How did you choose which MSTP to attend?

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By now many of us have gotten acceptances, and are comparing programs to choose from. For the current MSTP students out there, how did you end up choosing your programs and what advice would you have for incoming students in choosing their future medical/graduate school?

Also if anyone has already decided, please share how you decided. So far I am looking at this list for each school, but it's probably not complete and some parts may not be as important as I think they are:

- research in my field of interest
- med curriculum
- emphasis on MSTP and resources
- MSTP history/track record (i.e. ave grad time not 10 yrs)
- location, standard of living
- etc.

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By now many of us have gotten acceptances, and are comparing programs to choose from. For the current MSTP students out there, how did you end up choosing your programs and what advice would you have for incoming students in choosing their future medical/graduate school?

Also if anyone has already decided, please share how you decided. So far I am looking at this list for each school, but it's probably not complete and some parts may not be as important as I think they are:

- research in my field of interest
- med curriculum
- emphasis on MSTP and resources
- MSTP history/track record (i.e. ave grad time not 10 yrs)
- location, standard of living
- etc.

I think that 95% of people follow this formula:

Choice = x(location) + y(research opportunies) + z(medical school quality)

Where x,y,z are all extremely different for each individual person and therefore there is no real answer to your question.
 
In my order of priority (which... hasn't changed in 8 years):

1) Location -- Whatever is important to you. City vs. rural. East coast v. west coast v. midwest v. mountains. Nobody can tell you what location YOU will love, but I think this is very important for your happiness for 8 years.

2) Strength of MSTP -- Is the place organized? Do people seem friendly? I thought it would be hard to tell from interviews, but at both the MSTP and residency level it really wasn't... Average time to graduation over the past 5 years is important too.

3) Research in your area of interest -- This you can prioritize more or less depending on how serious you are about going into one area. Don't get your heart set on one lab. I really wanted to work with one guy and he ended up raping one of his lab techs and fleeing the country (true story).

4) Overall research opportunities -- I was dead set on one specialty and one group of labs when I started and COMPLETELY 180ed. I picked up some very unusual but sought after skills in my program I had never even considered before I found the lab, and now fill an in demand niche.

Things I don't think matter:

-- med cirriculum. Med school is med school. There's some minor differences. Big whoop. I personally think PBL sucks after going to a school with mixed traditional and PBL. But you won't know until you try it. If anything try to find a med school with the least number of forced away rotations in third year or goofy requirements in fourth year. But you're probably not thinking about that now.
-- Medical school "quality". How do you measure this?! USNews ranking? Complete waste of your thought process IMO. As long as the program is MSTP it's solid.
 
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From what I've seen so far as my interviews wrap up the med schools are roughly the same everywhere, except maybe 1 or 2 programs. Choosing schools based on field and not PI is solid advice. Honestly by now I've kind of forgotten how each place was, so second look will be a good time to refresh my memory of the places.
 
For me, location, people in my MD/PhD program, research opportunities, number of grants received by other students, and lifestyle of school/area of country were important. I'd suggest going to revisit weekend and spending some time in each area/talk to professors...
 
For me, location, people in my MD/PhD program, research opportunities, number of grants received by other students, and lifestyle of school/area of country were important. I'd suggest going to revisit weekend and spending some time in each area/talk to professors...
How can I find out this grant information? Someone posted an NIH site with funding of profs you can search, but none for students. I will be going to revisits in April before choosing, but I also want to do as much research before then so I can make a choice immediately after revisits since people are waiting for spots to open up for waitlist and whatnot.
 
I don't think number of grants received by other MD/PhD students at a given institution has much do with your chances of getting a grant. I think with how few institutes are supporting F30s or MD/PhDs by any mechanism these days, it has more to do with whether your research is close enough to a sponsoring institute to have any chance at all.

Anyway, just go to http://projectreporter.nih.gov/reporter.cfm

This has all NIH grants searchable. For MD/PhD student grants, search for grant type %F30% as the F30 is going to fund the vast majority of your MD/PhDs with grants over a few thousand dollars.
 
By now many of us have gotten acceptances, and are comparing programs to choose from. For the current MSTP students out there, how did you end up choosing your programs and what advice would you have for incoming students in choosing their future medical/graduate school?

Also if anyone has already decided, please share how you decided. So far I am looking at this list for each school, but it's probably not complete and some parts may not be as important as I think they are:

- research in my field of interest
- med curriculum
- emphasis on MSTP and resources
- MSTP history/track record (i.e. ave grad time not 10 yrs)
- location, standard of living
- etc.

1. Stipend/living expenses/location- I figured these are all important factors so that 5 years down the line when I'm older I don't hate my life. Be somewhere you know you will enjoy yourself. Do the calculations with the stipend and estimated living expenses and see how much you can save per month comfortably. I'm pretty lax with my finances and won't have a problem saving 4-5k per year in my Roth IRA.

2. MSTP history/size- I wanted a big, well-established program. Glad I chose one.

3. Research in my field- I ranked this relatively low because I wasn't set on a specific department. I just wanted to go somewhere that had diverse and quality oportunities. Even if you are dead set on some field, I would still suggest you weight the general quality of the institutions research above one particular department. Most people tend to change their minds and it would suck if you didn't have good backup labs available.

4. Medical curriculum- its going to be hard, full of bureaucracy, and suck pretty much where ever you go. Just accept this and move on. The reality is that no matter how "reformed" a curriculum is, smart students will work hard and do well on their boards.
I do have two exceptions to this though:
- I wanted to go somewhere with a pass/fail system. After dealing with obnoxious premeds most of undergrad I was tired of dealing with people who work hard for the sake of getting ahead of other people. My school is true pass fail for the non-clinical years and I really appreciate my peers here. There is simply no incentive for people to not help each other and I think by not ranking us, the overly-anal gunner students went elsewhere. If you are someone who needs grades to motivate you then go to a school that grades. I read a good article last year about an analysis of residency matching at schools that went from graded to pass/fail systems- the end result was that overal residency placement greatly improved when the school switched to a pass fail system. Bottom line is that unless you know you're going to be in the top 20% of your class (you might be suprised what people will do to themselves to be at the top), grades are only going to hurt you when applying for residency. Don't buy into the scare tactic that so many schools tried to sell to me during interviews that "residencies will toss out applications of applicants with pass/fail transcripts"- lies.
- Some places allow MD-PhD students to places out of electives and/or non essential rotation. This can help you shave ~1/2 year off of your graduation time.

If it were possible to know for sure, I think the #1 selection factor would be the people in the class. Of course, there's no guarantee who you see at a revisit will end up attending, but I ended up with awesome classmates and it has made a world of difference. No matter how independent you are, you are going to need a some support system for the times you feel like you're not quite a med student, or not quite a grad student- especially transitioning into your 3rd year.
 
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Hey all,

Lots of good advice on this thread.

24th Grade's criteria above are similar to my own.

Location/cost of living/stipend were the most important criteria for me. I figure, I'm going to be living somewhere for eight years, so I'd better like it and I'd better be able to live comfortably. I didn't want to be shelling out my whole stipend to live in a subsidized student apartment in some big city well into my 30's. That just doesn't have any appeal for me, and no matter how great the school, I knew I wanted to live somewhere that I could buy a house if I wanted to, and where I might even have the chance to save some bucks every month.

I knew I also wanted warmer weather than what I was used to, so that was important too :D (And, I'm getting it now. 70ºF in Feb! I like.)

I've only been an MSTP student for a few months now, but I feel confident in making these criteria above the most important ones. Overall my quality of life is just a lot better because I love where I live. All my classmates and I can afford to live in really nice apartments or homes and not break the bank by going out to eat once in a while or doing leisure activities. School is hard enough. On days when school is kind of sucky, I'm glad I don't have to worry about living in a dumpy spot or having 3 or 4 roommates getting in each other's way when I'm trying to study.

I know these things aren't top on every applicant's list, but I think it should get more consideration than it does. Life changes a lot in eight years. Maybe you'll be married or have a long-term SO. Maybe you'll even have some kids. Who knows. Think about where it might be easiest or most enjoyable for you to experience those things.


Strength and organization of the MSTP

I wanted to go to a program that had already worked out most of its kinks and had a long history of producing physician-scientists. I expected that there would be several points through the eight years where I'd need the help and guidance of the director and administrators in the MSTP, so I wanted to go somewhere where there was no doubt I'd get that help when I needed it. When I was interviewing, I saw the full spectrum of organization and cohesiveness in programs. I know you can't get the full story from interview and second look, but there were clearly differences in how well each program planned for our trips, how they treated us when I was there, and how much social interaction was built into the program. Again, I've only been here a few months, but my impressions have been borne out now by experience. Our program definitely has a 'family' feel, with upper and underclassmen interacting all the time. The program administrators runs a tight ship here with no lost paperwork or missed deadlines. I know it's difficult to gauge these things when you're an applicant, but try your best. If on interview day or second look, you're not sure where to go and you're standing around and you're not getting much help from anyone in the program, that's a bad sign. Think about how that might play out in eight years.


Quality of the research in my area

This is a given. You should seek to go to a place where there are a number of opportunities for you to do the work you want to do. As a rule of thumb, I'd say make sure there are at least 5 people you'd be happy to work for. To be sure, your interests might change when you arrive at a school, but if make your decision based on your interest in a single investigator, you might be setting yourself for disappointment.

I want to mention that this criterion was actually #1 on my list once upon a time. Earlier in the season, I was thinking that what lab I did my PhD work in was the most important part of the decision making process. I was influenced mostly by the fact that I was working full time in the lab, and in talking with my colleagues, all that really seemed to matter to everyone was your PhD pedigree. But I wised up and realized that I wasn't making a decision to join a PhD program solely. I changed my ranking for that reason and I'm really happy I did.


Curriculum of the Medical School

This one is a given. Everyone's learning style is different, so it's important that the curriculum be suited to your preferences. I know that I prefer to learn independently, and so I chose a school with a curriculum that accommodates that preference as much as possible. As one of my classmates said recently, at least for the pre-clinical part of our education, "The role of our school is to notarize our independent studying." So, if you feel like that, make sure the med school can let you just study that way, i.e, don't go somewhere with lots and lots of mandatory attendance. If you're the sort of person who really enjoys going to lecture and learns best under the guidance of a teacher, then look for that in the curriculum of a school.

I also took into consideration the scope of the clinical experiences I'd be able to have and the reputation of the med school in general. I'd say these last aspects are the most important. You could learn the pre-clinical stuff anywhere, but you can't do the clinical stuff on your own. That, in my mind, is what you're really going to med school for and it's what med school can offer to you uniquely. So as best you can, try to gauge how satisfied the current students are with the scope and quality of their clinical experiences at a school.

Anyway, those are the things I thought about. If you have any questions or want to discuss, shoot me a PM.

Good luck.
 
Hey guys, thanks for the advice. With your tips I will be able to make the best decision.
 
Gut feeling and quality of mentoring. You will be able to identify the latter through the students that are presently attending.

All else will pale in comparison to a quality mentor. It will make or break your PhD.
 
All else will pale in comparison to a quality mentor. It will make or break your PhD.

Agreed. Research topic, impact factor/"sexy science", department, etc. are all far less important than the personal dynamic you have with the mentor. Even funding is, in my view, overrated. You need someone who is humane and understanding of issues in your outside life, an excellent scientist, understands and works the "system", looks out for training opportunities for you (makes you write a grant, critique manuscripts, etc.), and nudges you along through your PhD when you need guidance and encouragement.
 
Agreed. Research topic, impact factor/"sexy science", department, etc. are all far less important than the personal dynamic you have with the mentor. Even funding is, in my view, overrated. You need someone who is humane and understanding of issues in your outside life, an excellent scientist, understands and works the "system", looks out for training opportunities for you (makes you write a grant, critique manuscripts, etc.), and nudges you along through your PhD when you need guidance and encouragement.

Exactly, but you wrote it more eloquently. :)
 
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NEURONIX said:
1) Location -- Whatever is important to you. City vs. rural. East coast v. west coast v. midwest v. mountains. Nobody can tell you what location YOU will love, but I think this is very important for your happiness for 8 years.

2) Strength of MSTP -- Is the place organized? Do people seem friendly? I thought it would be hard to tell from interviews, but at both the MSTP and residency level it really wasn't... Average time to graduation over the past 5 years is important too.

3) Research in your area of interest -- This you can prioritize more or less depending on how serious you are about going into one area. Don't get your heart set on one lab. I really wanted to work with one guy and he ended up raping one of his lab techs and fleeing the country (true story).

4) Overall research opportunities -- I was dead set on one specialty and one group of labs when I started and COMPLETELY 180ed. I picked up some very unusual but sought after skills in my program I had never even considered before I found the lab, and now fill an in demand niche.
Just wanted to bump this post for everyone else. It is immensely useful.

By the way, what does everyone else think of this order of importance? I'm curious what others think. Looks good to me, but obv some people care less about location etc.
 
Graduating from my MD/PhD program this year. When I chose almost 8 yrs ago:

1) Strength of science in chosen field with several labs I could see myself working in (though not necessarily knowing mentorship potential of said PIs). That said, I was pretty set on what kind of science I wanted to do my PhD work in and did not foresee changing my mind.

2) Location. You're committing a significant portion of your life to this program. Being able to do things outside of school is key to maintaining your happiness - this may mean having opportunities for your hobbies and/or being closer to family/significant other/etc.

3) Organization of MD/PhD program and time to graduation. Certain very highly ranked programs, for example, did not guarantee your choice of grad program at matriculation (i.e. there was a separate application process following MS1 year; hopefully this has been done away with). You want to go to a place where MD/PhD students are valued and the program has a significant voice within the medical school and the commonly chosen PhD departments. This in part is reflected in time to graduation: does the program take an active role in monitoring graduate school progress and get involved in problems come up? Is this involvement effective? I would highly recommend seeking out senior students, especially those for whom the process did not go as well as hoped for. What were the issues that they ran into? Most MD/PhD students are very capable, and while personal problems absolutely come up, many are victims of systemic issues that applicants would do well to know about and avoid.

4) MD curriculum. This will generally be similar no matter where you end up. One thing to look for is flexibility in the window to re-entering clinics (i.e. you can defend PhD and come back off cycle within a 6 month window without major problems), opportunity to do clinical clerkships before starting PhD (my program offered this and it was an amazing leg up overall in terms of allowing for flexibility in electives in 3rd/4th year), and flexibility in requirements for MD program (i.e. does your PhD count for the required research work, etc. - as it should).

Being on the other side of it, 8 years later, I will echo the sentiment on this board that having strong mentorship throughout this process, and especially during the PhD, is the most critical component of success during and after the program. Ask around potential labs carefully. How available is the PI? Does s/he take an interest in trainees as human beings? Are trainees' authorships well delineated and protected? Ask people who have recently left the lab and have fewer bridges to burn by being forthright. I would strongly advise forgoing mega labs with amazing science and thinly spread PIs during the PhD in favor of smaller labs with more personal attention from the PI. You are there first and foremost to learn and be mentored, not to be a cog in a machine.

Second, most important piece of advice. Senior students are hard to find during recruitment events. Seek them out. Most people doing recruitment are 1st/2nd years without full knowledge of the process. Talk to people on the other side. Are they having success on residency interviews? Are they motivated to keep doing science after MD/PhD? What would they have done differently?

Happy to offer additional perspectives/answer questions by PM.
 
I need help with this as well... choosing between school A that has the perfect profs (field/project-wise) and great location, vs school B that values their MD/PhD students more, seems to have a better run program, but in a less desirable location. Seems like I will need to hunt down senior students during revisits....but the advice so far is helpful.
 
#1 vs #2, A vs B...could you be any more vague? People have already given some of their criteria in this thread. If you actually mentioned what schools 1,2,A and B are, then people who know stuff about these places might be able to tell you specifically whats good or bad about them (like, how supportive the staff is, how well run it its, how Birmingham or Cleveland or Iowa City is actually cooler than you think, etc). Just a thought. :).
 
1. Stipend/living expenses/location- I figured these are all important factors so that 5 years down the line when I'm older I don't hate my life. Be somewhere you know you will enjoy yourself. Do the calculations with the stipend and estimated living expenses and see how much you can save per month comfortably. I'm pretty lax with my finances and won't have a problem saving 4-5k per year in my Roth IRA.

2. MSTP history/size- I wanted a big, well-established program. Glad I chose one.

3. Research in my field- I ranked this relatively low because I wasn't set on a specific department. I just wanted to go somewhere that had diverse and quality oportunities. Even if you are dead set on some field, I would still suggest you weight the general quality of the institutions research above one particular department. Most people tend to change their minds and it would suck if you didn't have good backup labs available.

4. Medical curriculum- its going to be hard, full of bureaucracy, and suck pretty much where ever you go. Just accept this and move on. The reality is that no matter how "reformed" a curriculum is, smart students will work hard and do well on their boards.
I do have two exceptions to this though:
- I wanted to go somewhere with a pass/fail system. After dealing with obnoxious premeds most of undergrad I was tired of dealing with people who work hard for the sake of getting ahead of other people. My school is true pass fail for the non-clinical years and I really appreciate my peers here. There is simply no incentive for people to not help each other and I think by not ranking us, the overly-anal gunner students went elsewhere. If you are someone who needs grades to motivate you then go to a school that grades. I read a good article last year about an analysis of residency matching at schools that went from graded to pass/fail systems- the end result was that overal residency placement greatly improved when the school switched to a pass fail system. Bottom line is that unless you know you're going to be in the top 20% of your class (you might be suprised what people will do to themselves to be at the top), grades are only going to hurt you when applying for residency. Don't buy into the scare tactic that so many schools tried to sell to me during interviews that "residencies will toss out applications of applicants with pass/fail transcripts"- lies.
- Some places allow MD-PhD students to places out of electives and/or non essential rotation. This can help you shave ~1/2 year off of your graduation time.

If it were possible to know for sure, I think the #1 selection factor would be the people in the class. Of course, there's no guarantee who you see at a revisit will end up attending, but I ended up with awesome classmates and it has made a world of difference. No matter how independent you are, you are going to need a some support system for the times you feel like you're not quite a med student, or not quite a grad student- especially transitioning into your 3rd year.

How are you able to put 5k into a Roth? I would love to do this, but my understanding is that in order to make Roth contributions you have to have the equivalent amount of income, and MSTP stipends are not counted as income for tax purposes? If you have found another way please let me know.
 
Also, my original formula was vindicated by all the subsequent posts...
 
How are you able to put 5k into a Roth? I would love to do this, but my understanding is that in order to make Roth contributions you have to have the equivalent amount of income, and MSTP stipends are not counted as income for tax purposes? If you have found another way please let me know.

When speaking with my parents' accountant, I was told that the exact definition of contributable funds is "W2-taxable income." I'm not sure if this varies from program to program, but my school provides us a W2 for our taxes and all taxes (except FICA and medicare, I believe) are taken out of our pay checks. I also know that I'm not the only one here who has done this so I'm pretty sure that it is legitimate.
 
When speaking with my parents' accountant, I was told that the exact definition of contributable funds is "W2-taxable income." I'm not sure if this varies from program to program, but my school provides us a W2 for our taxes and all taxes (except FICA and medicare, I believe) are taken out of our pay checks. I also know that I'm not the only one here who has done this so I'm pretty sure that it is legitimate.

Hm, I guess we are talking to different tax people...
 
How are you able to put 5k into a Roth? I would love to do this, but my understanding is that in order to make Roth contributions you have to have the equivalent amount of income, and MSTP stipends are not counted as income for tax purposes? If you have found another way please let me know.

I'm by no means a tax advisor, but I was also under the impression, after reading through a few tax forms/instruction sheets, that any stipend (including from an MSTP) that exceeds the required cost of attendance is taxable.
 
Yes, it is taxable, but, at least for my program, the stipend is low enough to land in the lowest tax bracket (most tax money is refunded). I think that this differs by state, though...
 
Can any of you compare and contrast stonybrook mstp and penn state mstp? thank you
 
Gut feeling and quality of mentoring. You will be able to identify the latter through the students that are presently attending.

bumping an old thread, but how important do you current and past MD/PhD students feel "gut feeling" is a good criteria to go by? for example, i really felt "part of the family" for one program when i interviewed, but it is seemingly inferior to another in terms of clinical/research/etc (basically all other metrics people have mentioned). however, both programs are MSTPs so the word "inferior" really does not at all indicate a blatant difference.
 
I personally have always placed a lot of importance on "gut feelings" because (a) your gut is usually telling you something authentic that your brain was trying to hide from you and (b) your gut is what you will hear talking to you at 2 in the morning when you can't sleep and are pondering your life. Take the program you liked better.
 
Can any of you compare and contrast stonybrook mstp and penn state mstp? thank you

Stony Brook is an underrated institution. Its location on Long Island gives it some pretty unique access to collaborations and facilities of labs on the island without much competition from other academic institutions. BNL and CSHL are two examples, and I've known a number of people at SUNYSB (in fields as disparate as medicine and music) who collaborated with eminent people in NYC as well.

Even though the medical school is not so strong, don't underestimate the research potential.
 
To add to what mercaptovizadeh has said, I can attest to the strength of SBU (being an undergrad alum from there). Recently, the school got a $150 mill donation and another $20 mill from NY state to beef up its research programs. The med school is expanding by leaps and bounds and as are the graduate institutions. They are planning to build a new imaging core facility, stem cell institute, expand the med school by adding several new buildings by around 2017ish. In addition, students have the option of doing this PhDs in both BNL and CSHL, which are both well funded and have world-renowned faculty.

I agree that the school has several deficiencies-- as do many other institutions, but with the added financial stimulus, I am sure that they will be taken care off.
 
I personally have always placed a lot of importance on "gut feelings" because (a) your gut is usually telling you something authentic that your brain was trying to hide from you and (b) your gut is what you will hear talking to you at 2 in the morning when you can't sleep and are pondering your life. Take the program you liked better.

LoL, great link.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm having a dilemma picking between two schools. Both are in major metropolitan cities on different coasts :) One is absolutely a perfect fit for my research interests, and I feel the MSTP will be very supportive of me - there are two MD/PhDs on faculty that are doing exactly the kind of stuff I want to be doing, plus a number of PhDs who are leaders in the field. The other school could accommodate my interests in a much more fragmented way and my requirements for graduate school would be more difficult to get through, the institutional support would be less strong. There are leaders in an associated field, but not the same methods, theoretical framework, etc. Both are recognized MSTP programs.

Obviously, I should choose #1, right? Except, #1 happens to be in a city I really dislike, and never in my life saw myself living in for 8 years. #2 is in a city I love, and would have no psychological conflict about. Additionally, I have several friends living in city #2 currently, and have little ties to city #1. Maybe I could come around to city #1, and sometimes I think - I'm going to be really busy and living in a university environment more than in the city itself, so it's not the same as moving to city #1 for a 9-5 job. But I'm going to be in my early 30s when I finish, and I don't want to regret the decision I've made.

Any advice gladly appreciated.

I've been thinking the same thing lately, about how to weigh location vs. research opportunities, and would appreciate any advice/opinions anyone has on this issue!
 
bumping an old thread, but how important do you current and past MD/PhD students feel "gut feeling" is a good criteria to go by? for example, i really felt "part of the family" for one program when i interviewed, but it is seemingly inferior to another in terms of clinical/research/etc (basically all other metrics people have mentioned). however, both programs are MSTPs so the word "inferior" really does not at all indicate a blatant difference.

I did all the formulas- complex ones, taking into account everything you've seen posted here. In the end, all the "formulas" were telling me what my gut was saying all along. Since all the "ratings" you do for each school will be mostly subjective, you will unconsciously accomodate the programs for the ones you liked better anyway.
 
I've been thinking the same thing lately, about how to weigh location vs. research opportunities, and would appreciate any advice/opinions anyone has on this issue!

Personally, I feel research opportunites are far more important- this is your future, after all. Now, if you can ONLY be happy in NYC or whatever, then do that, because you won't survive being miserable for 8-10 years. But I find most people find something they like about where they live, no matter where it is.
 
Personally, I feel research opportunites are far more important- this is your future, after all. Now, if you can ONLY be happy in NYC or whatever, then do that, because you won't survive being miserable for 8-10 years. But I find most people find something they like about where they live, no matter where it is.

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but most people in this route plan to become PIs at major research institutes, yes? The odds are overwhelming that somewhere down the line, you won't have a lot of choice about where you live, be it residency, fellowship, or the first faculty position, unless you're lucky//god's gift to science.
So if you don't have a lot of choice in MSTP, you can tell yourself you're just learning to deal with it early :D
 
So if you don't have a lot of choice in MSTP, you can tell yourself you're just learning to deal with it early :D

Actually, this is pretty solid advice. In academics you do have little control over where you get to live. It's nice to have a preference, but remember it's just a preference. Even if you only want to be in NYC or California or anywhere else for that matter, make sure you're okay with the fact that you may not get residency, a job, etc there.
 
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The best piece of advice I got about picking schools was "if you're not happy outside of class/lab you won't be happy inside of class/lab."

Yes, MD/PhD is a lot of work and you're not going to have the free time that a simple 9-5 offers, but if you don't look forward to what you're going to do or whom you're going to do it with when you're not working, that's a great recipe for burnout which is never good for your health or career.

For me, the community of the program was most important (I didn't apply to schools in locations I didn't like), I always asked about the MD/PhD program specifically, the MD program, how the MD/PhDs fit into the med school, and what the departments I was interested in were like. Another very important thing I made note of on interviews that I haven't seen mentioned is how the students interacted with/talked about administrators. You can really see a difference sometimes. Students will rarely flat out bash the administration to an interviewee or second looker, but the kids who liked their schools administrators would readily talk positively about them whereas others avoided the topic.

I think with research opportunities, the most important thing is that there's a lot. If you rate the PIs at each school on a 1-10 based on how much you'd want to be with them, it's far more important to have a school full of 7s than one with a couple 10s and a bunch of 1s. As an applicant, at most MSTPs you are more than a year away from picking your PI. If the 10s don't have space, lose funding, or after a rotation you determine they're an *******, what are you left with? Similarly, even after picking your lab you are often a year away from doing work in that lab and so picking schools (or PIs) based too much on projects/topics can leave you joining a lab that isn't what you thought.

Med school curriculum is next, with P/F vs. graded being the most important thing to consider (in my opinion)

Good luck!
 
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I think with research opportunities, the most important thing is that there's a lot. If you rate the PIs at each school on a 1-10 based on how much you'd want to be with them, it's far more important to have a school full of 7s than one with a couple 10s and a bunch of 1s. As an applicant, at most MSTPs you are more than a year away from picking your PI. If the 10s don't have space, lose funding, or after a rotation you determine they're an *******, what are you left with? Similarly, even after picking your lab you are often a year away from doing work in that lab and so picking schools (or PIs) based too much on projects/topics can leave you joining a lab that isn't what you thought.

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I only applied to locations that I knew I'd be happy living (it helps that I'm not too picky in that department), and matriculated to the best program that accepted me (mainly considered med school quality plus research opportunities, although this ultimately ends up being a subjective judgement as well). I've been very happy with my choice.
 
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I'm not sure I really saw this question answered, but I'm also quite curious. I am currently choosing between
1) A program with research I like, a wonderful program organization (in terms of the support students get), but in a less likeable city
2) A program with research I like, a questionable program organization, in a city I love
3) A program with research I like, a wonderful program organization, not the exact PhD program I like (so couldn't take the grad courses I'd like to), in a city I love


So I am at a complete loss, because I don't know how to weigh the support structure of a program vs. location vs. being able to take the grad courses I'd like (only #3 prevents this).

I know it is a personal thing but any advice/thoughts would be welcome.

I would go with number three. Most of the graduate school faculty I have spoken to say the courses don't really matter and that you want to take the least amount possible anyway. But I guess this depends on the field, if your research is going to be in an area you don't have a lot of background in, courses could be important. Personally, they wouldn't be a deal breaker.
 
The formula I used to rank all programs in my spreadsheet was:
Score = ((Quality of City+Regional Climate+Cost of Living+Quality of Program+Legality of Pet Squirrels)/21 * 100)/(log(US News Rank,10)+7)

Where program quality was rated 0-6, squirrel legality was 0-1, and the others were 1-5. I made US News' research funding rank a log term so that it matters more between 1 and 10 than, say, 40 and 49.

However, having now interviewed at some of the programs and not others, I feel it is increasingly hard to make a fair comparison, for what it's worth.
 
That makes sense. It is tricky for me because I want to do a BME PhD but I don't have a BME undergrad. I am worried that for me to excel in this field, I would need to take some math courses, maybe some programming or other more "Eng" type courses...

For the types of projects you are interested in it may not matter, there are going to be math/physics/engineering people you can collaborate with. I understand wanting to have the knowledge for yourself though.

You should talk to the program about your specific concerns. Does the school have an associated undergrad that provides those types of courses? Or is there another local college that does? Speak with the program and see if any of these would be options.
 
The formula I used to rank all programs in my spreadsheet was:
Score = ((Quality of City+Regional Climate+Cost of Living+Quality of Program+Legality of Pet Squirrels)/21 * 100)/(log(US News Rank,10)+7)

Where program quality was rated 0-6, squirrel legality was 0-1, and the others were 1-5. I made US News' research funding rank a log term so that it matters more between 1 and 10 than, say, 40 and 49.

However, having now interviewed at some of the programs and not others, I feel it is increasingly hard to make a fair comparison, for what it's worth.

Ah, but be sure you're calculating the correct value of pet squirrel legality: When considering the continuous nature of civil law variables, one county or district may prohibit pet squirrels within two miles east of your school, while the more progressive, upwardly mobile county or district undergoing gentrification a mere three miles west of the school allows pet squirrels and chicken coups (even funnier when true). Then again, as is often preferable and ethical practice among aspiring clinician scientists, you can simply omit the variable if you're willing to secretly live as a deviant, squirrel-loving heathen, irreverent of any and all squirrelcist ordinances.
 
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As it gets down to the last day, I thought people who were still on the fence may benefit from this thread. So bump!
 
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SMH at my last post in this thread. I must've been really bored at work that day.


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Anyone know of any good programs NOT urban and preferably northern?
 
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