How can optometrist claim to be physicians?

[DiveMD]

Rug Doctor's quotes

"I didn't know this thread would become so heated."

YES YOU DID


"optometrist should really work at emphasizing their real strengths, which is contact lenses. The contact lens part of ophthalmology residencies are sometimes taught by optometrists. "

OH HOW WONDERFUL OF YOU!

Actually our real strength is being what we are ----> Primary Eye Doctors who:

---Detect and diagnose eye diseases such as glaucoma, cataracts, retinal disorders, lid disorders, and infections such as conjunctivitis.

---Prescribe medication to treat eye diseases.

---Evaluate and treat vision conditions such as nearsightedness, farsightedness, astigmatism and presbyopia.

---Perform minor surgical procedures such as removing foreign objects from the eye.

---Provide pre- and post-operative care, especially for glaucoma, laser, refractive, and cataract patients.

---In some instances, perform laser, refractive or glaucoma surgeries.

from the AOA


Optometrists are real doctors, they are Eye Doctors

Have fun starting another flame war

I agree 100% percent with this post. OD’s are Doctors in Optometry; not Optometric Physicians.

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[Dr.Millisevert]

In some countries, optometrist get a Bachelors of Optometry and are called "Mr." or "Mrs."

If they want to call their degree "Doctor of Optometry", I can sort of see the logic. Then they want to be called "Dr."

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any or your points about optometry.. I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

In those same countries.. doctors also get a "Bachelor of medicine" instead of a doctor of medicine degree. Sometimes surgeons are also called Mr. (even though they hold a medical degree).

also.. just because you call your degree a "doctorate" doesn't mean it is any greater or lesser of a program than a "bachelors".

example: The MD degree in the US is 100% equivalent to a MBBS degree in the UK.

also.. even in the US those who graduated with a BSPT (physical therapy in the 80s) are equivalent physical therapy providers as those who graduated with a DPT degree last year.

(Americans like to call all of their professional programs "doctorates" because they can charge more for tuition for a doctorate than a bachelors usually, and they are more likely to have more applicants who want to be called "doctor".)

 

[Mirror Form]

LOL!

You are the LAST person that should be accusing me of having an "inferiority complex". Listen, "little man" feel free to send me a private message if you want to have a real real conversation about this topic. I have read a lot of your narrow minded comments filled with your own self-gratifying hubris! You are the one who insecure about optometry's "evil desire" to create a parallel profession and that scares you. You just wont admit it---everyone on here knows it! Optometry has nooo desire to become ophthalmology----Optometry is an awsome profession. It seems as if you were the little insecure nerd that was beat up everyday on the playground by a kid whos dad was an optometrist! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Awwwwwwww..... do you need a hug BrokenMirrorForm?
Please leave my wonderful "doctor" family out of your attacks please---my mother who is an internist said point blank, "If optometry existed in the form it is now back in the 70's I would have done it instead of the headaches I have to deal with on a regular basis." My whole family is excited that we are going to have an eye doctor among us when I am done. Again your comment, BrokenMirrorForm is a prime example of idiocy so please stop insulting my family. or I will complain to the administrator here.

PS: If you want to have a debate about this privately I challenge you to private message me....... And by the way I got a 33 on my MCAT (without studying much) and I still chose optometry!!!!!

Have a nice day.

Are you seriously in your 30's? It's just kind of hard to believe. And I'm glad that your mommy is supporting your choice to go to optometry school (little man).

 

[Mirror Form]

I think oculomotor has a good point........You seem to make the most biased idiotic comments on here over the last couple of years.


Were you beat up by a son of an optometrist growing up?

Well if you remember my posts over the past couple of years they must have hit the mark. I can't say I remember you or too many of your posts.

I was never physically beat up by an optometrist. But I've sure as hell been tortured by them on many a Friday afternoon at 4:30pm when they finally decide to refer their patient that they've been horrendously mismanaging all week (I use the term refer loosely, since when I refer patients for same day treatment I always call and talk to the accepting physician, whereas some optometrists just send the patient over w/o even a note and go home before I can call them, and it's all oka b/c they're optometrists). Of course that's not what most optometrists do. But there's enough like that that I've developed a good amount of contempt.

 

[Oculomotor]

Wow....so the derogatory rhetoric you have spewed on numerous occasions using terms like "*****", "idiot", etc.......plays well for a man who is 32 yrs old------that's your age. Cut the crap about the maturity thing because you are a hippcrate. And yes I do love my mom (maybe you don't love yours) and she is a 10x better physician than you will EVER be because she gets it. She not concerned about her MD title or any of the nonsense that rattles you soooo much rather she is caring person and an empathetic physician you insecure "little man."

Medicine is supposed to be an art and science.
Optometry is an art and science as well.


You need to learn a lesson in humility....

OD = Primary Eye Care Physician

 

[Oculomotor]

OD = Primary Eye Doctor

which is analagous to:

optometrist
doctor of optometry
optometric physician


MD = Eye Surgeon/ Eye Specialist

which is analagous to:

Eye Physician and Surgeon
Ophthalmic Surgeon
Eye Physician

 

[stevemc1]

Well if you remember my posts over the past couple of years they must have hit the mark. I can't say I remember you or too many of your posts.

I was never physically beat up by an optometrist. But I've sure as hell been tortured by them on many a Friday afternoon at 4:30pm when they finally decide to refer their patient that they've been horrendously mismanaging all week (I use the term refer loosely, since when I refer patients for same day treatment I always call and talk to the accepting physician, whereas some optometrists just send the patient over w/o even a note and go home before I can call them, and it's all oka b/c they're optometrists). Of course that's not what most optometrists do. But there's enough like that that I've developed a good amount of contempt.

Tread carefully or you'll get my full list of Ophthalmologist snafu's. Lucky for you I've forgotten more of them than I can remember, but the list will be impressive, nonetheless. I might even name names. Don't worry, I can back it up with actual patient charts, so I'm not concerned about slander/libel.

I'll give you one that happened yesterday, but I have many worse than this. MAJOR (just Google dallas LASIK and it will likely be the first one you see) Dallas LASIK surgeon does LASIK on both eyes of a patient. Problem is patient is deeply amblyopic (CF) with large angle XT OD (think 40-50 pd). How many eyes do you think this "Doctor" lasered.

Question? Should I refer negligent cases to a good malpractice attorney? Let me know, because I'm getting tired of covering some of your greedy "I want to cut on somebody" asses and it sounds like I shouldn't have any loyalty to you guys.

Don't get me wrong, most Ophthalmologists are incredibly gifted, but some of you I wouldn't let look at my dog. Same goes for ODs. But if you want to get down in the mud and compare horror stories..... well then let's go. I'm your huckleberry.

 

[MAYOphtho]

Alright everyone...cant we just be civil...I've never seen, in my life, so many people who are professionals attacking each other so viciously...A lot of these issues will not be solved in an open forum, so it just serves as a point of hostility

is this how it is in the real world of medicine? maybe I'm naive since I just matched in Ophthalmology...but it seems to me that this kind of anger and hostility towards one another will accomplish nothing other than anger both sides more

in the words of the famous Rodney King: "Cant we all just get along"

I look forward to you all being my colleagues one day

 

[stevemc1]

Thanks MAYOphtho. I hope you end up in my area eventually, and would look forward to sending you patients. Good luck to you my friend.

 

[DiveMD]

OD = Primary Eye Doctor

which is analagous to:

optometrist
doctor of optometry
optometric physician


MD = Eye Surgeon/ Eye Specialist

which is analagous to:

Eye Physician and Surgeon
Ophthalmic Surgeon
Eye Physician

HA! So, how would you call the graduates of the ARMY physician assistant doctoral program? Physicians as well? They see patients just like any other provider. What about Nurse Practitioners with doctoral degrees? Are they also physicians? My point is that having a doctoral degree (OD in your case) does not make you a physician. It makes you a Doctor in Optometry. Want to be a physician? Go to med school and become one.

 

[Oculomotor]

Let's just agree to disagree.......lol


at least we can both agree that optometrists are eye doctors and ophthalmologists are eye surgeons!




peace

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

LOL!

You are the LAST person that should be accusing me of having an "inferiority complex". Listen, "little man" feel free to send me a private message if you want to have a real real conversation about this topic. I have read a lot of your narrow minded comments filled with your own self-gratifying hubris! You are the one who insecure about optometry's "evil desire" to create a parallel profession and that scares you. You just wont admit it---everyone on here knows it! Optometry has nooo desire to become ophthalmology----Optometry is an awsome profession. It seems as if you were the little insecure nerd that was beat up everyday on the playground by a kid whos dad was an optometrist! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Awwwwwwww..... do you need a hug BrokenMirrorForm?
Please leave my wonderful "doctor" family out of your attacks please---my mother who is an internist said point blank, "If optometry existed in the form it is now back in the 70's I would have done it instead of the headaches I have to deal with on a regular basis." My whole family is excited that we are going to have an eye doctor among us when I am done. Again your comment, BrokenMirrorForm is a prime example of idiocy so please stop insulting my family. or I will complain to the administrator here.

PS: If you want to have a debate about this privately I challenge you to private message me....... And by the way I got a 33 on my MCAT (without studying much) and I still chose optometry!!!!!

Have a nice day.

Umm...I don't think he was talking about your family, boss. He was saying you probably feel inferior b/c everyone else in your family is a physician.

I could be wrong.

Rug Doctor's quotes

"I didn't know this thread would become so heated."

YES YOU DID


"optometrist should really work at emphasizing their real strengths, which is contact lenses. The contact lens part of ophthalmology residencies are sometimes taught by optometrists. "

OH HOW WONDERFUL OF YOU!

Actually our real strength is being what we are ----> Primary Eye Doctors who:

---Detect and diagnose eye diseases such as glaucoma, cataracts, retinal disorders, lid disorders, and infections such as conjunctivitis.

---Prescribe medication to treat eye diseases.

---Evaluate and treat vision conditions such as nearsightedness, farsightedness, astigmatism and presbyopia.

---Perform minor surgical procedures such as removing foreign objects from the eye.

---Provide pre- and post-operative care, especially for glaucoma, laser, refractive, and cataract patients.

---In some instances, perform laser, refractive or glaucoma surgeries.

from the AOA


Optometrists are real doctors, they are Eye Doctors

Have fun starting another flame war

 

[Mirror Form]

Tread carefully or you'll get my full list of Ophthalmologist snafu's. Lucky for you I've forgotten more of them than I can remember, but the list will be impressive, nonetheless. I might even name names. Don't worry, I can back it up with actual patient charts, so I'm not concerned about slander/libel.

I'll give you one that happened yesterday, but I have many worse than this. MAJOR (just Google dallas LASIK and it will likely be the first one you see) Dallas LASIK surgeon does LASIK on both eyes of a patient. Problem is patient is deeply amblyopic (CF) with large angle XT OD (think 40-50 pd). How many eyes do you think this "Doctor" lasered.

Question? Should I refer negligent cases to a good malpractice attorney? Let me know, because I'm getting tired of covering some of your greedy "I want to cut on somebody" asses and it sounds like I shouldn't have any loyalty to you guys.

Don't get me wrong, most Ophthalmologists are incredibly gifted, but some of you I wouldn't let look at my dog. Same goes for ODs. But if you want to get down in the mud and compare horror stories..... well then let's go. I'm your huckleberry.

That's a pretty piss poor move by that ophthalmologist. And don't get me wrong, I do also occasionally get that dreadful 4:30pm Friday call from ophthalmologists as well (especially if it's a corneal ulcer).

 

[Oculomotor]

"HA! So, how would you call the graduates of the ARMY physician assistant doctoral program? Physicians as well? They see patients just like any other provider. What about Nurse Practitioners with doctoral degrees? Are they also physicians? My point is that having a doctoral degree (OD in your case) does not make you a physician. It makes you a Doctor in Optometry. Want to be a physician? Go to med school and become one."

One more thing, all due respect to nurse practitioners and PA's but you cannot compare an allied health (mid-level, physician extender), in the case of a DNP---which is only 33 credit hours on top of a nurse practitioner, or the DHSPA (or whatever it is LOL)---both degree fluff with a 4 year clinical doctorate degree such as the doctor of optometry degree (OD) (or for that matter the DPM, or DDS...) Please refrain from comparing optometrists with allied health personel! The OD degree has been around since 1895 and is a "time tested" clinical doctorate degree which has always been an independent provider. I am in optometry school right now and we study AS MUCH as our DO counterparts. The (OD) is a real clinical doctorate.


Optometrists --->Primary Eye Care Physicians


like I said, we are just going to have to agree to disagree (especially when I go to my externships and "student optometric physician" is on my white coat (our official uniform here) to the VA Hospital, private ophthalmologists practices, and of course optometry practices! I LOVE IT!

 

[stonegoat]

Mirror Form,

I am about as pro-ophthalmology as an OD gets. My flyfishing partner is an ophthalomologist. He specializes in neuro-ophthalmology. I saw a patient of his a while back, whom he diagnosed as having mild optic atrophy. The patients BCVA was ~20/60. I did retinoscopy on the patient and noticed a funky reflex....long story short, he had keratoconus, not optic atrophy. He was correctable to 20/20 with a GP lens.

How about my local OMD who I sent a patient to with the diagnosis of HSK. After seeing the patient he told me he had floppy eyelid syndrome with a corneal epithelial defect. I knew he was wrong and within a week the patient's cornea was covered with dendritic lesions.

I still respect these OMDs....they are both excellent. The thing that pisses me off is that if an OD made these mistakes, and you sorted it out, you would automaticaly feel distain for the OD.

In my experience, ODs have to do things better that OMDs because we are always being so harshly judged by our ophthalomological colleagues.

 

[7ontheline]

For the love of God please lock this thread. The idiocy is overwhelming.

 

[BruinEye]

Wow, this thread has really gone crazy! Anyway, although med students and OD students really shouldn't be debating this because we will all end up talking out of our a*****, but, here are my two cents! For a little background, my dad is an OD, and I have just matched into ophtho. I have a great deal of respect for optometry and I have met a lot of jackass ophthalmologists and an equal number of such ODs. I actually like ODs!!! The main reason is, I want to do surgery. I am totally stoked to have somone intersted in doing the primary care, because that isn't my forte (or so I think at this point). As my dad says, as long as the surgeons have lots of surgeries and the clinics are full, everyone is happy. When people get pissed is when there are turf war and they don't have any pts. At this point I think all we can do is work our butts off and convince pts that we, be it OMDs or ODs are the best person to be caring for them.

BTW, not to point fingers at anyone, but my grandfather always used to say, if you try to convince people you're smart, they'll think you're dumb; best let them find out for themselves.

 

[DiveMD]

"HA! So, how would you call the graduates of the ARMY physician assistant doctoral program? Physicians as well? They see patients just like any other provider. What about Nurse Practitioners with doctoral degrees? Are they also physicians? My point is that having a doctoral degree (OD in your case) does not make you a physician. It makes you a Doctor in Optometry. Want to be a physician? Go to med school and become one."

One more thing, all due respect to nurse practitioners and PA's but you cannot compare an allied health (mid-level, physician extender), in the case of a DNP---which is only 33 credit hours on top of a nurse practitioner, or the DHSPA (or whatever it is LOL)---both degree fluff with a 4 year clinical doctorate degree such as the doctor of optometry degree (OD) (or for that matter the DPM, or DDS...) Please refrain from comparing optometrists with allied health personel! The OD degree has been around since 1895 and is a "time tested" clinical doctorate degree which has always been an independent provider. I am in optometry school right now and we study AS MUCH as our DO counterparts. The (OD) is a real clinical doctorate.


Optometrists --->Primary Eye Care Physicians


like I said, we are just going to have to agree to disagree (especially when I go to my externships and "student optometric physician" is on my white coat (our official uniform here) to the VA Hospital, private ophthalmologists practices, and of course optometry practices! I LOVE IT!

Sure... say that to your patients and let them figure it out....

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Closing the flame war... please do not start any flame wars in this forum. If you can't discuss heated topics politely and respect others, then please do not post. Send PMs.