How best to use my last 2 post-bac semesters

[MrDrexler]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I am trying to figure out the best approach to take these next 2 semesters. I began a postbac last fall, and I decided that since I would need nearly two years to complete the program, I would take a robust course load with a fair helping of electives beyond the primary 4 prerequisites. So far that has gone according to plan, and I have completed the following:

Fall 2011
Bio 1
Chem 1
Scientific Writing for Healthcare
Calculus

Spring 2012
Bio 2
Chem 2
Human Neuroanatomy

Summer 2012
Organic Chem 1&2

I know that many people use their postbac time to get some clinical experience, but I already spent a year (1700 hours, to be exact) before this program as an Americorps Community HealthCorps member, and most of that was direct patient experience. I've also spent a fair amount of time shadowing surgeons and volunteering at migrant farm worker clinics in the recent pre-postbac past. Therefore I'm wondering if it's really necessary to be working in a hospital or something, rather than taking an extra elective. I'm signed up for physics, cell bio, neurochemistry, and biostat this upcoming semester (13 credits), which seems like a very full load. Should I drop a course and find some lab work? More direct patient experience? It's tough to figure out the right move here!

 

[chayo234]

Extra electives don't help imo. I would cut down to the bare-bone essentials to either give plenty of time to ace the core classes; or if you have time, put in some time into something that is meaningful and important to you that is pertinent to medicine.

 

[MrDrexler]

Frankly I think the issue is that I don't want to be bored, and I'd be much more stimulated and ultimately better served by an upper level life-science course than by being the new guy in the lab that gets to do basic inconsequential stuff, or by being a hospital volunteer. This is not to say that these aren't valuable positions, but given my past experiences, I think until I'm actually in med school, there likely isn't nearly as much for me to learn from those situations as there is in a tough course like neurochem. But then again, I don't know what carries more weight in the application process: success in upper level science electives or the mere willingness to throw oneself into the mix again as a volunteer or lab assistant, regardless of the degree of difficulty?

Just curious, why don't you think electives are of value?

 

[chayo234]

I never said they were not of value but read the way I phrased it. If the elective is going to damage your core elective grade, then it's bad. If the elective is taken in place of a meaningful medical experience, it's bad. You should participate in something that is MEANINGFUL to you. Something you feel that you will get the maximum benefit from. If that is an interest in an upper level science course, that works. However, it will be hard to prove that you took the class out of great interest to admission committees compared to a semester's research project or some kind of clinical volunteering. Many people choose volunteering/lab assistant because of letters of recommendations. If you can compound a core class with having a research project with the same professor that teaches the class, that will give you a much better letter and look better to the admissions committee than compared to another upper level division course.

But once again, this isn't to say upper level division classes are not meaningful. Admissions committees look favorably to high intense course loads.

EDIT:

Blah, I should really read posts before posting lol. I see that you already took pre-reqs. Are you doing post-bacc as a GPA enhancer? If that is the major cause, then I would load on credits and take as many core science classes that you can handle. I hate to put it into this type of perspective but, if you can't handle 13 credits, then you aren't showing to admissions committees that you can handle medical school workload. How are those credits calculated btw? physics (3), cell phys (4), neurochem (3), biostat (3) ? I think biostat isn't considered a core science so I would drop that in favor of maybe biochem or something similar. Also are you taking lab with physics? That is important.

 

[johnnyscans]

Extra electives don't help imo. I would cut down to the bare-bone essentials to either give plenty of time to ace the core classes; or if you have time, put in some time into something that is meaningful and important to you that is pertinent to medicine.

False.

There is a statistically significant correlation between MS1 success and students who have taken biochemistry.

My friend who just finished summer gross anatomy said that she feels A&P in undergrad helped her big time.

 

[chayo234]

False.

There is a statistically significant correlation between MS1 success and students who have taken biochemistry.

My friend who just finished summer gross anatomy said that she feels A&P in undergrad helped her big time.

You just quoted a stat and didn't give a source but referenced an advice from an MS1 student....

I'm sure you have also heard that people say enjoy and don't waste your precious summer before starting MS1 because nothing you can do can prepare you for the rigorous course workload. Advice is advice, it means different things for different people.

 

[MrDrexler]

I never said they were not of value but read the way I phrased it. If the elective is going to damage your core elective grade, then it's bad. If the elective is taken in place of a meaningful medical experience, it's bad.

I have a 4.0 in the postbac (and a 3.75 undergrad) and I think I'll be able to maintain it regardless of the course load. I have a lot of pre-postbac meaningful medical experiences thus far, or at least it feels that way to me. Aside from this past year, I don't have any academic science experience since high school. Nor do I have any formal lab experience.

My honest suggestion would be that, if you can, mirror your post-bacc to simulate one of the premier post-bacc courses from Bryn Mawr or Goucher. At least that is what I would do if I were taking pre-reqs.

This is already out of the question. They tend to get it all done in one year in those programs, which wasn't an option for me since I had to start in the fall. I'd rather set myself apart from that crowd, anyway. Premier or not, 90% of the postbacs from my program get into med school.

 

[MrDrexler]

I think biostat isn't considered a core science so I would drop that in favor of maybe biochem or something similar. Also are you taking lab with physics? That is important.

Biostat is accepted in lieu of a second semester of calculus by many schools that have a math requirement. Cell bio is extremely helpful for both the MCAT and first year of med school, and combined with neurochem I think am am covering a fair amount of biochem territory. I'm taking Physics for Engineers, which is a bit tougher than standard physics, and yes, it has a lab. Not all 13 credit semesters were created equal...

Edit: physics is 4 credits, the rest are 3

 

[chayo234]

I have a 4.0 in the postbac (and a 3.75 undergrad) and I think I'll be able to maintain it regardless of the course load. I have a lot of pre-postbac meaningful medical experiences thus far, or at least it feels that way to me. Aside from this past year, I don't have any academic science experience since high school. Nor do I have any formal lab experience.



This is already out of the question. They tend to get it all done in one year in those programs, which wasn't an option for me since I had to start in the fall. I'd rather set myself apart from that crowd, anyway. Premier or not, 90% of the postbacs from my program get into med school.

I edited the later portions of my last-post, made a mistake of assuming a few things from seeing a list of classes. I only assumed you were struggling with the course load since you mentioned 13 credits seemed to push yourself. I don't see why you would care if you have a 4.0 currently. If you can push yourself to do more, I would go with that logic. If you can get solid letters of recommendations, then I would not worry about extra-cirriculars since you seem to have that already covered.

Also, if you are in a post-bacc program, why not ask the advisor? If 90%+ get in, that seems like a much better source to rely on than a forum =/

 

[johnnyscans]

You just quoted a stat and didn't give a source but referenced an advice from an MS1 student....

I'm sure you have also heard that people say enjoy and don't waste your precious summer before starting MS1 because nothing you can do can prepare you for the rigorous course workload. Advice is advice, it means different things for different people.

And your point is?

Study was shown to me by my advisor; it's part of the reason why he recommends all pre-meds take biochem.

Agree with you on advice being advice.

 

[chayo234]

Biostat is accepted in lieu of a second semester of calculus by many schools that have a math requirement. Cell bio is extremely helpful for both the MCAT and first year of med school, and combined with neurochem I think am am covering a fair amount of biochem territory. I'm taking Physics for Engineers, which is a bit tougher than standard physics, and yes, it has a lab. Not all 13 credit semesters were created equal...

Edit: physics is 4 credits, the rest are 3

I'm confused, are you saying biostat can be part of the 1 year req for calculus for pre-reqs? That's interesting, I didn't know that.

Also, i'm confused on which courses you selected are elective. They all seem to be core science courses with the only possible non-elective is physics I am guessing? With 12 credits being the minimum to be considered a full time student, you are already at the bare credit load.

The problem with not all semesters being created equal idea is that will the admissions committee see that?

 

[MrDrexler]

Everything in a postbac that is not bio, chem, ochem, or physics I would consider an elective. I would assume that adcoms can identify tough upper level science courses, and would compare students taking them favorably to those just taking the bare necessities. Why not?

The advising situation here isn't the greatest, so I want to gather info from multiple sources. There is no requirement to be a "full-time" student as a postbac by undergrad standards, and most of the people in my program here take between 8-14 credits per semester depending on their work/extra-curricular load. Maybe I'm not the most competent and capable applicant out there, but taking 4 upper-level science courses at once doesn't sounds like a full plate?

Harvard just implemented this update to their prereqs, and a few other schools have done the same:

Computational skills are required for contemporary scientific literacy. Although the calculus of derivatives and integration represents important concepts for the precise, quantifiable understanding of dynamic physiological processes and systems, a full year of calculus focusing on the derivation of biologically low-relevance theorems is less important than mastery of more relevant algebraic and trigonometric quantitative skills. Still, to prepare adequately for the quantitative reasoning demands of the contemporary medical curriculum and certain medical specialties, to provide analytic perspective and to appreciate the uncertainties in evaluation of biological systems, students are required to have familiarity with calculus. A broader and more flexible range of requirements is encouraged, however, and, given the importance of statistics for understanding the literature of science and medicine, adequate grounding in statistics is required. Rather than increasing the one year devoted to mathematics preparation, the one-year effort should be more relevant to biology and medicine than the formerly required, traditional, one-year calculus course. Flexibility will be welcome in meeting these requirements (e.g., a semester course in calculus that covers derivatives and integration and a semester course in statistics; a calculus-based physics course and another science course that includes a firm grounding in biostatistics; or, preferably, a unified two-semester course that covers important, biologically relevant concepts in calculus and statistics).

 

[chayo234]

Everything in a postbac that is not bio, chem, ochem, or physics I would consider an elective. I would assume that adcoms can identify tough upper level science courses, and would compare students taking them favorably to those just taking the bare necessities. Why not?

The advising situation here isn't the greatest, so I want to gather info from multiple sources. There is no requirement to be a "full-time" student as a postbac by undergrad standards, and most of the people in my program here take between 8-14 credits per semester depending on their work/extra-curricular load. Maybe I'm not the most competent and capable applicant out there, but taking 4 upper-level science courses at once doesn't sounds like a full plate?

Harvard just implemented this update to their prereqs, and a few other schools have done the same:

Yeah, it's a peculiar situation from the students that I have known to use post-baccs. Since they either use upper level science courses as GPA boosters or they don't have their pre-reqs and use 1 year accelerated program to finish them off.

As you have mentioned, if your GPA is through the roof, I would find something that would set you apart from the other competitors more than just upper level division classes. I think you have already proven you can do the course workload. Or possibly even prepare yourselves for the MCAT? Although since you haven't taken physics, i'm not sure how feasible that is. I'm curious, what did your advisor recommend with this predicament?

I wouldn't consider physics or biostat to be upper level division course. That's like saying principles of chem (chem students only gen chem course) is an upper level division course compared to gen chem 101. Your load looks like 2 core classes + 2 upper level classes which is pretty standard. Then again.. I went to college that specifically prepared you for the sciences.. so I may be biased. Upper level science classes are considered to be 400+ level from the advisors/admissions members that I have talked to.

 

[johnnyscans]

Yeah, it's a peculiar situation from the students that I have known to use post-baccs. Since they either use upper level science courses as GPA boosters or they don't have their pre-reqs and use 1 year accelerated program to finish them off.

As you have mentioned, if your GPA is through the roof, I would find something that would set you apart from the other competitors more than just upper level division classes. I think you have already proven you can do the course workload. Or possibly even prepare yourselves for the MCAT? Although since you haven't taken physics, i'm not sure how feasible that is. I'm curious, what did your advisor recommend with this predicament?

I wouldn't consider physics or biostat to be upper level division course. That's like saying principles of chem (chem students only gen chem course) is an upper level division course compared to gen chem 101. Your load looks like 2 core classes + 2 upper level classes which is pretty standard. Then again.. I went to college that specifically prepared you for the sciences.. so I may be biased. Upper level science classes are considered to be 400+ level from the advisors/admissions members that I have talked to.

I've wondered this as well. In my opinion, upper-level is any course (sans Orgo) that requires at least 2 other courses be completed before you can enroll e.g. molecular biology, cellular biology, biochemistry (all of which require at least a year of general bio).

That's good advice though in regards to strengthening the overall application. A unique experience + a solid LOR can work wonders come application time.

 

[MrDrexler]

Yeah that's fair, I just meant that the courses were beyond the minimum scope of the post-bac curriculum, which most people seem to stick to. I know my neurochem professor has a lot of stuff going on in the lab, so maybe I'll see if I can work with her on some research directly rather than take the course.