How competitive is academic IM residency?

[AORiverContra]

Say hypothetically, academic IM were a separate specialty in match. How competitive would it be compared to other specialties and to IM in general?

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[gutonc]

It would probably live about where it currently does in the "competitiveness" pantheon. Even "academic" IM programs span a huge breadth of program size and "quality".

 

[throwaway1000000]

Say hypothetically, academic IM were a separate specialty in match. How competitive would it be compared to other specialties and to IM in general?

Pretty competitive. The top programs are incredibly competitive if you are not from a top school. For comparison, I have decent stats and can likely match into any speciality. But coming from a low-tier MD without AOA, I am highly doubtful if I can match into the top 15 or top 20 programs. I think AOA plays a huge role in the top IM programs.
Even the upper mid-tier IM programs are fairly competitive. Indiana step 1 avg is 238 according to their website. Utah which is another mid-tie program has an avg step 1 of 245 for their recent class if I remember correctly. For comparison, 2018 charting outcomes showed 245 as the avg score for neurosurgery.

 

[Euxox]

Utah which is another mid-tie program has an avg step 1 of 245 for their recent class if I remember correctly. For comparison, 2018 charting outcomes showed 245 as the avg score for neurosurgery.

I'm assuming you're getting those numbers from FREIDA. I don't know where FREIDA numbers come from, but they are all complete BS. If you go by FREIDA, there are community IM programs that had to participate in SOAP that have higher USMLE averages than some top tier Ortho programs. Yeah, right.

The top 20 - 30 IM programs or so are pretty competitive and especially the top 5 or so can be as competitive as Ortho/ENT/Derm. But if your goal is to match to *any* academic IM program and you are applying as a US senior, all you need is to apply broadly and not have any red flags. No step failures, no course failures, no lukewarm letters of rec, and so on.

 

[Dwan]

I'm assuming you're getting those numbers from FREIDA. I don't know where FREIDA numbers come from, but they are all complete BS. If you go by FREIDA, there are community IM programs that had to participate in SOAP that have higher USMLE averages than some top tier Ortho programs. Yeah, right.

The top 20 - 30 IM programs or so are pretty competitive and especially the top 5 or so can be as competitive as Ortho/ENT/Derm. But if your goal is to match to *any* academic IM program and you are applying as a US senior, all you need is to apply broadly and not have any red flags. No step failures, no course failures, no lukewarm letters of rec, and so on.

The numbers are straight from Utah's site for their current intern class (243/257, Match Day 2019 Results - | University of Utah). BU also cites 243/254 for their intern class average (Apply | Internal Medicine Residency Program). This is consistent with the quality of residents I know attending those programs from a "normal" med school. Top places like UCLA claimed a >250 step average when I interviewed there, NW cites 247/258 for their recent class, but 70% are AOA and 54% from top schools. The upper mid-tier programs are getting competitive, top places are just as competitive as dermatology/ortho/etc, but you are correct that there is huge variability among "academic" program competitiveness and you can match university programs with below average steps, particularly in less-desirable locations.

 

[throwaway1000000]

I'm assuming you're getting those numbers from FREIDA. I don't know where FREIDA numbers come from, but they are all complete BS. If you go by FREIDA, there are community IM programs that had to participate in SOAP that have higher USMLE averages than some top tier Ortho programs. Yeah, right.

The top 20 - 30 IM programs or so are pretty competitive and especially the top 5 or so can be as competitive as Ortho/ENT/Derm. But if your goal is to match to *any* academic IM program and you are applying as a US senior, all you need is to apply broadly and not have any red flags. No step failures, no course failures, no lukewarm letters of rec, and so on.

No it is from their website. It is 243 not 245 though.
I think without AOA and from low-rank medical school, getting into top 25 IM programs is tougher than getting into neurosurgery, urology and optho. I am not sure how competitive ortho, derm, IR, plastics, rad/onc, ENT are , so can't speak for those.
Of course, it is not a direct comparison because I am comparing top programs with any caliber programs in those specialities but my point is top of the line academic IM is extremely competitive.
Yes, getting into any academic IM program is easy. But there is also that much difference between different academic IM programs.

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

I thought all residencies are “academic”?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I thought all residencies are “academic”?

I think they mean University instead of Community programs.

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

I think they mean University instead of Community programs.

That’s what I figured but I don’t even think that’s what the OP meant based on replies. The question is more like how competitive are the top research heavy IM programs?

 

[jhamaican]

At the top (i.e. UCSF, Harvard, Stanford etc...), as competitive as anything including integrated plastics, derm etc..

But it drops off sharply after the peak of the ivory castle...

Not hard to get into just a normal academic affiliated university IM program...

 

[NucleusO]

Does one need to honor their core medicine rotation to be considered for top 20 programs? At my school our med rotation is only 4 weeks long and I missed honoring by one point, which will be mentioned in my MSPE (school doesn't give High Pass grades). I have junior AOA and I hit the average for Step 1 score for top programs. Just wondering if I closed any doors by having a bad test day. :/

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Does one need to honor their core medicine rotation to be considered for top 20 programs? At my school our med rotation is only 4 weeks long and I missed honoring by one point, which will be mentioned in my MSPE (school doesn't give High Pass grades). I have junior AOA and I hit the average for Step 1 score for top programs. Just wondering if I closed any doors by having a bad test day. :/

You don't need to but consider that most of your competition did.

AOA, being an MD-PhD or otherwise having a strong research background, coming from a top 20 med school also help.

 

[NucleusO]

You don't need to but consider that most of your competition did.

AOA, being an MD-PhD or otherwise having a strong research background, coming from a top 20 med school also help.

Do you think that PDs would take into consideration the length of my medicine clerkship at my school and read the comments in my MSPE?

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Does one need to honor their core medicine rotation to be considered for top 20 programs? At my school our med rotation is only 4 weeks long and I missed honoring by one point, which will be mentioned in my MSPE (school doesn't give High Pass grades). I have junior AOA and I hit the average for Step 1 score for top programs. Just wondering if I closed any doors by having a bad test day. :/

Sometimes this can lead to being screened out. I was screened out at many med peds programs because I got H in medicine but HP in peds. It's well worth getting your own program's PD or some other influential person to go to bat for you and send emails or make phone calls so they go beyond the screening and actually take a look at your application as a whole.