How accurate is this!?

[PremedSingh]

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how accurate is this pharmacist's description of pay?

 

[TheBlaah]

...20 minute video..mind stating a time stamp or something when they talk about pay?

 

[PremedSingh]

To sum it up... they basically said, an average pharmacist (in the state of california?) makes up to 10-11k per month and furthermore taxes deduct about 40% of their income straight out, and furthermore they stated that a pharmacist also ends up paying 1-2 grand per month to pay off their student loans. Doing the necessary calculations, it would mean that the average pharmacist only takes home about 4k of their acclaimed income, now out of this income you have to end up spending money on compulsory expenditures and only then can you erally save up to 1-2k for your savings.
HOW ACCURATE DO YOU THINK THIS IS?

 

[BidingMyTime]

To sum it up... they basically said, an average pharmacist (in the state of california?) makes up to 10-11k per month and furthermore taxes deduct about 40% of their income straight out, and furthermore they stated that a pharmacist also ends up paying 1-2 grand per month to pay off their student loans. Doing the necessary calculations, it would mean that the average pharmacist only takes home about 4k of their acclaimed income, now out of this income you have to end up spending money on compulsory expenditures and only then can you erally save up to 1-2k for your savings.
HOW ACCURATE DO YOU THINK THIS IS?

40% tax rate assumes one doesn't have deductions.....buy a house, have children, put more money in your 401-k/403-b....there are lots of ways for one to lower their tax rate.

And saving 1 - 2 K, is that a month or a year? Either way, it is far, far, far more than what the average American saves.

So yeah, I think their calculations are correct, in a general sort of way. Pharmacists are still making excellent pay.

 

[PremedSingh]

its for a month. How do you think saving less than 20k per year is a respectable figure?? Especially for such an esteemed profession!?

 

[BMBiology]

^^ work first and then get back to us.

40% tax is pretty accurate in California. As a young working professional, you are not going to have the money to take advantages of all of these tax deductions. If you have a mortgage in California, you are not going to have the money to max out your 401 k.

For the sake of simplicity, lets say you make 120 k a year, put 5 k toward your 401 k, spend 1.5 k on health insurance and you are taxed at 33% = 76 k after taxes or about 6300 k a month.

$6300 - $1500 (low end apt in southern California) - $1500 (student loans, principle of 150 k, 10 year plan) - $500 (utilities, internet, cell) - $500 (gas, car maintenance) = $2300 (left over)

$2300 is for everything else (clothes, going out, food, medical cost, etc). So yeah, saving 20 k a year is pretty good based on a pharmacist salary in California.

If you want to buy a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom, 1500 sq feet house in a good school district in Socal, you are looking at least 700 k. It is often more than that. If you need to put down 20%, that is 140 k. If you are saving 20 k a year, it will take you at least 7 years, assuming price stays the same for 7 years (not going to happen). You pretty much need to marry someone who also makes a good income in order to buy a house here.

 

[PremedSingh]

I was expecting more out of pharmacy..... when compared to other professionals out there it seems like a relatively lucrative career... but after doing some math and coming to know that that it will take decades just to afford a nice house!? Its not as awesome as it looks especially after many years of schooling put in. I'll rather just go to med school and get a 300k/year job and make a considerably larger pay check!

 

[RxStudentatUB]

I was expecting more out of pharmacy..... Comparing to other professionals out there it seems like a relatively lucrative career... but common... saying that it will take decades just to afford a nice house!? Its not as awesome as it looks. I'll rather just go to med school and get a 300k/year job and make significantly a lot more!

Hence the title: Reality vs. Expectations!

 

[PremedSingh]

But then again, you as a pharmacist would probably end up starting a family with a partner who makes the same amount of money or even more, accumulating to a rather acceptable and fairly lucrative life.

 

[BMBiology]

I was expecting more out of pharmacy..... Comparing to other professionals out there it seems like a relatively lucrative career... but common... saying that it will take decades just to afford a nice house!? Its not as awesome as it looks. I'll rather just go to med school and get a 300k/year job and make significantly a lot more!

It depends on where you want to live. I still think pharmacy school is a decent option if you have a plan and know what you are getting yourself into.

But it is also about timing. I got into pharmacy school when it was actually difficult to get into. I graduated when there was still a shortage of pharmacist but I knew the good time was going to end. I knew the saturation was coming and I wasn't going to be blindsided. I got rid of my student loans within the first few years (didnt borrow much anyways) and invested heavily when things were actually cheap (the S&P 500 is now 3x 2009 low). I am pulling in a lot of money this year, mainly thru my investment. I am not a materialistic guy but yeah, you can do a lot with that kind of money. More importantly, you don't to go to school for a trillion year to make that kind of money. The economy has changed. It is a new game out there. There are opportunies everywhere.

Will my earning last? Probably not. All good things come to an end.

 

[steveysmith54]

I think they both got lucky with their jobs, especially for going out of state. Right now there are some jobs. In Los Angeles most chains aren't giving their employees 40 hours. It's between 24 to 32 is what most of my friends get. So, I think banking on 120k a year is not realistic if you are a new grad. I said this before, God knows what will hAppen when Kgi, west coast, California, and chapman graduate their first class. 300 to 400 new rph per year will really hurt the job market, obviously.

I think the most scariest thing is if you look in of a cvs Walgreens, rite aid, I doubt you'll see too many rph over 40 years old. This is why I tried my hardest to do hospital

 

[PremedSingh]

The future of pharmacy, in my eyes at least seems to be very bleak. I have spent the last few weeks carefully analyzing the job market of pharmacy and debating whether if I should pursue pharmacy over medicine or vice versa. I feel like I will be getting more out of a MD/DO education. Do you think pharmacy is an efficient backup for medical school? I have a feeling that the prereqs are quite similar, so would it be rather troublesome if I finish my bachelors and choose the pharmacy route due to me being rejected from the med schools I apply to?

 

[BMBiology]

I think they both got lucky with their jobs, especially for going out of state. Right now there are some jobs. In Los Angeles most chains aren't giving their employees 40 hours. It's between 24 to 32 is what most of my friends get. So, I think banking on 120k a year is not realistic if you are a new grad. I said this before, God knows what will hAppen when Kgi, west coast, California, and chapman graduate their first class. 300 to 400 new rph per year will really hurt the job market, obviously.

I think the most scariest thing is if you look in of a cvs Walgreens, rite aid, I doubt you'll see too many rph over 40 years old. This is why I tried my hardest to do hospital

Yes, things will get worse before they get better. But all of these new schools in California are just allowing California students to stay in California rather than forcing them to go to a school in the east coast.

Everybody knows there is a saturation as indicated by the drop in applicants for the last 6-7 years. What is going to happen is pharmacy schools are just going to compete with each other as the pool of students gets smaller and smaller, which is a good thing. At this point, more school the better. Some schools need to close or dramatically cut their class size before things are normal again.

 

[PremedSingh]

Are you guys going to eventually pull out of this career if the profession reaches lower compensation rates and stability in the future?

 

[steveysmith54]

Yes, things will get worse before they get better. But all of these new schools in California are just allowing California students to stay in California rather than forcing them to go to a school in the east coast.

Everybody knows there is a saturation as indicated by the drop in applicants for the last 6-7 years. What is going to happen is pharmacy schools are just going to compete with each other as the pool of students gets smaller and smaller, which is a good thing. At this point, more school the better. Some schools need to close or dramatically cut their class size before things are normal again.

I think until students are still getting federal loans and with emergence of income based repayment plans, we will not see schools closing or decreasing class sizes any time soon.

 

[BMBiology]

Are you guys going to eventually pull out of this career if the profession reaches lower compensation rates and stability in the future?

I am going to milk it until the end. I don't know when that will be but of course I don't want to be pushed out. I am still young so I need to do something.

 

[PremedSingh]

Do you think the nursing job market is going towards a dead end as well?

I am going to milk it until the end. I don't know when that will be but of course I don't want to be pushed out. I am still young so I need to do something.

 

[BMBiology]

I think until students are still getting federal loans and with emergence of income based repayment plans, we will not see schools closing or decreasing class sizes any time soon.

Easy access to student loan can't last forever or it will go bankrupt. This government doesn't do jack until the very end but it will act. That is when these pharmacy schools will feel it.

 

[BMBiology]

Do you think the nursing job market is going towards a dead end as well?

I think there is a lot of opportunities in nursing especially since many of them now can work independently of a physician.

Let's be frank here. All of us are over trained for the work that we do and that includes physicians and pharmacists. We spend so much of our time in school and take on too much debt. Nurse practitioners do not have this burden. That is why they have the advantage and they will thrive in this cost cutting environment.

 

[Momus]

I was expecting more out of pharmacy..... when compared to other professionals out there it seems like a relatively lucrative career... but after doing some math and coming to know that that it will take decades just to afford a nice house!? Its not as awesome as it looks especially after many years of schooling put in. I'll rather just go to med school and get a 300k/year job and make a considerably larger pay check!

Who said pharmacy is awesome? It will give you a comfortable middle class income, you will never be rich... and that pretty much sums it up.

 

[PharMed2016]

To the OP; I think pharmacy is still a viable profession especially if you choose to apply yourself during school and after graduation (got to be better than your competition). As for housing, it depends on your market but I can say that many of my friends whom graduated with me in 2012 have bought very nice houses (200-300k, granted not in California). As for the schooling, you can complete a PharmD much faster than you can complete an MD if you set your mind to it given that it technically does not require a bachelors degree (2+3 or 2+4). Also, please factor in residency training which can range anywhere from 3 to 7 years minus fellowship which can be 1 to 3 years. The sum of 300k is definitely doable but the majority of physicians probably make closer to 200k all things considered. If you want a more "lucrative specialty," be prepared to work your ass off in medical school and in residency. Also, the reimbursement landscape is set to change in the next couple of years which will impact traditionally more procedural specialties that make the those salaries of 300k+.

In summary, don't choose something because of money but rather because you like the field itself.

 

[PharFromNormal]

This is why we need provider status.

Trollface.jpg

 

[AJF505]

40% tax rate is way too high almost anywhere. Even with just standard deduction federal tax on 120k is 23387. Then Social security and medicare is another ~9000. State taxes vary but are going to run from ~0- like 10k. All in all this is much more like 25%. I think they are confusing their marginal tax rate with their average tax rate.

 

[BMBiology]

40% tax rate is way too high almost anywhere. Even with just standard deduction federal tax on 120k is 23387. Then Social security and medicare is another ~9000. State taxes vary but are going to run from ~0- like 10k. All in all this is much more like 25%. I think they are confusing their marginal tax rate with their average tax rate.

You can calculate it online. In addition to federal income tax, social security, medicare, you also have to pay california state income tax and california disability insurance tax.

Just to simplify it, I am not including tax deductions like standard deduction, 401 k contribution, etc.

Salary 120 k
federal allowance: 0
state allowance: 2

http://primepay.com/resources/calculators/salary-paycheck-calculator

Bi-weekly net pay is $2978 or $77,428 a year which is 35% tax. If you include the deductions, you should pay around 30% tax depending on your deductions (this includes social security tax, medicare tax, california disability insurance tax).

 

[steveysmith54]

40% tax rate is way too high almost anywhere. Even with just standard deduction federal tax on 120k is 23387. Then Social security and medicare is another ~9000. State taxes vary but are going to run from ~0- like 10k. All in all this is much more like 25%. I think they are confusing their marginal tax rate with their average tax rate.

Haha. Keep dreaming. It's between 35 to 40 percent

 

[PharmtoCS]

I was expecting more out of pharmacy..... when compared to other professionals out there it seems like a relatively lucrative career... but after doing some math and coming to know that that it will take decades just to afford a nice house!? Its not as awesome as it looks especially after many years of schooling put in. I'll rather just go to med school and get a 300k/year job and make a considerably larger pay check!

Do you think the nursing job market is going towards a dead end as well?

If you go to school in CA, you will likely accrue well over $200k in student loans as a pharmacist, and you'll accumulate even more if you go to med school. In fact, I would encourage you to avoid the health professions altogether (except for PA) since the entire field will likely be squeezed by public pressure to cut costs in the industry. Physician reimbursement rates have been dropping, meaning that you'll most likely be paid less by the time you finish residency, whereas tuition continues to go up. If pay is your main concern, there are other fields outside of healthcare that pay well and do not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and 4-8 years of lost opportunity cost in earnings.

 

[pezdispenser]

Are you guys going to eventually pull out of this career if the profession reaches lower compensation rates and stability in the future?

I think that pharmacy is on the downward part of a cycle, so I tell my cousins, friends, techs, etc not to do pharmacy.

As for myself, since I'm already a pharmacist I'm still going to milk it until the bitter end. This is my plan:

1. Pay off all student loans and mortgage. (Done)
2. Budget and control expenses. Even though I make a lot and have some expensive stuff like a house and car, I take care not to spend recklessly or on credit.
3. Stay competitive at my main job. Fortunately my performance metrics are as clear as it gets--speed and errors.
4. Branch out into other pharmacy fields like working per diem in hospital, etc.
5. Invest for passive income. At this point I just do mutual funds. I've looked into rental properties but don't feel like the return on investment is worth it.

 

[BMBiology]

Bi-weekly net pay is $2978 or $77,428 a year which is 35% tax. If you include the deductions, you should pay around 30% tax depending on your deductions (this includes social security tax, medicare tax, california disability insurance tax).

If you put 5 k in your 401 k and use 1.5 k to buy health insurance then yeah you are bringing home just 60%. These are tax deductions but again you need to spend money in order to get the deduction.

 

[BidingMyTime]

its for a month. How do you think saving less than 20k per year is a respectable figure?? Especially for such an esteemed profession!?

Because almost nobody, professionals included save anything. We live in a spending society, the more people's income goes up, the more they spend. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if even 1% of pharmacists saved 20K a year. 4% of salary is the national average....an average of $400/yr....and this is including retirement accounts, not just straight out savings. So anyone who actually saves 20K a year is pretty awesome and pretty rare. And professionals aren't immune to this? Do you think doctors have a high saving rate? They may be making more than pharmacists, but their average savings is just as dismal as pharmacists and any other american. Pharmacists *could* save more than 20K a year, they don't, because like everyone else, they like to spend money....there are plenty of stories of people making low wages who save up a lot more than professionals making 6 figures (these people are outliars, but they show it can be done, it just isn't.)

I was expecting more out of pharmacy..... when compared to other professionals out there it seems like a relatively lucrative career... but after doing some math and coming to know that that it will take decades just to afford a nice house!? Its not as awesome as it looks especially after many years of schooling put in. I'll rather just go to med school and get a 300k/year job and make a considerably larger pay check!

Well, as others have pointed out, $300K isn't the income for most physicians (300K is the "average" which means for every 600K doctor there are 2-200K doctors, plus there is the opportunity cost of lost years of work and college debt. Still, physicians *should* be able to save up a lot more than the average American.....but they don't. If you are worried about savings, know that what you save is a reflection of you, not of your salary.

And I guarentee there are plenty of doctors making $300K who don't think that $300K goes near as far as they thought it would.

 

[owlegrad]

And I guarentee there are plenty of doctors making $300K who don't think that $300K goes near as far as they thought it would.

This!

 

[PharMed2016]

Meanwhile the average household income for the rest of America is ... $51k.

 

[PremedSingh]

Damn it, I just ran my numbers and I'm only savings 17% of my income! Lol

and whats your income?

 

[jokersmiles]

But then again, you as a pharmacist would probably end up starting a family with a partner who makes the same amount of money or even more, accumulating to a rather acceptable and fairly lucrative life.

not if your partner has significant student loan debt as well.

 

[gwarm01]

Damn it, I just ran my numbers and I'm only savings 17% of my income! Lol

I'm doing 10% into my retirement account, but aside from that? Whew... ehhh... not so good. It seems like something will always happen to drain your account. I moved, had to break my lease, then my water heater broke, dishwasher broke, then my wife decided we needed a pergola. Always something!

I just accepted a side job working one weekend a month at a pretty decent rate for the area. That cash is going straight into the Tesla fund.

and whats your income?

You're on the pharmacy board, so just assume 100-120k. The only full-time pharmacists outside of that range are going to be residents or our glorious overlords in California.

 

[MatCauthon]

I ran the math the other day. Each of my bi-weekly paychecks comes out to about $2700. That is 52% of my gross income. I save 12% in retirement, pay medical benefits, union dues, disability insurance, and life insurance and the rest goes to taxes (state income tax being almost 10%). Out of the 2700 bi-weekly pay I have to save about $800 for student loans. So effectively I have 30% of my after-tax income going to student loans. This leaves with about $3800 per month to save, pay the rent, and pay the rest of the bills. I also get 2 extra paychecks per year since there are 26 pay-cycles in a year, not 24. I try to save those extra paychecks plus my tax return (if I have one) and pay off odd bills.

To make extra money I keep a side job-- it definitely helps when one is the sole bread-winner. Pharmacists aren't rich but we can live comfortably even while paying our student loans. With my side job I definitely blow more money than I should but I also try to save aggressively.

 

[BMBiology]

After you have paid off your student loans, your life and lifestyle just went from zero to 100.

I have paid off my loans and made some good investments. Life is a lot better now that my finance is in good order.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Sparda29]

Who said pharmacy is awesome? It will give you a comfortable middle class income, you will never be rich... and that pretty much sums it up.

Unless you're running a successful independent.

 

[Caffeine QAM]

But then again, you as a pharmacist would probably end up starting a family with a partner who makes the same amount of money or even more, accumulating to a rather acceptable and fairly lucrative life.

Not necessarily. You meet people from all walks of life... if you're lucky, you'll marry someone not a pharmacist, so they can help you pay off your loans 🤣

Because almost nobody, professionals included save anything. We live in a spending society, the more people's income goes up, the more they spend. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if even 1% of pharmacists saved 20K a year. 4% of salary is the national average....an average of $400/yr....

I'm assuming you meant $4,000 a year. Let's say your take-home after tax is $100k, which is quite generous, and you save 4% of that, which is $4,000 a year. If a plan to buy a $500k house and make a 20% downpayment, it'll take you 25 years to make the downpayment at that rate...

 

[Momus]

Unless you're running a successful independent.

You don't need to run a successful independent. Just fill Oxy 30 mg #90 charge cash for $500/script X 5-10 rxs every day. That's all you need to do. That's what my next door competitor do. Do not accept discount cards.

 

[steveysmith54]

You don't need to run a successful independent. Just fill Oxy 30 mg #90 charge cash for $500/script X 5-10 rxs every day. That's all you need to do. That's what my next door competitor do. Do not accept discount cards.

people who pay 500 bucks cash for oxy's are trouble. If you keep doing this, you will get shut down by BOP and lose your license. There is a reason why pharmacies like this don't exist for too long.

 

[Caffeine QAM]

You don't need to run a successful independent. Just fill Oxy 30 mg #90 charge cash for $500/script X 5-10 rxs every day. That's all you need to do. That's what my next door competitor do. Do not accept discount cards.

If you know they're doing that, you should submit a tip to the DEA.

 

[steveysmith54]

If you know they're doing that, you should submit a tip to the DEA.

whoever has 500 bucks and is willing to spend on oxy is def up to no good... To put things into perspective this medication is covered under all/majority of insurance plans and even without insurance goodrx is is the 40 to 80 dollar range... If no other pharmacy wants to fill it, there is proly a good reason for it.

 

[Momus]

10 rx/mo pays for building rent and more. Controlled the number of addicts. That's how indy survives... Shady customers, says who? They are our "regulars"!

 

[Momus]

Seriously thinking opening an indy just because... It's so damn easy to stay under the radar... lol

 

[Azianmunk]

The future of pharmacy, in my eyes at least seems to be very bleak. I have spent the last few weeks carefully analyzing the job market of pharmacy and debating whether if I should pursue pharmacy over medicine or vice versa. I feel like I will be getting more out of a MD/DO education. Do you think pharmacy is an efficient backup for medical school? I have a feeling that the prereqs are quite similar, so would it be rather troublesome if I finish my bachelors and choose the pharmacy route due to me being rejected from the med schools I apply to?

You really just need to figure out what you truly want to do since both fields are completely different. It seems like you're concerned with income and being a physician does not guarantee you a high paying job. Different fields of medicine flux all the time, in the 80s-90s no one wanted to do Radiology and Anesthesiology. Ophthalmology was once consider one of the pinnacle programs is now struggling in the big cities with starting pays that dips below even some pharmacists. At the time when I was doing my BS, pharmacy had twice as many prereq when compared to MD/DO. So by doing my Rx prereqs, I satisfied both fields. I'm not sure what the schools require now but you may want to double check and make sure if you're doing Rx as a back-up that you are satisfying all the requirements.

As far as MD/DO goes, let your MD or DO be back-up to one another. MD by far will give you more "respect" in the workplace over DO and gives you a little bit more "free time" to do research. However DO, despite being perceived as being easier to get into. You will learn OMM manipulations, holistic (rather than tx acute problems), and ability to apply to both MD/DO residencies (opening more options). So what it comes down to, it's how hard you work now, either get into MD program (AMG) or bust your ass in a DO playing catch-up with a course load that is overloaded (roughly think MD + chiropractor), almost no time for research (required by some residencies) and studying for COMPLEX and USMLE (double the board exams - not fun). You will lose years doing residencies and end up with higher student loans than if you were just to do pharmacy. And depending on what residency + fellowship (if required by your specialty) + location you work will dictate your salary. Furthermore, if you don't place into MD/DO, if you're GPA is weak, do a postbac, if you're MCAT is weak, do a special masters. If both are weak and don't have time, IMG programs but remember only ~50 percent match. To wrap it up, if you want MD/DO, you have a long ways before you hit pharmacy as your back-up. Not sure if this answer you question but hopefully it helps.

 

[Gombrich12]

10 rx/mo pays for building rent and more. Controlled the number of addicts. That's how indy survives... Shady customers, says who? They are our "regulars"!

Also with how easy it is to get a PharmD now I could see a cartel/gang bankrolling a student to open a pharmacy for maybe 2-3 months and close up shop before the board even knows what happens.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Also with how easy it is to get a PharmD now I could see a cartel/gang bankrolling a student to open a pharmacy for maybe 2-3 months and close up shop before the board even knows what happens.

haha, its probably easier to get a PharmD, than to get a properly set up & licensed pharmacy.

 

[PremedSingh]

Also with how easy it is to get a PharmD now I could see a cartel/gang bankrolling a student to open a pharmacy for maybe 2-3 months and close up shop before the board even knows what happens.

Apparently my counselor's child was rejected from every single pharm d program. Dunno how that happened.....