how competitive is endodontics?

[AUG2UAG]

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To get back on topic, I think endo will not get less competitive in the near future. If re-treatments and apico are eliminated from the world there will still be enough referring GPs that hate endo, or don't have scopes to do tough canals.

i just noticed this-- thanks for your input!

 

[AUG2UAG]

To get back on topic, I think endo will not get less competitive in the near future. If re-treatments and apico are eliminated from the world there will still be enough referring GPs that hate endo, or don't have scopes to do tough canals.

i just noticed this-- thanks for your input!

 

[J2AZ]

Endo will survive for one reason alone...cosmetic dentistry. With so much tooth structure being removed these days there are a many teeth out there that are doomed for rct.

 

[dexadental]

So is orthodontics as competitive as endodontics?
I had an appointment yesterday for a "post and core" treatment of a root canal with a temporary filling and was discussing with the hygenist about going to dental school this fall. She asked me if I wanted to specialize and I told her, endo probably...and she said she worked in an endo office and it is non stop busy, tiring, and that many of the doctors are all on call for emergencies. Is this the case? I've been keeping an open mind between endo, ortho, and perio...and she basically told me she worked in the others and the doctors worked in a much more laid back setting. Anyone have any experience with how busy an endodontist usually is?

 

[SuperTrooper]

So is orthodontics as competitive as endodontics?
I had an appointment yesterday for a "post and core" treatment of a root canal with a temporary filling and was discussing with the hygenist about going to dental school this fall. She asked me if I wanted to specialize and I told her, endo probably...and she said she worked in an endo office and it is non stop busy, tiring, and that many of the doctors are all on call for emergencies. Is this the case? I've been keeping an open mind between endo, ortho, and perio...and she basically told me she worked in the others and the doctors worked in a much more laid back setting. Anyone have any experience with how busy an endodontist usually is?

It's probably as busy as you want it to be.

But i've heard that endodontists can burn out pretty fast if they work too hard right out of their residency. Moreso than any other specialty.

 

[KY2007]

It's probably as busy as you want it to be.

But i've heard that endodontists can burn out pretty fast if they work too hard right out of their residency. Moreso than any other specialty.

I've only finished one anterior and four molars so far and I am already burnt out. When dental school is over no more endo ever.

 

[the_pulp]

endo i believe is getting on the downhill now... it was as it's peak for the past couple of years..not anymore..i heard from a friend that at UCONN, there were 2 spots left to be filled with no takers and eventually they filled in with mediocre applicants. (ps: dont quote me on that one)
with GP'susing rotary and implants being snapped on left and right, there will not be that many oppurtunities for retreatments and complex endo's to keep the endodontist that busy..endo will not die..but it will just join perio...
my endodontist buddy is now taking courses on planning and placing implants..and quotes that the endo leaders all over the country are urging them (in almost every issue of J. Endo) to catch up with the implant boat!
ps: yeah my buddy as of now does make about 175 K per year 😛

your friend was incorrect.

 

[the_pulp]

I assume by endo sx you mean surgery and not some form of weird dental perversion.

I think the days of apical surgery are all but dead. In most cities there are only 1 or 2 endos who actually mess with apical surgery and even then they don't do much. The residents at my school only get to do a couple during their time here.

If a patient is going to be having surgery, it might as well be something with a decent prognosis -- like an implant. By the time you are resorting to apico there aren't many years left for that tooth. There is no way I would opt for apical surgery on myself or family members. Pull that sucker out and obturate with titanium.

apico's if done correctly have a very high success rate.

Refer to the endodontist. He has a better understanding of success rates of apico vs implants than you do. If that tooth has a low success rate for an apico, he will refer for an implant.

This is better than just assuming that an implant has a 99.999987% success rate, and skipping all other procedures.

While I think endodontists have every right to learn how to place implants in their residency, I see no need to place implants as an endodontist. It is simply not worth my time.

 

[the_pulp]

So is orthodontics as competitive as endodontics?
I had an appointment yesterday for a "post and core" treatment of a root canal with a temporary filling and was discussing with the hygenist about going to dental school this fall. She asked me if I wanted to specialize and I told her, endo probably...and she said she worked in an endo office and it is non stop busy, tiring, and that many of the doctors are all on call for emergencies. Is this the case? I've been keeping an open mind between endo, ortho, and perio...and she basically told me she worked in the others and the doctors worked in a much more laid back setting. Anyone have any experience with how busy an endodontist usually is?

endodontists typically see anywhere from 6-12 patients a day.
orthodontists typically see anywhere from 40-100 patients a day.

some say ortho is "more relaxed". I am in endo...and endo is not relaxed nor is it too stressful. I cant speak for ortho (my friend is an orthodontist and she says the kids parents drive her nuts with the amount of stress they put on her).

 

[the_pulp]

endo placing implants is equivalent to me (OMS) uprighting impacted third molars, endodontically treating them, followed by crown lengthening and then scraping the calculus off the distal aspect...and by scraping i meant performing a cosmetic surgical debridement of the calculus.

No. Endodontic surgery can be compared to implant surgery.
OMF surgery cannot be compared to endodontic treatment.

Given that you are not that bright, please let me explain.
You see, if you endodontically treat a tooth (as any specialist other than an endodontist), you are breaking a few ADA and other legal codes (depending on your state). Endodontics is a recognized specialty. Implantology is not a speciality. Any blind dentist and his dog can place implants. As an endodontist i can advertise on my business card as : "practice limited to endodontics, microsurgery and implants"....

In general endodontic surgery is more surgically demanding than implant surgery. you should try doing a palatal apico and see how that compares to placing an implant. Therefore, it is not that insane to consider an endodontist placing implants. Infact a few endodontic programs (one of which is ours) do place implants.

For example, it is pointless to compare:
Futurama to the Challenger Space Shuttle
Saving Private Ryan to an iMac
Tomato soup to the Latin language
Fish to skyscrapers

But we can easily compare:
Endodontic Surgery to Implant surgery
BMWs to Toyotas
PS3s to XBox 360s
Your brain to a wet sponge

 

[Apico]

where did you do your residency?

 

[scalpel2008]

No. Endodontic surgery can be compared to implant surgery.
OMF surgery cannot be compared to endodontic treatment.

Given that you are not that bright, please let me explain.
You see, if you endodontically treat a tooth (as any specialist other than an endodontist), you are breaking a few ADA and other legal codes (depending on your state). Endodontics is a recognized specialty. Implantology is not a speciality. Any blind dentist and his dog can place implants. As an endodontist i can advertise on my business card as : "practice limited to endodontics, microsurgery and implants"....

In general endodontic surgery is more surgically demanding than implant surgery. you should try doing a palatal apico and see how that compares to placing an implant. Therefore, it is not that insane to consider an endodontist placing implants. Infact a few endodontic programs (one of which is ours) do place implants.

For example, it is pointless to compare:
Futurama to the Challenger Space Shuttle
Saving Private Ryan to an iMac
Tomato soup to the Latin language
Fish to skyscrapers

But we can easily compare:
Endodontic Surgery to Implant surgery
BMWs to Toyotas
PS3s to XBox 360s
Your brain to a wet sponge

if you are done complaining and ranting, let me explain something. My point was that it is ironic for an endodontist to place implants as it is ironic for an OMS to salvage a third molar. Last time I checked, titanium doesn't have a pulp chamber and canals. Get it? Nobody is talking about the legality of performing procedures. I'm quite well versed in that, but thanks for the level 101 course. I agree that implants are easy to place, if you cherry pick the easy ones. Obviously every endodontist is incapable of handling the complications and cases that require reconstruction (sinus lifts, atrophic arches, IA nerve issues, multiple implant recons, etc). If you claim implantology, you should be able to do more than stick in a molar screw. So Mr.Pulp, how many have you placed on your own? We place about 400 resident implants/year.

PS...PS3 will never come out with Halo3 rendering it useless.
PPS.... you made the "SAT style" analogy saying endo:implants as BMWs:Toyota. Is that because BMWs break down waaaay more than Toyotas? I agree.

 

[ItsGavinC]

PS...PS3 will never come out with Halo3 rendering it useless.
PPS.... you made the "SAT style" analogy saying endo:implants as BMWs:Toyota. Is that because BMWs break down waaaay more than Toyotas? I agree.

I agree on both accounts.

 

[the_pulp]

if you are done complaining and ranting, let me explain something. My point was that it is ironic for an endodontist to place implants as it is ironic for an OMS to salvage a third molar. Last time I checked, titanium doesn't have a pulp chamber and canals. Get it? Nobody is talking about the legality of performing procedures. I'm quite well versed in that, but thanks for the level 101 course. I agree that implants are easy to place, if you cherry pick the easy ones. Obviously every endodontist is incapable of handling the complications and cases that require reconstruction (sinus lifts, atrophic arches, IA nerve issues, multiple implant recons, etc). If you claim implantology, you should be able to do more than stick in a molar screw. So Mr.Pulp, how many have you placed on your own? We place about 400 resident implants/year.

PS...PS3 will never come out with Halo3 rendering it useless.
PPS.... you made the "SAT style" analogy saying endo:implants as BMWs:Toyota. Is that because BMWs break down waaaay more than Toyotas? I agree.

Relax buddy.

I have no interest in ever placing an implant in private practice (from what I hear, we make enough money doing RCT's). I am happy that you place 400 implants/year/resident (although your number does seem suspiciously inflated).

I completely disagree with your statement on the PS3. PS3 has blue-ray which = ultra Hi-Def porn (beats Halo anyday).

 

[Apico]

"Infact a few endodontic programs (one of which is ours) do place implants."

the_PULP

Are you at Loma Linda?

 

[jpark9]

interesting...

 

[ItsGavinC]

interesting...

Yeah, interesting when the last post was 25 months ago. Did you have to bump it just to say "interesting"?

 

[Rube]

I'm curious on two counts:
1) new technologies making it more conveniant for a general dentist to perform complex RCT (not randomized clinical trials 😛 )

2) improvements in implant technology driving down prices where the pt. would rather have the compromised tooth extracted, than restored (maybe this latter reasoning isn't so well thought out on my part)

Damn 2 year old thread!