How can anyone say NO to YALE?

[ren19]

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I know questions like this have been asked already, but I really need help deciding which school to attend. Here are the schools I am choosing between:

- Yale (Enviro Health)
- Columbia (Enviro Health)
- Emory (EOH)

So, here's what I'm thinking:
- I may be getting a scholarship at Emory. I'm a scholarship finalist and should find out by end of next week if I'm getting any $$$. I'm an international student so any money will help.
- Yale is Yale! Everyone asks me how I can say NO to Yale but I don’t want to base my decision just on a school’s name! Yale is great but their research matches mine only somewhat…but profs/students in the program, whom I have spoken to, say that the program is very flexible and that I can tailor it to my interests…
- Columbia’s program is a great match with what I want to do. And I’d love to live in NYC! But it’d be so expensive!

Right now I think I will choose Emory if they offer me a scholarship. If not, I’ll decide btwn Yale and Columbia.

Is there anyone out there who chose another school over Yale?

Advice anyone?

 

[jasmine2018]

I and many, many people in the field would choose Emory in a split second over Yale, ESPECIALLY if Emory is giving you money!! There really is no contest there. Yale is good in certain areas, but honestly, after working in public health for many years now, Yale is not very highly regarded, and esp if your research doesn't gel with theirs, I'm not really sure why you would even consider choosing them. Emory and Columbia's programs are ranked much higher than Yale's, but again, at the MPH level, you should be considering research compatability and scholarship in your decision.

 

[Jack Daniel]

I agree with Jasmine's post. Of course, Yale has national name recognition, but many don't perceive the public health program, in general, to be as strong as other Yale programs. As you probably know, state programs like Michigan and Chapel Hill rank much higher. I have no idea, however, how the Yale program compares in the area of environmental health. Maybe that area is much stronger.

Emory has the benefit of close CDC collaboration--not a bad thing in the world of public health.

Are you are planning on trying to stay in the States after graduation or returning home? Which program would best prepare you back home? Maybe Yale would open more doors for you in that way...

Best of luck--it seems like a wonderful position to be in--a choice among 3 top programs!

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Don't forget, New Haven isn't exactly the most fabulous place to live.

 

[AndrewJ42]

yeah New Haven isn't the best place in the world...

but onto the academic aspects...

As everyone's already said...Yale isn't very highly regarded in the field of Public Health. The reason that state schools like Michigan, UNC and Washington are among the top 5 has to do with research output and their ability to hold onto some of the top researchers in the field...mostly due to money. Harvard, Hopkins, UNC, UW and UMich are able to garnish these high rankings due to the large amount of funding they receive from the NIH/CDC/NSF etc...Yale hasn't been able to gain that type of funding to conduct research at such a high level.

That being said, it's not as if you won't get a great education at Yale. But, if you see yourself going into research, I'd seriously choose Emory as it does have the CDC connection and will create connections that will help propel you in your career.

 

[bobdogsam43]

public health peeps can turn down Yale just as easily as engineering peeps can........just cuz it's Ivy doesn't mean it's very strong

 

[ren19]

thanks everyone! this is all very helpful!

 

[astroshot]

Yale would be good if you want to ultimately find something outside of Public Health as the name could be key. I was in the same situation, but after going to visit new haven and talking to people in the field, I'm trying now to choose between mich and emory.

 

[jules922]

The only people who would choose Yale over Columbia and Emory are people who don't know anything about public health. Yale's program is not very strong and has been actually dropping in the rankings.
I graduated from Columbia and enjoyed it - the EHS dept. is great if you're interested in climate change, urban health issues, the built environment and pesticide exposures. EHS also does a lot of work with Jeff Sachs' Earth Institute on the CU main campus, which is quite fabulous. Don't know much about Emory - I got in, but as a native NYer didn't like Atlanta.

 

[Erica]

.

 

[jules922]

Hm. That is a pretty slanderous statement to make on a forum like this, more like judgment than advice. I for one am probably choosing Yale over Emory, and believe I know a good deal about public health. The fact that you "don't know much about Emory" but easily prioritize it over Yale makes me think you either have a personal vendetta... or "don't know much" about people making personal and complex decisions.

I was accepted to the MPH programs at Yale, Harvard, Michigan, Columbia, UNC, Emory, BU and UIC - and I either visited or talked to students/faculty at every school. My impressions and opinions of the top public health programs are certainly not uninformed. If one is going to base a decision on reputation and strength of program, everyone I talked to who is working in public health would suggest Columbia or Emory over Yale, including many of the Yale students I spoke with. This has been confirmed by people I've worked with at the CDC and Indian Health Service as well.
Of course a huge part of the grad school decision is if your research and career interests "fit" well with the school's strengths, so perhaps Yale is a better choice for some people. Yale is certainly not a bad program, but since the OP is interested in environmental health, my opinion is that Emory and Columbia would be better choices.

 

[sheepunite]

The only people who would choose Yale over Columbia and Emory are people who don't know anything about public health. Yale's program is not very strong and has been actually dropping in the rankings.
I graduated from Columbia and enjoyed it - the EHS dept. is great if you're interested in climate change, urban health issues, the built environment and pesticide exposures. EHS also does a lot of work with Jeff Sachs' Earth Institute on the CU main campus, which is quite fabulous. Don't know much about Emory - I got in, but as a native NYer didn't like Atlanta.

i'd strongly second this, having recently come out of michigan's program (EHS/HBHE and global health). definitely go for emory or mailman.

 

[Erica]

i'd strongly second this, having recently come out of michigan's program (EHS/HBHE and global health). definitely go for emory or mailman.

😕 Why? I just don't understand. Many of you are saying this, but nobody gives any reasons except maybe rankings or New Haven isn't a fun city.

 

[jules922]

😕 Why? I just don't understand. Many of you are saying this, but nobody gives any reasons except maybe rankings or New Haven isn't a fun city.

A few reasons:
-Research done and quality/reputation of faculty members
-Connections to the public health workforce (i.e. Emory has a lot with CDC, Columbia has a lot with the UN and WHO)
-Location (not in the sense of whether it's fun to live there, but what public health opportunities/institutions are located there where you could make connections/intern/get jobs)
-Strength and diversity (of interests/backgrounds/etc.) of the student body

 

[jasmine2018]

I'll chime in as well....😉

In the public health arena, the training obtained at Yale is not as thorough or as strong as it would be at some of the other programs. These are opinions of actual graduates of Yale's program who had done all they could to steer me away from even applying, but it's also the opinion of many of Yale's own faculty who have, off the record, mentioned I'd be doing myself a favor by going elsewhere. Funding/grants at Yale have been cut sharply (partly explaining Yale's downward slide in rankings) which has hurt the research programs there, and has led to the flight of good faculty.

This all being said, I don't think you're committing public health career suicide by going to Yale, but it's more that if you can get admitted to higher quality programs like Emory, Columbia, Michigan, Harvard, etc, then it doesn't seem to make sense why one would choose Yale (unless you are very focused on working with a particlar faculty person at Yale). I received my MPH a number of years back (am moving on to a PhD) and have worked at the CDC, WHO, and other research institutions and I can tell you that a degree from Yale won't exactly help your cause - Yale's faults are well-known in the public health arena.

In summary, if you can go somewhere better (though most ESP if you've gotten $), then do so. My two cents.....

 

[southerndoc]

Yale's decrease in funding is not a result of a drop in rankings. The rankings base a lot of their methodology on funding. So a drop in funding causes a drop in rankings, but it is hard to prove that a drop in rankings causes a drop in funding. NIH investigators do not look at rankings to determine who gets a grant.

Secondly, as a physician at Yale, I can tell you that the medical community here is under a lot of scrutiny for grants. We have new rules in place for who gets enrolled into research programs. Without knowing all the details, I will refrain from commenting much about it. However, this may have a negative impact on future funding by federal grant programs such as the NIH. I do not know if this scrutiny applies to the public health programs, but since the medical and public health communities at Yale work so tightly together, one can assume the same amount of scrutiny is happening to public health research.

Contrary to what many people say, I do not find New Haven to be a difficult city to live in. There are plenty of things to do here, and a ton of great restaurants. Crime is relatively low compared to most major cities, and is certainly lower than where I am from (where we saw several shootings daily).

 

[sheepunite]

erica, what are your reasons for wanting to attend yale? (besides its ivy league status.)

 

[Erica]

.

 

[sheepunite]

getting an MPH from yale is like getting an MFA in creative writing from harvard (when iowa would be the obvious choice). both brilliant schools, obviously, but some schools with lesser cache (highly arguable, since mailman's top-form, and columbia, in general, could offer most everything you enumerated about yale) are better for various graduate programs.

i wish you the best in your decision-making, but it's curious that you seem to be basing your decision on the broad lustre of yale's name, with little reference to specific features of the MPH program, itself.

 

[MPHopeful]

Erica,

The best program is the program that's best for YOU, not rankings, not prestige.

If you made an honest comparison of the schools where you were offered admission and Yale came out on top then that's all that matters.

Don't let any 'know-it-all' try to make you feel badly about your decision.

There are alot of people out there who would envy your educational opportunity.

Enjoy your time at Yale!

 

[namazu]

Erica,
The best program is the program that's best for YOU, not rankings, not prestige.
If you made an honest comparison of the schools where you were offered admission and Yale came out on top then that's all that matters.
Don't let any 'know-it-all' try to make you feel badly about your decision.
There are alot of people out there who would envy your educational opportunity.
Enjoy your time at Yale!

I second what MPHopeful said.

 

[sheepunite]

Erica,

The best program is the program that's best for YOU, not rankings, not prestige.

If you made an honest comparison of the schools where you were offered admission and Yale came out on top then that's all that matters.

Don't let any 'know-it-all' try to make you feel badly about your decision.

There are alot of people out there who would envy your educational opportunity.

Enjoy your time at Yale!

erm, i'd re-direct you to the title of this thread. "how could one turn down an MPH at yale?" is the matter on the table. she'll be fine wherever she goes, but the question was whether, faced with other options, turning down yale could be a viable decision. and, yes, it definitely could be.

 

[MPHopeful]

erm, i'd re-direct you to the title of this thread. "how could one turn down an MPH at yale?" is the matter on the table. she'll be fine wherever she goes, but the question was whether, faced with other options, turning down yale could be a viable decision. and, yes, it definitely could be.

A know-it-all is a person who believes that he or she is extremely knowledgeable, and is determined to demonstrate his or her perceived intelligence at every opportunity.


I rest my case.

 

[sheepunite]

A know-it-all is a person who believes that he or she is extremely knowledgeable, and is determined to demonstrate his or her perceived intelligence at every opportunity.


I rest my case.

nice parry. 🙂

dude, it's an *informational* forum for *advice-giving*.
what'd you expect me to do, ponce around fawning over people and cheerleading them instead of trying to offer my best opinion?

i hope you can bring your critical thinking game to whatever MPH program you attend.

 

[AndrewJ42]

the name will get your far in some regards...in public health...not so much

 

[Erica]

.

 

[Erica]

erm, i'd re-direct you to the title of this thread. "how could one turn down an MPH at yale?" is the matter on the table. she'll be fine wherever she goes, but the question was whether, faced with other options, turning down yale could be a viable decision. and, yes, it definitely could be.

Also, I hijacked this thread a long time ago. The original poster was someone else. My question was not "how could one turn down an MPH at yale?" but merely why would you, because I wanted some more concrete reasons for all the hating going on.

 

[sheepunite]

It makes me think maybe you don't like it because of the "broad lustre of yale's name".... because that certainly wasn't what my response was based on..[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]


nope, not at all. yale's a great school with an amazing history.
have fun.

 

[AgentSik007]

Also, I hijacked this thread a long time ago. The original poster was someone else. My question was not "how could one turn down an MPH at yale?" but merely why would you, because I wanted some more concrete reasons for all the hating going on.

Erica is your concentration in Health Policy by any chance?


As far as my two cents, I do agree with a lot of folks here regarding Yale's current grant dilemma and rankings, it's very troublesome and definately a deterrent. However, I do have to interject because regardless of everything being said here, Yale has the cache name. Also, while I don't question the validity of a person quoting former Yale alums or professors, I do have to say that it is all dependent upon department. Yale at the moment has had a brain drain especially in their Epi and Environmental Health departments. In fact, I was at GW today and they are priding themselves on having recruited one of the former head researchers in tropical medicine from Yale. However, this does not ring true for Yale's Health Policy program. It is a very strong, well staffed and well supported program. One of it's best qualities is the fact that electives can be taken in the top ranked Yale School of Management, Yale School of Law and Yale Graduate Schools ( Econ, Poli Sci, etc). Not many places allow this kind of freedom, and when you speak to a potential employer regarding having not only completed an MPH at Yale but also having taken MBA/JD/MSc in Econ style classes, it really puts you a mile ahead of your competition. The classes are also small and personalized, you will never get the same type of attention at schools like Columbia whose health policy and management program is largely run with adjuncts ( there are 5 full time faculty for a yearly class size of 60 while Yale has 9 full time faculty for a class size in policy and management of 30).

Finally, when you, my fellow posters, decide to speak ill of a school, you should limit yourselves to specifics. You shouldn't generalize about MPH curriculum's and reputations, especially because students in areas such as health policy/management will seek employment often times outside the government health organizations (ie think tanks, consulting firms, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc.) where in all honesty the ivy league cache will open more doors to higher paying positions than your highly ranked and revered school like U Mich and Emory. In addition, as far as rankings go, there are schools like Columbia, which I have closely investigated, that are far too inadequate to equip individuals with a proper health policy background but are still ranked over other, much stronger programs such as those at GW and Yake. It's all something to keep in mind.

 

[Erica]

Erica is your concentration in Health Policy by any chance?

Yes, it is. Thanks for your input Agent. I think you bring up a very good point about taking concentration into account. Either way, these decisions are all very subjective and personal, if there was one "right" school everyone would be trying to go there.

 

[southerndoc]

The name does mean a lot. Even when I travel to remote countries for medicine, people are still wowed when they hear the Yale name. It's internationally renown, which Emory cannot claim.

Sometimes name does mean something, even if it isn't a top program.

Go wherever you think you will fit in the most.

 

[Doctorphilic]

-In terms of location, I think New Haven is actually an improvement from the city I will be coming from, and I am very much looking forward to getting out of the red states, also weekend travel in the NE is a lot more appealing than it is in the south… NYC, Boston, Toronto, etc.
-Even if the school of public health does not have the most funding, there is something to be said of being surrounded by excellence… the university has an amazing alumni network (including many important policy makers [my concentration]) and some of the brightest undergraduates in the world
-I spoke with a business student there who was listing all the great speakers that have come to give open talks on campus and I think that is a great resource
-The libraries are … amazing
-The pedagogy is very much in line with how I like to learn, and apparently you actually learn SAS, which, from what I gathered at Visit Emory, is something a lot of people are looking for in their program (and something that does not happen at Emory)
-The program is small ~100 students a year, accordingly the admission percentages are low… I don’t like that so many people are accepted to Emory (something around 70%?)… a student at Emory effectively said there are a whole lot of idiots in his classes and he would go anywhere else if he could, plus with so many students, another student said there were too many people vying for the same few CDC jobs and thesis mentors
-I have already seen the name having an effect. When I tell people I am considering between Yale and Emory, people fully ignore I even said Emory and ask me questions about Yale only; I know not all of these people are in the know about public health, but they are potential future employers and colleagues… not everyone in public health gets and MPH and considers the MPH programs
-It is a GOOD program, even if you don’t think it is the best
-A researcher I know in the field said Yale > Emory academically... I know this is very debatable here though
-I don’t like that I couldn’t change concentrations at Emory if I wanted to
-I love public health but don’t want to feel forever married to it! If I want to turn around and work in another sector, a degree from Yale would trump a degree from Emory
-The WHO has a center at Yale
-I like it…. And there are more but I need to decide I am comfortable with my decision and not let a message board disturb me

Hello Erica, I think your arguments are convincing so I am leaning more toward Yale (from Columbia, Berkeley, and Hopkins)!!!