How critical is non-med community service? Will a lack break an application?

[helloearth]

Hi All,

I've seen through this board that community service can be important in an application (I've seen Catalystik mention this many times). I'm 9 months away from applying and I don't have any, and I am thinking about getting involved in something that is relatively low commitment (1.5 - 2 hours a week total). However, the only time I can do it is inconvenient in that many of my midterms push close to the time (ie service ends at 530 and midterm is at 6p) and I worry this might affect my academics.

If an applicant is strong otherwise (gpa, mcat, research, shadowing, hospital volunteering) and also has other experiences (leadership, teaching), is it okay to forgo community service? Would I be rejected by schools outright for missing this? I know its a small amount of hours overall (by the time of application it will only be like 50 - 60 hours tops) , so would it even be worth the effort? I want to instead focus on what I'm already involved in and do well in that.

I appreciate all opinions. Thanks!

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[Catalystik]

A lack of nonmedical community service will not break your application if it is otherwise strong and you apply broadly (not just to schools with a humanitarian mission). But we are increasingly seeing feedback from med schools where applicants were rejected that they lacked this type of activity. If bringing it to folks' attention while there is time to do something about it might prevent the need for a second application season, I'm sure they'd want to know.

 

[NickNaylor]

At each of my interviews I've been asked specifically about my service activities. I don't think the adcoms care if it's medically related or not, but I get the sense that hospital volunteering isn't quite what they're looking for.

 

[LizzyM]

How do you spend your time? Are you aware of people in need: the homeless & hungry, immigrants who are struggling to learn English, adults who have never learned to read or who are striving to finish their GED, kids who don't have adult role models as they make their way in the world, the elderly who are alone & lonely, children who need some extra help with school work and time management, young athletes in need of a coach, scouts in need of adult leaders... the list can go on & on. Knowing of the needs in your community, do you feel any responsibililty to spend some of your time each month helping to address these needs?

Some adcoms are looking for applicants who are aware of and attempting to address the needs of their communities because it is the right thing to do. They want students whose natural inclination is to say "How can I help?"

 

[Narmerguy]

How do you spend your time? Are you aware of people in need: the homeless & hungry, immigrants who are struggling to learn English, adults who have never learned to read or who are striving to finish their GED, kids who don't have adult role models as they make their way in the world, the elderly who are alone & lonely, children who need some extra help with school work and time management, young athletes in need of a coach, scouts in need of adult leaders... the list can go on & on. Knowing of the needs in your community, do you feel any responsibililty to spend some of your time each month helping to address these needs?

Some adcoms are looking for applicants who are aware of and attempting to address the needs of their communities because it is the right thing to do. They want students whose natural inclination is to say "How can I help?"

Can't help but feel a little sad at this. Not because it's bad that this is sought, but that med schools seem to fail so miserably at accomplishing it. Volunteering has become something to "check off" and not explicitly something that was motivated out of a desire to help and impact others while sacrificing one's own time and resources. It's really disappointing to see so many applicants regard giving and serving others as something noble but done only to please the adcoms rather than something they would devote their energies to regardless.

 

[helloearth]

thank you everyone for your replies. i am definitely looking into research heavy md programs as well as a few md/phd (i will have 2+ years by time of application) . i do plan on applying after junior year as i don't want to take a year off. with this in mind, would i be at a severe disadvantage for missing community service?

also Cole, you said they aren't interested in hospital volunteering? i always thought this was a great way to get clinical experience and also help people out... what if through an organization I do some various community service activities each month for a some hours. would I be able to list that organization as non-medical community service?

 

[gravitywave]

its not that they aren't interested in hospital volunteering, it's that it isn't the same. clinical experience and community service are both good, and can be part of the same activity - but that one activity probably won't be found at the hospital.

 

[hiyaman]

I'm in the same boat as well, how bad does it look if I started doing clinical work and tutoring homeless children the year before I apply?

It's not that I never wanted to do EC's in the past, it's just that my GPA wasn't so hot during my first 1.5 years and I was more focused on getting all A's and I also had started research, and I work part time in my school's library. Will it look bad if I started EC's late? By the time I apply I might have 8-9 months worth of volunteer experience. I'm actually really excited about the tutoring experience.

 

[duress]

what difference does it make if community service is medical or non-medical? obviously, non-medical community service is useless as an 'indicator of altruism' if the OP and others are planning on doing it for medical school.

or is this just one more additional hoop to jump through that premeds have brought on themselves in their competitiveness

 

[LizzyM]

I'm in the same boat as well, how bad does it look if I started doing clinical work and tutoring homeless children the year before I apply?

It's not that I never wanted to do EC's in the past, it's just that my GPA wasn't so hot during my first 1.5 years and I was more focused on getting all A's and I also had started research, and I work part time in my school's library. Will it look bad if I started EC's late? By the time I apply I might have 8-9 months worth of volunteer experience. I'm actually really excited about the tutoring experience.

You'd be pretty typical of the applicants I see.

Can't help but feel a little sad at this. Not because it's bad that this is sought, but that med schools seem to fail so miserably at accomplishing it. Volunteering has become something to "check off" and not explicitly something that was motivated out of a desire to help and impact others while sacrificing one's own time and resources. It's really disappointing to see so many applicants regard giving and serving others as something noble but done only to please the adcoms rather than something they would devote their energies to regardless.

Don't blame the medical schools for the failure of the applicants to do volunteer work out of the goodness of their hearts. Recognizing that some applicants have obligations to earn a living or care for dependents, adcoms do expect that those who have the free time to serve the community will be moved to do so. Those who do so not because it is another hoop but because they are motivated to help where they can are the applicants that many adcoms are looking for. With room for <50% of all applicants we do have our pick.

 

[Suenya]

There are schools where it sounds like it's pretty close to necessary barring a legitimate excuse (such as having kids, working full time, etc) but I got plenty of interviews without having it. Also without being part of any clubs (really), or being particularly active outside some research and medically related (I would argue) volunteering. And only one "hobby" to go in the activities section.

I am not at all convinced you need to have it for most applicants. I suspect my main areas of interest in medicine and research/job experiences might have partially made up for it, but I certainly didn't have anywhere near a full schedule helping people out.

You can get into medical school if in your free time you like to have free time. Don't worry too much.

 

[helloearth]

interesting thoughts. if I had the free time this semester I would definitely do it, but I don't feel like I do amidst classes among other activities. i would hope that they see merit in some of the other activities that I do, but I suppose I could start next semester and if I do need to end up reapplying then I'll have 1.5 years of it by then.

thanks and good luck to all!

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

When I wasn't in class, studying, volunteering at the hospital, or doing any of my other extracurriculars, I spent a significant amount of time in the research lab. I hope adcoms don't dock me for not being involved in nonclinical volunteering but, if they do, that'd be really unfortunate. Who's to say that spending a few hours a week in a soup kitchen is more meaningful than spending dozens of hours in the lab each week pursuing research that has the potential to impact millions? Which shows more "goodness of heart?"

PS. I realize that different schools focus on different things and that applicants strong in one area (ie. research) will have a better chance at certain schools. I'm just more curious as to how an adcom, or anyone in general, decides what shows a more "goodness of heart" type of quality in an applicant.

Edit: Rereading the first part of my post sounds sort of like I'm complaining. I'm really not. Just curious, like I said in my PS part, about the thought processes behind assigning certain activities a greater "goodness of heart" value.

 

[Wermz]

since i saw this thread earlier i've already called up my local community college, applied for a tutor position, interviewed for the position after work, and got the job. i think i'm gonna help some ESL ppl learn English or help people get their GED. actually super excited to do this lol, seems fun

 

[hoot504]

since i saw this thread earlier i've already called up my local community college, applied for a tutor position, interviewed for the position after work, and got the job. i think i'm gonna help some ESL ppl learn English or help people get their GED. actually super excited to do this lol, seems fun

Hell yeah Wermz help them get their read on

 

[LizzyM]

At the heart of a career in medicine is service to individual patients. This often means putting your patient's needs ahead of your own (sometimes your very basic needs like the need for sleep, dinner or even a bathroom break).

While research is important, some adcoms will look for altruistic service to those in need as a measure of an applicant's suitability for a career in medicine.

 

[helloearth]

thanks for your professional input, LizzyM, i really appreciate it. i understand that some adcoms may not like the lack of altruism in my application, but i'm hoping that i'll be okay for some top 30 research schools. i honestly can't imagine packing any more things into my schedule without causing some other activities and things I enjoy to suffer.

correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems that through altruism you're ultimately getting at service to others. does this group necessarily have to be the disadvantaged? if, for example, I were helping other undergraduate students on campus in both a mentor-ship and indirect (student policy) sort of way, would that be okay? its something i really enjoy doing and dedicate a lot of time to

would you be so kind as to let me PM you about this is more detail?

 

[LizzyM]

Do as you please. Come back to this thread 18 mos from now & tell us how it worked out for you so others can learn from your experience which will be broad (more schools) whereas mine is deep (one school but many applications over many years).