How Bad is this Going to Look??

[FML]

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Ok so after having a huge fight with my bio dept, I have a huge problem:

Firstly, I'm in the process of applying to med school (I've completed the majority of my secondaries) and I am going to graduate in December 2009.

but here's the short version: it turns out I need to take 20 credits (an overload of classes) next semester to graduate on time and I cannot change ANY of those classes for they are requirements for my major because prior classes I had taken all of a sudden aren't going to be counted for my major (going into the details of the issue of b*tch-***** professors would constitute the long version so I won't go there).

now it will be nearly impossible to take those 20 credits because (a) one class overlaps with another (b) it's 20 credits of extremely hard advanced classes.

so do I take said 20 credits somehow OR change my major to biology in which case I would only have to take very minimal easy classes?

the problem with changing my major from neuroscience to biology is that I've mentioned my interest in neuroscience and that it is my collegiate field of study in my PS and even in some of my secondaries. I have also done research in 2 neuroscience labs.

I really wanted to graduate with a degree in neuroscience (esp bc I did mention it in my med school apps and I am genuinely interested in the academics) but then again undergraduate degree means virtually nothing when you are going to any type of graduate school esp med school right?

basically my question is that if I were to change my major, how bad would it look to med schools given my circumstances?

thanks for any advice

 

[rockaction]

Is it at all possible that you can graduate in spring 2010?

 

[OneMCATAway]

Is it at all possible that you can graduate in spring 2010?

i was thinking the same thing or if you are in a quarter system, winter 2010! then you can spread out the hard neuroscience classes and still finish with the same degree 🙂

 

[osumc2014]

Is it at all possible that you can graduate in spring 2010?

yea FML sounds like you are going have to push back...sorry about the situation though...that happened to a friend of mine but it was after her last quarter so she had to go one more 🙁

 

[NeuroNerd2010]

It seems like your options are:

1) Change your major to biology and graduate in December. As long as you have a bachelor's degree, you shouldn't have problems being accepted. You can always clear up the change in major at an interview or with an update letter if you feel you need to.

2) Stay with neuroscience and graduate in the spring. It sound like you're applying for admission in the Fall of 2010, so would delaying your graduation be a huge problem?

If I were you, I'd stick it out until the spring, but only you can decide what's best for you. I wish you luck!

 

[acridknight]

It seems like your options are:

1) Change your major to biology and graduate in December. As long as you have a bachelor's degree, you shouldn't have problems being accepted. You can always clear up the change in major at an interview or with an update letter if you feel you need to.

2) Stay with neuroscience and graduate in the spring. It sound like you're applying for admission in the Fall of 2010, so would delaying your graduation be a huge problem?

If I were you, I'd stick it out until the spring, but only you can decide what's best for you. I wish you luck!

👍 ditto.
i'd take the extension to SP '10 if possible (if, say, money is an is an issue, then go with the route of changing your major. just know that there will be this minor change to your app that you'll have to bring up in interviews, etc.)

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

It wouldn't look bad to med schools, because you've already finished most secondaries based on info that was correct at the time. The situation changed, and you adjusted. I can write this based on experience; in two instances (both undergrad and grad) I was looking at one path, and changed my major/concentration slightly due to the difficulty of finishing those last few classes. It really didn't matter and hasn't impacted me in any way other than I would've enjoyed having double majored undergrad, or had the slightly more difficult grad concentration on my diploma; outside of that, no one has ever mentioned this topic.

If you're interested in the topico of neuroscience, taking a group of advanced classes + lab work would look impressive even if you have a bio major rather than neuroscience major. Maybe you could take some of the neuroscience classes, but not all of the ones needed to major in it your final semester. I'd think carefully about how to address this when you interview; focus on your lab work and interest in taking a number of the more advanced neuroscience classes beyond what your Bio major required, NOT that the bio dep't staff are jerks that you don't like at all.

Another consideration, hopefully not needed: many applicants need to become reapplicants. If this is the case for you, your GPA in your final semester beomes very important. It'd be wise to get really good grades in your final semester, just in case.

 

[FML]

thanks for all the responses people!

sorry that I forgot to mention that delaying to Spring '10 isn't possible due to financial issues 🙁

eesh, I still don't know what to do about this 🙁

 

[vman51]

I'd say change the major..you still have taken nueroscience courses, you don't have to major in something to show interest..

and as nontrdgsbuiucmd said, the situation changed and you adjusted..i think itll be fine..http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?u=196381

 

[rockaction]

Then I'd say switch. :\

The med schools won't care that much. It's a minor change. But as far as how you feel about it...be consoled that you'll get your fair share of neuroscience in med school. And you can always do more neuro research. Since it's a financial thing, you gotta go with what you can to finish your bachelor's.

 

[red10]

you still have a focus in neurosci even if it isnt specifically on your degree. You're still equally interested in it and you still have research experience in it. I don't think anyone is going to seriously give you a hard time about it

 

[davidlee4mvp]

i personally don't think switching is a big deal at all. my major was originally biophysical chemistry, but i realized i could graduate earlier (and save a lot of money) by simply not taking the last class of that major and switching to a standard chemistry major. put it this way: if you were a medical school evaluation committee what would look stranger/be more a red flag to you? someone changing their major from neuro to bio or someone not graduating on time?

if anyone asks in an interview, just be honest about the situation, they will probably not throw a fit about it.

 

[fMRI]

but here's the short version: it turns out I need to take 20 credits (an overload of classes) next semester to graduate on time and I cannot change ANY of those classes for they are requirements for my major because prior classes I had taken all of a sudden aren't going to be counted for my major (going into the details of the issue of b*tch-***** professors would constitute the long version so I won't go there).

Sorry about your situation and sorry about your use of expletives.
If there was a change of degree requirements, they usually "grandfather in" the courses you have taken. It is either graduate according to the new rules or according to the old rules. When you took those classes back then, they counted towards your major, right? So if they did, go back and nicely ask if you could graduate according to the "old rules" that were in effect when you took these classes.

No program at a reputable university will be setting a precedent and force you to change your major if you studied towards a degree/concentration and this has been *ON RECORD* (like you confirming your intended major a while ago -- so the department knew about you and had to take your circumstances into consideration when re-designing requirements). I know one student who graduated with special permission from the dean without a required course because it wasn't offered that semester (it was offered regularly every semester and they had to skip one semester -- so again, not her fault, she got to take a different upper-level course instead).

Again, please change your attitude because you'll catch more flies with honey. 😀

And yes, it would look bad on your application if you claimed that you were a neuroscience major and then present a biology degree instead. In the very least, I would get the department head to write a nice letter (open) explaining your special circumstances.

 

[FML]

Sorry about your situation and sorry about your use of expletives.
If there was a change of degree requirements, they usually "grandfather in" the courses you have taken. It is either graduate according to the new rules or according to the old rules. When you took those classes back then, they counted towards your major, right? So if they did, go back and nicely ask if you could graduate according to the "old rules" that were in effect when you took these classes.

No program at a reputable university will be setting a precedent and force you to change your major if you studied towards a degree/concentration and this has been *ON RECORD* (like you confirming your intended major a while ago -- so the department knew about you and had to take your circumstances into consideration when re-designing requirements). I know one student who graduated with special permission from the dean without a required course because it wasn't offered that semester (it was offered regularly every semester and they had to skip one semester -- so again, not her fault, she got to take a different upper-level course instead).

Again, please change your attitude because you'll catch more flies with honey. 😀

And yes, it would look bad on your application if you claimed that you were a neuroscience major and then present a biology degree instead. In the very least, I would get the department head to write a nice letter (open) explaining your special circumstances.

yea sorry about the expletives; when I was writing it was just the climax of the situation and I was rather ticked off

to address what you were saying about being grandfathered in, in addition to that issue there is an issue of not being able to get into a class that is only offered once a year and they have already been gracious enough to grant me an exception there and take another course but that course is not fitting into my schedule becuase of other requirements.... long and frustrating story to say the least.

I guess I am just going to have to change my major, but how would you all propose I address that in the application process? Should I send in an update letter now? Should I not talk abut it at all and just have it come up at the end when I have to send in final transcripts (if I were actually able to get accepted somewhere)?

thanks for all the posts people, seems between you guys and my friends there is def a consensus

 

[danimjo]

I agree with the previous post saying that its easier to catch flies with honey. Find out where the miscommunication occurred. If in actuality you have no blame what so ever for it, it was not a misunderstanding on your part, or you have had the same declared major for several years and started that major under an old handbook you should be able to apply courses to your neuroscience major. If you have a personality conflict with the professors in your biology department and find yourself unable to politely and maturely discuss the issue with them (this is not a dig at you, I just know that sometimes I get so worked up its a challenge to be mature), you should request a visit with your Dean of Undergraduate studies. The dean plays a vital role in setting all graduation requirements, and he will also have copies of the new and old handbooks to discuss any changes, and why they shouldn't apply to you. Regardless of what the Biology department thinks of you, the Dean of Undergraduate Studies has the final say.

 

[LovelyBRass]

Wait, why is it essential that you graduate in December? You can take 16 credits this coming semester and the last four in the Spring, no? You can still work, if that's what you were planning to do, and you can have your Neuroscience degree too!

 

[StPlayrXtreme]

Can you petition to get a similar non-overlapping class to count towards the neuroscience class?

If you can do that, 20 credits isn't unheard of. Are you confident in your application to med school? Spring semester doesn't really come into play for med school admissions, with the exception of waitlists or if you have to reapply.

You've put in the work so far, and if you like the program I think you should stick with it. What about over winter break? Some schools offer 2 credit classes over the break.

 

[FML]

Can you petition to get a similar non-overlapping class to count towards the neuroscience class?

If you can do that, 20 credits isn't unheard of. Are you confident in your application to med school? Spring semester doesn't really come into play for med school admissions, with the exception of waitlists or if you have to reapply.

You've put in the work so far, and if you like the program I think you should stick with it. What about over winter break? Some schools offer 2 credit classes over the break.

I've asked everyone I can about this at school and they said nothing would come of petitioning to the dean but then again I haven't actually done it yet so idk. And I'm waiting on a petition to try and take a non-overlapping (but equally hard) class that would still leave me at 20 credits. And even in order to take 20 credits, I have to petition since my school's limit is 18/semester and it is clearly stated that they do not consider finishing a degree faster as a valid reason so that's just another thing I would have to fight for.

but again I can't do another semester for financial reasons so I have to either find a way to physically (and mentally) take the 20 credits or just change my major.

and as I asked before, if I were to change my major, how would I address this in the application process? just leave it until asked about it?

 

[bihari]

you still have a focus in neurosci even if it isnt specifically on your degree. You're still equally interested in it and you still have research experience in it. I don't think anyone is going to seriously give you a hard time about it

agreed

 

[movax]

Take the 20 credits. I've been doing 24 for the past year, and 20 since I got to school. Its very possible - just triage your coursework ruthlessly.

Be nice to your registrar, and they will probably sign off on the override form + conflicting-courses form. I buy my registrars' office a box of donuts every time they sneak me through something they really shouldn't 😉

 

[BerlinDude]

Suck it up, take the 20 credits, and quit whining.

I did over 25 credits of tough classes with research on the side.
What's the secret? Suck It Up.

 

[shiftingmirage]

basically my question is that if I were to change my major, how bad would it look to med schools given my circumstances?

Once accepted, med schools don't care what you do as long as you graduate with a degree, and don't fail/get a D in a class. So switch your major. It's your last semester of college, don't kill yourself with all the coursework.

 

[JasonE]

if the classes you took counted for the major when you took them, and they changed the rules afterward, THEY CANNOT MAKE YOU TAKE ANOTHER CLASS THATS THE RULES. take it to one of the dean's in charge. don't just let this go!

 

[redlight]

Suck it up, take the 20 credits, and quit whining.

I did over 25 credits of tough classes with research on the side.
What's the secret? Suck It Up.

lemme guess.. 4.3 gpa that semester? you are so awesome.

now back to the OP's reality

20 credits of tough bio courses? sounds like med school! so that means you can do it if you prioritize your classes and put almost everything else in the backseat.

if you cannot allot that much time to your courses, can you take spring semester part time?

worst case senario, take out loans.

 

[FML]

if the classes you took counted for the major when you took them, and they changed the rules afterward, THEY CANNOT MAKE YOU TAKE ANOTHER CLASS THATS THE RULES. take it to one of the dean's in charge. don't just let this go!

yea it's not just this issue of changing major requirements. It's that, for which I already have a petition submitted, and then also a similar type of thing where a professor told me I could take X class to fulfill a certain requirement, I take that class, and now all of a sudden it doesn't fulfill the requirement and my advisor now says that it is impossible that she could have adivsed me that it did...

problem is that the previous conversation was done in-person and I have no proof of it... it's complicated to say the least 🙁

and the reality is that I do not think I would be able to devote enough time to 20credits of tough math and bio classes (I've taken 19 credits before with full-on ec's and that was my worst semester) especially because I have a part-time job to help pay for school and two internships (unfortunately I applied to those thinking I was going to have an easy courseload)

 

[JasonE]

do you have anything from webpages? have you tried looking on the wayback maching (google it) to find archived information? also, do you mind saying where you go to undergrad? i have a feeling you go to my school (based on the type of situation not you as a person)

 

[nabeel76]

My advice would be to keep the major, take 14-15 credits this fall and finish the next 5-6 credits during the spring semester on student loans. With only 5-6 credits during the spring you could even work close to full time if you really need to pay off those loans, which are deferable by the way.

In the long run if you worked 4 years towards a neuroscience degree than why let one semester of loans get in the way? Even though it won't make a difference to anybody else it will still make a difference to you in terms of personal satisfaction.

 

[redlight]

i think i know which school op goes to..i have a few good friends who go there.. including a neuroscience major...do you really think that's relevant information though?

so yeah im starting to think the spring part time semester is the best option. try and find a job on campus.

 

[JasonE]

i was just curious because i wouldn't put it past this school to screw over an undergrad. they dont care about anything except $

 

[somemom]

Can you get them to make an exception to the units being done in residency and take one or two in a summer session near your home? A quarter school might still have a session that has not yet begun.

 

[Bacchus]

thanks for all the responses people!

sorry that I forgot to mention that delaying to Spring '10 isn't possible due to financial issues 🙁

eesh, I still don't know what to do about this 🙁

Have you talked to financial aid? They might be able to increase your already-processed loans, find a loan for you, or allow you to use the university as a lender in this pinch.

 

[Cunninglinguist]

Have you talked to financial aid? They might be able to increase your already-processed loans, find a loan for you, or allow you to use the university as a lender in this pinch.

You're financial aid dept. must be a lot friendlier than mine...


OP, that's a tough situation. I say you switch to Bio if you don't have any other alternatives.

 

[fMRI]

20 credits are 20 credits. If they are in difficult courses or easy courses, that is *your* decision. Get over this part, and you shouldn't bring that up in a discussion of your academic career.

Have you considered the magic word "independent study"? The course that doesn't fit in your schedule might be replaceable with independent study credits -- that's not unheard of either. You just do the work on your own and write a long paper at the end and sit an exam (usually essay type) where you'll get a chance to prove that you learned the stuff. You could cover the reading list from the course that you cannot take and give it your twist, by adding some extra materials that you like.

Best of luck!

 

[Tin Man]

thanks for all the responses people!

sorry that I forgot to mention that delaying to Spring '10 isn't possible due to financial issues 🙁

eesh, I still don't know what to do about this 🙁

I'm confused.

How is it going to cost much more to spread out your 20 hours of classes? 20 hours is 20 hours, whether you pay for them all at once or over the course of two semesters. The only additional costs per semester consist of what, parking? A new student ID?

In other words, which weighs more: a pound of bricks, or a pound of feathers?

 

[futureboy]

I'm confused.

How is it going to cost much more to spread out your 20 hours of classes? 20 hours is 20 hours, whether you pay for them all at once or over the course of two semesters. The only additional costs per semester consist of what, parking? A new student ID?

Some schools have a flat full-time semester/quarter tuition rate and don't charge extra for hours over 12.

OP, if you really want the neuroscience major, find a way to finish it. I was faced with a similar situation and decided to graduate with a general concentration in my major instead of the concentration I had been working on. It hasn't made any difference in how things turned out in my career, but sometimes I wish I would have just taken the extra semester and finished what I started.

 

[FML]

to clarify, I cannot (I don't think) do independent study because these are lab and math courses. and like futureboy mentioned, one more semester above 12 credits would cost me a flat full-time fee. and to compound the problem, the courses needed are only offered in the fall semester... great scheduling on the school's part

arg, well before I was leaning towards changing my major, but now I feel like I really should finish what I start.... at least I have a few weeks to decide at this point

also, I go to a medium-small school in PA. that's all I'm willing to say lol

 

[Bacchus]

You're financial aid dept. must be a lot friendlier than mine...


OP, that's a tough situation. I say you switch to Bio if you don't have any other alternatives.

Financial aid is there to help you, not hinder you.

 

[futureboy]

to clarify, I cannot (I don't think) do independent study because these are lab and math courses. and like futureboy mentioned, one more semester above 12 credits would cost me a flat full-time fee. and to compound the problem, the courses needed are only offered in the fall semester... great scheduling on the school's part

arg, well before I was leaning towards changing my major, but now I feel like I really should finish what I start.... at least I have a few weeks to decide at this point

also, I go to a medium-small school in PA. that's all I'm willing to say lol

You could always ask the dean if you could borrow a time turner pendant so you can be in conflicting classes simultaneously, like Hermione Granger did in Harry Potter/Prisoner of Azkaban.

 

[Reticent]

also, I go to a medium-small school in PA. that's all I'm willing to say lol

Most (all?) of the "medium-small" schools in PA have cross-registration agreements with another school near-by. That might help you circumvent scheduling conflicts if nothing else.

For example: CMU can cross-register at Pitt, F&M at Millersville, etc.

Best of luck.

 

[Cunninglinguist]

Financial aid is there to help you, not hinder you.

You sound like an optimist. It's nice to see that.

If you had gone through my financial aid department you wouldn't be so optimistic. 90% of them were idiots and you would get a different story every time you went in. I'm glad your experience didn't mirror mine. I'm sure grad/med school will be better, but we're not talking about that. 😉

 

[FML]

You could always ask the dean if you could borrow a time turner pendant so you can be in conflicting classes simultaneously, like Hermione Granger did in Harry Potter/Prisoner of Azkaban.

well if that was the case, then I wouldn't even have a problem because I wouldn't be at my current school. I would be at Hogwarts😍

Most (all?) of the "medium-small" schools in PA have cross-registration agreements with another school near-by. That might help you circumvent scheduling conflicts if nothing else.

For example: CMU can cross-register at Pitt, F&M at Millersville, etc.

Best of luck.

that's a good idea that I hadn't thought of. thank you

edit: but I don't think you can take major requirements anywhere other than the home school 🙁 so that won't work