How did you plan you 3rd/4th year externships?

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Jaclyn Gosliga

JackAttack
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Hi all!!

I am curious how each of you planned your externships and how it works at each vet school. At Western University of Health Sciences we plan all of our 4th year clinical rotations ourselves as we do not have a university associated clinic to complete our rotations through (as compared to UC Davis, for example). This means that scheduling our 4th year requires a TON of research, time, and dedication to figure out what specialities we want to rotate in and at what hospital or university we want to attend.

How does it work at each of your schools? It is my understanding that other universities offer only a certain amount of time for externships at private practices or other universities. True? And how did you go about deciding in what discipline and at what location you wanted to do those rotations?

Thanks!!

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Welcome to SDN, OP. Good question about fourth year scheduling. It's a bit of a mystery and dark art.

NCSU actually gives us a lot of choice in scheduling our fourth year. A clinical block at NCSU = 2 weeks. Most focus areas (i.e. small animal, large animal, epidemiology, etc.) are granted 3 blocks (six weeks) of off-site externships for credit. Four vacation blocks (8 weeks) are also granted. Students are permitted to travel to externship sites during vacation blocks, but no credit is granted (also, the school's liability insurance doesn't cover you in such instances). I booked my fourth year externship sites (on the west coast) one year in advance (i.e. I picked dates, and the sites confirmed that there was room for me). When it came time to scheduling those opportunities with NCSU, I used 'priority scheduling' to secure those dates. When students schedule their fourth year, it's three step process. The first of these is called 'pick four,' where students can choose, in order of priority, their top four blocks (8 total weeks). For myself, I chose my externship blocks plus SA internal medicine (I wanted this block to be first in my clinical year sequence). Admin does a heroic job of attempting to give everyone there top four blocks. Following pick four, required rotations are scheduled. Admin gives students the option to comment on where they would like a particular block (i.e. radiology before NAVLE), but there's no guarantees that this 'wish list' will be fulfilled. Following required rotations, electives are scheduled. This is done on a first-come, first-serve basis via an online system.

Students choose to prioritize different aspects of their clinical year. Some folks use pick four to schedule their vacation blocks (i.e. they want Christmas off, or are getting married). Other students prioritize position of rotations in their overall fourth year schedule (i.e. medicine, surgery, etc. prior to the NAVLE/match deadline in late Nov/early Dec.). Other folks prioritize externships. Other folks don't care, let their schedule fall into place, and pick their externship sites following finalization of their clinical schedule.

Some disciplines are crazy competitive when it comes to scheduling externships. The zoo folks have it tough here. Most of the zoo folks I know scheduled their externships one full year in advance. Academic institutions (other vet schools) can also be hard to schedule, because those institutions need to have space for an extern while still accommodating their home students. Also, the academic schedules need to roughly match up. Some institutions won't take students at certain times of the year (one institution where I completed a summer fellowship wouldn't take fourth year externs from June-August so that faculty/residents could spend more time with the fellows).

I knew early in my vet school career what I wanted to do post-graduation. As I progressed through the curriculum, I made decisions as to where I thought I'd like to visit. For an individual gunning for internship/residency, I highly suggest that you visit places on your list. It's impossible to visit all of them, but hitting one or two is money well spent. Call these places in advance, and make every opportunity to visit them PRIOR to the match deadline. Also, don't forget your LORs. Make sure that you get face time with faculty who you'd like to write you an LOR PRIOR to the match deadline. The more they see you, the more they can comment on your clinical abilities and interpersonal skills.

That's how I planned my fourth year. I'm about 2/3 done at this stage, and things have worked out nicely so far. I got everything I asked for, with the exception of one elective (very fair, given the priorities of so many students that our admin folks need to juggle). I'm sure that other folks on here did things completely differently, and are/were just as happy with how things turned out. In total, I completed 8 weeks of externship- 6 of these were at academic institutions, 2 were at a company. To the best of your ability, SAVE MONEY for fourth year travel. Externships are not cheap- don't forget, you'll be paying for your living expenses at home and wherever you end up. Also, keep pet care in the back of your mind if that's an issue for you (it was for me). Make sure that you understand your institution's policy for 'time off.' Does your school give you a day in between blocks for travel? What about the NAVLE? Is taking time off to study for the NAVLE important to you, or will you do the majority of your prep in concert with other rotations?

Anyone else want to weigh in? Good luck, OP. Fourth year is a wild ride.
 
The clinical year at A&M involves picking a track--small, large, mixed, food, or alternative. These are pretty self-explanatory, I think. Everyone, regardless of track, is required to take the same 12 rotations. A rotation is two weeks for us. Then, depending on your track, you can rank what other rotations you'd like such as dentistry, ophthalmology, orthopedic surgery, therio, etc. Obviously if you picked large or mixed, you'll be over in the Large Animal Hospital more often than small animal trackers. Every track also has 4 weeks of built-in externship time with one free elective rotation and one vacation rotation. If you track alternative, like I did, you get an additional 12-16 weeks to spend at externships. I knew early on that I was interested in exotics/wildlife/zoo, so I began contacting places that were located where I could stay with friends or family free of charge and bring my pets...this ended up limiting my choices, but I don't regret not going to the "bigger" or "cooler" places like the National Zoo or San Diego because it meant that I only had to pay for a tank of gas or two. I started sending applications in around February 2016 and spaces were already filing up for late 2017/early 2018 which I found a bit crazy, even knowing how competitive zoo medicine is. As long as you know what dates you can work with, I think reaching out sooner rather than later can really work in your favor.

I also saved my 4 weeks of externships for early spring in the event that I decided to not enter the Match, so I could use that time for working interviews since A&M doesn't give a lot of vacation time. You can go that route or use any extra externship time to visit anywhere you'd be interested in Matching at, as @Lab Vet has mentioned. I think my biggest piece of advice is to use your vacation time as VACATION! I had 20 weeks before I made it to vacation and taking those two weeks for myself was the best thing I could have done.
 
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I planned my 4th year so that I completed a surgery, IM, and ECC rotation prior to match season (Oct-Dec) because I wanted to ask for LORs. I also made sure I had lighter rotations (ie. radiology, behaviour, primary care) in October right before taking the NAVLE to give me time to study. I scheduled a vacation week right before taking the NAVLE as well. I think we had 12 weeks of externships allowed, and I used 6 of those weeks to complete surgery externships at places that I was interested in applying to for an internship. The rest of the externship weeks were filled by more unique rotations that weren't offered by my school (wildlife, behaviour, complementary therapies/acupuncture, ophtho, etc).
 
Illinois doesn't really allow you to pick the order of your rotations other than externships, so we kind of lose out on the ability to time LORs/NAVLE-helping rotations. Scheduling at my school is a bit of a sh*tshow in general, but we pretty much got sent a survey about 'preferences' for vacation and off blocks. Not everyone got what they wanted/needed, and it's all getting redone anyways (we start clinics in 3 months...). We get 3 off blocks and 4 vacation blocks. Our blocks are two weeks. We can also do our required imaging off campus now that we don't have a radiologist.

I picked three zoos (two of which I can stay with my fiance, huge plus) and a BluePearl I want to match at for my externships. I was able to schedule the BluePearl right before the match selections are submitted in hopes that I would impress them and be on the front of their minds when picking.
Some disciplines are crazy competitive when it comes to scheduling externships. The zoo folks have it tough here. Most of the zoo folks I know scheduled their externships one full year in advance.
Yep, I scheduled about a year to a year and a half out, although I wasn't going for any of the more crazy competitive ones anyways (National Zoo, Disney, San Diego Zoo, etc.) My school specifically told us not to schedule externships until they tell us to, but I completely ignored that and I'm glad I did. I have several zoo-oriented classmates that did wait too long and are having a hell of a time getting in anywhere.
 
At my school we have 2 years of clinics as well. We have core rotations, electives (10 weeks), and off time/blocks (2, 6-8 week blocks).

At my school, we have a "preference lottery system." So we get to pick one off block for sure, then we preference what we wanna take when. So my preference looked like:
#1: Equine block 1
#2: Off block 12
#3: Path block 3
#4: Large animal block 4
#5: Cardiology elective whenever

Etc. Some people (like me!) get most of their picks, while some don't seem to... it's supposed to match as many preferences as possible and make as many people "happy" as possible..

For the 10 weeks of electives, we are allowed to take a lot of them off campus depending on what we want to do. That requires us to contact the place we wanna go (our extern office has lists of places for like derm, ecc, community practice, etc), set up a date, then contact the clinician in charge and make sure they approve of the place. Wasn't too difficult, and I really really really enjoyed all of my off-campus electives.

During our 2 off blocks, we are expected to have 4 weeks of graded externships. The process is really similar to electives, except for our extern office has a little database of reviews that past students filled out that we can look at before we decide where we wanna go... I found this really helpful because a lot of the students were very clear about whether they would recommend another student going there or not.
 
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