How best to evaluate a peds residency from afar?

[izzyfine]

Hey All,

I was wondering how everybody went about evaluating a pediatric residency program without interviewing there. I'm sure this has been asked before but didn't have the energy to look through all the posts and find it more therapeutic to type out my questions.

Initially I put a lot of weight in whether or not they had an independent children's hospital but just because it has a free standing building doesn't tell you anything about the services there. For example U of F gainesville has a better rep (and board pass rates) than does U of F Jacksonville even though the Jacksonville program has Wolfson's Children's Hospital.

I think rep tends to correlate with whether it is a university or community based program.

Then I thought maybe you should look at what percentage IMGs there are but I was just at one program that had many many american grads (7/8 residents per class) but there is no way that program was as good as some other residencies I know of that have more IMGs. For example Westchester Medical Center has a lot of IMGs but they see a lot more than you would at some smaller programs.

Then some say "will you be happy there?" but I haven't been really happy since nursery school so it sorta seems silly to think I will start being happy again after a 23 year dry spell during extreme stress

Any thoughts? If you had to pick ONE variable on which to decide the strength of a program what would it be?

As of right now I'm leaning toward board pass rates. I mean if >90% of residents pass on their first attempt at taking the boards then the program has to be doing something right...right?

Izzy-

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[BigRedMachine]

So my home pediatrics program had a dinner night for all the 4th year students applying to peds prior to all the madness starting and they had anonymous question/answer with the program director and many residents on interviewing, what to do, things to look for etc. Some of the pearls that I took away and that the program director stressed:

1. On the interview day most of the experience should be you involved with the residents somehow. Basically the program director will give their song and dance number and maybe something from the head of the hospital, but other than that it should be mostly resident focused. He said that if outside of those 2 areas the rest of the day isn't primarily spent with residents, then they are hiding them from you for a reason and something is fishy.

2. Ask about average number of admits, admission caps etc

3. Ask about golden weekends. For some people that is very important, others prefer 2 weekend and 2 weekdays off per ward month. Regardless of your preference you should ask so you know what you are getting into.

4. There was a consensus among the residents that by your third interview you will walk into a program and by the first 3 minutes in the hospital you will either say "Oh my god yes this is where i want to be" or "I could never see myself here" They really stressed going on your gut instinct and ignoring the rankings (within reason of course. They basically said go to any first tier program where you get that feeling when you walk in the door)

I know there were more but thats all I can remember off the top of my head. They also gave tons of advice on what to do/not to do on interviews. They told some of their stories of the worst interviews they have had. Good lord, some people just can't hide the crazy even for 10 minutes when it counts. Throw out questions in regards to the interview stuff and I will see if it jogs my memory on any advice they gave

 

[Powder]

If you have not been happy since nursery school ... maybe you should consider another profession?

 

[AceRockolla]

So my home pediatrics program had a dinner night for all the 4th year students applying to peds prior to all the madness starting and they had anonymous question/answer with the program director and many residents on interviewing, what to do, things to look for etc. Some of the pearls that I took away and that the program director stressed:

1. On the interview day most of the experience should be you involved with the residents somehow. Basically the program director will give their song and dance number and maybe something from the head of the hospital, but other than that it should be mostly resident focused. He said that if outside of those 2 areas the rest of the day isn't primarily spent with residents, then they are hiding them from you for a reason and something is fishy.

2. Ask about average number of admits, admission caps etc

3. Ask about golden weekends. For some people that is very important, others prefer 2 weekend and 2 weekdays off per ward month. Regardless of your preference you should ask so you know what you are getting into.

4. There was a consensus among the residents that by your third interview you will walk into a program and by the first 3 minutes in the hospital you will either say "Oh my god yes this is where i want to be" or "I could never see myself here" They really stressed going on your gut instinct and ignoring the rankings (within reason of course. They basically said go to any first tier program where you get that feeling when you walk in the door)

I know there were more but thats all I can remember off the top of my head. They also gave tons of advice on what to do/not to do on interviews. They told some of their stories of the worst interviews they have had. Good lord, some people just can't hide the crazy even for 10 minutes when it counts. Throw out questions in regards to the interview stuff and I will see if it jogs my memory on any advice they gave

I think BiGRed hit the nail on the head. All of the above questions are great. I would stress the importance of meeting as many residents as posssible - and deciding if you like them, i.e. "do I see myself fitting in with this group?"

When it comes down to it, most large, respected programs are going to give you about the same clinical experience. Where they do vary is in who their residents are and what their residents are like. If you really enjoy being around the residents on interview day, chances are you will enjoy being around them for 3 years of residency. Just some extra food for thought

 

[gottahaveit06]

1) Location---not only will you be happy in the city, but do you have any support (family/friends) in the area? Will you easily adjust to the cost of living in this new city and the quality of life that goes along with it?

2) Call schedule--How many months are call-free, esp call- free elective time? Is there nightfloat? Q4-Q5 every month may not seem like a big deal now but do it for three years and you'll be miserable.

3) Resident retention rate--How many residents leave the program each year? How many people have had to extend their residency?

4)Did you like the residents you met? Did the residents even show up to the meet and greet?

 

[bks524]

Also a thought about pass rates. That is a great point. They average that number over 3 years, but they also exclude all FMGs and retakers so understand that it may not include every resident. However, if you are a MD from USA then it would include you. Also understand that one bad year can really set you back. Ask the program director for the last 2 years or so-what are the percentages. They should know this!
It happened at my program. One year, a fare number failed-Don't know why. The next year was a smarter class and everyone passed. My year everyone passed. But the pass rate was low, because of that one year.

 

[coldflare]

1. Try to meet the third year resident(s) who will be the chief resident next year. Ask them what they like about the program, and what (if anything) they hope to change - there must be something keeping them there for another year.

2. It's great if you like the third-year residents when you interview, but keep in mind that they will all be gone when you start. Try to meet as many of the second-year residents as you can. They will be your senior residents, and you will be working with them more than any of the others. If they are lazy and selfish, then your intern year will be reaallly hard. (This is not coming from personal experience, by the way - my seniors this year are fantastic.)

 

[doctorE2010]

How do you evaluate programs before interviewing? I'm only a MSII but would like to start to get an idea of what's available. Are there any resources out there for evaluating programs? Specifically their competitiveness?

 

[DarthNeurology]

So my home pediatrics program had a dinner night for all the 4th year students applying to peds prior to all the madness starting and they had anonymous question/answer with the program director and many residents on interviewing, what to do, things to look for etc. Some of the pearls that I took away and that the program director stressed:

1. On the interview day most of the experience should be you involved with the residents somehow. Basically the program director will give their song and dance number and maybe something from the head of the hospital, but other than that it should be mostly resident focused. He said that if outside of those 2 areas the rest of the day isn't primarily spent with residents, then they are hiding them from you for a reason and something is fishy.

Talk about a paranoid generalization! Most interviewees told me that the interview day consists at some places of 1. General presentation by PD/head of hospital etc . . . 2. Interview with 2 or so faculty and 3. lunch/tour with residents. I would be most interested in spending a day in the clinic with the attendings or on the wards to see what the actual work environment is for myself, and to see how good the attendings are with teaching and clinical work. I would expect residents to be a little tired as they are working, we have all seen residents complain about how "crappy" their lives are and that the hospital is a giant monsters that eats their personal/social lives, but then the next day they are getting excited about doing some procedure on a patient . . . so I think how the residents present themselves varies from one day to the next. I wouldn't listen to a PD telling me how to evaluate their and all other residency programs based on how much the residents are let out of their cage to mingle with students. It seems pediatric fellowships are getting more competitive, so it probably would help to go to a place that puts a lot of residents into fellowships versus one that does not if your interested in that.