How bad are Montana, Wyoming, etc

[puahate]

Probably fine if you are white

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Probably fine if you are white

Yeah this is more or less the issue for me
If it was more diverse, had more cultural attractions of my taste (beyond the outdoors) and perhaps better cuisine, I would consider living there due to the COL alone

 

[Raney Schauer]

Yeah this is more or less the issue for me
If it was more diverse, had more cultural attractions of my taste (beyond the outdoors) and perhaps better cuisine, I would consider living there due to the COL alone

Places don't get more diverse until people show up...

... and open restaurants (thereby elevating the cuisine). It's not magic, and it doesn't happen overnight. I may be a white guy, but I don't want to go anywhere I can't get good shawarma, either.

 

[jdh71]

Probably fine if you are white

Probably fine if you are any color

 

[jdh71]

OK, jeez, I apologize for hating on Idaho. I can't say I'm an afficionado, but I've been to enough of the state I guess to say, stay out of the ass section. I didn't know it had a nice section. One of my best friends lives in the ass section, and I used to go visit my ex's grandparents out there too.

The I84 corridor does run throughout the the high desert snake river valley. Eastern OR is rugged and dry. Imposing really. It's a different kind of beauty. The foothills in ID flow on for 30-50 miles because as I understand it they are geologically older. You need to get north of where you drive though the state to find those gorgeous area. It's so rugged and remote you can't just put an interstate through there.

The Boise metro is fantastic. About ~700,000 people in the valley. One of fastest areas growing in the entire country. The only cuisine it's missing is good Chinese but everything else is really well covered except for the Mexican which is surprising considering the sizeable Latino population. I've seen Rent, the Lion King, Phantom of the Opera, and the Book of Mormon (because my wife makes me go to ****ing musicals). I've been to the symphony. Treefort is a kick ass music festival getting bigger each year.

 

[puahate]

Probably fine if you are any color

Lol naw but you do you

 

[Crayola227]

people tend to be surprised to know that a lot of even rural NW isn't all that racist. The NW overall tends to be pretty liberal, even in the red zones.

I find more diverse cities to be more racist, there was an interesting paper I read in the LA Times on that. Something about people living in close quarters and buying into stereotypes more.

Making really good ethnic food, just how you like it, nearly as good restaurant or even moreso, at home, isn't as overwhelming as people think. The biggest barrier is just finding good recipes and getting your hands on the ingredients, which you can usually find online (harder for some specialized fresh ingredients).

I would just encourage people to apply and interview broadly. I interviewed in rural WA, as well as nowhere MI, OKC & Tulsa, in addition to places like Philly or LA. OTOH, I ended up turning down interviews in Nebraska and Idaho (sorry).

Depending on what specialty it is, 1/2 the interview can feel like a travel agency tour of the area. One interview I went on actually loaded us into a bus for a drive tour of the city.

I didn't expect Spokane WA, or Tulsa OK, to have upped its foodie game to the point it was. A lot of programs are in college towns, or near one, and that tends to be a good thing.

In any case, do your homework (clearly I didn't for Idaho, maybe the interview would have sold me on the place), apply, interview, and just consider all the variables.

You need to get enough interviews and rank enough places, period. You can always rank some places lower, but WY or MT is INFINITELY better than not matching.

But I speak as someone who spent 1/2 their upbringing in a huge city, and then spent a lot of time in the middle of nowhere, then a small college town. Anywhere you live is what you make it.

3 years in a **** town in residency is a lot shorter and better than 3 years in a **** residency in a fun town.

I swear to ****ing God, besides how good the actual training is and the culture of your program, the next most important pieces of your happiness is commute and the cafeteria. But that's me.

I remember on the trail some applicants asking how good the clubbing scene was. Are you ****ing kidding me? Ain't nobody got time for that $hit. Actually some residents once told me they did. I would say that I wouldn't expect to be living any more high on the hog or have nearly the free time that you do now in med school, in residency. So just consider that whatever you're doing now is gonna be majorly scaled back.

Actually, a lot of those residencies in slower areas, residents seemed to have a lot more free time, even if the options weren't as good as say Boston. So these slower places can actually be the exception to the above.

3 years without schwarmma won't kill you, especially if you're in a really nice residency program.

 

[Raney Schauer]

The only cuisine it's missing is good Chinese

I found it hard to find good Chinese in most parts of SoCal, too. Too many P.F. Chang's and Panda Expresses.

Good Chinese food = New York.

 

[Crayola227]

The I84 corridor does run throughout the the high desert snake river valley. Eastern OR is rugged and dry. Imposing really. It's a different kind of beauty. The foothills in ID flow on for 30-50 miles because as I understand it they are geologically older. You need to get north of where you drive though the state to find those gorgeous area. It's so rugged and remote you can't just put an interstate through there.

The Boise metro is fantastic. About ~700,000 people in the valley. One of fastest areas growing in the entire country. The only cuisine it's missing is good Chinese but everything else is really well covered except for the Mexican which is surprising considering the sizeable Latino population. I've seen Rent, the Lion King, Phantom of the Opera, and the Book of Mormon (because my wife makes me go to ****ing musicals). I've been to the symphony. Treefort is a kick ass music festival getting bigger each year.

^
This. I didn't know some of Idaho was nice.

 

[Crayola227]

I found it hard to find good Chinese in most parts of SoCal, too. Too many P.F. Chang's and Panda Expresses.

Good Chinese food = New York.

San Fran is good, otherwise I find the West Coast not to be as good as it used to be, historically. I can't remember why, but I read something about why the Chinatowns have declined. There's some decent places in LA. I have no idea about the East Coast as far as that goes.

 

[jdh71]

Lol naw but you do you

Lol. Like you would know. But you do you.

 

[jdh71]

I found it hard to find good Chinese in most parts of SoCal, too. Too many P.F. Chang's and Panda Expresses.

Good Chinese food = New York.

San Francisco too

 

[Crayola227]

San Fran is good, otherwise I find the West Coast not to be as good as it used to be, historically. I can't remember why, but I read something about why the Chinatowns have declined. There's some decent places in LA. I have no idea about the East Coast as far as that goes.

Portland OR used to be amazing, historically, from what I have heard, but they too experienced a major decline of their Chinatown. I don't know about Seattle. Seattle and NYC are the really the only big cities I've yet to really experience.

 

[puahate]

Lol. Like you would know. But you do you.

Yes because i stayed in, visited and lived in those areas. Also know a friend who lived in middle America and did not like it.

Dating sucks irl and online in those area for the most part to, Tinder is a crapshoot at both angles since you don't have the population density AND most women there only date one type of guy. Also there's barely anyone of other races to begin with too.

I'm not even trying to hate. I'm being practical. If you are white those places are fine. If you are not and you are young and still looking for a partner or a solid mix of people avoid anywhere too rural in middle America. If you stick to the metropolitan areas in those states im sure most people will be fine. In my opinion i think if you are older and have your immediate network and family settled then moving to a rural area is fine but for a young person especially nonwhite I'd live in a more diverse area first.

 

[jdh71]

Yes because i stayed in, visited and lived in those areas. Also know a friend who lived in middle America and did not like it.

Dating sucks irl and online in those area for the most part to, Tinder is a crapshoot at both angles since you don't have the population density AND most women there only date one type of guy. Also there's barely anyone of other races to begin with too.

I'm not even trying to hate. I'm being practical. If you are white those places are fine. If you are not and you are young and still looking for a partner or a solid mix of people avoid anywhere too rural in middle America. If you stick to the metropolitan areas in those states im sure most people will be fine. In my opinion i think if you are older and have your immediate network and family settled then moving to a rural area is fine but for a young person especially nonwhite I'd live in a more diverse area first.

Oh. So your anecdote translates. To the whole large area.

I'm not convinced your issues with dating apps supports an argument that it's only good for white people.

What is wrong with dating white prople?

 

[puahate]

Oh. So your anecdote translates. To the whole large area.

I'm not convinced your issues story dating apps supports an argument that it's only good for white people.

What is wrong with dating white prople?

I don't think you read my post well. I have zero issues dating white people. If you look at online dating stats you see that most white people practice endogamy. I don't care who dates who but it's common knowledge that people date within thier race most of the time. This again is not an issue, i been white people before, in fact in my position you kind of have to but in middle America it's definitely harder compared to the coast.

Also these are all opinions in this thread. Im just stating mine, only difference is I'm going against the grain in this thread. I just think if you have the choice live somewhere else.

 

[Crayola227]

I didn't gather whether or not the OP was single or not. At the time of doing my own thing, I was engaged to be married so admittedly wasn't worried about the dating scene. Just food & commute.

 

[puahate]

I didn't gather whether or not the OP was single or not. At the time of doing my own thing, I was engaged to be married so admittedly wasn't worried about the dating scene. Just food & commute.

Like i said in my other post if you are already in a family then you are probably fine. If you are young, single and still need to find a place in the world I'd avoid these areas. Middle America is probably good for the starting a family or retiring regardless of who you are.

 

[jdh71]

I don't think you read my post well. I have zero issues dating white people. If you look at online dating stats you see that most white people practice endogamy. I don't care who dates who but it's common knowledge that people date within thier race most of the time. This again is not an issue, i been white people before, in fact in my position you kind of have to but in middle America it's definitely harder compared to the coast.

Also these are all opinions in this thread. Im just stating mine, only difference is I'm going against the grain in this thread. I just think if you have the choice live somewhere else.

This seems a long way off of your original stupid comment.

So you didn't like it because white girls wouldn't date you. Got it. I still don't see how translates into "probably fine if you are white"

 

[puahate]

This seems a long way off of your original stupid comment.

So you didn't like it because white girls wouldn't date you. Got it. I still don't see how translates into "probably fine if you are white"

When you are trying to start a family its more than just "people not wanting to date me" after years of hard work i want to settle down and start a life.

Also this was just one aspect i didn't like but important one for me at my stage of life. Maybe you already have a loved one but for a lot of us we want to begin finding that person and settling down.

I don't think you really understand at all and only reason i bring this up in here is because i know men of color who were in the Midwest for residency and were fresh out of medical school wanting to start settling down but having trouble because the environment was not conducive of thier goals. These guys were pretty depressed and I felt the same way, only difference was i wasn't stuck there for a particular reason so I could leave. Those guys can't.

Like i said there is nothing wrong with these places if you have a family.

 

[Crayola227]

even if you're single, 3 yrs isn't that long a time if that's what you gotta do

I did 4 years LDR literally cross country, and I'm confident I could have done the 3 yrs in addition after I matched (didn't work out that way but it wasn't on me)

being single isn't as bad as people make it out to be

 

[IMreshopeful]

Places don't get more diverse until people show up...

... and open restaurants (thereby elevating the cuisine). It's not magic, and it doesn't happen overnight. I may be a white guy, but I don't want to go anywhere I can't get good shawarma, either.

It’s more than just the cuisine and restaurants. Its about developing a community there - this is something very difficult to understand if you are not a minority. I have no issues living wherever and working. It’s what I do beyond work. Also I don’t disagree - but it’s unlikely that you’re going to attract the more upper middle income jobs needed to sustain such an increase in diversity (tech, office work, etc).

 

[Money Moniker]

Is it difficult to find physician jobs in the picturesque parts of Wyoming/Montana? As much as I'm sure 'forested mountains' are a more niche taste than 'major metros' and only a small percentage of physicians would be looking to work there, the populations near wilderness areas are also really tiny and probably not big enough to support too many physicians. If anything, I'd guess there are more physicians wanting to work in the nice parts of Wyoming and Montana than there are jobs for them, no?

 

[UWIdahoan]

Is it difficult to find physician jobs in the picturesque parts of Wyoming/Montana? As much as I'm sure 'forested mountains' are a more niche taste than 'major metros' and only a small percentage of physicians would be looking to work there, the populations near wilderness areas are also really tiny and probably not big enough to support too many physicians. If anything, I'd guess there are more physicians wanting to work in the nice parts of Wyoming and Montana than there are jobs for them, no?

No, not difficult. Plenty of people to support a practice. Probably 80% of the counties are “underserved.”

 

[NeuResurgens]

Montana:

Wyoming:

Holy s**t. I miss the west often.

 

[Goro]

What on Earth did Crayola do to get a Banhammer smack???

 

[Raney Schauer]

What on Earth did Crayola do to get a Banhammer smack???

Too many asterisk bombs?

 

[jdh71]

Is it difficult to find physician jobs in the picturesque parts of Wyoming/Montana? As much as I'm sure 'forested mountains' are a more niche taste than 'major metros' and only a small percentage of physicians would be looking to work there, the populations near wilderness areas are also really tiny and probably not big enough to support too many physicians. If anything, I'd guess there are more physicians wanting to work in the nice parts of Wyoming and Montana than there are jobs for them, no?

Depends on your specialty. Primary care, ED, hospitalist or general surgeon? You'll find plenty enough of work so you won't starve. Anything else and you're going to need a bigger spot either because of numbers or medical/technology infrastructure to do your work.

 

[WingedOx]

Back in med school and early residency I fantasized about working a stint in Whitefish/Kalispell. Great skiing and outdoor activity spot and surprisingly livable without the pretentiousness of Colorado ski towns. Reality of settling into an urban residency and getting married kinda killed that dream. That and the fact that Whitefish has changed with a lot more money coming into town so it's attracted a certain type of rich douchebag that used to not be there before.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Yeah, numbers can be an issue for some specialists in small places. although you need to use caution making those calculations. if you were a good ENT or something here, you'd have people willing to drive 3 hrs to see you.