How bad does it look to quit your PhD if you are in an MD/PhD program?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

skeptic85

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
9
Reaction score
3
I am in my 2nd year of the PhD program (4 years into the MD/PhD program) and am contemplating quitting the PhD due to various reasons. My advisor left 6 months into my project and the other advisor who I was interested in working with told me she has no funding for me after 2 months of work. I am in another lab now but I do not think it is a good fit for me. All the other professors that I am interested in do not have funding and/or do not take grad students.

I think the best option for me is to quit. I still love research and think that I just had bad luck. I would like to get a PhD in the future after I finish medical school or at least do a research fellowship.

So my question is how bad would quitting the PhD look in residency applications and if I try to stay in academia? Would I still be able to pursue a research fellowship or a PhD after or during residency? Thanks a lot!
 
I saw your other thread. I think it is reasonable for you to leave considering how poorly things have gone for you. I don't understand how that program could have so poorly advised you as to let you rotate in and join labs of mentors that are leaving and/or have no money. Of course, some of that responsibility should fall on the students. i.e. Everyone should be checking on the funding of potential mentors and asking them if they plan on leaving the institution. That being said, you can get screwed over with the proper protections.

Anyway, I think getting a master's mitigates the problem somewhat because you accomplished some amount of research. It's more important for you to publish at least once, preferably in your future residency field, than it is to actually put in a master's thesis.

For residency programs the top factors are always going to be step 1 and clinical grades. LORs are an important component. Is the dean's letter going to hurt your chances at some programs? I would talk to the medical school and see if they're going to mention that you started as an MD/PhD student there and wound you on your dean's letter by saying you dropped out of the program. If nobody mentions you started as an MD/PhD student, nobody is going to notice or care. If they do mention it, how much this will hurt you depends on how competitive the program is and how sympathetic the PD is going to be to you. In some specialties a single red flag is enough to get you tossed at a lot of programs because of the level of competition, but that's only the highest levels of competition.

That being said, a lot of residency programs don't even read dean's letters so many may not even notice you dropped the MD/PhD. Past residency it's unlikely anyone will ever notice or care.
 
I am in my 2nd year of the PhD program (4 years into the MD/PhD program) and am contemplating quitting the PhD due to various reasons. My advisor left 6 months into my project and the other advisor who I was interested in working with told me she has no funding for me after 2 months of work. I am in another lab now but I do not think it is a good fit for me. All the other professors that I am interested in do not have funding and/or do not take grad students.

I think the best option for me is to quit. I still love research and think that I just had bad luck. I would like to get a PhD in the future after I finish medical school or at least do a research fellowship.

So my question is how bad would quitting the PhD look in residency applications and if I try to stay in academia? Would I still be able to pursue a research fellowship or a PhD after or during residency? Thanks a lot!

Let me offer some words of encouragement and advice.

My first PhD lab I joined out of intellectual interest and some bizarre idea that I could import my own ideas (that I had been thinking about for a while, based on research done elsewhere before the MD/PhD program) into the lab. I left after 2 months. It was a crazy husband-wife pair and my choice to switch was vindicated by a fellow grad student leaving after a year and a half for the same reasons (awful mentors). Big mistake to join a lab out of project interest alone!

I switched into a lab that I had previously rotated in. I was most interested in the disease they studied, although I had not carefully explored what the lab culture was like. It was a bad experience. The mentor was inaccessible, locked door while he was in the office and often wouldn't answer when I knocked, meetings with the mentor 1/month if that. There were no other grad students or post docs, there were two techs and a nutty research professor who has communication issues. No mentorship, unworkable project. After a while I was feeling desperate because I was getting no where. Big mistake to join a lab because they study a disease you are interested in!

After about 1 year in lab 2, the mentor decides to leave the university and academia entirely. He switched to a private hospital. His lab was out of commission for over a year, he lost his access to thousands of patient samples accumulated over 10 years as well as much of his pool of patients. He has tried to rebuild some sort of lab at his new hospital... Obviously, given how bad my research experience had been and the circumstances of his departure, I was thinking of either leaving the program entirely or switching yet again.

This time around I decided not to repeat previous mistakes. I switch departments and labs to a lab I had never rotated with but whose mentor was highly praised and recommended by everyone, including the MD/PhD program director and the graduate program director. He had graduated 3 MD/PhD students in 3 years (or less). He was an MD/PhD himself. Since some people had just graduated, spaced had opened up, and he accepted me.

From the first moment, I learned what good mentorship was all about. Starting slow while I learned the techniques, juggling multiple projects (some small, some larger), allowing me to participate in projects others were leading so I could get some 2nd/3rd authorships, etc. Right now I am about 1.5 years into my work in this lab and the constant thoughts of quitting the MD/PhD I had had in labs 1 and 2 are gone. I am engaged in my work, my two major projects are working well. One of them is pretty much complete and will be written up: a safe project that was going to be publishable whatever the results were (you need one safe project). The other more exciting project is really taking off and for the first time in years (since my pre-MD/PhD days) I actually look forward to going to lab and getting stuff done. I finally know what I'm doing when it comes to a variety of techniques and am able to accumulate in a week the sort of data that might have takne me 2-3 weeks to accumulate at the beginning of my PhD. I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and hoping to graduate 1-1.5 years from now.

And to think I might have quit 2 years ago. I know how you're feeling: incompetent, foolish, nothing to show, lost, scared of the consequences of leaving, suffering, etc. I really think you should give it one more try but this time do not go after any particular project or even department. Go to a lab that has funding and a mentor with a great reputation for graduating students fast, training them well, and great interpersonal skills. The project will become interesting once you start getting interesting data, and with sufficient effort and time, you will.
 
Well, at this point it is too late to switch labs. I am an international student so I do not get NIH funding. My PhD funding comes from the lab and my MD funding comes separately from the medical school itself.

The biology department stepped in for me and are paying me this quarter and they told me that if I do not find a lab by the end of May, I would be out. So I either join this lab or quit the PhD. The other labs that I was interested in did not have funding or the PI's were not interested in taking students anyways 🙁.
 
You have a good reason to leave the PhD program. We had one person leave our MD/PhD program because her mentor left the university after 1.5 years of her project. She got a masters, went back to medical school off-cycle and then did an 18 month post-doc like position before matching. It worked out really well for her and she got into her first choice residency and is continuing to do research.

I think it looks really bad if you leave the PhD program without a good reason because it looks like either you were just there to get the first two years of medical school paid for or you couldn't handle grad school.

I also completely agree with mercapto up thread. Being in the right lab makes an enormous difference. I left my first lab and considered taking a masters and going back to med school but I was convinced to rotate in a few labs first and I found one where I got actual mentorship and it was a completely different and very positive experience even though I wasn't particularly interested in the subject matter going in.

You have a month to find a new lab, start talking to PIs that other other student say are good mentors even if you don't think you are interested in their projects. If you don't find anything, take the master's and be comfortable answering questions about why you left in case any residencies ask. I think you can make it work either way.
 
Top