How competitive is Radiology?

[the prodogy]

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So, how competitive is radiology? I'm still a pre-med so I don't know what good STEP scores are and such. So I was wondering in what "percent" of the class do you need to be to have a good shot? How high do you need to be in your class and how high in the STEP do you need to score?

Also, what are the years that follow? How many years of residency?

One last question... Is the lifestyle really as good as they say?

 

[Kitra101]

worry about getting into medical school first. then worry about doing well. after that, you will get a better idea.

 

[Labslave]

So, how competitive is radiology? I'm still a pre-med so I don't know what good STEP scores are and such. So I was wondering in what "percent" of the class do you need to be to have a good shot? How high do you need to be in your class and how high in the STEP do you need to score?

Also, what are the years that follow? How many years of residency?

One last question... Is the lifestyle really as good as they say?

According to your screen name, you'll be able to do whatever you want. 🙄

Seriously though, don't worry about things like this. I know it's hard not to, and in fact I don't necessarily blame you. The entire pre-med culture encourages you to be as neurotic as possible. Just use your (apparently gifted) brain for a second...you don't have a single day of medical school under your belt. How are you supposed to know what you'll be interested in without a lick of experience?

Work hard now to get into med school. Continue this behavior once you're in. You probably won't figure out what you want to do "for sure" until you're in your third year (and even then, most people's minds change from day to day). Best of luck

 

[discontinuebed]

Lifestyle is definitely a poor reason to choose radiology.

 

[hopefulmed]

Lifestyle is definitely a poor reason to choose radiology.

This is complete BS. Lifestyle is one of the main reason people choose radiology, very apparent if you talk to some rad residents. Sure, they have to be able to tolerate the job too. BTW, there's nothing wrong with choosing to do something with a good lifestyle if you're going to be doing it for 30 yrs.

 

[hopefulmed]

So, how competitive is radiology? I'm still a pre-med so I don't know what good STEP scores are and such. So I was wondering in what "percent" of the class do you need to be to have a good shot? How high do you need to be in your class and how high in the STEP do you need to score?

Also, what are the years that follow? How many years of residency?

One last question... Is the lifestyle really as good as they say?

OP,
It may be a little premature to care about this now, but I'll answer your question anyway.

1) Radiology is one of the more competitive specialty to match into, but because there are a lot more spots compared to something like derm or plastics, there are options for those with lower stats. The general stats are available here: http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

2) Residency generally include 1 year of internship + 4 yrs of radiology residency after med school.

3) From my limited knowledge, radiology lifestyle is better than most of the other fields of medicine out there, with the exception of maybe derm. Rad generally work less, and earn more... don't think it's easy money though... It takes a certain personality to sit in front of a computer screen day after day.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

1) Worry about getting into medical school first, which is no easy feat. It'll be at least 4 years before you are applying for residency, and the landscape of medicine may have changed fundamentally in that time

2) Step scores: The USMLE Step system may not even exist by the time you enter medical school (again, change is constant in medicine as in life) but most people try for at least a 230. 240 is pretty competitive Step 1. It is not uncommon to see 250, 260, and 270's at tippy top programs. Radiology tends to focus on Step 1 so Step 2 is not given much weight (unless you want to improve on a Step 1 score)

3) To have a good shot? I'd say most would like top half or top third, however rank isn't the most important criteria.

4) After 4 years of Medical school, you currently complete one year of postgraduate training in a preliminary year (most commonly surgery or medicine) or a transitional year (which is usually preferred by applicants as many can be quite "cush"). After that, most radiology programs are 4 years. The majority of applicants complete a year year fellowship after. However, it may be possible this may be changed at some time in the future. The class graduating medical school will be taking their board certification exams at different points, so it is possible the training may change again in the future.

5) The lifestyle in radiology is better than most fields because hours tend to be pretty set. Mornings tend to start at reasonable hours and you can be done in early afternoon. You tend to have very little obligations if you are not on call. Some radiologists in private practice don't take call and rely on "nighthawk" (google it) or similar companies to cover their overnight reads, while others do it themselves (academics tend to have residents for these things). Regardless, call in radiology CAN be brutal, requiring you to make life or death calls in the middle of the night, like any field in medicine.

Also, what are the years that follow? How many years of residency?

One last question... Is the lifestyle really as good as they say?

 

[discontinuebed]

This is complete BS. Lifestyle is one of the main reason people choose radiology, very apparent if you talk to some rad residents. Sure, they have to be able to tolerate the job too. BTW, there's nothing wrong with choosing to do something with a good lifestyle if you're going to be doing it for 30 yrs.

After a night of radiology call, you'll reconsider if lifestyle is why you're drawn to the field.

 

[hopefulmed]

After a night of radiology call, you'll reconsider if lifestyle is why you're drawn to the field.

worst than a night of call in surgery? medicine? even anesthesia..? Nope

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

worst than a night of call in surgery? medicine? even anesthesia..? Nope

I didn't believe it myself, until a resident who had completed 2 or 3 years of general surgery residency said "Radiology call can be far, far worse than anything I had in my previous residency." Now, admittedly this at a place where call is known to be brutal, but take it for what ti is.

 

[colbgw02]

After a night of radiology call, you'll reconsider if lifestyle is why you're drawn to the field.

worst than a night of call in surgery? medicine? even anesthesia..? Nope

You are so incredibly far off base here. Radiology call is much, much worse than all of those.

 

[discontinuebed]

worst than a night of call in surgery? medicine? even anesthesia..? Nope

Yes. Yes. Yes. And judging from the responses in this post, I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

[Neuronix]

Of course Radiology call is on the order of q7-q14 on most rotations, as opposed to q3-q4.

 

[hopefulmed]

You are so incredibly far off base here. Radiology call is much, much worse than all of those.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And judging from the responses in this post, I'm not the only one who feels that way.

are you both seriously trying to convince me that a radiology residency is tougher than a surgery or medicine residency? I'm not sure if I should get sucked into this ridiculous argument. 🙄 Forget it, I'm moving on.. not worth it.. you win. I hope you survive the Q5-Q7 calls lasting 8-12 hours sitting in one spot with next morning off.

BTW, this is the one thing I noticed on my interview trail. It is embarrassing what radiology residents consider "a lot of work.." It's funny how quickly they forget how much less work they do after intern year.

 

[ScooterBanks]

are you both seriously trying to convince me that a radiology residency is tougher than a surgery or medicine residency? I'm not sure if I should get sucked into this ridiculous argument. 🙄 Forget it, I'm moving on.. not worth it.. you win. I hope you survive the Q5-Q7 calls lasting 8-12 hours sitting in one spot with next morning off.

BTW, this is the one thing I noticed on my interview trail. It is embarrassing what radiology residents consider "a lot of work.." It's funny how quickly they forget how much less work they do after intern year.

You don't have a leg to stand on in this argument because you've never experinced Surgery, Medicine or Radiology call.

The ONLY way Surgery or Medicine is "tougher" is purely by number of hours worked. In every other capacity Radiology is more difficult.

My busiest hour on Medicine call as an intern does not touch the amount of work I do on just an average hour of Radiology call. It's not even close. On top of that Radiology is far more stressful and mentally exhausting.

A surgery or medicine call is filled with hours upon hours of routine and mundane work...note writing, lab values, checking results, answering stupid pages. It's not very relatively mentally challenging. The most difficult part of it is being physically tired. Very rarely throughout the course of your night do "stressful" situations arise in relation to Radiology. You spend a good amount of time simply walking around to different rooms and locations between work.

Radiology call offers no "breaks". Every single study is "stat", with an accurate read expected quickly which will likely be the basis of clinical treatment. Most medicine interns "cap" with admissions at 5. I see 80-100 CT and US cases consecutively for the 10 hours that I'm there, along with answering phone calls, and going over cases already prelimed or dictated with ******ed ER phycians, clinicians, or stupid residents. If ANY patient on ANY service in the entire hospital crashes, chances are it's coming to me in some capacity.

As a Radiology resident, I average around 60 hours/week (50 hour work week with on average a night float 10 hours q7). In those 60 hours, I'm probably working about 55 of them. Medicine and Surgery residents may spend 80 hours/week "at work", but they waste so much time and have so much down time that there is no way they end up "working" more than 60 of them.

Radiology is still a lifestyle specialty in the sense that it offers far more free time than others. It does this because the nature of the work and the system (ie PACS) allows it to be extremely efficient without much down time. The glory days of the 70's, 80's and early 90's with easy work days are long gone. Radiologists work and they work VERY hard. However, they are able to do their work in a much more efficient manner than most other specialties, which leads to better pay and better hours.

 

[fun8stuff]

You don't have a leg to stand on in this argument because you've never experinced Surgery, Medicine or Radiology call.

The ONLY way Surgery or Medicine is "tougher" is purely by number of hours worked. In every other capacity Radiology is more difficult.

My busiest hour on Medicine call as an intern does not touch the amount of work I do on just an average hour of Radiology call. It's not even close. On top of that Radiology is far more stressful and mentally exhausting.

A surgery or medicine call is filled with hours upon hours of routine and mundane work...note writing, lab values, checking results, answering stupid pages. It's not very relatively mentally challenging. The most difficult part of it is being physically tired. Very rarely throughout the course of your night do "stressful" situations arise in relation to Radiology. You spend a good amount of time simply walking around to different rooms and locations between work.

Radiology call offers no "breaks". Every single study is "stat", with an accurate read expected quickly which will likely be the basis of clinical treatment. Most medicine interns "cap" with admissions at 5. I see 80-100 CT and US cases consecutively for the 10 hours that I'm there, along with answering phone calls, and going over cases already prelimed or dictated with ******ed ER phycians, clinicians, or stupid residents. If ANY patient on ANY service in the entire hospital crashes, chances are it's coming to me in some capacity.

As a Radiology resident, I average around 60 hours/week (50 hour work week with on average a night float 10 hours q7). In those 60 hours, I'm probably working about 55 of them. Medicine and Surgery residents may spend 80 hours/week "at work", but they waste so much time and have so much down time that there is no way they end up "working" more than 60 of them.

Radiology is still a lifestyle specialty in the sense that it offers far more free time than others. It does this because the nature of the work and the system (ie PACS) allows it to be extremely efficient without much down time. The glory days of the 70's, 80's and early 90's with easy work days are long gone. Radiologists work and they work VERY hard. However, they are able to do their work in a much more efficient manner than most other specialties, which leads to better pay and better hours.

well i think (hope) i will like radiology call more than medicine/surgery/obgyn call third year and intern year. The thing I hated about those months is that so much of the work was mundane and boring interspersed with a lot of time wasted doing nothing. Then with Surgery you combined that with less sleep and more time standing retracting or suturing over and over. Eventually the Q4 call and lack of sleep drove me nuts and I became miserable. I think if given the choice I would choose something that was mentally demanding over something that was physically demanding and/or time consuming.

 

[Amxcvbcv]

This is complete BS. Lifestyle is one of the main reason people choose radiology, very apparent if you talk to some rad residents. Sure, they have to be able to tolerate the job too. BTW, there's nothing wrong with choosing to do something with a good lifestyle if you're going to be doing it for 30 yrs.

Just because it's a poor basis for the decision doesn't mean people don't do it.

These don't have to be mutually exclusive, but would you rather be in radiology because you enjoy the work or because you enjoy having a regular, predictable schedule?

 

[colbgw02]

are you both seriously trying to convince me that a radiology residency is tougher than a surgery or medicine residency? I'm not sure if I should get sucked into this ridiculous argument. 🙄 Forget it, I'm moving on.. not worth it.. you win. I hope you survive the Q5-Q7 calls lasting 8-12 hours sitting in one spot with next morning off.

BTW, this is the one thing I noticed on my interview trail. It is embarrassing what radiology residents consider "a lot of work.." It's funny how quickly they forget how much less work they do after intern year.

Hahaha. Nice try on the bait and switch there. No one said that radiology residency is tougher than a surgery or medicine residency. We said that radiology call is tougher than either medicine or surgery call. As someone who has done all three, I can say without equivocation that radiology call is the toughest. As you can tell by this thread, I'm not the only person that feels the same way.

You're making a lot of claims about knowing how much work each specialty does for someone that has yet to sign their first prescription. If you're applying for radiology, then why don't you wait until you've done some call before you start acting so sure of yourself. In the meantime, I suggest you defer to the folks who have actually been there and done that.

 

[Studebug]

Of course Radiology call is on the order of q7-q14 on most rotations, as opposed to q3-q4.

Can someone explain the terms q7-q14? 😕

I have seen those in the Frieda descriptions of residency programs and I do not know how to interpret that information.

 

[UCLAstudent]

Can someone explain the terms q7-q14? 😕

I have seen those in the Frieda descriptions of residency programs and I do not know how to interpret that information.

Taking call every 7 to 14 days.

 

[hopefulmed]

Hahaha. Nice try on the bait and switch there. No one said that radiology residency is tougher than a surgery or medicine residency. We said that radiology call is tougher than either medicine or surgery call. As someone who has done all three, I can say without equivocation that radiology call is the toughest. As you can tell by this thread, I'm not the only person that feels the same way.

You're making a lot of claims about knowing how much work each specialty does for someone that has yet to sign their first prescription. If you're applying for radiology, then why don't you wait until you've done some call before you start acting so sure of yourself. In the meantime, I suggest you defer to the folks who have actually been there and done that.

Bait and switch? I was trying to address the original point in which other poster suggested radiology is not a lifestyle field and tougher.

After a night of radiology call, you'll reconsider if lifestyle is why you're drawn to the field.

Yes, I am applying to radiology. I also interviewed for both prelim medicine and surgery year. And while I do not have the vast experience that you do, my observations for the past two years as well as talking to multiple residents on the interview trail certaintly count for something. The typical radiology's resident schedule that I run across are generally coming in at 8, at least an hour of lecture at noon, leave at 3-5. Call is Q6-Q14, depending on how big the dept is, a lot less for senior residents. "Call" at most places are really a night float system where you come in late with the day before off, on at night for 10-12 hrs, then have the next day off. Residents do not take call until their R2 (PY3 yr)... some places make you take light call 6 months into the rotation.

Typical surgery schedule. Round at 6, so come in at 5. Lucky if you leave by 6 PM. Call Q3-Q5. B/c most residency changes in house call to "home call" (really, they're in the hospital all night long), they have to stay the next day. This is a lot worse on trauma, CT, vascular, neurosurg (for intern year)

Most medicine programs are actually pretty close to this schedule too.. with the exception that they have in-house call.

I'm not claiming that radiology is an easy field, but to deny that it's not a lifestyle field compared to the other specialties.. and to suggest that it is tougher than medicine or surgery is laughable. Like me, most of you find radiology to be interesting.. but like me, most of you chose this field mainly because of the lifestyle it offers... stop BS-ing yourself, this is an anonymous forum.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

First, go back and read this thread. You were the first person to make the switch over about "Hard call" vs. "Hard residency". Of course radiology is a less painful residency than most of them out there, it's the nature of the field. But I will still submit radiology call is by far one of the most brutal experiences in medicine or surgery.

You know what I see the surgery residents on floor call are doing here? Mostly hanging around. They get a call someone is sick, they walk into the room, order some Zofran if it's not any big deal, a CT scan if they're bad enough, RARELY take anyone to the OR emergently. E.R. calls with some dude with belly pain late? Again, quick H&P, lay hands on the guy. Most of these people aren't operated on emergently. And then what they do? Write their note, and maybe hang around the nursing station, or maybe go back to bed or the surgeon's lounge. Sure it, sucks, because you're interspersed periods of activity that keep you from sleeping, but it's not always demanding. Now, trauma call does suck but it's a separate animal and here (at least) is not constant.

Now, I'm not saying this isn't up for debate. Hell, I think the neurosurgery residents and peds surgery fellows have it worse than us: they're never taking a break either but they're out running their asses off all the time. But don't categorically dismiss rads call easy or twist words to make it sound like we're saying the residency at all is super hard. Radiology is a very manageable residency with interspersed brutal call.

And no, I didn't choose radiology for lifestyle. Is it (and money) a factor? Sure, but I had the numbers for other even more lifestyle fields: Derm, Ophtho, etc. I chose radiology because *gasp* it's what I think I can be good at and enjoy for the next few decades.

 

[UCLAstudent]

Bait and switch? I was trying to address the original point in which other poster suggested radiology is not a lifestyle field and tougher.



Yes, I am applying to radiology. I also interviewed for both prelim medicine and surgery year. And while I do not have the vast experience that you do, my observations for the past two years as well as talking to multiple residents on the interview trail certaintly count for something. The typical radiology's resident schedule that I run across are generally coming in at 8, at least an hour of lecture at noon, leave at 3-5. Call is Q6-Q14, depending on how big the dept is, a lot less for senior residents. "Call" at most places are really a night float system where you come in late with the day before off, on at night for 10-12 hrs, then have the next day off. Residents do not take call until their R2 (PY3 yr)... some places make you take light call 6 months into the rotation.

Typical surgery schedule. Round at 6, so come in at 5. Lucky if you leave by 6 PM. Call Q3-Q5. B/c most residency changes in house call to "home call" (really, they're in the hospital all night long), they have to stay the next day. This is a lot worse on trauma, CT, vascular, neurosurg (for intern year)

Most medicine programs are actually pretty close to this schedule too.. with the exception that they have in-house call.

I'm not claiming that radiology is an easy field, but to deny that it's not a lifestyle field compared to the other specialties.. and to suggest that it is tougher than medicine or surgery is laughable. Like me, most of you find radiology to be interesting.. but like me, most of you chose this field mainly because of the lifestyle it offers... stop BS-ing yourself, this is an anonymous forum.

The discussion is not about whether or not a radiology residency is more difficult than surgery or IM (i.e., not about how frequently the residents take call), but rather the difficulty during the actual hours spent on call. Or, at least, that was the initial discussion ... 🙂

 

[colbgw02]

Yes, absolutely, bait and switch. You tried to make the claim that radiology call is easier than surgery or medicine call. You got called on it, and then you promptly changed your claim to saying that surgery or medicine residency is tougher than radiology. That is the very definition of bait and switch. Then, you played the sarcastic victim by acting like everyone else on the thread is stupid for believing that radiology is a tougher residency, when no one actually made that claim. Everyone else posting on this thread can see what happened, so I'm not sure why you can't make the distinction.

 

[discontinuebed]

Yes, absolutely, bait and switch. You tried to make the claim that radiology call is easier than surgery or medicine call. You got called on it, and then you promptly changed your claim to saying that surgery or medicine residency is tougher than radiology. That is the very definition of bait and switch. Then, you played the sarcastic victim by acting like everyone else on the thread is stupid for believing that radiology is a tougher residency, when no one actually made that claim. Everyone else posting on this thread can see what happened, so I'm not sure why you can't make the distinction.

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