How are VERY old grades viewed?

[Determined 1]

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So here is my situation. I'm a non-trad that is coming back to school after about 11 years out of school. I would have never ever thought when I was 19 that I would be interested in ever being a doctor. I spent the years after undergrad recovering from some issues and illness, as well enjoying a lot of beautiful experiences that life has to offer. The culmunation of these experiences brought me to my current pre-med status.

Here is the thing. I have some very bad grades from undergrad. I was 19-20 years old and did not take school very seriously. I also received some bad advice to take F's in a couple of classes because when I retook the class they would be removed from my record. Wrong!

I am in a Post-Bac program and have a 3.7 in these classes. I still have about 4 more prereq classes to take before I can apply. Do any of you know how seriously the adcom will look at my grades from 12-13 years ago if I do well now in my pre-med classes now?

It kills me that mistakes I made so long ago would impact me so much now.

****Do any of you know of any particular that schools will look at post-bac grades and pre-req grades esp, with more weight? ****
Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[gman33]

All your grades count about the same, with maybe a little more weight on recent performance. The most important thing is your overall UG gpa, which counts all the ug classes you have ever taken. For MD schools, you need to get this into the 3.5 range at a minimum.

DO schools allow you to retake classes and only count the new grades. This is a good deal for someone who has a poor ug record.

Post all your relevant stats if you want more specific advice about how to proceed.

 

[Dave_D]

****Do any of you know of any particular that schools will look at post-bac grades and pre-req grades esp, with more weight? ****
Thanks for your help in advance!

Well sorry to give you the bad news but my experience with most schools is that they weight those old grades pretty highly and give no consideration that you're a different person than you were over a decade ago or reasonable weight to recent scores. (I know, it sucks but that's been my experience.)

 

[Nasrudin]

So here is my situation. I'm a non-trad that is coming back to school after about 11 years out of school. I would have never ever thought when I was 19 that I would be interested in ever being a doctor. I spent the years after undergrad recovering from some issues and illness, as well enjoying a lot of beautiful experiences that life has to offer. The culmunation of these experiences brought me to my current pre-med status.

Here is the thing. I have some very bad grades from undergrad. I was 19-20 years old and did not take school very seriously. I also received some bad advice to take F's in a couple of classes because when I retook the class they would be removed from my record. Wrong!

I am in a Post-Bac program and have a 3.7 in these classes. I still have about 4 more prereq classes to take before I can apply. Do any of you know how seriously the adcom will look at my grades from 12-13 years ago if I do well now in my pre-med classes now?

It kills me that mistakes I made so long ago would impact me so much now.

****Do any of you know of any particular that schools will look at post-bac grades and pre-req grades esp, with more weight? ****
Thanks for your help in advance!

You're up against a virulent strain of Judeo-Christian/old testament view of sin.

You have chosen to leave the tribe. And are now banished to wildernesses unknown.

A barbarian. An outcast.

Dr. Pointdexter who graduated eastern uppity undergrad at 20 in the 60's and is now spending his/her years in the profession in a semi-retirement on an adcom, cares nada about your youthful missteps.

In fact, he is a jealous god. Your sins will be paid. Your application smited in the ashes of Gomarrah.

The best you can hope for is the occasional rebel in the confines of these institutions. Who might find something of themselves in you. Or at least some errant tender mercy.

Take all your money. And your best years of effort. And bet on that. And then you know you'll be as crazy as they come.

 

[ChairmanMao]

You're up against a virulent strain of Judeo-Christian/old testament view of sin.

You have chosen to leave the tribe. And are now banished to wildernesses unknown.

A barbarian. An outcast.

Dr. Pointdexter who graduated eastern uppity undergrad at 20 in the 60's and is now spending his/her years in the profession in a semi-retirement on an adcom, cares nada about your youthful missteps.

In fact, he is a jealous god. Your sins will be paid. Your application smited in the ashes of Gomarrah.

The best you can hope for is the occasional rebel in the confines of these institutions. Who might find something of themselves in you. Or at least some errant tender mercy.

Take all your money. And your best years of effort. And bet on that. And then you know you'll be as crazy as they come.

Basically, what Nasrudin is saying is that the sins of the past (your old GPA) will be factored into your overall AMCAS GPA and it will be factored into the admissions decision. The medical profession is a pretty conservative bunch and the original admissions process was developed in an era when there were very few "non-trad" students and most people went to medical school right out of college.

So yes, the admissions committee will see all of your GPA, including the bad ones. If you have a sub-3.0 overall GPA from 20 years ago, even if you pull a 4.0 for the past 2 years, they will still take someone with a 3.5 overall GPA over you (unless you are a disadvantaged minority or faced extreme hardships when you were young).

That being said, it's not hopeless, you still have a chance if your overall GPA (your bad grades and your newer) grades is higher than a 3.2-3.3 and you have a good overall MCAT score. Besides that, medical school like to see an upward trend and they like you more if you can prove to them that you are serious student. However, if your overall GPA is lower than a 3.0, then you're really in trouble because a lot of medical schools have automatic cut-offs at 3.0 and you will be screened out before your application gets a chance to be reviewed.

 

[ChairmanMao]

****Do any of you know of any particular that schools will look at post-bac grades and pre-req grades esp, with more weight? ****
Thanks for your help in advance!

Unfortunately, I don't know of any school that says "We only look at your new post-bac GPA if you graduated from college a few years ago." They might put more emphasis on it or they might give you greater consideration if you GPA went from a 3.1 in college to a 3.7 in your post-bac program. But you still need to have at least a 3.0 and preferably a 3.5 in order to be a competitive applicant. Your best bet would be to take the MCAT, score as high as you can, and apply broadly and to high number of schools (30 or more schools).

 

[phospho]

You're up against a virulent strain of Judeo-Christian/old testament view of sin.

You have chosen to leave the tribe. And are now banished to wildernesses unknown.

A barbarian. An outcast.

Dr. Pointdexter who graduated eastern uppity undergrad at 20 in the 60's and is now spending his/her years in the profession in a semi-retirement on an adcom, cares nada about your youthful missteps.

In fact, he is a jealous god. Your sins will be paid. Your application smited in the ashes of Gomarrah.

The best you can hope for is the occasional rebel in the confines of these institutions. Who might find something of themselves in you. Or at least some errant tender mercy.

Take all your money. And your best years of effort. And bet on that. And then you know you'll be as crazy as they come.

haha, i love reading your posts!🙂

 

[ShyRem]

I have to agree with the above. My absolutely craptacular grades were OVER TWENTY years old.. and still were looked at as important as the ones I earned the three years prior to application. In fact, I was asked specifically about a course I took 22 years prior to my med school application in two different interviews.

It's possible to overcome the sins of your past. But you may have to be willing to move across the country, apply broadly, figure out if you want to apply to osteopathic and allopathic schools... but it is possible to overcome.

Good luck.

 

[QofQuimica]

****Do any of you know of any particular that schools will look at post-bac grades and pre-req grades esp, with more weight? ****
Thanks for your help in advance!

Every med school will have its own way of evaluating applicants, and none of us can tell you what every school will do. FWIW, my school's adcom does consider trends in academic performance. This could be a nontrad like you who did poorly a decade ago and is now doing well in a post bac, and it could also be a trad who had a rough freshman year and then got their act together as a sophomore and junior.

You've already received plenty of good advice, but here's mine:

1) Continue to take classes and do well in them, particularly upper level science classes. Consider biochem, genetics, psych, or stats if you haven't taken those yet, because some schools require or recommend them.

2) Your performance on the MCAT will be very important. Ideally, you want to shoot for a balanced 30+, meaning that you score 10+ on each section. Don't beat yourself up if you get a 29, or if you get 9 on one section and 11 on another. This isn't an absolute cutoff (at least at my school), but it's a good target.

3) ECs are important, so don't neglect this aspect of your app. My school cares a lot about fit. We expect applicants to have clinical experience of some sort that involves exposure to physicians and patients, and we encourage students to participate in other significant ECs like community service, research, etc. Note that you do not have to do *all* of the common premed ECs (with the exception of clinical exposure). But you should have two or three things that you are passionate about and that you devote significant time to over the course of months or years. For nontrads, some ECs may be a little more off the beaten path, such as work experience, family things, etc. Also, note that in general, it shows more commitment to participate in ECs at a steady rate over several months. In other words, it's better to volunteer 1-2 hours per week for a year than 50 hours in one week during your spring vacation.

4) When you write your PS, start early (March-April) and give it a lot of thought. This is the first chance you have to introduce yourself and make an impression on the adcom. A stellar PS really can make a difference, although it's a lot harder to write a stellar PS than many people realize. When you're done with your draft, make sure you get people to read it. Ask people to critique it and play devil's advocate. If you keep getting the same criticism over and over again, really consider listening to it.

5) When it comes time to apply, as others have already said, apply broadly, and apply smart. Get a copy of the MSAR (put out by the AAMC every spring) and use it to make a list of appropriate potential schools based on your interests, their missions, their acceptance policies, and your credentials. Research the schools you're considering thoroughly. Consider applying to both MD and DO schools; DO schools are particularly good if you've retaken some of the classes that you did poorly in the first time because you can significantly increase your GPA that way.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you. 🙂

 

[CremasterFlash]

i don't think you mentioned what your major was in undergrad 'lo those many years ago. but... if you were a non-science person, then my personal opinion is that you're in better shape since most of your postbacc grades will be the first shot at that particular subject. the argument of course is that not only are you a different person now but you're also a better fit for the sciences than whatever you were studying back in the day... and your science GPA will be stellar.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Basically, what Nasrudin is saying is that the sins of the past (your old GPA) will be factored into your overall AMCAS GPA and it will be factored into the admissions decision. The medical profession is a pretty conservative bunch and the original admissions process was developed in an era when there were very few "non-trad" students and most people went to medical school right out of college.

So yes, the admissions committee will see all of your GPA, including the bad ones. If you have a sub-3.0 overall GPA from 20 years ago, even if you pull a 4.0 for the past 2 years, they will still take someone with a 3.5 overall GPA over you (unless you are a disadvantaged minority or faced extreme hardships when you were young).

That being said, it's not hopeless, you still have a chance if your overall GPA (your bad grades and your newer) grades is higher than a 3.2-3.3 and you have a good overall MCAT score. Besides that, medical school like to see an upward trend and they like you more if you can prove to them that you are serious student. However, if your overall GPA is lower than a 3.0, then you're really in trouble because a lot of medical schools have automatic cut-offs at 3.0 and you will be screened out before your application gets a chance to be reviewed.

I enjoy that we need to interpret and translate his post.

 

[NTF]

Overall GPA will matter no matter how old some of your grades.

Medical schools do take into account upward trends and your recent performance. How much they take it into account depends on how long your period of excellence was after youthful irresponsibility and how high your MCAT is.

When you have a lower overall GPA, the other parts of your applications become all the more important for you (ECs, MCAT, LORs, PS, secondaries, interview). Make sure the rest of your application is exemplar.

There are numerous examples of non-trads with sub-par and even sub 3.0 GPAs that made good on the med school app process. But don't kid yourself. The lower the hole you were in the more damage you did to your chances. For every subpar GPA success story there are many more who didn't make it. So do yourself a favor. Do it smart (apply early, get A's in new course work, build great ECs & LORs, write great essays, apply broadly (MD & DO), and be uber-prepared for interviews). Mitigate that GPA w/ great grades from now on and make the rest of your application stellar.

Good luck! We'll be rooting for you.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

I would call each and every school to ask them how they weight grades.

Colorado has some funky calculation where they double the weight of your best "year" (postbacc counts as a year for us nontrads) and somehow lessen the weight of the "worst" year. But they were looking at changing this in the near future; it may be different for the next app cycle.

I'd look at it this way -- if the primary + secondary for each school costs..maybe $110, and by spending a few days on the phone contacting med schools you can target 20 solid fit school versus 20 mediocre fit school, you can save thousands of wasted app dollars. Which is way more than most of us make in a few days! The rules change from year to year, and there are exceptions and semi-exceptions to the "typical" admissions committee rules mentioned above, I can confirm in general the rules are quite unfriendly to those with youthful grade indiscretions unfortunately.