How competitive is a 222?

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jellygreen2001

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Hi everyone,

just got my scores back and ended up with a 222, Is that a somewhat competive score or not? I know about 230 is pretty good but not sure what to make of my score. I was kind of interested in dermatology. Should I even continue trying to get into derm with a score like that or should I start seriously considering other fields.

Thanks in advance
 
222 is the average for this year and last year.
 
jellygreen2001 said:
Hi everyone,

just got my scores back and ended up with a 222, Is that a somewhat competive score or not? I know about 230 is pretty good but not sure what to make of my score. I was kind of interested in dermatology. Should I even continue trying to get into derm with a score like that or should I start seriously considering other fields.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

According to the NRMP 2007 'Charting Outcomes' paper, derm is the second most competitive specialty in medicine behind integrated plastics, with a 240 median Step I score for matched applicants (median for unmatched is 228). Nearly half are AOA, and nearly all have a ton of research stuff.
 
jellygreen2001 said:
Hi everyone,

just got my scores back and ended up with a 222, Is that a somewhat competive score or not? I know about 230 is pretty good but not sure what to make of my score. I was kind of interested in dermatology. Should I even continue trying to get into derm with a score like that or should I start seriously considering other fields.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

You're probably gonna have a hard time landing that derm residency; however, you've still got plenty of possibilties with that score.
 
If you really want derm, that's something you need to figure out ASAP. 222 is not a great score for derm, but I wouldn't say you wouldn't be able to match. If you want derm, you're going to need the rest of your app to be stellar. You should get involved in research ASAP (perhaps take a year off to do some meaningful stuff) and make sure your grades are excellent, as well as trying to ace Step 2. If that sounds like too much work, then you might consider other fields as well.
 
sorry you're going to have to go carrib--

o crud this is allopathic
 
Tic said:
According to the NRMP 2007 'Charting Outcomes' paper, derm is the second most competitive specialty in medicine
Click to expand...

No, it means that derm is the second most competitive specialty in the normal Match. Ophthalmology and Neurosurgery both matched through SFmatch in 2007...which I'm sure you knew, it just bugs me when people make it sound as if all things occur through NRMP...
 
IHeartNerds said:
No, it means that derm is the second most competitive specialty in the normal Match. Ophthalmology and Neurosurgery both matched through SFmatch in 2007...which I'm sure you knew, it just bugs me when people make it sound as if all things occur through NRMP...
Click to expand...

The SF match specialties were less competitive than derm in 2007 (strictly by StepI numbers), NS and ophtho being at 236 and 232 respectively.
 
IHeartNerds said:
No, it means that derm is the second most competitive specialty in the normal Match. Ophthalmology and Neurosurgery both matched through SFmatch in 2007...which I'm sure you knew, it just bugs me when people make it sound as if all things occur through NRMP...
Click to expand...
And yet, both of those specialties are less competitive than derm. Don't be butthurt that your desired specialty is less competitive.
 
It can be competitive......for FAMILY MEDICINE. 🙂
 
Blesbok said:
And yet, both of those specialties are less competitive than derm. Don't be butthurt that your desired specialty is less competitive.
Click to expand...

how will i ever live, knowing that i gave up the 40 hour workweek for the ability to take care of, you know, sick people?

also, i don't think the phrase "butthurt" is going to get you into that coveted derm residency.
 
jellygreen2001 said:
Hi everyone,

just got my scores back and ended up with a 222, Is that a somewhat competive score or not? I know about 230 is pretty good but not sure what to make of my score. I was kind of interested in dermatology. Should I even continue trying to get into derm with a score like that or should I start seriously considering other fields.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

"Kind of interested" doesn't really sound like you are excited about it. Ignoring the score, what do you see yourself doing for the next 40 years? If it's really derm then you'll have to do some cool research, interview at a ton of programs, and have a good back-up, but it's not inconceivable. If you just like the lifestyle, then I'd suggest looking at what other lifestyle options you can more realistically land with a 222 and start talking to folks.
 
IHeartNerds said:
how will i ever live, knowing that i gave up the 40 hour workweek for the ability to take care of, you know, sick people?

also, i don't think the phrase "butthurt" is going to get you into that coveted derm residency.
Click to expand...

Dermatologists don't take care of sick people? Commenting on the necessity (or uselessness as you may see it) of different medical specialties is dangerous grounds. People are going to get butt hurt.
 
IHeartNerds said:
how will i ever live, knowing that i gave up the 40 hour workweek for the ability to take care of, you know, sick people?

also, i don't think the phrase "butthurt" is going to get you into that coveted derm residency.
Click to expand...

wherethisthreadgoing.jpg
 
What is a competitive score for anesthesiology?

Also, is there anywhere I can find the median scores for different types of specialty???

Thanks!
 
inkare said:
Wow, Anesthesiology is almost a garaunteed match, despite being a ROAD specialty ! Only about 6% of the applicants didn't match according to the data. Also, the median was a 220, which is around the national average. Why is it that Anesthesiology isn't that competitive ?
Click to expand...

Long hours.
 
anesthesiology is cyclic regarding need/ excess (and thus income per hour worked) and because a lot of people brush it off as boring. A lot of people think it involves just sitting on the other side of the drape doing sudoku.
 
inkare said:
Wow, Anesthesiology is almost a garaunteed match, despite being a ROAD specialty ! Only about 6% of the applicants didn't match according to the data. Also, the median was a 220, which is around the national average. Why is it that Anesthesiology isn't that competitive ?
Click to expand...

indo said:
anesthesiology is cyclic regarding need/ excess (and thus income per hour worked) and because a lot of people brush it off as boring. A lot of people think it involves just sitting on the other side of the drape doing sudoku.
Click to expand...

There is also the new development of CRNA's- who do many of the procedures that an anesthesiologist physician would. Understandably, from an economical standpoint, institutions will tend towards hiring more CRNA's, while limiting the number of MD/DO Anesthesiologist as attendings on staff (presence of a physician is a requirement in most institutions). This limits costs significantly.
 
Last edited:
IHeartNerds said:
how will i ever live, knowing that i gave up the 40 hour workweek for the ability to take care of, you know, sick people?

also, i don't think the phrase "butthurt" is going to get you into that coveted derm residency.
Click to expand...
I have no interest in derm, but me continuing to insult you is going to have a lot less effect on my residency than you continuing to insult other fields of medicine.
 
inkare said:
Wow, Anesthesiology is almost a garaunteed match, despite being a ROAD specialty ! Only about 6% of the applicants didn't match according to the data. Also, the median was a 220, which is around the national average. Why is it that Anesthesiology isn't that competitive ?
Click to expand...

Don't forget that these numbers always reflect some self-selection. Very few people with 190 Step I scores are going to put derm residencies on their Match lists (probably because they won't get interviews).
 
Blesbok said:
I have no interest in derm, but me continuing to insult you is going to have a lot less effect on my residency than you continuing to insult other fields of medicine.
Click to expand...

QFT1.jpg
 
DickyV said:
Don't forget that these numbers always reflect some self-selection. Very few people with 190 Step I scores are going to put derm residencies on their Match lists (probably because they won't get interviews).
Click to expand...

This is a key point.

Be extremely wary of interpreting numbers that just don't seem right. The numbers in Charting Outcomes are based on those individuals who submitted a rank list. You need to have interviewed at at least one place to submit a rank list with a derm program on it. You need to be pretty ****ing phenomenal in all other areas or have some sort of ace in the hole to get interviews with stats far below the mean for a competitive specialty. Not to mention, as stated already, these individuals have self-selected themselves out already.

So to summarize:
Low-end outliers reported by Charting Outcomes were confident enough to apply with subpar scores where others were not, and had something remarkable about them to get them interviews where others did not. They further clearly had personalities (and thus interviews) that got them a decent spot on a program or two's rank list, as most programs only have a spot or two and I doubt many have to go too far down.

At least that is my interpretation; I admit I am no expert.
 
Good post above.

People need to remember the heavy self-selection bias that occurs when people apply for residency programs. Saying something like "90% of applicants match into x specialty so it must not be competitive" is wrong if the field is so tough that only the most-qualified applicants even dare apply.
 
DickyV said:
Don't forget that these numbers always reflect some self-selection. Very few people with 190 Step I scores are going to put derm residencies on their Match lists (probably because they won't get interviews).
Click to expand...

Yes, agreed with what you said about self selection for tough specialties. No one dares apply to derm if they don't think they have a decent chance.

Here we were talking about anesthesiology, where the median was about the national average (not a particularly hard specialty in terms of step 1). That means the average student has a decent shot at anesthesiology, a specialty considered to be very hard (a ROAD specialty). I was somewhat surprized, because I always thought anesthesiology was one of the really hard ones to get into.
 
is G surg becoming more competitive. was having a discussion with a classmate that said its getting to be that a 230 is the avg, any truth to this
 
beefballs said:
is G surg becoming more competitive. was having a discussion with a classmate that said its getting to be that a 230 is the avg, any truth to this
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what the average is (you could look up the NRMP match data for this info), but it's definitely getting to be more competitive than it used to be, most likely because the 80 hour work week mandate is attracting some students who otherwise would have chosen more lifestyle-friendly specialties.

Of course, that being said, it still has one of the poorer lifestyles. But that's besides the point.
 
thats from 2007 charting outcomes, my question was did it get tougher in 08.

Thanks Dakota for your keen insight and astute analysis
 
Dakota said:
I do my best.

An 8 point swing, while possible, would be a lot for any specialty for just one year, epecially one as large as general surgery. Guess we'll find out when the 2008 outcomes comes out.
Click to expand...

Is there a 2008 Outcomes report coming out, and if so when?
 
According to the Charting Outcomes, a 222 being in the range of "221-230" should allow you to have a good chance at matching in most specialties based on the stats, except for the 3-4 most highly competitive ones on the list. You would more often than not be OK for diag rads on down.
 
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