreed.




I'm a firm believer that a "top" program is not necessarily the best for development of a physician-scientist as opposed to a program that may not be as big name but actually supports physician-scientists. Whatever SDN ranking you believe is not necessarily indicative of the program's support for research among its residents. Just something to consider for the multiple MD/PhDs posting and reading here.



Agreed. I don't know what topic your ASTRO oral is on, but it may be best to do some additional clinical radiation research since you have the basic research covered.

Thanks for the much appreciated feedback. Should have good letters lined up. I'm definitely not scanning the lists on here for "top tier" and am looking for programs that provide the best support of my research along with great clinical experiences. I am glad you pointed out the potential discrepancy between perceived prestige and career building since I share the philosophy based on my limited experience seeing what junior faculty go through.

I'm concerned that coming from a lower med program will be a detriment to my application. Recently read my clinical letters accumulated so far and I'm frankly stunned at how positive they are, but I have been told that the dean's letter is probably not that important. Trying to work on a few case reports that almost literally fell into my lap but they are not related to rad onc in any way.

Recently got patent as well and it's applicable to radiation oncology, however not sure if anyone really cares since it's awarded to home institution first.

Thanks again for your feedback, looking forward to interview season.

 

[itom37]

Recently got patent as well and it's applicable to radiation oncology, however not sure if anyone really cares since it's awarded to home institution first.

Put the patent on your CV. I have a really irrelevant patent from undergrad and got asked about it many times on the trail. Definite +.

I too am from a low tier program (public med school with little reputation, small rad onc department with little reputation). I admit I occasionally felt disadvantaged on the trail b/c of this, but ultimately I think I made up for it with great letters from my aways and research.

 

[itom37]

words of wisdom on who to approach for LOR on aways? Chairs/mentors/"big names"?

Get a letter from the biggest name you worked with most extensively. Try to ID these people early and get as much diverse exposure to them as you can. Residents can be allies in terms of knowing whom to ask. I don't think Chair matters unless you work with them enough to ask. Getting letters is so so so awkward... but these people are used to being asked and more often than not are happy to oblige. When you ask for a letter from anyone, always send along your CV (or offer to do so after request granted). Another thing you can do is write a few paragraphs outlining what you did with that person (patients you saw, presentations you gave) and your own career goals. This will give them a place to start. Send that along and say something like "I know you get lots of LOR requests, here are a few points about myself and our experience together blah blah blah". They will appreciate this. But send it after the request is granted to avoid being presumptuous.

My school always tells us to ask if they can write a "strong letter" for you. Awful as it may sound, this gives someone who might write you a mediocre letter an out ('oh i'm not sure we worked together enough...') etc. You'd much rather hear "no" from this person than "yes".

 

[scarboost]

Completely agree that getting letters was one of the most awkward experiences ever. You will send an email or ask in person to meet to "discuss your application". I generally attached my CV and asked for advice. I was incredibly nervous and hesitated multiple times due to my fox-like cautious personality, especially when I met when the big wig who wrote a letter. Some people will say yes without a problem and some played hard to get asking some tougher questions (interview style, which made me sweat) but ultimately graciously accepted and wrote good letters which were brought up in interviews. I always made sure to have a meeting in person to get a read of the individual. Obviously don't ask for a letter from someone who you worked with for one day, work with them a lot in your away and make sure they get to know you and it will be fine. My advice for aways is to completely avoid "top places" and rotate in midtier to low tier places. There are plenty of well known people in these places plus you will have a more realistic shot at an interview.

 

[doctorspeed]

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