How come Psychiatry isn't part of ROAD

Panacea Financial Contract Review
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I think because it doesn't pay enough. The ROAD specialties are supposed to be big bucks coupled with an easier lifestyle. From what I've heard about psych (please psych guys correct me if I'm wrong), the lifestyle isn't horrible, but the pay is on the lower end for physicians. It looks like the average psych salary below $200k, and the ROAD salaries are pushing $300k. PM&R seems to be the same deal.
 
What the deuce does "ROAD" mean?
 
There's still quite a stigma amongst physicians when it comes to caring for the mentally ill.

Until the stigma disappears (unlikely to happen overnight), then it won't make it into the list of most competitive specialties.

Money wise, private practice psychiatrists can make just as much if not more than some ROAD doctors.
 
PsychMD2100 said:
There's still quite a stigma amongst physicians when it comes to caring for the mentally ill.

Until the stigma disappears (unlikely to happen overnight), then it won't make it into the list of most competitive specialties.

Money wise, private practice psychiatrists can make just as much if not more than some ROAD doctors.
Click to expand...


Face it, for every psychiatrist holding the hands of rich neurotics in cash-only practice, there are 10 of us working with the chronically and persistently downwardly mobile severely mental ill.

If you're allergic to poverty, don't go into psychiatry.
 
OldPsychDoc said:
Face it, for every psychiatrist holding the hands of rich neurotics in cash-only practice, there are 10 of us working with the chronically and persistently downwardly mobile severely mental ill.

If you're allergic to poverty, don't go into psychiatry.
Click to expand...
how much can a cash only psychiatrist make in nyc?
 
jjmack said:
how much can a cash only psychiatrist make in nyc?
Click to expand...

I've heard rates of $300/hr, though I think this assumes that you've graduated from a top residency program (e.g. Columbia, Cornell) so that your rich and somewhat narcissistic patients are willing to pay so much for the "best" treatment. Also, I'm guessing that they would be paying not only for medication management, but also for psychotherapy.
 
strangeglove said:
I've heard rates of $300/hr, though I think this assumes that you've graduated from a top residency program (e.g. Columbia, Cornell) so that your rich and somewhat narcissistic patients are willing to pay so much for the "best" treatment. Also, I'm guessing that they would be paying not only for medication management, but also for psychotherapy.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure how much influence residency prestige has over wealthy patients. Down here in West Palm Beach you'd be hard pressed to find a private practitioner charging less than <200/hr. Many of them have websites and apparently received training at standard academic programs i.e. no Harvard, UCSF etc. I think positioning is the biggest factor in drawing the rich i.e. they like local, easily accessible psychiatrists. My point is that there are far more wealthy individuals with emotional problems than there are private practitioners from the "top" programs to care for them; though I can see how coming from a top program might make market entry a bit easier.
 
robberbaron said:
I'm not so sure how much influence residency prestige has over wealthy patients. Down here in West Palm Beach you'd be hard pressed to find a private practitioner charging less than <200/hr. Many of them have websites and apparently received training at standard academic programs i.e. no Harvard, UCSF etc. I think positioning is the biggest factor in drawing the rich i.e. they like local, easily accessible psychiatrists. My point is that there are far more wealthy individuals with emotional problems than there are private practitioners from the "top" programs to care for them; though I can see how coming from a top program might make market entry a bit easier.
Click to expand...

One get's the feeling, though, that there is much more "branding" of psychiatry in NYC than in other places, especially places, like Palm Beach, that aren't located near a top ranked medical center. Also, the market in New York is much more saturated than in Palm Beach, so, as you mention, residency reputation is likely to help in breaking into this market. Of course, from what I know about Palm Beach, I'm sure that many of the patients there also have psychiatrists in NYC, just like they also have a place on the Upper East Side or in Westchester.
 
🙁 Are we even in the same specialty here???
This boutique psychotherapy crap has as much to do with mental health issues in this country as liposuction does with the obesity epidemic!
 
OldPsychDoc said:
🙁 Are we even in the same specialty here???
This boutique psychotherapy crap has as much to do with mental health issues in this country as liposuction does with the obesity epidemic!
Click to expand...

You're Awesome👍
 
Doctor Bagel said:
Yeah, that! Glad someone's out there in the trenches. 👍
Click to expand...

Thanks for the props. I'm not Mother Teresa. As far as lifestyle, the hours aren't awful, and I'm making a healthy income--more than I ever dreamed, really. We should be humbled, though, to realize that what we make in a year is probably 5- to 10-times what the majority of our patients see. And I find it annoying, to say the least, to think that I can't get these patients seen sooner than two months post-discharge, because there's so few docs out there willing to take MA patients.

Just to get back to the original question though, Psych isn't a "lifestyle specialty" because for the most part, we don't deal with the "beautiful people" all day long. Oh well--I got hugged today by a tiny little immigrant woman, who used her entire English vocabulary to thank me for taking care of her son. 😍
 
I know many psychiatrists who work with the chronically mentally ill AND pay the bills by maintaining small private practices treating the wealthy. Just because you're rich, it doesn't mean you don't need treatment (although I also rankle at the profit-driven pursuit of entire careers dedicated to cash-only practice).
 
Doc Samson said:
I know many psychiatrists who work with the chronically mentally ill AND pay the bills by maintaining small private practices treating the wealthy. Just because you're rich, it doesn't mean you don't need treatment (although I also rankle at the profit-driven pursuit of entire careers dedicated to cash-only practice).
Click to expand...

Although, related to OldPsychDoc's point, I wonder how many of these rich patients actually see psychiatric treatment similarly to the way they see liposuction - as a way of absolving themselves of a life of empty consumption. I'm talking about the "neurotics" here (to use OldPsychDoc's term), and not the Axis I types.
 
Doc Samson said:
I know many psychiatrists who work with the chronically mentally ill AND pay the bills by maintaining small private practices treating the wealthy. Just because you're rich, it doesn't mean you don't need treatment (although I also rankle at the profit-driven pursuit of entire careers dedicated to cash-only practice).
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with Doc Samson's point that many psychiatrists have combined practices. A mentor of mine who I'd like to emulate has a boutique practice as well as an academic appointment at an inner city hospital. He maintains his presence in both fields. If anything, it makes him better equipped to manage the diversity seen in mental health since he's continually managing patients from all socioeconomic strata.

An established psychiatrist (over 10 years out of training) from a "Top Ten" program can charge--and receive--$500 an hour for a combined med/therapy practice. Forensic psychiatrists can receive up to $1000 per hour if testifying during a trial; depositions/research command much less.

Asking whether we're in the same profession is missing the point. We operate in a market economy and we're allowed to make choices regarding the type of practice we pursue. Saying that a general surgeon doing suburban bariatric surgeries is less of a surgeon (or isn't in the same profession) than an inner-city surgeon doing trauma is rather silly.

The accumulation of lucre does not make one less of a psychiatrist. If anything, it frees one up to practice psychiatry whichever way one chooses. In the end, a financially secure psychiatrist will likely take his/her time and turn out a better product.
 
PsychMD2100 said:
I'd have to agree with Doc Samson's point that many psychiatrists have combined practices. A mentor of mine who I'd like to emulate has a boutique practice as well as an academic appointment at an inner city hospital. He maintains his presence in both fields. If anything, it makes him better equipped to manage the diversity seen in mental health since he's continually managing patients from all socioeconomic strata.

An established psychiatrist (over 10 years out of training) from a "Top Ten" program can charge--and receive--$500 an hour for a combined med/therapy practice. Forensic psychiatrists can receive up to $1000 per hour if testifying during a trial; depositions/research command much less.

Asking whether we're in the same profession is missing the point. We operate in a market economy and we're allowed to make choices regarding the type of practice we pursue. Saying that a general surgeon doing suburban bariatric surgeries is less of a surgeon (or isn't in the same profession) than an inner-city surgeon doing trauma is rather silly.

The accumulation of lucre does not make one less of a psychiatrist. If anything, it frees one up to practice psychiatry whichever way one chooses. In the end, a financially secure psychiatrist will likely take his/her time and turn out a better product.
Click to expand...


Do people really care where you went for residency?
 
strangeglove said:
Although, related to OldPsychDoc's point, I wonder how many of these rich patients actually see psychiatric treatment similarly to the way they see liposuction - as a way of absolving themselves of a life of empty consumption. I'm talking about the "neurotics" here (to use OldPsychDoc's term), and not the Axis I types.
Click to expand...

I don't think that doing psychotherapy for neurosis makes you less of a psychiatrist. Where do we draw the line? Pts with somatic symptoms of neurotic illness don't deserve treatment because "they're not that sick"? In my neck of the woods, many psychiatry residents get psychotherapy themselves to better understand their own countertransferential lens - since most of these folks have no psychiatric diagnosis (either Axis I or II), should we disparage the psychiatrists that provide them psychotherapy?
 
Doc Samson said:
I don't think that doing psychotherapy for neurosis makes you less of a psychiatrist. Where do we draw the line? Pts with somatic symptoms of neurotic illness don't deserve treatment because "they're not that sick"? In my neck of the woods, many psychiatry residents get psychotherapy themselves to better understand their own countertransferential lens - since most of these folks have no psychiatric diagnosis (either Axis I or II), should we disparage the psychiatrists that provide them psychotherapy?
Click to expand...

I did not mean to disparage. In fact, I feel that it would be best if everyone had the opportunity to talk to a therapist once a week. What's sad is that this is only available to a select few elites. Of course, many of these elites have real problems, by which I mean Axis I, Axis II and "the neuroses". However, my understanding is that neuroses are primarily dealt with by psychoanlaytic approaches, which are really only accessible to the rich since they are not reimbursed by insurers. This leads to the unfortunate impression that neuroses are a luxury for the rich. Also, it seems to me that most of one's training in psychotherapy in residency is with graduate students or college-age children of upper middle class families, not with the chronically mentally ill patients in the local community. I suspect that this acts to limit one's understanding of who would benefit from psychotherapy.

This brings up another issue related to the notion of "boutique" psychiatry (for lack of a better term). I suspect that the elites of American society - those who make the decisions about things like what sort of medical care gets reimbursed by Medicaid and what gets on television - get most of their psychiatric care from boutique psychiatrists. Many of these elites may view psychiatry in a way similar to how they see other high-cost services (e.g. plastic surgery), the attainment of which separates them from the rest of society. This may feed into a notion that psychiatric care, in particular psychotherapy, is really a luxury of some sort. Perhaps this has some impact on how psychiatric services are reimbursed by insurers, or how psychiatrists are depicted in the media.
 
Unfortunately insurance companies have made it (in some cases) very hard to practice and make a living doing psychotherapy. That being said, time limited psychodynamic therapy has shown to be quite effective with the right circumstances (and covered by insurance), for those looking for a more traditional approach.

I can't speak to specifically to psychiatric training, but from what I've heard from others....they can have access to a wide range of the population (depending on the site). In an ideal world there would be more opportunities with a more diverse population, but I think if that is something you want to do, you can usually find the training.

-t
 
strangeglove said:
...
This brings up another issue related to the notion of "boutique" psychiatry (for lack of a better term). I suspect that the elites of American society - those who make the decisions about things like what sort of medical care gets reimbursed by Medicaid and what gets on television - get most of their psychiatric care from boutique psychiatrists. Many of these elites may view psychiatry in a way similar to how they see other high-cost services (e.g. plastic surgery), the attainment of which separates them from the rest of society. This may feed into a notion that psychiatric care, in particular psychotherapy, is really a luxury of some sort. Perhaps this has some impact on how psychiatric services are reimbursed by insurers, or how psychiatrists are depicted in the media.
Click to expand...

This is a good point & might be what's got bees under my bonnet about this "lifestyle" thing.

Which reminds me--this week, while your representatives are home on Memorial Day recess, take a moment to call their office or drop them an email inquiring about their position on HR1424*, also known as the Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act of 2007. This bill has wide bipartisan support, and is a long overdue mandate that insurors provide equivalent benefits for mental illness and addictions. It's the right thing to do. Right now over half of the House is signed on as co-sponsors of the bill, so a note thanking your Representative might also be in order.

Thanks.

*for more information, search at http://thomas.loc.gov/.
 
I tried to click on the Wellstone link and I saw an error message.

I think that prestige matters if you're going into a boutique practice arrangement. Paying customers like to think that they are being treated by psychiatrists with supposedly "the best" training possible.
 
strangeglove said:
I did not mean to disparage. In fact, I feel that it would be best if everyone had the opportunity to talk to a therapist once a week. What's sad is that this is only available to a select few elites. Of course, many of these elites have real problems, by which I mean Axis I, Axis II and "the neuroses". However, my understanding is that neuroses are primarily dealt with by psychoanlaytic approaches, which are really only accessible to the rich since they are not reimbursed by insurers. This leads to the unfortunate impression that neuroses are a luxury for the rich. Also, it seems to me that most of one's training in psychotherapy in residency is with graduate students or college-age children of upper middle class families, not with the chronically mentally ill patients in the local community. I suspect that this acts to limit one's understanding of who would benefit from psychotherapy.

This brings up another issue related to the notion of "boutique" psychiatry (for lack of a better term). I suspect that the elites of American society - those who make the decisions about things like what sort of medical care gets reimbursed by Medicaid and what gets on television - get most of their psychiatric care from boutique psychiatrists. Many of these elites may view psychiatry in a way similar to how they see other high-cost services (e.g. plastic surgery), the attainment of which separates them from the rest of society. This may feed into a notion that psychiatric care, in particular psychotherapy, is really a luxury of some sort. Perhaps this has some impact on how psychiatric services are reimbursed by insurers, or how psychiatrists are depicted in the media.
Click to expand...

Admittedly, this may be geographically biased, but here in the "so blue we're indigo" state of Massachusetts, most insurers actually pay for psychotherapy (regardless of theoretical affiliation). Thus, most of my long-term therapy patients have been working class/lower middle class folk - nearly all of whom I was treating for some sort of neurosis (although I billed for Mood DO NOS, Anxiety State Unspecified, or Adjustment Reaction). Perhaps that colors my view of not seeing psychodynamic psychotherapy as a luxury for the rich.
 
I don't like the lumping of anything that is high priced psychiatric practice as bogus or fancy city fallootin' 'this salsa's made in New York City!' "boutique" unneeded, with "rich neurotics" Paris Hiltony fluff.

I'm not saying my clinic is serving the movers and shakers of gotham. However, just because someone, read: wealthy Village art dealer, comes in and pays the sliding scale fee because he finds his pseudoneurotic schizophrenic tendencies too much to bear at times, that I'm running a rich neurosis mill.

Just for the record, most, if not all, of my residency faculty work in the trenches mostly during the day, and make a lot of money running their boutiques in the evenings.
 
Nicely put anasazi,

I've always felt that medical school/residency have always done trainees a disservice by not bringing up how to run a successful medical practice. Thankfully, this is beginning to change with some med schools offering crash courses on medical coding, risk management, etc.

While the welfare of patients and society come first, we should never be of the mindset that anything not serving patient/societal interests is somehow lesser or beneath the attention of a psychiatrist.
 
OldPsychDoc said:
Which reminds me--this week, while your representatives are home on Memorial Day recess, take a moment to call their office or drop them an email inquiring about their position on HR1424*, also known as the Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act of 2007. This bill has wide bipartisan support, and is a long overdue mandate that insurors provide equivalent benefits for mental illness and addictions. It's the right thing to do. Right now over half of the House is signed on as co-sponsors of the bill, so a note thanking your Representative might also be in order.
Click to expand...

Does this bill rectify the 50% reimbursement rate by medicare/aid for psychiatrists vs. 80% for all other physician specialties?
 
While I am by no means a lawyer, the Wellstone Bill appears to make reimbursement the same whether the diagnosis is psychiatric or "medical".

This bill is key and it will do a tremendous amount for our field.

I've gone ahead and e-mailed the Congressman for my district as well as both of my US Senators.
 
I hope that the movie, "Sicko" will cause the medical profession to reflect on equitable care for everyone because it's a human right. Seems that physicians are so worried about their pay that what is going on with patients is getting lost, IMHO.

The same insurance companies who are screwing doctors are screwing patients. But instead of working towards a system thats a win-win for both physicians and patients, physicians are opting out and going to cash based practices? Our country really is every man for himself these days, isn't it?
 
True enough. The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons immediately come to mind. It seems that the group comprising most of those who are against health care as a human right are 1. physicians and 2. people who can afford to pay cash for their healthcare. Unless one follows the philosophy of Ayn Rand, it is hard to disagree that how healthcare is meted out in this country is pretty much warped, especially when it comes to the inequitable coverage for mental illness, to name one segment.
 
Yep, NYC psychiatrists do tend to charge $250 or $300 for a 45 minute psychotherapy session. Some charge more. NYC also has a disproportionate number of the most rigorously trained, hardest working, and best known psychiatrists in the country. Some of this stems from NYC having a disproportionate number of rich people who support this small army of therapists, but NYC has even more middle class people who are pushing themselves very hard, who want to understand themselves, and who see psychodynamic psychotherapy as important.

As for calling linking outpatient psychotherapy to the word "boutique"...

This denigration of psychotherapy has become pervasive in some parts of the country and reflects--I think--the fact that many psychiatrists are receiving a poor education in psychodynamics. This poor education leads them to a superficial understanding of therapy and psychodynamics and, to my mind, a superficial understanding of human beings. People who "work in the trenches" can beat their chests and self righteously describe how their work is more important than outpatient psychotherapy, but snide doesn't mean wise. It has become increasingly clear that therapy is as effective as meds in treating a bunch of psych illnesses and that the combination often works best. As more and more people are trained in places that have caved into the pressure from big pharma and big insurance and personal laziness, we will see psychiatrists with increasingly substandard educations so that the number of psychiatrists who can function with reasonable professional balance will shrink, leaving patients the obligation to see a therapist AND a psychiatrist, with neither professional having a particularly three dimensional understanding of their suffering.

Finally, psychiatry doesn't belong to ROAD because those are fields that treat subsets of a person and allow for essentially no call or ongoing patient relationships. Psych treats whole people and is much more like medicine or FP.
 
Abby Normal said:
I hope that the movie, "Sicko" will cause the medical profession to reflect on equitable care for everyone because it's a human right. Seems that physicians are so worried about their pay that what is going on with patients is getting lost, IMHO.
The same insurance companies who are screwing doctors are screwing patients. But instead of working towards a system thats a win-win for both physicians and patients, physicians are opting out and going to cash based practices? Our country really is every man for himself these days, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Personally I don't think physicians are worried about their pay enough. Physicians as a whole are grossly underpaid for how much we go through (school, loans, residency, etc etc). Physicians salaries have consistently gone down year after year (especially compared to inflation) for almost 2 decades now. You make it sound like we're all money grubbing animals, when we went into a field that does nothing but help people. We constantly get screwed by insurance companies, lawyers, patients, etc. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay just as good if not better than being a doctor, especially considering how much they go through to get to those points. Every single one of us is hard working enough, intelligent enough, etc to get to those points.

Pharmacists make close to $100k starting in most areas yet only have 4 years of post-BA school to go through. The process isn't nearly as competitive and their jobs aren't nearly as stressful, plus for them to do a residency is optional. I have a few friends who are pharmacists and one of them is making $150k+ a year working from home 4-5 years out of pharm school.

Nurses all unionize and continue to see better pay, better hours, better benefits. You could say the same for NPs, PAs, etc. The list literally goes on and on.

Even outside of the medical field, I had friends who were making close to $100k with benefits their first year out of college and now in our mid 20s at least half of my friends are at that point. They also work about 40-50 hours a week instead of the 50-60+ that most doctors put in.

There are people on wall street whose bonuses easily top 10-20 doctors yearly salaries. There are people in the entertainment business (sports, movies, music, etc etc) that all make millions and millions. Most people don't even blink when the cost of a movie ticket, or the seat at sporting event goes up in price, but they cry/b###h/moan if their co-pay goes up.

You could argue that having a roof over someone's head should be a human right too. Does that mean we should offer free housing to everyone as well?

I'm all for health care that helps out people in need, but free health care is the last thing this country needs. We've all been taught in medical school and heard it several times that the #1 / #2 preventable causes of death in this country are obesity / smoking (read: the 2 biggest costs for medical care today). We've all done surgery rotations and seen trauma cases (esp MVAs) that are usually the result of alcohol or foul play. We've all seen the frequent fliers on quite a few rotations.

Most people in this country already take their health care for granted.
And while I agree with you, that there are people in this country who need help and aren't simply getting it, I will disagree and say free health care for everyone is NOT the answer.

While free health care does help more people, it also would increase complacency (in the already ridiculously complacent 'lets blame someone else' country of ours). It would also increase the time for people to get key and critical health services. I've talked to Canadians and people from European countries who've said they've had to wait months on end to get certain imaging procedures, appointments, etc.

It's great to see that you are such a caring person, but do remember that you are in a field where you can help people at no cost when you choose to do so. You also help people every day, but please don't let your emotions/great sense of care get in the way of taking a look at whats going on in this country around us.

There's a thread in the General Residency Issues forum that talks about nurses / police officers making more than residents in the city of San Francisco. It's a good read. I'd recommend it. It really addresses a lot of what's wrong with medicine today.

*edit* Let me also add and say I'd be 100% for free health care in this country if the majority of people would take some responsibility for their own problems (not that it'll happen anytime soon): 1) stop ridiculous medical malpractice lawsuits 2) stop / ban smoking 3) stop/ban illegal drugs 3) consume alcohol in far more moderation 4) take the time to exercise / lose some weight / stop eating & consuming the way we do / curb our obesity epidemic.
 
mgdsh said:
Personally I don't think physicians are worried about their pay enough. Physicians as a whole are grossly underpaid for how much we go through (school, loans, residency, etc etc). Physicians salaries have consistently gone down year after year (especially compared to inflation) for almost 2 decades now. You make it sound like we're all money grubbing animals, when we went into a field that does nothing but help people. We constantly get screwed by insurance companies, lawyers, patients, etc. There are plenty of jobs out there that pay just as good if not better than being a doctor, especially considering how much they go through to get to those points. Every single one of us is hard working enough, intelligent enough, etc to get to those points.

Pharmacists make close to $100k starting in most areas yet only have 4 years of post-BA school to go through. The process isn't nearly as competitive and their jobs aren't nearly as stressful, plus for them to do a residency is optional. I have a few friends who are pharmacists and one of them is making $150k+ a year working from home 4-5 years out of pharm school.

Nurses all unionize and continue to see better pay, better hours, better benefits. You could say the same for NPs, PAs, etc. The list literally goes on and on.

Even outside of the medical field, I had friends who were making close to $100k with benefits their first year out of college and now in our mid 20s at least half of my friends are at that point. They also work about 40-50 hours a week instead of the 50-60+ that most doctors put in.

There are people on wall street whose bonuses easily top 10-20 doctors yearly salaries. There are people in the entertainment business (sports, movies, music, etc etc) that all make millions and millions. Most people don't even blink when the cost of a movie ticket, or the seat at sporting event goes up in price, but they cry/b###h/moan if their co-pay goes up.

You could argue that having a roof over someone's head should be a human right too. Does that mean we should offer free housing to everyone as well?

I'm all for health care that helps out people in need, but free health care is the last thing this country needs. We've all been taught in medical school and heard it several times that the #1 / #2 preventable causes of death in this country are obesity / smoking (read: the 2 biggest costs for medical care today). We've all done surgery rotations and seen trauma cases (esp MVAs) that are usually the result of alcohol or foul play. We've all seen the frequent fliers on quite a few rotations.

Most people in this country already take their health care for granted.
And while I agree with you, that there are people in this country who need help and aren't simply getting it, I will disagree and say free health care for everyone is NOT the answer.

While free health care does help more people, it also would increase complacency (in the already ridiculously complacent 'lets blame someone else' country of ours). It would also increase the time for people to get key and critical health services. I've talked to Canadians and people from European countries who've said they've had to wait months on end to get certain imaging procedures, appointments, etc.

*edit* Let me also add and say I'd be 100% for free health care in this country if the majority of people would take some responsibility for their own problems (not that it'll happen anytime soon): 1) stop ridiculous medical malpractice lawsuits 2) stop / ban smoking 3) stop/ban illegal drugs 3) consume alcohol in far more moderation 4) take the time to exercise / lose some weight / stop eating & consuming the way we do / curb our obesity epidemic.
Click to expand...

How do you define "key and critical health services"? Is THA key and critical? Then yes, in the UK you have to wait for 6 months to a year (or longer) to get it. Is cardio angio with unstable angina key and critical? I think so, and you can get same day/next day on the NHS. Is seeing a psychiatrist critical when you are depressed and suicidal? Yes, it is - and you will get to see one same day/next day/no later than two weeks after the refferal from your GP, depending how suicidal you are. I agree that having socialized healthcare system increases waiting lists for ELECTIVE procedures, but in an emergency you will be seen and sorted out promptly.

You are saying that people should take responsibility for their own health. I agree. But, most people need more health education to enable them to do so - and this is one of the goals of preventive medicine. Unfortunately, the people that would benefit from health education and targeted interventions (like exercise program) the most, are also the least likely to have access to healthcare advice and appropriate resourses. Those living in poverty are also least likely to undergo screening programs, therefore only receiving (note, I did not say seeking) medical attention when their problems come to a head, and the efficacy of medical interventions is reduced.

Compare average life expectany in the UK (socialized healthcare) with average life expectancy in the US (especially, if you look at ethnic minorities). What more can I say?
 
BabyPsychDoc said:
Compare average life expectany in the UK (socialized healthcare) with average life expectancy in the US (especially, if you look at ethnic minorities). What more can I say?
Click to expand...

And therein lies the tangled web.

Same argument goes for violent crime and the gun-banning argument. The UK doesn't have our population subsets in equal numbers. So statistics are different. Same goes for healthcare and health education.

The DM and obsity epidemic didn't exist in 1955. It does now. There's a reason for that. The culture has changed on all fronts, and modified hedonism and entitlement rules the day.
 
Anasazi23 said:
And therein lies the tangled web.

Same argument goes for violent crime and the gun-banning argument. The UK doesn't have our population subsets in equal numbers. So statistics are different. Same goes for healthcare and health education.

The DM and obsity epidemic didn't exist in 1955. It does now. There's a reason for that. The culture has changed on all fronts, and modified hedonism and entitlement rules the day.
Click to expand...

Sixty-plus year of relative peace, prosperity and technological advances brought about the inevitable changes in people's attitudes and behaviour - including health-related ones. There is little we can do to change it, other than health-education etc - which people are less likely to access if they have to pay for it.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying about the difference in statistics between the two countries. Could you elaborate, please?

Thanks.
 
*edit* oops... moved it to the new thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

WolfBoy3000
What is your favorite part(s) of being a psychiatrist?
Replies
9
Views
842
Merovinge
Merovinge
I
How do I know how competitive I am for psychiatry programs? How do I know which programs to signal?
Replies
3
Views
1K
Stagg737
Stagg737
WildWing
FAQ - Psychiatry
Replies
0
Views
1K
WildWing
WildWing
T
"Medical clearance" in emergency psychiatry
Replies
8
Views
2K
comp1
C
MrFlyGuy
ETSU Psychiatry
Replies
0
Views
946
MrFlyGuy
MrFlyGuy
Top