How critical is BC (board certification) for an academic job during your BE (board eligible) period?

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All other things considered, is it an absolute contraindication to landing an academic job? I realize it's super important, but is it the kiss of death?

I know final year residents going into academics would obviously get a pass, but I'm wondering about someone one or two years out? What if said person did a flurry of things to build the CV during this time, including a fellowship and tons of other stuff... ? Is it the sort of thing that they will say "well, I can understand why he didn't have time to take it given he did XYZ", or is it an automatic flush down the toilet?

To be very clear, I am talking about someone well within the 5 year eligibility period. Obviously after 5 years, you're toast. (And kindly, please don't just respond with "just take it.")

Hope this question makes sense.

Thank you.

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All other things considered, is it an absolute contraindication to landing an academic job? I realize it's super important, but is it the kiss of death?

I know final year residents going into academics would obviously get a pass, but I'm wondering about someone one or two years out? What if said person did a flurry of things to build the CV during this time, including a fellowship and tons of other stuff... ? Is it the sort of thing that they will say "well, I can understand why he didn't have time to take it given he did XYZ", or is it an automatic flush down the toilet?

To be very clear, I am talking about someone well within the 5 year eligibility period. Obviously after 5 years, you're toast. (And kindly, please don't just respond with "just take it.")

Hope this question makes sense.

Thank you.

I'm not in academics but have come across this situation when hiring a community doc. it definitely was a red flag. Seems strange --> not enough time to take the boards? How?! Seems you'd have to have a pretty good reason... personal or family emergency, etc.
 
I took it during fellowship. Plenty of time, at least in tox. If you're doing a fellowship & didn't do it though, the fellowship alone may be a good enough reason and may still land you the academic gig.

That said, then you're studying for boards while trying to build your academic practice... so you're better off doing it during fellowship when time demands are lessened.

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most academic jobs want you to get acclimated and dedicate your initial time to making sure you pass boards. i was told I had to be board certified within 2 years of hire or I was out. we don't employ non-certified docs
 
I think your question is less important for an academic job than the question that everyone here wants to ask -- but is afraid to for some unclear reason -- and that an academic chair will certainly ask without hesitation:

Why have you delayed?

Your answer to that question will answer the question you opened the thread with.

My speculations and the opinions of the previous posters are much less valuable.

HH
 
Thank you all for your replies.

I think your question is less important for an academic job than the question that everyone here wants to ask -- but is afraid to for some unclear reason -- and that an academic chair will certainly ask without hesitation:

Why have you delayed?

Your answer to that question will answer the question you opened the thread with.

My speculations and the opinions of the previous posters are much less valuable.

HH

I didn't want to reveal too much on the forum... I have "Bird" in my name, so like Bird Strike, I gotta be evasive about it. But, I guess I can say that the reason I won't be able to do it this year (I'm exactly 2 years out of residency) is that I will have picked up a couple degrees in that time, including laying the groundwork for a doctoral thesis (which is ongoing), have completed a fellowship, am currently in another international endowed fellowship, and am gunning for another one. All of this is related to the research I am interested in, and which is what I would seek to get hired for. During this entire time, I've worked full time as an ER doctor at a community hospital, since I need to pay down debts and didn't want to get rusty on skills.

But, I simply cannot find time to do the boards until the next year, and I want to apply for an academic gig before that. Really, if someone saw the flurry of stuff I've done, none of it B.S. filler stuff since I have a very clear plan of what I want out of all of this, nobody would say, "why haven't you taken the boards yet???"

HOWEVER, I just wanted to make sure that it's not a law or anything. I know that residents are exempted, but I am not a resident and will be 2+ years out. See, this is what I wonder about:

most academic jobs want you to get acclimated and dedicate your initial time to making sure you pass boards. i was told I had to be board certified within 2 years of hire or I was out. we don't employ non-certified docs

Is it the former, or the latter? I don't mind at all the idea of being given an ultimatum of 2 years--I *have* to do that anyways, otherwise my eligibility will run out, and I can't have that happen under any circumstance. But, if it's the latter--we don't employ non-certified docs--then, I'm out of luck. Maybe it varies from one academic medical center to another, in which case I won't know till the time comes. Shrug.

Anyways, I didn't want to list off what I've done in this time, since I didn't want it to come across as bragging or anything like that. But, I guess that info was deemed important.

Thanks all.
 
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But, I guess I can say that the reason I won't be able to do it this year (I'm exactly 2 years out of residency) is that I will have picked up a couple degrees in that time, including laying the groundwork for a doctoral thesis (which is ongoing), have completed a fellowship, am currently in another international endowed fellowship, and am gunning for another one. All of this is related to the research I am interested in, and which is what I would seek to get hired for. During this entire time, I've worked full time as an ER doctor at a community hospital, since I need to pay down debts and didn't want to get rusty on skills.

If you're willing to share more detail in private, shoot me a PM. I'd be interested in learning more about your experience pursuing research and a doctoral degree post-residency.
 
I think one other thing that may come up is the fact that lots of new attendings are busy and still manage to take and pass their boards. While it sounds like you have some significant accomplishments during that time, your situation as explained so far is not unique enough to explain not taking boards (I know people who worked 200 hrs/ month and while opening up businesses, people who had triplets while getting ready, etc). Choosing to delay them tends to convey the message (rightly or wrongly) that you are not confident in your ability to pass your boards. How much time are you anticipating to spend on taking your boards? The written test lasts less than a day. Most people study for and pass it by simply doing some practice questions for a few hours a day for a week or so. The oral boards tend to kill a weekend give or take when you include travel time. People have different approaches to studying for oral boards, but if you are time-pressed there are several 2-3 day review courses that adequately prepare you.

I'm not trying to be harsh on any of this, just trying to help you see this from an employer's standpoint.


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I think one other thing that may come up is the fact that lots of new attendings are busy and still manage to take and pass their boards. While it sounds like you have some significant accomplishments during that time, your situation as explained so far is not unique enough to explain not taking boards (I know people who worked 200 hrs/ month and while opening up businesses, people who had triplets while getting ready, etc). Choosing to delay them tends to convey the message (rightly or wrongly) that you are not confident in your ability to pass your boards. How much time are you anticipating to spend on taking your boards? The written test lasts less than a day. Most people study for and pass it by simply doing some practice questions for a few hours a day for a week or so. The oral boards tend to kill a weekend give or take when you include travel time. People have different approaches to studying for oral boards, but if you are time-pressed there are several 2-3 day review courses that adequately prepare you.

I'm not trying to be harsh on any of this, just trying to help you see this from an employer's standpoint.


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FYI - To be CORE faculty in a residency program, ACGME requires board certification within 2 years of graduation of residency.
 
FYI - To be CORE faculty in a residency program, ACGME requires board certification within 2 years of graduation of residency.

What exactly do you mean by this?

If I become board certified in year four of my eligibility period, the entire time working in the community, and then apply for an academic job, I can't be a core faculty member eventually? That doesn't sound right. Can you clarify?

If you're willing to share more detail in private, shoot me a PM. I'd be interested in learning more about your experience pursuing research and a doctoral degree post-residency.

Thanks for your interest! I'm a weirdo, and my passions took me in an unorthodox direction, but it seems to be working out great thus far... I'll shoot you a message with a vague but a bit less vague elaboration.

I think one other thing that may come up is the fact that lots of new attendings are busy and still manage to take and pass their boards. While it sounds like you have some significant accomplishments during that time, your situation as explained so far is not unique enough to explain not taking boards (I know people who worked 200 hrs/ month and while opening up businesses, people who had triplets while getting ready, etc)

Let me put it this way for you: I was way busier in the last couple years than during residency. Shrug. I'm not trying to compete with anyone, and I realize other people are busy in life too. I'm simply stating that I was stretched thin.

Choosing to delay them tends to convey the message (rightly or wrongly) that you are not confident in your ability to pass your boards. How much time are you anticipating to spend on taking your boards? The written test lasts less than a day. Most people study for and pass it by simply doing some practice questions for a few hours a day for a week or so. The oral boards tend to kill a weekend give or take when you include travel time. People have different approaches to studying for oral boards, but if you are time-pressed there are several 2-3 day review courses that adequately prepare you.

I'm not trying to be harsh on any of this, just trying to help you see this from an employer's standpoint.

I'm not worried at all about passing the boards, as I've never had a problem with tests, and this certainly won't be the first time suddenly. However, there is some obscure information on the boards, which I would need to brush up on before taking the exam. Yes, if I took it literally this second, I'd probably fail because of that. But, given the regular amount of time one studies for such a test, I'll do just fine. Also, I don't simply want to pass the test, but I want to use it as an opportunity to consolidate knowledge. I anticipate studying for the test over the course of 1-2 months while working and doing other things. Ideally, one run of Hippo EM would be great, along with questions for a few days.

As a side note, my personal experience has been that people tend to heavily understate how much they studied for such exams, I suppose to look innately smarter. Shrug. Just my opinion.

Having said all that, I hear you loud and clear. I'm heavily debating forcing myself to fit the boards this year, which is the whole reason I opened this thread, to help with that decision. It will be tough--and I don't truly know if it will be possible given what I have planned this year--but, I think I can give it a decent shot. I'm just trying to think in my head how many hours it would take to listen to the Hippo EM videos.... On the other hand, I'm wondering if I can cut down the time by picking up a board review book. I'll have to search the forum for a thread on this topic to see if there is such a text available, which can suffice. Anyhoo, I'm talking to myself now... I hear you loud and clear. I'm debating in my head.

Thanks all!
 
Alright, I just bought First Aid for EM Boards. Gonna give it a shot.

Thanks, ya all!
 
What about delaying the boards to have a child? I'll be 34 weeks when I'm scheduled and had my first child early. The flying worries me...
 
As a long-time PD, I can tell you one of your major priorities right out of residency is passing boards. Waiting 4 years is crazy. The sooner u take them the better. (Short of serious illness, family disaster, or having a baby, not to many other legit excuses). Academic jobs will expect u to be BC (or in the process of taking boards). They will ask why it took u 4-5 years to take them if you're working community then trying to switch to academics. Just take them and get it done with. Plus, many places have a decent salary $ bump when u pass. Attached are the ACGME requirements and FAQ's with more details. image.pngimage.png
 
For someone who seems to have accomplished a lot academically, this is one of the dumber questions I've seen in a while.

Just take the boards already.

Let's say you wait until year 4-5 and for some strange reason you fail.

There's a chance you'd no longer be eligible.
Have fun with that.
 
For someone who seems to have accomplished a lot academically, this is one of the dumber questions I've seen in a while.

Just take the boards already.

Let's say you wait until year 4-5 and for some strange reason you fail.

There's a chance you'd no longer be eligible.
Have fun with that.

Fair enough! Good point.
 
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