How big a "hole" is no leadership?

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pfaction

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Throughout my entire college experience, no real leadership. I'm members of clubs since 2010, but no leadership. I have nothing to list for that, outside of "leading an experiment in ___ lab". I only have this semester to do something. How huge a hole will this create in my profile?
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Well think about it from an adcoms point of view....

Physicians are leaders of a medical team. Now, more than ever, a physician's role is to lead and manage other medical personnel (nurses, NP's, PA's, residents, med students, etc.).
 
flatearth22 said:
Well think about it from an adcoms point of view....

Physicians are leaders of a medical team. Now, more than ever, a physician's role is to lead and manage other medical personnel (nurses, NP's, PA's, residents, med students, etc.).
Click to expand...

Flatearth being serious 👍
 
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join a tutoring program. many consider it leadership. particularly if you tutor a group of people.

this way you don't have to find some way to ascend up the ranks of an organization really fast.
 
pfaction said:
Throughout my entire college experience, no real leadership. I'm members of clubs since 2010, but no leadership. I have nothing to list for that, outside of "leading an experiment in ___ lab". I only have this semester to do something. How huge a hole will this create in my profile?
Click to expand...

Not to big of a hole... Most pre-meds are on the committee of some dumb organization and they call that leadership.
 
I've tutored people and the professor of the subject knows (and has seen me tutoring). However, I was told here tutoring doesn't count.

As stated previously, I'd join a club to get into a leadership position but I have no time left.
 
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I hope it's not WAY too important. All I ever did (and most likely every will do) was founded a club at my old college (president of it), and I guess if you can count tutoring than I've been doing that as well.
 
Being a founder of a club obviously counts.

I mean, if I stretch my mind:

I "lead" the team to do medicine expires and throwbacks at a nursing home.
I am leading a lab experiment at school.

I've been told on SDN that tutoring doesn't count, if it does, I have 100+ hours with teacher verification.

/end
 
Be a Shepard not a sheep.
images
 
Having no leadership exp is like having no research but to a lesser extent I would think. The MSAR lists the amount of students involved in research and communities service but doesn't mention leadership experience specifically. So I guess it is one desirable quality but if you have something else to offer then I can't see how the lack of leadership going to break you. Even people lacking research exp get in every year.
 
Physician's are leaders. I think it would be wise to show that you too can be a leader.

From what I have observed within my circle of friends, those who have legit leadership experience got into med school on their first try.
 
:\ I don't know if I can do this due to semester reasons. I would obviously if I could...but we can't go into the past. I have the service, I have more than enough research, but missing the "leadership".
 
pfaction said:
:\ I don't know if I can do this due to semester reasons. I would obviously if I could...but we can't go into the past. I have the service, I have more than enough research, but missing the "leadership".
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Start a club? Tutoring? I would think even a job could be counted as leadership.
 
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Starting a club may be very hard to do.
Tutoring - I HAVE 100+ HOURS. A teacher can easily verify this.
I have a job right now in a healthcare field.
 
Maybe you could join a program like Big Brothers Big Sisters, unless that would only count as community service and not leadership...
 
MrBananaGrabber said:
Maybe you could join a program like Big Brothers Big Sisters, unless that would only count as community service and not leadership...
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Leadership is commonly interpreted as being a leader among your peers. Many people still look favorably on stuff like TA'ing, tutoring, big bro big sis, etc because it can require good organizational skills and working/motivating people. However who knows if all adcoms are willing to consider this "leadership".
 
chronicidal said:
join a tutoring program. many consider it leadership. particularly if you tutor a group of people.

this way you don't have to find some way to ascend up the ranks of an organization really fast.
Click to expand...

TA'ing, personal tutoring, teaching a sibling to ride a bike, teaching your boyfriend to swim, leading a WoW raid?

No seriously I put that down as an EC... 🙄

Some schools give individual adcom members latitude to grade applications on a scale. Of course, "leadership" might be one of these, but how would you know exactly how each of those adcom member think?

Starting a club is not very hard to do. Here's an idea: Scientific journal club. Meet once a week to spend 30 min discussing new scientific articles and the next 30 min to investigate possible new research topics for your lab projects. Recruit 6 other different pre-meds and appoint them all executive positions. Voila.
 
Feed the squirrels in your backyard everday until they've come to expect food and begin to bring all their squirrel friends along. Gradually train them to come closer and closer to you for feedings. Eventually you should place food on your coat sleaves and other places around your body until you are covered in squirrels. Maybe you can convince some of the smarter squirrels to do tricks for you ............... bam now you're a squirrel king and the squirrel king is a LEADER.
Or you could do the lame thing and do some tutoring. You might also consider organizing some sort of charity event. I did this and it's actually not all that difficult if you're an outgoing sort of person that's comfortable networking.
 
Narmerguy said:
Leadership is commonly interpreted as being a leader among your peers. Many people still look favorably on stuff like TA'ing, tutoring, big bro big sis, etc because it can require good organizational skills and working/motivating people. However who knows if all adcoms are willing to consider this "leadership".
Click to expand...

I agree, I had a feeling they might not consider it "leadership" since it isn't among your peers.

PS: post 3000! 👍 Narmerguy!
 
I wouldn't say every med student is leadership material. There are quite a few people who thrive on simply following others. But, it's more of a personality thing. Some people are BORN leaders and some are BORN to be led. Then again, there are docs who are independent.
 
KnuxNole said:
I wouldn't say every med student is leadership material. There are quite a few people who thrive on simply following others. But, it's more of a personality thing. Some people are BORN leaders and some are BORN to be led. Then again, there are docs who are independent.
Click to expand...

I would agree, but regarding admission to medical school, leadership is one of those checkbox things you should have, in some form.
 
Anything can be a leadership experience with the right wording 🙂
 
Leadership can appear in many forms. Before post bac pre-med I was an Econ major and an intern at a wealth management firm. There were a group of interns and we were assigned projects. It was the perfect time to "take the lead" and direct my team to produce great ideas.

Leadership opportunities appear daily...you just have to recognize them.

That sounded like a fortune cookie.
 
This has absolutely nothing to do with the post itself, but every time I have read this thread title, I read to myself "a-hole." lol.
 
Morsetlis said:
Starting a club is not very hard to do. Here's an idea: Scientific journal club. Meet once a week to spend 30 min discussing new scientific articles and the next 30 min to investigate possible new research topics for your lab projects. Recruit 6 other different pre-meds and appoint them all executive positions. Voila.
Click to expand...

I can actually do this since I kind of did it last semester with my PI. Granted I was eating pizza a lot, I DID submit an article for discussion! I'll discuss it with the professor leading the journal club! 👍👍

I mean, I was also "assigned" leadership for a mandated journal club - oversaw presentation, final edits, responsibility for submission to professor...would this even count? It was a major article on HIV therapy, for a class. I oversaw 5 peers.
 
Wait, isn't that "scientific journal club" off the record? Wouldn't it better to have an actual on-the-record established club to be a leader of? Sure, I could have the teacher say that we submitted articles and held meetings but...
 
not that important,remember to ONLY do things you like in college. Most ECs in college is a complete waste of time if you are not into it. You will probably not gonna get any leadership if you are not popular enough and people dont vote for ya (in that case, you gonna have to take on a officer spot that nobody want: usually the one that have to do the most work). I knew people who are Vice president/president of club ABC, who I can attest in court, done absolutely nothing beside showing up to meeting like a regular member, making the occasional phone call and sending emails...Others, holding secretaries job, having to deal with lots of paperworks; while getting less recognitions. Founding a club can be easy or hard depending on ur college, at mine, ur club would need to be "recognized" by the board to get any value. As you can see, this bear little resemblane to what kind of leadership you will need as a doctor. Focus on things that matter more, such as GPA and MCAT, get to know ur prof to get good LOR, these are thigns that matter.
 
MrBananaGrabber said:
I agree, I had a feeling they might not consider it "leadership" since it isn't among your peers.

PS: post 3000! 👍 Narmerguy!
Click to expand...

Thanks man I didn't notice that until you told me 🙂

Sadly, in my effort to thank you...I've lost it. 🙁
 
arfc6 said:
Feed the squirrels in your backyard everday until they've come to expect food and begin to bring all their squirrel friends along. Gradually train them to come closer and closer to you for feedings. Eventually you should place food on your coat sleaves and other places around your body until you are covered in squirrels. Maybe you can convince some of the smarter squirrels to do tricks for you ............... bam now you're a squirrel king and the squirrel king is a LEADER.
Or you could do the lame thing and do some tutoring. You might also consider organizing some sort of charity event. I did this and it's actually not all that difficult if you're an outgoing sort of person that's comfortable networking.
Click to expand...

Can't believe no one else even acknowledged this. I lol'ed haha.
 
When I wonder if not having something will be a "hole" I consider how many people I will competing with who don't have that particular "hole". That being said, I know MANY MANY premeds with exceptional leadership and not just committee.

Basically when they compare you to a guy who has the same stats and was Student Body President of his school or founded a group that raised funds and built a school in Africa....well then your ship is sunk.

Unfortunately, unlike research, leadership isn't something you can attain within a year IMO. Anything under a year will be grunt work because I seriously doubt the possibility of rising up from entry level to president/vice-president or a group.
 
Would RA'ing be considered leadership since you have to plan activities, counsel other students,etc
 
Morsetlis said:
TA'ing, personal tutoring, teaching a sibling to ride a bike, teaching your boyfriend to swim, leading a WoW raid?

No seriously I put that down as an EC... 🙄

Some schools give individual adcom members latitude to grade applications on a scale. Of course, "leadership" might be one of these, but how would you know exactly how each of those adcom member think?

Starting a club is not very hard to do. Here's an idea: Scientific journal club. Meet once a week to spend 30 min discussing new scientific articles and the next 30 min to investigate possible new research topics for your lab projects. Recruit 6 other different pre-meds and appoint them all executive positions. Voila.
Click to expand...

Great point. Do med schools not realize that students just go around jumping through hoops like crazy JUST to get it? I think EC's are over rated. An EC doesn't really tell you something about a person's character if that person is just involved in the EC to build his/her resume (other than the desire to get into med school, which I suppose is pretty important).

Half of the things in my life that I am really proud of, things that I think legitimately qualify me to be a good doctor, I can't put on my resume because they don't "sound" good. So instead I'll be filling my resume up with meaningless crap that "sounds" good but doesn't actually mean anything. I will play the game.
 
tn4596 said:
not that important,remember to ONLY do things you like in college. Most ECs in college is a complete waste of time if you are not into it. You will probably not gonna get any leadership if you are not popular enough and people dont vote for ya (in that case, you gonna have to take on a officer spot that nobody want: usually the one that have to do the most work). I knew people who are Vice president/president of club ABC, who I can attest in court, done absolutely nothing beside showing up to meeting like a regular member, making the occasional phone call and sending emails...Others, holding secretaries job, having to deal with lots of paperworks; while getting less recognitions. Founding a club can be easy or hard depending on ur college, at mine, ur club would need to be "recognized" by the board to get any value. As you can see, this bear little resemblane to what kind of leadership you will need as a doctor. Focus on things that matter more, such as GPA and MCAT, get to know ur prof to get good LOR, these are thigns that matter.
Click to expand...

Most EC's are a complete waste of time.

A pattern of related, committed EC's can show dedication.

Example: I want to go into emed, so on top of 4th year elective rotations in emed, I would also choose dive rescue, ACLS, pediatric life support, ITLS, and tropical medicine selective courses during my basic science years.

The Integrative Medicine selective I'm doing that has lectures and workshops in Yoga, Karate, Chiropractry, Soul Retrieval, and Acupuncture? It's fun, but not really useful.

Joining the MPH, PHR, AMSA, and other random service-related societies that do volunteer projects? That could show a commitment to public health.

Joining the Large Animal Society, the Neuroscience Club, and Women in Medicine (as a guy)? Not so useful. But hey I got t-shirts.
 
KnuxNole said:
I wouldn't say every med student is leadership material. There are quite a few people who thrive on simply following others. But, it's more of a personality thing. Some people are BORN leaders and some are BORN to be led. Then again, there are docs who are independent.
Click to expand...
yah, i don't really feel like i'm leadership material or a follower. i just like cooperating in groups.
 
pfaction said:
Throughout my entire college experience, no real leadership. I'm members of clubs since 2010, but no leadership. I have nothing to list for that, outside of "leading an experiment in ___ lab". I only have this semester to do something. How huge a hole will this create in my profile?
Click to expand...

I got a job as a science tutor/TA at a community college. I help students with their bio, chem, or physics homework, and I also do test review lectures that are very well attended. I originally got the job just to fill in the "leader/mentor" blank on my application, but I really enjoy helping the students reach their educational goals. I'm actually starting my third semester there next week 🙂

Anyone who thinks this doesn't "count" as leadership has never had to prepare a coherent 2-hour lesson plan and stare down a room full of 50 confused and panicking students who have their exam in 24 hours, and are looking to you to help them pass it.
 
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Morsetlis said:
Most EC's are a complete waste of time.

A pattern of related, committed EC's can show dedication.

Example: I want to go into emed, so on top of 4th year elective rotations in emed, I would also choose dive rescue, ACLS, pediatric life support, ITLS, and tropical medicine selective courses during my basic science years.

The Integrative Medicine selective I'm doing that has lectures and workshops in Yoga, Karate, Chiropractry, Soul Retrieval, and Acupuncture? It's fun, but not really useful.

Joining the MPH, PHR, AMSA, and other random service-related societies that do volunteer projects? That could show a commitment to public health.

Joining the Large Animal Society, the Neuroscience Club, and Women in Medicine (as a guy)? Not so useful. But hey I got t-shirts.
Click to expand...

This is the most important yet oft overlooked point.
 
artsciencelove said:
I got a job as a science tutor/TA at a community college. I help students with their bio, chem, or physics homework, and I also do test review lectures that are very well attended. I originally got the job just to fill in the "leader/mentor" blank on my application, but I really enjoy helping the students reach their educational goals. I'm actually starting my third semester there next week 🙂

Anyone who thinks this doesn't "count" as leadership has never had to prepare a coherent 2-hour lesson plan and stare down a room full of 50 confused and panicking students who have their exam in 24 hours, and are looking to you to help them pass it.
Click to expand...

I don't think this counts as leadership...and I HAVE done just this...many times. It's TOTALLY different from "leadership" experiences. What you're describing is teaching, not leadership. Just sayin' 😉
 
Ask to take up a position, or make up your own position in the clubs you are in. Leadership is pretty important.
 
pfaction said:
I wouldn't want to "make up my own position"...it seems illegitimate.
Click to expand...

make your own group... and make it actually do stuff 😉

Then you can have the much coveted Founder and President title.

actually that is bad advice unless you are really passionate about something and have the time/motivation to get something off the ground
 
pfaction said:
I wouldn't want to "make up my own position"...it seems illegitimate.
Click to expand...

Not illegit at all. The fact is someone has to start the group. That said, it takes a lot of time to get something started. You can't expect something like this to be easy. For me, leadership was something that developed over time. My early "leadership" experiences were things like tutoring (it does teach you things about leadership although it is not leadership in itself) and leading worship at church (in other words, things that basically involved working with others, being an example, etc.). I then began teaching and leading small groups of people and rose to positions supervising people who led others. I now train volunteers at my volunteer site, have been a supervisor at work, and, most recently, have been rebuilding our entire pre-med program with a team of about 15 students under my lead and a program budget of about $10k under my direction. My experience is that leadership is gradual. You cannot expect it to suddenly happen. It must be developed and nurtured over time.
 
I have the passion and motivation, but not the time. Hopefully I'll be doing "leadership" stuff elsewhere.
 
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