I just wanted to get an idea of how those of you who have already been through this process formulated your rank list. Gut feelings? Outside sources on program rankings? Excel spreadsheets and complicated algorithms? I have some gut feelings, but there are clumps of programs that I'm having trouble differentiating. I know there are threads out there dealing with this, but I'd like to hear what you all think.
How did you make (are you making) your rank list?
- Thread starter Dermocrat
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complicated algorithms and spread sheets?
geeze. Isn't it stressful enough already?!
I'm interested in hearing what people have to say as well.
geeze. Isn't it stressful enough already?!
I'm interested in hearing what people have to say as well.
It's hard for me to characterize exactly how I'm making my rank list, but I'm definitely NOT using spreadsheets or algorithms. I'm taking the whole program at once and not assigning any scores or anything because I feel like that's artificial, and I'd rather go with a program's whole gestalt. The most important things to me in descending order are:
1. Breadth of training
2. Number of residents (I happen to think big programs mean you will be exposed to more interesting cases)
3. Strength of faculty
4. Strength & variety of didactics
5. Low amount of travel among different sites
6. Other things (salary, insurance, ease of living, predictability of schedule)
I'm interested to see what other people have to say
1. Breadth of training
2. Number of residents (I happen to think big programs mean you will be exposed to more interesting cases)
3. Strength of faculty
4. Strength & variety of didactics
5. Low amount of travel among different sites
6. Other things (salary, insurance, ease of living, predictability of schedule)
I'm interested to see what other people have to say
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Solid system.
1. I think your #1 is probably the most important factor for everyone. I have been disappointed in a couple of programs because of how limited their program seemed.
2. Important. I can't imagine being a part of those programs with only 1-2 residents.
3. Not so much the strength, I like quantity. Saw a couple of programs with only 1-2 full time general dermatologists. That's not good. Even if they are world-renowned faculty.
4. I'm more of a self-studier anyway so didactics figure lowly on my list.
5. Also very important. Places that require me to spend a portion of the day driving around do get lowered.
6. I have found significant variability between programs salary, insurance offerings, and even vacation time. Obviously this isn't a determining factor. But it does tip the scale between two programs that are close.
1. I think your #1 is probably the most important factor for everyone. I have been disappointed in a couple of programs because of how limited their program seemed.
2. Important. I can't imagine being a part of those programs with only 1-2 residents.
3. Not so much the strength, I like quantity. Saw a couple of programs with only 1-2 full time general dermatologists. That's not good. Even if they are world-renowned faculty.
4. I'm more of a self-studier anyway so didactics figure lowly on my list.
5. Also very important. Places that require me to spend a portion of the day driving around do get lowered.
6. I have found significant variability between programs salary, insurance offerings, and even vacation time. Obviously this isn't a determining factor. But it does tip the scale between two programs that are close.
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what's the most vacation you guys have heard?
I've been to one program w/ 5 weeks.
One w/ 4 weeks.
Lowest I've heard is 2 weeks.
that's quite a spread. Not that vacation time is everything but its interesting to compare.
wow 2 is ridiculous. 3 minimum for me..and don't forget you get most major holidays off being in derm! So really, it's more like 4...and 5 if you have 4 weeks. It seems that the midwest gives 3 weeks, east coast 45 weeks (but you need it!), Cali, 3-4 weeks.
I
InertQuail
I'm holding out for that rare program that offers 52 weeks off/yr. But 45 ain't bad!
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Great post by Dermguy (things I'd add):
1. Breadth of training -- variety of sites (VA, county, private etc.), exposure to many different skin types/pathologies
2. Significant Others...this can be a big one for a lot of us.
3. Resident Autonomy (i.e. are you shadowing for 3 years or is there a nice progression of autonomy both in clinics & with procedures)
4. Number of residents (I happen to think big programs mean you will be exposed to more interesting cases) -- I agree
5. Strength of faculty -- number & variety of clinical interests, availability for mentorship
6. Strength & variety of didactics
7. Low amount of travel among different sites
8. Other things (salary, insurance, ease of living, predictability of schedule)
9. Travel funds/able to go to AAD etc.
10. Fellowship match rates
1. Breadth of training -- variety of sites (VA, county, private etc.), exposure to many different skin types/pathologies
2. Significant Others...this can be a big one for a lot of us.
3. Resident Autonomy (i.e. are you shadowing for 3 years or is there a nice progression of autonomy both in clinics & with procedures)
4. Number of residents (I happen to think big programs mean you will be exposed to more interesting cases) -- I agree
5. Strength of faculty -- number & variety of clinical interests, availability for mentorship
6. Strength & variety of didactics
7. Low amount of travel among different sites
8. Other things (salary, insurance, ease of living, predictability of schedule)
9. Travel funds/able to go to AAD etc.
10. Fellowship match rates
Yes, I think all these things are important too. The pathology at the place like a VA can be pretty amazing, although the place I plan to rank #1 does not have a VA I think they are a great source of learning. Thanks everyone for giving me some things to think about as I form my rank list.
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I am surprised no one has mentioned location. I figure this will be the number one deciding factor for me, and I don't even have any pressing needs for a certain location (couples matching, non-mobile family situation). I am tired of cold weather and land on four sides in all directions.
Other things that will factor in not mentioned above are fellowship opportunities within the program, publication quotas, protected consult time, academic stipend (book money, conference allowance).
It is getting crazy, the list is due in a month. Big time decision, hope I don't mess up.
Other things that will factor in not mentioned above are fellowship opportunities within the program, publication quotas, protected consult time, academic stipend (book money, conference allowance).
It is getting crazy, the list is due in a month. Big time decision, hope I don't mess up.
Honestly, I intentionally did not mention location. I am one of those people who does not mind the cold weather or crappy options for things to do at my favorite program. My sig other, on the other hand, is rooting for the three warm programs within ten minutes of the beach that I have interviewed at. We will see who has the stronger personality in the end, I guess.
As far as stipend stuff goes, if you want to take salary and stipend and free lunches and transportation costs and rent/ownership costs into account I suppose you could do some arithmetic to find out where you'll come out on top financially speaking, but I don't think I'll be writing that equation out because I'll probably leave something out and, in the end, I figure the difference won't be very important to me after all, but kudos and good luck to anyone who really wants to figure that all out.
As far as protected time goes, I have similar feelings to my thoughts on money. If you wanted to do the arithmetic and calculate protected time and add free time while subtracting out commute time, conference time, committed lunch time, evening requirements, weekend requirements, and whatever other time commitments you may have such as mowing a lawn vs snowblowing (depending on the weather, right?) I think you could draw some conclusions from the math. For me, though, this number is not worth the effort and anything short of taking EVERYTHING into account falls short of estimating real differences.
In my experience some places that don't have protected time tend to not begin before 9 am (leaving plenty of time for studying) and some places with a half day of protected time or more start at 7 am and frequently go long after 5 pm (meaning you have to catch up with charting/reviewing your dictations during this time), so it's a half dozen of one or six of another to me. I'm going to rely on other things to make my list.
Thoughts?
As far as stipend stuff goes, if you want to take salary and stipend and free lunches and transportation costs and rent/ownership costs into account I suppose you could do some arithmetic to find out where you'll come out on top financially speaking, but I don't think I'll be writing that equation out because I'll probably leave something out and, in the end, I figure the difference won't be very important to me after all, but kudos and good luck to anyone who really wants to figure that all out.
As far as protected time goes, I have similar feelings to my thoughts on money. If you wanted to do the arithmetic and calculate protected time and add free time while subtracting out commute time, conference time, committed lunch time, evening requirements, weekend requirements, and whatever other time commitments you may have such as mowing a lawn vs snowblowing (depending on the weather, right?) I think you could draw some conclusions from the math. For me, though, this number is not worth the effort and anything short of taking EVERYTHING into account falls short of estimating real differences.
In my experience some places that don't have protected time tend to not begin before 9 am (leaving plenty of time for studying) and some places with a half day of protected time or more start at 7 am and frequently go long after 5 pm (meaning you have to catch up with charting/reviewing your dictations during this time), so it's a half dozen of one or six of another to me. I'm going to rely on other things to make my list.
Thoughts?
