how competitive was pathology this year?

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suckerfree

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I heard that pathology was one of the most unfilled specialties after the match this year...is this true? Just how competitive was pathology based on US MD applicants, percent matching, and number of programs with unfilled spots post match? Thanks!
 
Pathology is in the unfortunate position of having too many residency spots (which have gone up significantly in recent years) and fill rates are a deceptive indicator of competitiveness for our profession. The percent of AMGs who have to scramble is probably a better measure since there are many programs that most AMGs would not rank. Pathology is a great specialty with excellent professional satisfaction, reimbursement, and working conditions, but it is over saturated, and if you do not go to a quality program with connections, you face an uphill battle in getting one of these jobs. You can also look at the stats of pathology applicants on this board and nationally and see that AMGs who go into pathology are well above the average medical student in terms of competitiveness. If you want a spot at a big name program you still need to be a very strong applicant.
 
Pathology is in the unfortunate position of having too many residency spots (which have gone up significantly in recent years) and fill rates are a deceptive indicator of competitiveness for our profession. The percent of AMGs who have to scramble is probably a better measure since there are many programs that most AMGs would not rank. Pathology is a great specialty with excellent professional satisfaction, reimbursement, and working conditions, but it is over saturated, and if you do not go to a quality program with connections, you face an uphill battle in getting one of these jobs. You can also look at the stats of pathology applicants on this board and nationally and see that AMGs who go into pathology are well above the average medical student in terms of competitiveness. If you want a spot at a big name program you still need to be a very strong applicant.

Excellent post. Moral of the story: Path is more competitive than it looks, and you need to train at a solid program to get the skills.
 
It's so interesting to see these discussions every year. The fill rate would suggest that the competitiveness hasn't changed. The percentages are comparable every year. I guess the main gauge of competitiveness really lies in anectodal experience. I haven't personally interviewed people but I sure have peeked at a lot of applications and let me tell you, the quality of the applications were significantly stronger than last year. And based on what a few people are posting, maybe this year was more competitive. Generally, I feel that the top programs are getting harder to get into. I feel thankful to enter pathology when I did...I can only imagine what would've happened if grad school took a few years longer to complete :laugh:
 
do ya'll have any thoughts about the % of path spots filled by US seniors, per the table in anencephalic's link? only 57% of the 513 spots were filled by US seniors. i'm not sure what to think of this - is this number relatively low because the FMGs that apply to path are that good? are there not enough quality AMG applicants to bring that percentage up into the 70s or 80s? also, the ranks/position ratio is quite low - lower than gen peds even. that makes me think that applicants realize that they don't have to rank > 20 programs just to match, like some radiology, EM, or surg subspecialty applicants have to do.
 

I always find data interesting, one thing about that which was fascinating is how the # of people in couples match goes up a few percentage points every year. Are more med students marrying other med students (or at least shacking up)? What I will also be interested in seeing is what happens in about 20 years when the kids of all these married doctors start deciding what they want to do with their lives. I hope someone keeps statistics like that.

Pathology I think is getting more competitive for the top spots, it's kind of hard to have the statistics bear that out though, so maybe it's all just anecdotal and med students in general are just getting better applications every year. I guess it stands to reason that if it has been getting harder to get into med school the past 5-10 years than it was previously, than the caliber of graduate will be higher. I just hope path doesn't become a "lifestyle" field that med students start convincing themself is for them just because the lifestyle is superior than other options. Path is hard to do well in and tolerate well if you are not in it because you like it.
 
do ya'll have any thoughts about the % of path spots filled by US seniors, per the table in anencephalic's link? only 57% of the 513 spots were filled by US seniors. i'm not sure what to think of this - is this number relatively low because the FMGs that apply to path are that good? are there not enough quality AMG applicants to bring that percentage up into the 70s or 80s? also, the ranks/position ratio is quite low - lower than gen peds even. that makes me think that applicants realize that they don't have to rank > 20 programs just to match, like some radiology, EM, or surg subspecialty applicants have to do.

Well, I thought this was interesting too. But it also looked like US seniors made up less than HALF of the total match pool (15,667 out of 34,000+). And as has been said above, there are a lot of not-so-good residency programs out there which many US seniors aren't going to consider unless they have a compelling reason. But what it overall suggests is that if you are a US senior and you apply to enough programs and rank them, you should almost be guaranteed of matching.
 
do ya'll have any thoughts about the % of path spots filled by US seniors, per the table in anencephalic's link? only 57% of the 513 spots were filled by US seniors. i'm not sure what to think of this - is this number relatively low because the FMGs that apply to path are that good? are there not enough quality AMG applicants to bring that percentage up into the 70s or 80s? also, the ranks/position ratio is quite low - lower than gen peds even. that makes me think that applicants realize that they don't have to rank > 20 programs just to match, like some radiology, EM, or surg subspecialty applicants have to do.

Yeah I looked at that too. The % of spots filled by US seniors have not changed by all that much over the years. That would imply that the overall competitiveness of the field hasn't changed all that much.

If one wanted to stratify "competitiveness", one would have to stratify the quality of the programs. Some people may feel uncomfortable with this.

Again, I will draw on what I've seen and heard around my neck of the woods. The word on the street, based on gossip within my program and gossip between top programs is that the competitiveness has significantly increased. But again, we have a skewed perspective because top programs attract top notch candidates.
 
I haven't personally interviewed people but I sure have peeked at a lot of applications and let me tell you, the quality of the applications were significantly stronger than last year. And based on what a few people are posting, maybe this year was more competitive. Generally, I feel that the top programs are getting harder to get into. I feel thankful to enter pathology when I did...

I am at a program that appears on all these "top 10" lists that everyone is always posting about on this site and I also had the opportunity to review applications this year. I can tell you without a doubt that more and more highly "competitive" med students are going into pathology (what this means for the unfilled spots, I don't know). My understanding is that years ago applicants matched at top programs in pathology that wouldn't have even been interviewed in other fields at the same institution. It is my experience at my institution that the "numbers" (boards, grades, pubs, etc) of pathology applicants is pretty much on par with what you'd expect from other fields. Remember though, this is only anecdotal and just based on my experience (very small 'n'). All these match statistics can be deceiving (lies, damned lies, and statistics, and so on...).
 
I am at a program that appears on all these "top 10" lists that everyone is always posting about on this site and I also had the opportunity to review applications this year. I can tell you without a doubt that more and more highly "competitive" med students are going into pathology (what this means for the unfilled spots, I don't know). My understanding is that years ago applicants matched at top programs in pathology that wouldn't have even been interviewed in other fields at the same institution. It is my experience at my institution that the "numbers" (boards, grades, pubs, etc) of pathology applicants is pretty much on par with what you'd expect from other fields. Remember though, this is only anecdotal and just based on my experience (very small 'n'). All these match statistics can be deceiving (lies, damned lies, and statistics, and so on...).

i believe this to be true. I think many of us applying this year could have considered ourselves to be competitive for derm, rads, ophtho, rad-onc...etc. I am sure this was the case for several folks who are currently residents.

in fact, i remember my school dean telling me to land one of these "top 10" type programs is not a done deal, sometimes even with a solid application.

i think much of this is due to people being draw to pathology because it is one of the more intellectual specialties in medicine, one that better marries clinical medicine with medical science. this is what drew me to pathology...i simply found it to be more mentally stimulating than other fields. beautiful too. (oh...sorry this is starting to sound like a ps).

point being, if this is part of the draw, then you are going to get a subset of people who love the medical sciences, appreciate "mechanisms of disease" (ie molec bio etc...you know, the science stuff most med students complain about during yrs 1 and 2), and enjoy learning and investigation. in other words, you're going to attract some bright and promising people.

i mean let's face it, this isn't the appeal of clinical derm now is it?

which brings me to my next point. while the lifestyle may be better than other specialties, most people simply don't like histology and/or the idea of not seeing patients...it seems as though most of these people don't even consider pathology until they are miserable surgery, obgyn or im interns!!!!!

i think if path had as few spots as derm or rads then these sats would be a hell of a lot more different.
 
thanks to the upper level residents for some of their thoughts. while numbers can't lie, they certainly can deceive as noted above. if residents at the top tier programs are looking at apps of the interviewees and seeing higher usmle scores, higher class ranks, higher GPAs, etc, then that's indicative i think. but also noted is the danger in making broad conclusions based on little sample sizes. applicants to MGH obviously don't represent the full spectrum of pathology applicants in a given year, and the posters here on SDN obviously don't either.

unfortunately there don't seem to be a lot of posters here from the many solid mid-tier schools (ie, State U for most everything between boston and california). i wonder if these programs, which train lots of pathologists who go out and staff hospitals across the country, are also seeing higher quality applicants, or if it's just that the uppermost echelon is going from tough to uber-tough. i can say that around my home institution, i've heard some of the pathologists generically comment that their applicants this year had higher numbers overall than in past years. can anyone affiliated with State U's out there share their observations from this year?

perhaps most important to me at least, do ya'll think this trend of increasing competitiveness is going to abate any time soon? my thought, no, for the many reasons discussed many times on these discussion boards.
 
i believe this to be true. I think many of us applying this year could have considered ourselves to be competitive for derm, rads, ophtho, rad-onc...etc. I am sure this was the case for several folks who are currently residents.

i know this to be true. at one of my interviews, a dermatologist (dermatologist trained dermpath attending with dual appointments) asked me if path was the only field i was interested in. she continued to press me and asked me if i considered derm since path and derm are somewhat/loosely similar. she said with my CV, she was cautious in believing i was only applying to path. 😕 i don't know how much more i could've convinced her of my utter curiosity for path...in the end she finally believed me. 🙂

oh and btw, congrats on stanford!
 
thanks to the upper level residents for some of their thoughts. while numbers can't lie, they certainly can deceive as noted above. if residents at the top tier programs are looking at apps of the interviewees and seeing higher usmle scores, higher class ranks, higher GPAs, etc, then that's indicative i think. but also noted is the danger in making broad conclusions based on little sample sizes. applicants to MGH obviously don't represent the full spectrum of pathology applicants in a given year, and the posters here on SDN obviously don't either.

unfortunately there don't seem to be a lot of posters here from the many solid mid-tier schools (ie, State U for most everything between boston and california). i wonder if these programs, which train lots of pathologists who go out and staff hospitals across the country, are also seeing higher quality applicants, or if it's just that the uppermost echelon is going from tough to uber-tough. i can say that around my home institution, i've heard some of the pathologists generically comment that their applicants this year had higher numbers overall than in past years. can anyone affiliated with State U's out there share their observations from this year?

perhaps most important to me at least, do ya'll think this trend of increasing competitiveness is going to abate any time soon? my thought, no, for the many reasons discussed many times on these discussion boards.

I've only been in touch with 1 resident from the midwest, and he's at Mayo, and it was the only program he applied to.
Personally, I don't plan on applying to any east or west coast programs; the midwest is where I want to be: IA, NE, MN, WI, MI,IL... maybe a few states east or west of that, but I'm not shooting for MGH or Stanford.
 
perhaps most important to me at least, do ya'll think this trend of increasing competitiveness is going to abate any time soon? my thought, no, for the many reasons discussed many times on these discussion boards.

I don't think this trend will abate anytime soon, particularly at the "big" academic programs. I think the trend of Step 1 >230, AOA-type applicants will probably continue indefinitely, just as it does in other fields at these programs. Our field will never be like Rad Onc or Derm where you virtually need stellar numbers and CV just to get your foot in the door at any program, though.
 
It's so interesting to see these discussions every year. The fill rate would suggest that the competitiveness hasn't changed. The percentages are comparable every year. I guess the main gauge of competitiveness really lies in anectodal experience. I haven't personally interviewed people but I sure have peeked at a lot of applications and let me tell you, the quality of the applications were significantly stronger than last year. And based on what a few people are posting, maybe this year was more competitive. Generally, I feel that the top programs are getting harder to get into. I feel thankful to enter pathology when I did...I can only imagine what would've happened if grad school took a few years longer to complete :laugh:

That wouldn't really make sense given that there are 7-10% fewer AMGs going into path in 2007 vs. 2005 and 2006. For the applicant pool to be significantly stronger, it would would require all med students of 2007 to be significantly stronger than 2006.

What can be said for sure is that Path is considerably more competitive than the late 90s when 120-140 AMGs would apply (i.e. 40-50% that of now)
 
i know this to be true. at one of my interviews, a dermatologist (dermatologist trained dermpath attending with dual appointments) asked me if path was the only field i was interested in. she continued to press me and asked me if i considered derm since path and derm are somewhat/loosely similar. she said with my CV, she was cautious in believing i was only applying to path. 😕 i don't know how much more i could've convinced her of my utter curiosity for path...in the end she finally believed me. 🙂

oh and btw, congrats on stanford!

see that's what i'm talking about...and congrats to you on bwh!!!! i was very happy for you when i saw that. 🙂
 
Pathology is in the unfortunate position of having too many residency spots (which have gone up significantly in recent years) and fill rates are a deceptive indicator of competitiveness for our profession.

Why have the number of spots increased? I thought the gov't funded residency training programs and wouldn't increase the number of spots unless they thought the country needed more docs in the field (at least that's the excuse the derms give for why there are so few programs despite the high demand). Who seriously thought that path needed those extra spots? I can see institutions wanting the cheap labor, but it shouldn't be up to them, right?
 
From what I heard the number of applications at my program were up this year from last year, and the quality was also up. But, looking at the data on the NRMP link, nationally pathology was probably less competitive this year than the past 2-3 years.
 
Why have the number of spots increased? I thought the gov't funded residency training programs and wouldn't increase the number of spots unless they thought the country needed more docs in the field (at least that's the excuse the derms give for why there are so few programs despite the high demand). Who seriously thought that path needed those extra spots? I can see institutions wanting the cheap labor, but it shouldn't be up to them, right?

When the number of years decreased, programs tended to take more residents per year to keep the same number of residents, which results in more pathology spots/pathologists being trained.
 
When the number of years decreased, programs tended to take more residents per year to keep the same number of residents, which results in more pathology spots/pathologists being trained.

Can somebody verify this?

1) When were hte number of years for path residency decreased?
2) WHY were they decreased?

I was always under the impression that residency spots are capped by the federal govt who refuses to pay for more due to the Balanced Budget Amendment of 1997. But if you look at the NRMP bulletin, thats not true because most of the specialties have more residency slots now than they did in the last few yeras, and furthermore the # of slots goes up just about every year.

So whats the deal? Does the BBA factor in some kind of "inflation" rule where the number of programs can increase as the population increases? It cant be a hard cap.
 
This info is from another forum: http://www.usmleforum.com/files/forum/2007/4/172283.php

My alumnus who works there sent me this info. I eliminated the names in front of the titles. They said it is a good year for MGH.

MD PhD (Harvard) CP resident
MD PhD (Boston University) AP resident
MD PhD (University of Pennsylvania) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Washington University) AP resident
MD (Harvard), MBA (Emory) AP/CP resident
MD (Duke) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Washington University) CP resident
MD MPH (Harvard) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Boston University) AP/CP resident
 
1) When were hte number of years for path residency decreased?

Word came down from the mountain in 2003-ish.

MacGyver said:
2) WHY were they decreased?

From "Rethinking pathology residency training and education" (Fred Gorstein and Ronald S. Weinstein, Human Pathology. 32: 1-3, 2001):

There has been continuing controversy over the length of training in pathology in the United States since 1985 when the American Board of Pathology introduced a mandatory fifth year of training. The original intent of the additional year, to provide an opportunity to broaden the clinical experience of trainees, was not realized from the outset. More than 30% of pathology residents entered their training with at least 1 year of clinical experience, and the remainder acquired their clinical knowledge in the course of their pathology training, rather than during a clinical year outside of a department of pathology, as initially specified by the American Board of Pathology.

A majority of Pathology department chairs are of the opinion that: (1) the fifth year requirement is unnecessary; (2) the extra year cannot be cost-justified; (3) the additional year may significantly reduce the pool of United States graduates for residency positions; and (4) the year adds significantly to the indebtedness of many residents. On the other hand, some chairs and program directors feel that the additional year is justified by the increasing complexity of the field and the benefits of additional clinical exposure during pathology residency training.

It is our conviction that we cannot continue to train pathologists in a manner that has long since become outmoded. There are many different options to achieve a flexible program that would provide both basic training in pathology and opportunities to achieve, within a reasonable time frame, the requisite specialty skills. The current model was proposed at a conference held in Park City, Utah, in 1986.[28] The proposal called for a 3-year "core experience," followed by 2 years of subspecialty training. Whereas the Park City proposal focused on blocks of time, we suggest that this could be revised with schedules determined by the time required to achieve competencies on an individual basis. A modification of the Park City proposal could consist of a flexible "core" experience, with respect to time, in the basic disciplines of "anatomic" and "clinical" pathology. Following the core experience, the trainee could pursue any number of tracks leading to special competence in one or more disciplines including the currently recognized subspecialities and, in addition, molecular pathology and informatics. Concerted efforts should be made to enrich the core experience, while minimizing its duration, through the use of Internet-based distance education, telepathology-based conferencing with other institutions, and case simulations. [17 and 29]

We believe the time has come to re-evaluate the length and content of our training programs in the context of rapidly changing technologies and healthcare delivery systems. Ideally, residency program structure would be based on the achievement of defined outcome expectations rather than on an arbitrary schedule. The goals of mastery of core competencies, including analytical skills, should replace the current emphasis on residents spending 5 years of "hard time" in postgraduate education.
 
anybody knows the stats for Path this past match (avg step 1, applicants per position, etc...)? I heard they were released today.
 
This info is from another forum: http://www.usmleforum.com/files/forum/2007/4/172283.php

My alumnus who works there sent me this info. I eliminated the names in front of the titles. They said it is a good year for MGH.

MD PhD (Harvard) CP resident
MD PhD (Boston University) AP resident
MD PhD (University of Pennsylvania) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Washington University) AP resident
MD (Harvard), MBA (Emory) AP/CP resident
MD (Duke) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Washington University) CP resident
MD MPH (Harvard) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Boston University) AP/CP resident

You forgot me! Guess I don't have enough letters after my name... :laugh:
 
I think they were under the impression they hired you as a PA. 😉

I think I will be unofficially changing my name to 'MDonly' as in: "No, no, all the unprepped bowel resections go to MDonly." 🙄
 
Why have the number of spots increased? I thought the gov't funded residency training programs and wouldn't increase the number of spots unless they thought the country needed more docs in the field (at least that's the excuse the derms give for why there are so few programs despite the high demand). Who seriously thought that path needed those extra spots? I can see institutions wanting the cheap labor, but it shouldn't be up to them, right?

If the institution's "right-sizing" committee (or a similar body) agrees that more pathology residency slots are justified AND the department is able to secure funding for the extra salaries, more resident slots can be added rather easily. Alternate funding sources include the VA, the hospital, the department itself, etc. It just depends on how influential the pathology department leaders are with the hospital administration, and how skilled they are at making a case for needing more residents. The process is very political, as you can imagine.
 
This info is from another forum: http://www.usmleforum.com/files/forum/2007/4/172283.php

My alumnus who works there sent me this info. I eliminated the names in front of the titles. They said it is a good year for MGH.

MD PhD (Harvard) CP resident
MD PhD (Boston University) AP resident
MD PhD (University of Pennsylvania) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Washington University) AP resident
MD (Harvard), MBA (Emory) AP/CP resident
MD (Duke) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Washington University) CP resident
MD MPH (Harvard) AP/CP resident
MD PhD (Boston University) AP/CP resident

Damn. Are most of the top academic programs this MD/PhD heavy?
 
Damn. Are most of the top academic programs this MD/PhD heavy?

Most tend to be. Probably because a lot of MD/PhD folks are name-****** and quite a few MD/PhD's go into pathology. Why? Cuz we think lab rats smell less worse than patients, we're crusty old farts that don't wanna spend 7+ years in residency, and oh yeah, research potential I guess.
 
Word came down from the mountain in 2003-ish.

End of 2001 the reduction was announced, but no one officially knew when, or how it would take effect... Talk of an institution by institution basis, and a phased changed, and suggestions that it would not take effect for several years.
It was decided that the PGY-1's starting in 2002 would have 4 years nationwide, in early 2002.

Trust me I remember that going down.
🙄
 
One thing that always gets me is that people on these posts always talk of the "top programs" and then theres all those other "undesirable programs" left over. I think that there are many good programs out there that may not have the name of the 'bigs' but are good places to train none the less. Personally I found three non-academic programs in the SE to be the best programs for me, and I did interview at the 'bigs' in the SE. My point to this rambling is that maybe its just me but I would rather train at a program with a solid group of down to earth people, than go to a big name 'top program' just to get that 'name' and hate all four years of my training. Assuming one can train at a program with no deficiencies, a solid group of pathologists, and cool down to earth fellow residents, then who the F$#! cares about the name. 😡 Yes it may be more difficult for securing a competitive fellowship, but that is so much political and "who you know" anyway. Connections abound in the world of pathology, not just in academic circles.

OK sorry for the rant, but I have a feeling that some of the folks who post on here about "i went to this or that top program and OMG I am so special" are the same type that turned me off to the so called top programs anyway. 🙄

Off the soap box 🙂

E-Mo
 
You're very right. Many many path programs out there are very good and will provide you the training you need. And everyone would be advised to pick a program that fits in with their goals, personality, etc. Never pick a program solely because of name or location, you will likely be disappointed as a result.

That being said though, there are quite a few crappy path programs out there. I don't know how many. But I would also say that the majority of programs provide good training. I agree with you that I got turned off at some top programs by the attitude and other factors.

If you are a motivated resident, where you train is less important then most people think. It might be harder to get top fellowships, but not impossible. And you may have to work harder to get recognition from the outside, but that may or may not be a relevant goal. And like I said, if you are motivated and work hard, you will excel.
 
One thing that always gets me is that people on these posts always talk of the "top programs" and then theres all those other "undesirable programs" left over. I think that there are many good programs out there that may not have the name of the 'bigs' but are good places to train none the less. Personally I found three non-academic programs in the SE to be the best programs for me, and I did interview at the 'bigs' in the SE. My point to this rambling is that maybe its just me but I would rather train at a program with a solid group of down to earth people, than go to a big name 'top program' just to get that 'name' and hate all four years of my training. Assuming one can train at a program with no deficiencies, a solid group of pathologists, and cool down to earth fellow residents, then who the F$#! cares about the name. 😡 Yes it may be more difficult for securing a competitive fellowship, but that is so much political and "who you know" anyway. Connections abound in the world of pathology, not just in academic circles.

OK sorry for the rant, but I have a feeling that some of the folks who post on here about "i went to this or that top program and OMG I am so special" are the same type that turned me off to the so called top programs anyway. 🙄

Off the soap box 🙂

E-Mo

hey, congrats for matching at your #1 Orlando. 👍

in response to the bolded comment, don't you think there are top programs with 'down to earth' faculty and residents? that was the reason i chose BWH over the others.

good luck to you and everyone else come summer time!
 
One thing that always gets me is that people on these posts always talk of the "top programs" and then theres all those other "undesirable programs" left over. I think that there are many good programs out there that may not have the name of the 'bigs' but are good places to train none the less.

I think your sentiment is correct, but you're missing the counter-point about how you found that the best program for you in the SE wasn't at an academic center. I would venture that ermonty, like me, probably doesn't see himself in an academic career, so going to a "big name" program serves little purpose. but for someone who wants to do research and/or work in academic pathology, being at a big name program is right for them, and to those applicants a non big name program is less desireable. such an applicant might find faculty at those big name programs to be down to earth in their opinion, and that's really all that matters. the issue in this thread is whether those spots at the "big name programs" (whichever they are, that's a whole other discussion) are becoming more/less competitive. personally, i don't care that much because i won't be applying to many, if any, of those programs.

personally, i am interested in the competitiveness of what many would call "middle-tier" programs, solid programs with some, but not massive, research prestige and NOT in the northeast or california. there seems to be a disproportionate number of posters on here that want to go to or do go to the more academic programs, so i think it's tough to assess my question based on the comments from people posting in this forum. i have some anecdotal evidence about the strength of my home program's (which I think of as in that middle tier) applicants from looking at their matches, but i'm really looking forward to the updated web sites of the places i'm looking at to see the med school institutions of their matchees. i think most of us would agree that is a proxy, though not a great one, of a program's competitiveness.
 
I would venture that ermonty, like me, probably doesn't see himself in an academic career, so going to a "big name" program serves little purpose. but for someone who wants to do research and/or work in academic pathology, being at a big name program is right for them, and to those applicants a non big name program is less desireable. such an applicant might find faculty at those big name programs to be down to earth in their opinion, and that's really all that matters. the issue in this thread is whether those spots at the "big name programs" (whichever they are, that's a whole other discussion) are becoming more/less competitive. personally, i don't care that much because i won't be applying to many, if any, of those programs.

I don't necessarily plan on staying in academia when I finish (which I was upfront about with every program I interviewed at), and keep in mind that a lot of the big academic programs send people into private practice (UCSF sent three of their finishing fellows into private practice last year). I chose a large program for a number of reasons, one of which was the kind of material that they were seeing, both in house and consult cases, I'm not sure how a community program would compare in terms of the types of cases that they get and I would be interested if anyone could comment from this perspective. For me it was nice seeing cases, with appropriate stains, signed out (in consultation with whomever subspecialty attending if it was unusual or difficult). I guess if you were a resident/attending at a smaller community program, you'd just send it out and then review it when it came back in with a Dx (or supposed dx)? I met a fellow at MSKCC who did his residency at a community program who commented to me several times to stick to academic programs based on his experiences (yeah I know, n=1). I find the idea that there are no "down-to-earth people" at the larger academic programs laughable. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
 
One thing that always gets me is that people on these posts always talk of the "top programs" and then theres all those other "undesirable programs" left over. I think that there are many good programs out there that may not have the name of the 'bigs' but are good places to train none the less. Personally I found three non-academic programs in the SE to be the best programs for me, and I did interview at the 'bigs' in the SE. My point to this rambling is that maybe its just me but I would rather train at a program with a solid group of down to earth people, than go to a big name 'top program' just to get that 'name' and hate all four years of my training. Assuming one can train at a program with no deficiencies, a solid group of pathologists, and cool down to earth fellow residents, then who the F$#! cares about the name. 😡 Yes it may be more difficult for securing a competitive fellowship, but that is so much political and "who you know" anyway. Connections abound in the world of pathology, not just in academic circles.

OK sorry for the rant, but I have a feeling that some of the folks who post on here about "i went to this or that top program and OMG I am so special" are the same type that turned me off to the so called top programs anyway. 🙄

Off the soap box 🙂

E-Mo
What is this forum for? Ranting baby! Echoing yaah, the non-top programs are not all undesirable. But yeah, there probably are some really crappy programs out there...the percentage? I have no idea.

1. There are top programs.
2. Not every program can be a top program.
3. And jerks can be found not only at top programs but in many programs in general.
4. There are plenty of down-to-earth people in pathology...and they can be found at top programs, non-top programs, mediocre programs, and really ****ty programs. Pathology seems to attract the laid-back, down-to-earth folks anyway.
 
OK sorry for the rant, but I have a feeling that some of the folks who post on here about "i went to this or that top program and OMG I am so special" are the same type that turned me off to the so called top programs anyway.

Some of us will need our big egos to keep us warm on cold Boston nights 😉

Look, you did your homework, found a program you liked, ranked it #1, and matched there, right? Congrats! Why should it bother you that other people are excited about matching to their own favorite programs, "big name" or not?
 
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