How Detailed is Anatomy?

[mrmandrake]

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Hey guys,

I start med school in August but I want to hit the ground running with anatomy, not so much as learning the material right now, but figuring out how to study for it. I have some questions that you guys might be able to answer.

1) From what I understand (which isn't much), there is a practical part and a written part to anatomy. So for the practical part you walk around cadavers that are tagged and just write down what you think the structures are and for the written part you answer clinical questions about anatomy?
2) Can you give an example of a written anatomy question?
3) For exams, do the professors use diagrams from the specific atlas you are assigned to study from or do they use their own diagrams from notes or something?
4) I understand that the difficulty with the practical is that you have to ID a nerve or something when there are 10 other nerves surrounding it that look exactly like it. How do you deduce this sort of thing? Do you need to know where each nerve starts and ends and what it innervates and it's size compared to other nerves? If so, do you gather this information from hanging around cadavers or do you read them in the dissector or atlas?

Thanks for the help guys. I just want to know what I'm up against and I think knowing how to study right off will take a lot of stress away.

 

[FlowLimited]

Hey guys,

I start med school in August but I want to hit the ground running with anatomy, not so much as learning the material right now, but figuring out how to study for it. I have some questions that you guys might be able to answer.

1) From what I understand (which isn't much), there is a practical part and a written part to anatomy. So for the practical part you walk around cadavers that are tagged and just write down what you think the structures are and for the written part you answer clinical questions about anatomy?

Pretty much. The written questions aren't necessarily clinical vignettes, though.

2) Can you give an example of a written anatomy question?

If trauma to the axilla injures the axillary nerve and spares all others, which blood vessel is also most likely to be damaged by that same injury:

A. Lateral thoracic artery
B. Pectoral branches of the thoracoacromial artery
C. Posterior circumflex humeral artery
D. Suprascapular artery
E. Thoracodorsal artery

3) For exams, do the professors use diagrams from the specific atlas you are assigned to study from or do they use their own diagrams from notes or something?

For us, both.

4) I understand that the difficulty with the practical is that you have to ID a nerve or something when there are 10 other nerves surrounding it that look exactly like it. How do you deduce this sort of thing? Do you need to know where each nerve starts and ends and what it innervates and it's size compared to other nerves? If so, do you gather this information from hanging around cadavers or do you read them in the dissector or atlas?

Yes, you need to know where muscles originate and insert, what nerves innervate, what blood vessels supply, etc. You can figure things out based on where they are located, what they run alongside, etc.

Thanks for the help guys. I just want to know what I'm up against and I think knowing how to study right off will take a lot of stress away.

 

[cpants]

http://anatomy.med.umich.edu/

This site from Umich might interest you. There are many examples of practical and written exam questions, and you should be able to get a feel for the depth of knowledge required.

 

[Depakote]

The minutia of gross anatomy should feel absolutely terrifying and overwhelming until you've hit the point where you've studied enough. At that point, you'll review the material and it will all seem familiar. You'll know the difference between the things that sound alike, you'll get the answers to practice questions and you'll be able to apply the knowledge to clinical scenarios. If you can get to that point by the test, you'll do fine.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

The minutia of gross anatomy should feel absolutely terrifying and overwhelming until you've hit the point where you've studied enough. At that point, you'll review the material and it will all seem familiar. You'll know the difference between the things that sound alike, you'll get the answers to practice questions and you'll be able to apply the knowledge to clinical scenarios. If you can get to that point by the test, you'll do fine.

You know, I feel the same way about every topic in medical school: completely overwhelmed by the sheer volume at the beginning and by the end it is much more comfortable.

 

[Depakote]

You know, I feel the same way about every topic in medical school: completely overwhelmed by the sheer volume at the beginning and by the end it is much more comfortable.

👍

 

[rabidpanda13]

If trauma to the axilla injures the axillary nerve and spares all others, which blood vessel is also most likely to be damaged by that same injury:

A. Lateral thoracic artery
B. Pectoral branches of the thoracoacromial artery
C. Posterior circumflex humeral artery
D. Suprascapular artery
E. Thoracodorsal artery

What's the answer?

 

[Depakote]

What's the answer?

It's been a while since I've studied this, but I'm going to say B.

 

[mrmandrake]

Thanks for all the helpful input guys. I guess I'm in for a real treat come August.

 

[Depakote]

It's been a while since I've studied this, but I'm going to say B.

and now that I look at the anatomy, I know I'm wrong.... C

stupid quadrangular space.

 

[87138]

What's the answer?

Off the top of my head I think it's C.


Edit: Didn't see Depa's post above.

 

[Dral]

I think you have a pretty good sense of what to expect from your original post and now from what people have said.

Anatomy was my first med school exam...it's pretty surreal. I left thinking "I could have gotten a 60% on that, I could have gotten a 95% on that, who knows?". Lucky for anatomy, I tended to get toward the latter.

Anyway, I know telling a pre-med/med to not stress is like trying to tell a fly to stay off cow dung, but don't stress, relax and enjoy your 2nd to last summer off until you retire. 😉

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Hey guys,


1) From what I understand (which isn't much), there is a practical part and a written part to anatomy. So for the practical part you walk around cadavers that are tagged and just write down what you think the structures are and for the written part you answer clinical questions about anatomy?

yes for where I go to school

2) Can you give an example of a written anatomy question?

The earlier example would be a question from the class exam. The practical would have questions like, "name this structure. Be specific"

3) For exams, do the professors use diagrams from the specific atlas you are assigned to study from or do they use their own diagrams from notes or something?

All images come from our texts, except for guest physician lecturers who bring their own slides.

4) I understand that the difficulty with the practical is that you have to ID a nerve or something when there are 10 other nerves surrounding it that look exactly like it. How do you deduce this sort of thing? Do you need to know where each nerve starts and ends and what it innervates and it's size compared to other nerves? If so, do you gather this information from hanging around cadavers or do you read them in the dissector or atlas?

Yes, yes, yes.

Thanks for the help guys. I just want to know what I'm up against and I think knowing how to study right off will take a lot of stress away.

You are going to stress on your first exam, and then you'll figure out how they test.

 

[njbmd]

Hey guys,

I start med school in August but I want to hit the ground running with anatomy, not so much as learning the material right now, but figuring out how to study for it. I have some questions that you guys might be able to answer.

1) From what I understand (which isn't much), there is a practical part and a written part to anatomy. So for the practical part you walk around cadavers that are tagged and just write down what you think the structures are and for the written part you answer clinical questions about anatomy?
2) Can you give an example of a written anatomy question?
3) For exams, do the professors use diagrams from the specific atlas you are assigned to study from or do they use their own diagrams from notes or something?
4) I understand that the difficulty with the practical is that you have to ID a nerve or something when there are 10 other nerves surrounding it that look exactly like it. How do you deduce this sort of thing? Do you need to know where each nerve starts and ends and what it innervates and it's size compared to other nerves? If so, do you gather this information from hanging around cadavers or do you read them in the dissector or atlas?

Thanks for the help guys. I just want to know what I'm up against and I think knowing how to study right off will take a lot of stress away.

What got you into medical school will get you through medical school with adjustments for the volume of material. There is no special magic for mastery of anatomy or any other subject. You can't "know what you are up against" until you sit in your lecture, study your texts and see how you master the material on a regular basis. To believe otherwise is to invite a false sense of security that may prove problematic.

Best strategy: take each subject as it comes and don't get behind. Anatomy because it is largely assimilation of a large amount of material, isn't very difficult and doesn't require much "figuring" but more "learning what's there". In short, dissection, reading and identification all play a role and must be covered.

Another strategy: stop stressing at this point. By the time you get to class, you will be a "basket case" and subject to "burn-out" quickly. Some many people feared and dreaded the first anatomy exams at my school, that many people just "psyched" themselves into failing that test (75%). Since only two people actually failed the course, those 75% figured out how to pass the tests and moved on which is the way most of medical school is accomplished.

If you got in, you can figure out what to do to stay in and pass without spending time worrying about approaches. How do you approach running a marathon? Preparation and one step at a time.

 

[rabidpanda13]

Has anyone found that taking A&P as an undergrad helped?

 

[FlowLimited]

and now that I look at the anatomy, I know I'm wrong.... C

stupid quadrangular space.

Off the top of my head I think it's C.


Edit: Didn't see Depa's post above.

Looks like I forgot to post the answer. You guys are right, it's C.

 

[montessori2md]

I didn't take A&P in ugrad, only one guy at my table had -I do think the people who had were more comfortable on the first day of lab, and maybe had a clearer idea of what they were in for, than those who didn't. But I don't think that's anything that 2 hours with the UMich website wouldn't clarify for you (except maybe the smell, but who doesn't know about that, really?)

The bother of anatomy is the bother of any course, which is just that it's a lot to learn in oh so little time. What makes it more of a bother in anatomy is that often you have to remove superficial structures to get to deeper structures, and sometimes things get lost/sliced/etc, so you can have a bit of an easter egg hunt on your hands if you didn't nail it on the day it was covered. For someone like myself, who doesn't like to have to follow the schedule every single day, that can be obnoxious.
In other courses, you can just learn the syllabus as you please -not like it won't be there tomorrow...with a cadaver, that isn't the case.

Be advised, every school dissects differently, and some don't at all.

In my written exams, there are no images (What is this? is saved for the lab exams, and the only images are radiographs). Most of us studied from several different atlases, but it wasn't necessary to purchase more than one unless you wanted to scribble on them.

 

[HPSPpayissues]

Seriously, if you are good at memorizing relationships, you don't even have to really spend much time in the lab. Just go buy the Netter's atlas AND flashcards, and memorize the relationships. For example, which legs muscles are in the anterior compartment from medial to lateral and where does the superficial peroneal nerve go, etc. For the real practical exam, they will tag things just like the atlas with specific RELATIONSHIPS. Of course, looking and finding things on the real cadaver would make you feel more comfortable during the real deal though...

 

[RySerr21]

my prof always mentions how in anatomy practicals in med school they will sometimes cover up the entire body (you dont konw which way is head or which way is feet) and then cut a little sliver out of the tarp so that you can only see this one portion of the body........from there, w/o knowing anything else you have to be able to orient yourself and find out what it is you are looking at.......

anybody had this experience? I believe him that it happened to him, but i'm just curious how common it is. He tried to do similar things with musculoskeletal by cutting up pictures of body builders and making a calage. We had to orient ourselves and figure out what body part/muscle we were looking at....

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Not for us.

Love the Haka avatar. Watching Wales v Scotland right now.

 

[Dr Roboto]

my prof always mentions how in anatomy practicals in med school they will sometimes cover up the entire body (you dont konw which way is head or which way is feet) and then cut a little sliver out of the tarp so that you can only see this one portion of the body........from there, w/o knowing anything else you have to be able to orient yourself and find out what it is you are looking at.......

anybody had this experience? I believe him that it happened to him, but i'm just curious how common it is. He tried to do similar things with musculoskeletal by cutting up pictures of body builders and making a calage. We had to orient ourselves and figure out what body part/muscle we were looking at....

Yea. My anatomy professors did all that. It wasn't always pictures of buff dudes though. We occasionally had some Maxim chicks for dermatomes.

 

[SB100]

I love how I'm taking Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy in my last semester of undergrad, and slowly realizing how little it really tells me about human anatomy 😛

 

[RySerr21]

Not for us.

Love the Haka avatar. Watching Wales v Scotland right now.

where did you watch it live? did you pay? England v Wales will be a good match to watch.

 

[TMP-SMX]

my prof always mentions how in anatomy practicals in med school they will sometimes cover up the entire body (you dont konw which way is head or which way is feet) and then cut a little sliver out of the tarp so that you can only see this one portion of the body........from there, w/o knowing anything else you have to be able to orient yourself and find out what it is you are looking at.......

anybody had this experience?

Yep pretty much.

Also, at many schools don't expect most of the practical questions to be straight ID. Many are going to be multilevel knowledge questions in addition to requiring you to know what is tagged. For example when looking at a piece of cotton going through the spermatic cord or some other skin layer and knowing all of the layers. Another example would be tagging a cranial nerve as it goes through a foramen in the skull and asking what defect you would have if it were lesioned at that point. (Though obviously nerve lesions are more important for the written exam and you'll get a whole lot more of CN lesions in neuro).

 

[Vonsmack]

Has anyone found that taking A&P as an undergrad helped?

Anytime you have taken a course in undergrad it will help for med school. The undergrad course won't go as near in detail as you will need for med school, but it will introduce you to topics and you will be more comfortable with the material. The kids that took undergrad anatomy in my class were a step ahead and usually were spending lab helping others find structures. That doesn't mean they necessarily got better grades, because everyone catches up and we who hadn't seen a cadaver before just had to study a little harder.

 

[SB100]

Ok so now I'm curious. I talked to my comparative vertebrate anatomy professor (a MudPhud) and he said the human anatomy book we use in class is a good reference but is used in nursing school! I thought it was pretty damn detailed.

How bad is gross anatomy gonna suck?

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Ok so now I'm curious. I talked to my comparative vertebrate anatomy professor (a MudPhud) and he said the human anatomy book we use in class is a good reference but is used in nursing school! I thought it was pretty damn detailed.

How bad is gross anatomy gonna suck?

It's probably crap. That's what they told me about Costanzo for Physiology and one other good book that I can't remember. If they want to give you additional details, it'll almost always be in the syllabus or lecture notes.

 

[RySerr21]

Yep pretty much.

Also, at many schools don't expect most of the practical questions to be straight ID. Many are going to be multilevel knowledge questions in addition to requiring you to know what is tagged. For example when looking at a piece of cotton going through the spermatic cord or some other skin layer and knowing all of the layers. Another example would be tagging a cranial nerve as it goes through a foramen in the skull and asking what defect you would have if it were lesioned at that point. (Though obviously nerve lesions are more important for the written exam and you'll get a whole lot more of CN lesions in neuro).

are practicals and written exams given with a few days of each other? so that you can study for both at the same time kinda? If thats the case then i guess anything should be fair game on the practical since you should know it for the written....eh?

 

[TMP-SMX]

are practicals and written exams given with a few days of each other? so that you can study for both at the same time kinda? If thats the case then i guess anything should be fair game on the practical since you should know it for the written....eh?

Of course they are around the same time. They are the same day plus the histo test at most schools. Studying for the practical is not the same as studying for the written though. The practical is memorization, relationships, and recognition while the written is about clinical cases.

The way we did it at Wayne is we split up our 300+ person class into two groups of 150. One group would start with the anatomy practical in the morning and the other group would start with the histology exam followed by the written anatomy exam. Then after a 30 minute lunch the two groups switch but because of the way it is scheduled the two groups would never have a chance to interact as the group that takes the practical first doesn't leave until the other group is ready to enter.

The practical and written are not really the same types of questions. The written is much more clinical involving nerve lesions, injuries, and that type of thing.

 

[HPSPpayissues]

Anatomy definitely is one of the many dreadful, yet important, classes in med school, since you have to prepare for the practical and written exams at the same time. Also, both are always tested on the same day. It was hard figuring out what to study more...

 

[dnslay]

Talk to 2nd years about how to do well. Spend your hours studying, not picking apart the cadaver cell by cell. Finish the dissection and don't get too hung up on cutting stuff. If you know you've cut it, guess what? You found it 👍

Look at other bodies, start email/messageboard lists about rare finds (ie sternalis muscle, piriformis syndrome, azygous lobe, extra nipples etc).

Melanocytes come from the neural crest. They just do, okay?

 

[45408]

Ok so now I'm curious. I talked to my comparative vertebrate anatomy professor (a MudPhud) and he said the human anatomy book we use in class is a good reference but is used in nursing school! I thought it was pretty damn detailed.

How bad is gross anatomy gonna suck?

if it's not in Netter, you probably don't have to know it. If it's in Netter, you should probably know it. We didn't have to learn specific attachments and insertions for every muscle, but you had to have a general idea of how they all worked.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

If you're worried about passing, you should study anatomy. But otherwise I would study something more useful, you really don't need to know that much detailed anatomy in most fields on medicine. Even surgery you learn detailed anatomy of certain areas depending on the type of surgeon you are, but not the entire body. And heck you don't need to know the name of ever artery and nerve to know it might not be a great idea to snip a big vessal going to a vital organ. 🙂

 

[.surgical.]

I think it would have greatly helped to have seen the material earlier in an undergraduate anatomy course.

My tips for anatomy:
-Make friends with the TA's. Ask them as many questions as possible and get any helpful tips you can out of them. Ours were all masters of anatomy students who had a much longer period of time to learn the material and therefore had a better grasp on it.

-Learn how to find relationships. Yes, it's difficult to name a nerve when there are 6 others nearby; but if you know that nerve X passes OVER muscle X and UNDER vessel Y, you just learned 3 structures.

-Questions are rarely "ID Structure." My questions were mostly of the type; "What is the innervation of this tagged muscle?"
"What type of nerve fibers run through the nerve at this point? (GSA/GSE/GVE/GVA)"
"What is the embryological origin of this or what is the germ layer of origin?"

-I recommend spending more time in the lab looking at real bodies than you do looking at Netter. While Netter is great as a "perfect" example of what things SHOULD look like, the real bodies hardly ever look just like Netter. As a simple example, the color scheme alone varies from body to body--and Netter is drawn without ANY fat, a dissectors dream.

-Like everyone else has said, it always starts out overwhelming. You will ask how it is possible to ever learn the bulk of the material. Then you will pass the exam with flying colors and go out drinking.


Also: Comparative vertebrate anatomy is a bad idea.
Invertebrate anatomy is worse ^ ^