How common are first author publications as an undergrad?

[lll1I1lII1lll1I]

We are finishing up a paper that we're planning to send to a journal (IF ~ 4-6) in a matter of days, and I was put as the first author. I was wondering, if this gets accepted (*fingers crossed*), how significant of an accomplishment this is.

I've read a lot on SDN that pre-meds shouldn't even expect a publication even if engaged with research for years, and it seems that among the few people who do get publications that they are usually listed after the 2nd author.

To get an idea, please respond to the poll. Thanks.

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[Caesar]

not very common.

 

[muhali3]

I'd say < 5%

 

[latrala2300]

no offense, but i think the poll is insignificant. CONGRATS if it gets accepted. you'll know youre among the top. if it isnt, you still have a shot at the top since youre likely the type of student who excels (just based on a serious submission to a reputable journal). it's uncommon; i'd argue that the degree of 'uncommonality' is insignificant and counterproductive.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

It's not that common, but it's much less common than being last author as an undergrad. Of course, if you're pub's in the Bumstown Journal of Who Cares, then...

 

[schrizto]

that's really uncommon, congrats! what would you say was the level of involvement you had in the paper?

 

[NickNaylor]

Not even uncommon these days. Find something else.

 

[boggvir]

It's not that common, but it's much less common than being last author as an undergrad. Of course, if you're pub's in the Bumstown Journal of Who Cares, then...

Actually, if it's a peer-reviewed journal, people do. I would. I've not met a single person on any admission committee that would say that a first author in a peer-reviewed journal is irrelevant for an undergrad. My sister got accepted to top ten PhD programs without a first author (lots of second authors). It's hard and not at all easy to get a first author in most labs. If you're lucky in your choice of labs, then you may get one. Adcoms don't expect it and it's a nice thing to have.

IF is a mixed bag and varies so widely within a field that you can't worry about it except within that field -- like Immunology tends to be high IF while some other subjects tend to be low IF. So comparing someone in immunology with, for example, behavioral neuroscience based on IF is completely unfair and people know this. You have to look at the work within the same field to make a comparison.

Not even uncommon these days. Find something else.

Uh, it most definitely is.

 

[chrisoc13]

Not even uncommon these days. Find something else.

Really Cole the Troll? This is what you chose to contribute?

To the OP: Hopefully your publication works out! It certainly is not common to be the first author as an undergrad. My wife is a graduate student and she still rarely gets to be first author even when she has done nearly all the work. Her overseeing professor still manages to get put on top somehow. So congrats, that really is a big deal if it works out.

 

[echolalia16]

Judging from the results of the polls, I'd say nobody here has any clue.

 

[FSAP]

Might as well ask who here has a first author. I expect not many people do. Congrats on the submission. Good luck with revisions. Hopefully, it is out by the time you interview.

 

[NickNaylor]

Really Cole the Troll? This is what you chose to contribute?

To the OP: Hopefully your publication works out! It certainly is not common to be the first author as an undergrad. My wife is a graduate student and she still rarely gets to be first author even when she has done nearly all the work. Her overseeing professor still manages to get put on top somehow. So congrats, that really is a big deal if it works out.

I actually like that. I wish I could change my name.

 

[deleted202457]

I actually like that. I wish I could change my name.

👍 It's kinda catchy lol.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'd guess 1/5 of applicants at my top 25 school have pubs and 1/5 of those are 1st author. You can do the math.

 

[boggvir]

This is why we picked Biology.

 

[JJMrK]

I don't think any of us can vote in that poll accurately. I'd guess that maybe 20% of people who get accepted have a publication. Maybe 5% have a 1st author pub, and probably <1% have a last author pub.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't think any of us can vote in that poll accurately. I'd guess that maybe 20% of people who get accepted have a publication. Maybe 5% have a 1st author pub, and probably <1% have a last author pub.

Unless you're a phd who has your own lab before med school, you won't be senior author on a pub...

 

[JJMrK]

Unless you're a phd who has your own lab before med school, you won't be senior author on a pub...

Hence the <1%.

 

[FSAP]

Unless you're a phd who has your own lab before med school, you won't be senior author on a pub...

Not necessarily. Grad students are sometimes given senior authorship on papers by their PI, so I am sure there is a genius undergrad out there who got that honor too.

 

[drizzt3117]

Not necessarily. Grad students are sometimes given senior authorship on papers by their PI, so I am sure there is a genius undergrad out there who got that honor too.

It's possible. I've never heard of it though and I've been involved in research for 8 years, though.

 

[Kaustikos]

Not even uncommon these days. Find something else.

That and curing cancer.

 

[boggvir]

It's possible. I've never heard of it though and I've been involved in research for 8 years, though.

Nah, it does happen. In my lab, an undergrad student got a first author (he'd been working there for three years). Grad students get first author all the time - generally PIs are last authors actually.

 

[FSAP]

Nah, it does happen. In my lab, an undergrad student got a first author (he'd been working there for three years). Grad students get first author all the time - generally PIs are last authors actually.

Senior authorship = last 🙂. I have never heard of it either, but I also thought it was impossible for undergrad to get Science/Nature first author until I saw one.

 

[Kaustikos]

edit -
oh, fk, I read it wrong...

nvm

 

[JJMrK]

Nah, it does happen. In my lab, an undergrad student got a first author (he'd been working there for three years). Grad students get first author all the time - generally PIs are last authors actually.

We are talking about last author, which is generally where the PI's name goes. It would be very, very rare for an undergrad's name to be here (though not impossible, and not all applicants are straight from undergrad, which is why I estimated the number to be <1% of all matriculants).

 

[drizzt3117]

Nah, it does happen. In my lab, an undergrad student got a first author (he'd been working there for three years). Grad students get first author all the time - generally PIs are last authors actually.

I was referring to senior author, I.e. Last.

 

[drizzt3117]

The thing is, it's not useful for a ug/grad student, etc to be senior author. Your name isn't listed in references that hsve 3 authors then et al. Even if people saw your name they'd have never heard of your lab because you don't have one. It's only useful for people with a strong longitudinal reputation.

 

[boggvir]

We are talking about last author, which is generally where the PI's name goes. It would be very, very rare for an undergrad's name to be here (though not impossible, and not all applicants are straight from undergrad, which is why I estimated the number to be <1% of all matriculants).

I was referring to senior author, I.e. Last.

Ah my bad, I misunderstood.

Yes, I've never ever seen that. That'd be weird as hell. Even grad students and post-docs aren't last author.

If I saw that, it would imply that the grad students, post-docs, and the PI were working on instructions from the undergrad and went to him for support/issues. I'd definitely grill him on that.

 

[kami333]

Pretty uncommon, I know some PhDs that have graduated without any 1st author papers (I know of one who graduated with no pubs just pending ones).

 

[drizzt3117]

The only realistic way a ug would be senior author would be in like a local university journal where the authors are three ugs and they put the names in alphabetical order or something.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

We are talking about last author, which is generally where the PI's name goes. It would be very, very rare for an undergrad's name to be here (though not impossible, and not all applicants are straight from undergrad, which is why I estimated the number to be <1% of all matriculants).

Yes I know this thread is really old now, but I just thought I'd point out that not all fields consider the last author to be the "senior author." Many psychology researchers will put the PI first no matter what, and last author means "contributed least."

 

[boggvir]

Oh ok, but we were talking about real science.

 

[LoveTheRunner]

oh ok, but we were talking about real science.

+1

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Oh ok, but we were talking about real science.

Good point.

You know it's awfully kind of the editors of Nature and Science to print psychology articles right along side the many articles you've published in those journals 😉

 

[boggvir]

Good point.

You know it's awfully kind of the editors of Nature and Science to print psychology articles right along side the many articles you've published in those journals 😉

Appeal to Authority.

Still not a science though.

 

[Mithril]

.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Appeal to Authority.

Still not a science though.

I think you should retake your logic class.

When an authority is acting within the scope of their expertise, his/her opinion is rightly regarded as valid for inductive reasoning.

Appeals to authority are only fallacious when the authority is acting outside the scope of their expertise (like a med student criticizing psychology), or when their opinions are used in a deductive argument rather than an inductive argument.

You, however, are begging the question, which is always an invalid form.

😛

 

[familyaerospace]

I would say pretty common but it depends on the person and how interested in research or publishing they were.

I had sole authored as an undergrad and I knew many UGs who were first authors, but then I went to a top 20 school that had a lot of us doing research.

Also, in many fields (not just psychology, I published in several areas) has the last spot reserved for person who contributed least. In many cases, the idea of last author being senior author comes from the idea that advisers don't contribute anything but lab space or possibly a little funding or in extreme cases just their name to help it get accepted. Biggest contributor always ended up with the first author spot.

 

[Isomerase]

BUMP

necrobump to flex your first author pub🤔

 

[DNAJB6]

Pretty uncommon, I know some PhDs that have graduated without any 1st author papers (I know of one who graduated with no pubs just pending ones).

They're going to have problems getting grants and academic jobs.

 

[Medicine-Man]

I have 0 pubs rn but will be applying to MD-PhD programs this cycle. Trying to get some insight rn

extremely uncommon

 

[deleted1025488]

I have 0 pubs rn but will be applying to MD-PhD programs this cycle. Trying to get some insight rn

I go to an undergrad that is as research focused as you can get, with as neurotic premeds as you can get, pretty much no one has a first author pub in a reputable journal by their junior year. I know a few but they got the manuscripts done over covid, remotely, analyzing patient data for clinical research, and got first-authored. Everyone else is just hoping to get credited in some wet lab. IDT you can expect much from people focused on volunteering, clinical stuff, etc. unless they don't care. If you were in a wet-lab you probably got smoked during COVID and had to do lit reviews or modeling.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Publications may give bigger advantage for MD-PhD candidates than MD. Adcoms know publishing a paper is not in your hands but a very strong LOR from PI may be a substitute for publications. My n=1 kid is doing research since freshman fall semester but no publication due to expanded research scope and technical issues but was asked about the status and ETA in research heavy schools interviews (and have couple of As).

 

[DoctorWhere]

Edit: I did a quick google search to see if I could find any easily accessible statistics but did not find much. Also, clinical/case study publications generally take less time than basic research publications; this is all field/niche-dependent.

 

[deleted1025488]

Edit: I did a quick google search to see if I could find any easily accessible statistics but did not find much. Also, clinical/case study publications generally take less time than basic research publications; this is all field/niche-dependent.

Yeah agreed. Wonder if any adcom would be willing to shed some light on how a first author clinical pub is compared to a basic science pub. @LizzyM

 

[LizzyM]

I've never seen it broken down and I don't pay it much attention. Any authorship is relatively rare and puts you at the top of the heap among MD applicants in the domain of "research".

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

I've never seen it broken down and I don't pay it much attention. Any authorship is relatively rare and puts you at the top of the heap among MD applicants in the domain of "research".

How are publications submitted to undergraduate/ medical school journals viewed by adcoms? Should this still be listed as a publication and would it still hold value compared to others without any publications?

 

[JimKimSlim]

Congrats on your publication! I was research heavy like you, but I realized the following this application year.

Research is nice to have, especially because it’s something you can talk about during interview. But clinical experience and your academic stats (GPA + MCAT) weigh heavier than research. After all, you’re applying to med school, not graduate school (unless MSTP).

 

[LizzyM]

How are publications submitted to undergraduate/ medical school journals viewed by adcoms? Should this still be listed as a publication and would it still hold value compared to others without any publications?

Is it indexed in PubMed? If published in something like the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine, I'd give it respect. Really, if you have something tagged publication, you have maxed out the "research" expectations unless your publication is in US Weekly,

 

[pBar]

I have 0 pubs rn but will be applying to MD-PhD programs this cycle. Trying to get some insight rn

The rate will probably be a little higher among MSTP cohorts compared to general admitted medical students. However I don't suspect it to be that high. I believe in my cohort of 13, only 1 or 2 of us entered with a first author publication.