How competative is urology?

[Gluconeogenesis]

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compared to say, ophthalmology, ortho, or cardiology?

 

[colbgw02]

Very competative [sic].

IMO, it's probably slightly less competitive than ophthalmology or orthopaedics, but only by a tiny amount.

Cardiology is a subspecialty of internal medicine, so there isn't much utility in comparing it to the others you listed.

 

[M3goingon4]

looking at stats, it's more competitive than neurosurgery, and i think slightly moreso than ortho too. either way, its on par with ortho, ENT, etc.

 

[Miami_med]

I heard something about the devil and your first born, but I'm not sure that I believe it.

 

[Law2Doc]

compared to say, ophthalmology, ortho, or cardiology?

Agree with the prior poster -- Cards doesn't go with the other two.

As for urology, it goes up and down. It's currently very competitive but I know an offshore grad (not a superstar) who matched into it a few years back so it apparently fluctuates.

 

[deleted29780]

It's currently very competitive but I know an offshore grad (not a superstar) who matched into it a few years back so it apparently fluctuates.

its pretty interesting this system of downplaying educational systems other than the american system.

 

[MR1]

its pretty interesting this system of downplaying educational systems other than the american system.

I don't think he was downplaying the medical systems outside the U.S. but it is just fact, IMG's have a much harder time getting into US residencies.

 

[Miami_med]

its pretty interesting this system of downplaying educational systems other than the american system.

It's okay, all of the other nations do it to our grads if they apply to foreign residencies. Actually, I think we're the most welcoming of all industrialized nations, as we still fill ~20% of our spots every year with FMGs.

 

[Winged Scapula]

its pretty interesting this system of downplaying educational systems other than the american system.

Since you are new here, I will introduce you the curious American tendency of xenophobia and insistence on the superiority of any and everything American, regardless of evidence otherwise.

Tends to happen less with age and more foreign travel, but most Americans, including those on SDN, are woefully ignorant of things outside our borders...trouble is they don't realize it!

But, I agree with the OP above, the comment about the off-shore grad was not meant to derogate his education but rather a very cogent and truthful response about the competitiveness of urology and the stigma against foreign grads, especially Caribbean grads (who are not Caribbean natives), in US graduate medical education.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't think he was downplaying the medical systems outside the U.S. but it is just fact, IMG's have a much harder time getting into US residencies.

I wasn't actually talking about IMGs per se or putting the US system up on a pedestal. There is a cottage industry of offshore med schools set up as "second chance" schools for AMERICAN nationals located in the nearby islands to which I was referring, and to which most people tend to mean when they say "offshore". Those caribbean med students historically have a more difficult time getting competitive US residencies when they return to the states. My comment has nothing to do with non-Americans training in their nation of origin, most of whom will not seek US residencies anyhow. I'm sure many systems are quite good.

 

[jdh71]

It's a numbers game. I think urology has only around 200 spots - someone more motivated than myself can check it for accuracy - but, regardless, when you have only a few spots, obviously not everyone who wants and applies will find a spot. Almost all people who apply are superstars because most schools are smart and encourage people without a chance to go into a specialty where they may actually have some choice and control in the process. There are always outliers . . . although, let you say have a Vanderbilt Grad, 250/250, AOA, all honors all classes, first author on urology research and next you have a North Dakota State grad, 220/230, grades average to better than average, some honors, no research but one case report. Chances are both applicants would make great urologists, but if we have a $100 bet going, you tell me who you want your money on. Why? Answer that question and you'll get it.

Honestly, don't worry about it so much. Just do your best whenever you have a chance to and then you'll options when the time comes.

 

[notdeadyet]

Since you are new here, I will introduce you the curious American tendency of xenophobia and insistence on the superiority of any and everything American, regardless of evidence otherwise.

Akuffo doesn't post with as much frequency as SDN frequent flyers, but has been posting for about four years.

Tends to happen less with age and more foreign travel, but most Americans, including those on SDN, are woefully ignorant of things outside our borders...trouble is they don't realize it!

Actually with age and foreign travel also usually comes the realization that xenophobia and chest-beating are hardly unique to America. In fact, it's more common than not. It's louder to our ears because we're American, but live in other countries for a few years and you'll see lots of it in heavy doses just about anywhere you go.

Ours just has more media and a heavy footed military.

 

[RxnMan]

its pretty interesting this system of downplaying educational systems other than the american system.

Most med schools, and all residencies receive US tax payer dollars, so it's reasonable that both favor folks from here.

...As for urology, it goes up and down...

Isn't that the point of urology? For it to go up and down?

 

[Law2Doc]

Isn't that the point of urology? For it to go up and down?

Most patients probably are just as concerned with the "in and out", I suspect.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Akuffo doesn't post with as much frequency as SDN frequent flyers, but has been posting for about four years.

Oops, my bad. You are most certainly correct.

Actually with age and foreign travel also usually comes the realization that xenophobia and chest-beating are hardly unique to America. In fact, it's more common than not. It's louder to our ears because we're American, but live in other countries for a few years and you'll see lots of it in heavy doses just about anywhere you go.

Ours just has more media and a heavy footed military.

I'm well aware of that, but as you noted, I think Americans are just, well "uglier" about it.

 

[megadon]

I'm well aware of that, but as you noted, I think Americans are just, well "uglier" about it.

Apparantly you've never been to France, but that doesn't cover your military comment.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm well aware of that, but as you noted, I think Americans are just, well "uglier" about it.

Agreed. Remember Teddy Roosevelt's "Speak softly and carry a big stick"? We've got the big stick part down but never got the hang of the speak softly part. We're one of the loudest cultures I know of.

I think I remember reading that Roosevelt stole the quote from a an African proverb. There's a ironic lesson in there somewhere...

 

[Law2Doc]

Agreed. Remember Teddy Roosevelt's "Speak softly and carry a big stick"? We've got the big stick part down but never got the hang of the speak softly part. We're one of the loudest cultures I know of.

I think I remember reading that Roosevelt stole the quote from a an African proverb. There's a ironic lesson in there somewhere...

If the stick is big enough it doesn't matter what you say or who you steal your proverbs from. (I guess all this big stick discussion is arguably still a urology discussion).

 

[notdeadyet]

If the stick is big enough it doesn't matter what you say or who you steal your proverbs from.

Thanks, Law2Doc. Those were exactly the dots I was trying to connect...

 

[Critical Mass]

As for urology, it goes up and down.

That's lessen one as a urologist. Sometimes you get patients for whom it goes down and just stays down. That's when they come to see you. 😀

 

[Law2Doc]

That's lessen one as a urologist. Sometimes you get patients for whom it goes down and just stays down. That's when they come to see you. 😀

There are also a lot of patients where it goes up and stays up -- I think they dealt with that on a Grey's Anatomy a while back.

 

[RxnMan]

There are also a lot of patients where it goes up and stays up...

Priapism Lawsuit

 

[peanutbutterman]

Apparantly you've never been to France, but that doesn't cover your military comment.

yeah and apparantly they've never been anywhere else like Russia or Ukraine where they are definitely as loud if not louder about how great they are in comparison to everyone else.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Apparantly you've never been to France, but that doesn't cover your military comment.

Looks like you messed up the quote function - the military quote is from someone else.

And as an American of French descent I am quite aware of how rude and ethnocentric my forebears can be...it may rank up there with the Americans.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Agreed. Remember Teddy Roosevelt's "Speak softly and carry a big stick"? We've got the big stick part down but never got the hang of the speak softly part. We're one of the loudest cultures I know of.

I think I remember reading that Roosevelt stole the quote from a an African proverb. There's a ironic lesson in there somewhere...

You can almost always pick the Americans out in a crowd when traveling - they are often the loudest. The Aussies used to comment about it all the time...and they're a pretty rowdy bunch themselves.

 

[iwantneurosurg]

non-american grads tend not to do as well on licensing exams compared to americans. this may have to do with the fact that when they take them, theyre years and years out of medical school. perhaps.

others say behavioral science/english. behavioral science isnt really a big enough part to affect scores by that much, and if your english is so bad that you can't understand the questions, it speaks dismally of your ability to fare in the united states dealing with primarily english speaking patients

now some hippie is going to bring up all the non-english speakers, ie spanish, but remember your majority is english, and hiring a doctor who can't handle the majority and just the minority is just idiotic

anyway these low scores put a stigma on foreign docs. also the fact that american med students are worked quite hard during M3+4, whereas in other places, ie france, they rarely work more than 50hrs a week usually not even 40. putting them in a brutal 80 hr residency im not sure theyll make it.

are they inferior to us? there are too many infiltrating factors to really give a definitive answer, but one can clearly see why such a stigma exists. is it unfair? absolutely. but when you look at caribbean students struggling to get in, their low boards, etc. is it a possibility? sure. am i a question talker? yes, yes i am.

as a sidenote, urology isnt that cyclic, its pretty competitive regardless, and when you apply, expect it to be up there. i wish i could end this post about being a prick, but urologists, though as crass as the GI's, are anything but pricks. eh well.