How bad does pharmacy school look on a med school app?

[desklamp]

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I have seen a few posts about medical schools looking down upon students who a) are currently engaged in a different professional healthcare field and b) do not finish their professional degree before applying.

Is this the general consensus? I have a bachelors, a masters, and am currently in my first year as a pharmacy student contemplating applying to medical school. I am pretty old.

I know it looks bad, but if you feel you should know the entire story to make a better judgement call, I can explain in a later post. Otherwise I was just wondering how bad it would look to have unfinished pharmacy coursework on my AMCAS. My hopes are not high, but I though it would not hurt to run it by you app experts.

Thanks in advance 🙂

 

[gettheleadout]

One thing that can be said for sure, it'll look a lot better if you have good grades during your time there.

 

[desklamp]

One thing that can be said for sure, it'll look a lot better if you have good grades during your time there.

I have a 4.0 currently, 4.0 in my post-bacc work and 3.7 in my graduate work.

Unfortunately my undergraduate GPA is abysmal, which is what has been holding me back from applying to medical school since my pre-med days.

 

[gettheleadout]

I have a 4.0 currently, 4.0 in my post-bacc work and 3.7 in my graduate work.

Unfortunately my undergraduate GPA is abysmal, which is what has been holding me back from applying to medical school since my pre-med days.

I'd rather someone more knowledgeable comment on grad GPA/undergrad GPA, but it's definitely good that you are doing excellently right now. My point was you don't want to appear that you failed out of pharm school.

Be prepared to confidently and truthfully argue why you want to pursue medicine as opposed to pharmacy/other fields.

 

[CoolWhipp]

I'm all about following the dreams but, if your over 35, I would let this fish go. I'm not even one to be worried about age much, I'm taking time off to publish a paper but after 35, jesus.

 

[Catalystik]

IMO you'd be perceived as someone who has trouble following through on commitments. Why give you a precious med school seat when you might want to change focus yet again and go off in a fourth direction? You'd be better off finishing the Pharmacy degree, thinking of a great career goal that meshes pharmacy and medicine (as some successful SDNer applicants have), and applying in your last year of pharmacy school with the support and recommendation letter of your advisor and some science professors.

Age is a nonissue from an adcomm's point of view. Debt, however, might be an important consideration from your perspective.

 

[Revista]

IMO you'd be perceived as someone who has trouble following through on commitments. Why give you a precious med school seat when you might want to change focus yet again and go off in a fourth direction? You'd be better off finishing the Pharmacy degree, thinking of a great career goal that meshes pharmacy and medicine (as some successful SDNer applicants have), and applying in your last year of pharmacy school with the support and recommendation letter of your advisor and some science professors.

Age is a nonissue from an adcomm's point of view. Debt, however, might be an important consideration from your perspective.

That is not true. At 35, it might not be a big deal, however admission committees need to keep in mind that the potential student is not even going to be a "real" doctor for a minimum of 7 years. If they are only going to be able to practice for 5 years after that it would not be worth it to take up some younger person's spot.

 

[StudyShy]

That is not true. At 35, it might not be a big deal, however admission committees need to keep in mind that the potential student is not even going to be a "real" doctor for a minimum of 7 years. If they are only going to be able to practice for 5 years after that it would not be worth it to take up some younger person's spot.

You are assuming that people retire when they are in their 50s. People will not get to retire that young anymore. More than likely, I will be working well into my 70s. I know of practicing physicians in their 60s, 70s, and 80s.

 

[desklamp]

IMO you'd be perceived as someone who has trouble following through on commitments. Why give you a precious med school seat when you might want to change focus yet again and go off in a fourth direction? You'd be better off finishing the Pharmacy degree, thinking of a great career goal that meshes pharmacy and medicine (as some successful SDNer applicants have), and applying in your last year of pharmacy school with the support and recommendation letter of your advisor and some science professors.

Age is a nonissue from an adcomm's point of view. Debt, however, might be an important consideration from your perspective.

I'm actually 26, and have been pre-med from the beginning. Would that help the situation at all? Tbh the only reason i chose to go for clinical pharmacy was because it was the closest thing I could get to medicine with my uGPA (drugs are interesting of course, but it was more of my "second" choice). The only reason I did grad school was to boost my gpa and prove to any admissions committees that I could succeed in an academic environment for admission to pharmacy school.

The reason for reconsidering now is because I feel like, maybe I have done enough to offset my horrid uGPA, and i worry that if I don't try for med school now I never will be able to (not getting any younger.)

Am I mislead? I suppose it would be wiser to wait until finishing pharmacy school but that's an extra 2 years of paying 36,000 :/.

 

[alwaysaangel]

That is not true. At 35, it might not be a big deal, however admission committees need to keep in mind that the potential student is not even going to be a "real" doctor for a minimum of 7 years. If they are only going to be able to practice for 5 years after that it would not be worth it to take up some younger person's spot.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. In general, adcomms don't take age into account.

Yes, lots of premeds think they should for the reasons you described, but most don't. If there is a qualified applicant who is older they will be considered. We had two 40 year olds in my class when we started.

 

[alwaysaangel]

I'm actually 26, and have been pre-med from the beginning. Would that help the situation at all? Tbh the only reason i chose to go for clinical pharmacy was because it was the closest thing I could get to medicine with my uGPA (drugs are interesting of course, but it was more of my "second" choice). The only reason I did grad school was to boost my gpa and prove to any admissions committees that I could succeed in an academic environment for admission to pharmacy school.

The reason for reconsidering now is because I feel like, maybe I have done enough to offset my horrid uGPA, and i worry that if I don't try for med school now I never will be able to (not getting any younger.)

Am I mislead? I suppose it would be wiser to wait until finishing pharmacy school but that's an extra 2 years of paying 36,000 :/.

Here's what I would think if I were reading your application/interviewing you.

So first you didn't do well in undergrad, then you did a graduate degree to improve your GPA for medical school, then you entered pharmacy school to...further improve your academic record???

What did you tell the pharmacy schools when you applied, I doubt you told them that you were just doing it to get into medical school.

As Catalyst said I would be worried about your commitment to medicine and ability to stay focused and finish something. I would also worry about your maxing out on your federal loans and being unable to pay.

And depending on your answer to "why do you want to be a physician." I would question your understanding of the field.

I'm not trying to be mean, but this is what going to pharmacy school is going to do to you. No, the course work isn't going to help. Proving you did well in Pharmacy school is not a stepping stone in medicine, its going to be a big hurdle that you will have to explain to admissions committees. If I were you I would finish pharm school and then see what you can do with that that ties into medicine (some pharmacists in hospitals are VERY involved in patient care.) If that eventually brings you back to med school then so be it.

Being a doctor isn't everything (and isn't the only way to work with patients in the medical field) and I question the maturity of people who see no roads except for MD.

 

[Catalystik]

We had two 40 year olds in my class when we started.

And I work with a doc who entered med school in his 50s.

 

[desklamp]

U

Here's what I would think if I were reading your application/interviewing you.

So first you didn't do well in undergrad, then you did a graduate degree to improve your GPA for medical school, then you entered pharmacy school to...further improve your academic record???

What did you tell the pharmacy schools when you applied, I doubt you told them that you were just doing it to get into medical school.

As Catalyst said I would be worried about your commitment to medicine and ability to stay focused and finish something. I would also worry about your maxing out on your federal loans and being unable to pay.

And depending on your answer to "why do you want to be a physician." I would question your understanding of the field.

I'm not trying to be mean, but this is what going to pharmacy school is going to do to you. No, the course work isn't going to help. Proving you did well in Pharmacy school is not a stepping stone in medicine, its going to be a big hurdle that you will have to explain to admissions committees. If I were you I would finish pharm school and then see what you can do with that that ties into medicine (some pharmacists in hospitals are VERY involved in patient care.) If that eventually brings you back to med school then so be it.

Being a doctor isn't everything (and isn't the only way to work with patients in the medical field) and I question the maturity of people who see no roads except for MD.

There is a huge difference between what you are able to do and are expected to do as an MD and a clinical pharmacist, or an RN. All work with patients.
As far as your advice, you are probably right about pharm school looking bad.

However I feel like I need to clarify the situation. I did poorly in undergrad because of several personal reasons which distracted me from developing good study habits and Direction. As a result I was pillaged in the rear by Hopkins. I blame no one but myself as i could have handled the situation much more cleanly, but I was advised to give up med school due to gpa and try something in the healthcare field that was more realistic. A mentor suggested pharmacy, i looked into it, shadowed etc. then entered a 1 year "bridge" masters program to get recs and improve my gpa for pharm school (not med school as you said).

Secondly, Although coursework for pharmacy school is different from med school, it really isn't that different from what is expected of undergrad pre meds or irrelevant to medicine. We take pathology, in depth Chemistry, biochemistry, clinical research courses, patient counseling, pharmacology etc. Furthermore doing well, while not guaranteeing success in med school, shows focus and good study habits. At least that is my opinion though I may be biased. 😉

Anyway sorry for the long post. I agree with much of what you said and appreciate the advice 🙂

 

[alwaysaangel]

U

There is a huge difference between what you are able to do and are expected to do as an MD and a clinical pharmacist, or an RN. All work with patients.
As far as your advice, you are probably right about pharm school looking bad.

However I feel like I need to clarify the situation. I did poorly in undergrad because of several personal reasons which distracted me from developing good study habits and Direction. As a result I was pillaged in the rear by Hopkins. I blame no one but myself as i could have handled the situation much more cleanly, but I was advised to give up med school due to gpa and try something in the healthcare field that was more realistic. A mentor suggested pharmacy, i looked into it, shadowed etc. then entered a 1 year "bridge" masters program to get recs and improve my gpa for pharm school (not med school as you said).

Secondly, Although coursework for pharmacy school is different from med school, it really isn't that different from what is expected of undergrad pre meds or irrelevant to medicine. We take pathology, in depth Chemistry, biochemistry, clinical research courses, patient counseling, pharmacology etc. Furthermore doing well, while not guaranteeing success in med school, shows focus and good study habits. At least that is my opinion though I may be biased. 😉

Anyway sorry for the long post. I agree with much of what you said and appreciate the advice 🙂

I wasn't trying to suggest you weren't hard working or a bad person for doing poorly in undergrad. I'm just trying to explain to you what med schools are going to think. They aren't going to think that starting pharm school and doing well then dropping out to go to med school shows focus, I'm sorry. They're going to think it shows a very fickle, immature person who can't decide what they want in life.

I know its not what you want to hear, but at this point you really need to finish pharm school and then decide what you want to do. Med school admissions are not going to look kindly on the change. I mean if you have a couple thousand bucks lying around then fill out the applications and see what happens, but you will likely have nothing to show for it.

Yes, some people do it but most FINISH one career training then change with good reasons why nursing or pharm wasn't for them. Or how they are going to combine the careers into something amazing. But you aren't at that point yet.

 

[desklamp]

I wasn't trying to suggest you weren't hard working or a bad person for doing poorly in undergrad. I'm just trying to explain to you what med schools are going to think. They aren't going to think that starting pharm school and doing well then dropping out to go to med school shows focus, I'm sorry. They're going to think it shows a very fickle, immature person who can't decide what they want in life.

I know its not what you want to hear, but at this point you really need to finish pharm school and then decide what you want to do. Med school admissions are not going to look kindly on the change. I mean if you have a couple thousand bucks lying around then fill out the applications and see what happens, but you will likely have nothing to show for it.

Yes, some people do it but most FINISH one career training then change with good reasons why nursing or pharm wasn't for them. Or how they are going to combine the careers into something amazing. But you aren't at that point yet.

Ok point taken. I have definitely heard before that most med schools want you to finish your degree before matriculation, although for the sake of argument, I respectfully disagree with adcoms on the lack of commitment thing.

To me, choosing an alternate route because your first choice (med school) was literally impossible at the time is different from initially choosing a path such as nursing or pharmacy, and then changing your mind half way through. Also, maybe it takes being in this position to empathize, but being willing to drop out of a professional program that you are doing well in to switch careers seems like a strong commitment to medicine for me.

I guess should have picked a shorter back-up degree program. Sigh.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Ok point taken. I have definitely heard before that most med schools want you to finish your degree before matriculation, although for the sake of argument, I respectfully disagree with adcoms on the lack of commitment thing.

To me, choosing an alternate route because your first choice (med school) was literally impossible at the time is different from initially choosing a path such as nursing or pharmacy, and then changing your mind half way through. Also, maybe it takes being in this position to empathize, but being willing to drop out of a professional program that you are doing well in to switch careers seems like a strong commitment to medicine for me.

I guess should have picked a shorter back-up degree program. Sigh.

Well I wish you luck. You came here with a question: how your path would seem to admissions committees (which is what matters-and they are not in your position so they likely won't empathize). You got the same answer from a couple of people and you disagree because its not the answer you wanted to hear. Which is fine. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out for you.

 

[StudyShy]

I would finish the pharmacy program and apply for med school during your final year. Two years go by so quickly. I wish you luck! 🙂

 

[rxlea]

Desklamp, if pharmacy is not what you want to do, jump ship now. Apply to med school and get on with your desired career. I can relate to the age thing. I am almost 28. But, in the grand scheme of things, that's still pretty young. GL

 

[rHinO1]

Sorry, but you are incorrect. In general, adcomms don't take age into account.

Yes, lots of premeds think they should for the reasons you described, but most don't. If there is a qualified applicant who is older they will be considered. We had two 40 year olds in my class when we started.

Had? When you started?

What happened to them?

 

[alwaysaangel]

Had? When you started?

What happened to them?

Well now they're 44...and one that wasn't 40 is 39. They got older.

 

[rHinO1]

Well now they're 44...and one that wasn't 40 is 39. They got older.

that's better than what I was thinking... sounded like they quit or something.

 

[CoolWhipp]

That would be one hell of an EC you got there. Jump ship vote +1.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I would hate to sound like an ignorant optomist who has no basis in reality, but I really don't think that the MD route is out of the picture for you. Are your chances as good as someone with a more straightforward story? No. Are they zero or even close to zero? Also no.

My advice: finish pharm school and then apply (or apply before your 4th year of pharm school to not waste time between the two). My reasoning is that your chances are already hurt by your low ugrad GPA and your convoluted academic path. The last thing you want to is to quit pharm school, appear as someone who cannot commit to anything to see it to the end, not get into med school, and be a 30 year old with 3 years of rejections, and no degree to show for it.

Summary: finishing pharm school will look better for adcoms AND serve as a great plan B in case you never get accepted to med school.

One more thing: when you apply, in your personal statement and interviews, you want to convince the adcoms that you did not know you wanted to be a doctor or that you didn't believe you could do it until the year you apply. Make it sound like that this is the first time in your life that you firmly decided that medicine is for you, and that you are going at it w/ all you got.

 

[DrOoze]

My 3 cents. If pharmacy is NOT for him why should he remain in the program and spend thousands of dollars knowing that this is not what he wants to do. If I was on the admissions committee I would think that this person is not too bright. LOL A friend of mine completed 2 years of the pharmacy program and then decided to quit. He went to grad school and after he got his masters degree, he applied to medical schools and got in without a problem. He was never asked about pharmacy school in any of his interviews.

 

[ACSurgeon]

My 3 cents. If pharmacy is NOT for him why should he remain in the program and spend thousands of dollars knowing that this is not what he wants to do. If I was on the admissions committee I would think that this person is not too bright. LOL A friend of mine completed 2 years of the pharmacy program and then decided to quit. He went to grad school and after he got his masters degree, he applied to medical schools and got in without a problem. He was never asked about pharmacy school in any of his interviews.

And I know someone who attended dental school for half of a semester and got into med school 5 years after leaving dental school. The common factor in our anecdotes is the time gap between quitting your professional program and getting in med school (along with what you did in that time). If the OP were to quit not, he won't get accepted next year or the year after. It will be a while and might never happen. Unless the OP thinks he'll hate pharmacy and kill himself, I think his best bet is to get that degree, as a back-up plan if nothing else. Also, his history of multiple graduate/professional programs is already a red flag... quitting his current program makes him a flight risk.

I think it would be easier to convince adcoms that he had some epipheny during pharm school that made him want to become a doctor. If he gets one school to believe him, he's in. If he quits pharm school, he might end up with nothing.

Bottom line: adcoms will have different opinions as we've demonstrated in this thread. Some will discard his application, some will consider him. He'll need to apply broadly and cross his fingers that someone will take a chance on him.