How difficult is it to get into PM&R?

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zislam159

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Hi forumers,

I will be starting osteopathic school this year at either touroNV or ACOM. I have a deep interest in this field but wanted to know since I will be going to an osteopathic school.

I wanted to know how difficult is it to get into residency for this field since, as far as I know, this field is only offered thru the ACGME? also what is the average board scores of those who matched?Plus does going to a newer school put me at a disadvantage when applying to this program? as well as being a osteopathic physician?

Thanks

Z

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New school or not, you are at an advantage being a DO compared an international MD graduate trying to apply for the program. As for the average board scores, those numbers are posted on the NRMP data. It shouldn't take you longer than a few minutes to find it. I'm going to take a stab at it and say the average scores were around 220-230 for 2013?
 
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Hi forumers,

I will be starting osteopathic school this year at either touroNV or ACOM. I have a deep interest in this field but wanted to know since I will be going to an osteopathic school.

I wanted to know how difficult is it to get into residency for this field since, as far as I know, this field is only offered thru the ACGME? also what is the average board scores of those who matched?Plus does going to a newer school put me at a disadvantage when applying to this program? as well as being a osteopathic physician?

Thanks

Z

There are AOA programs my friend.
 
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Touro students matched at Cornell and NYU (amongst other places) in PM&R. For the moment it isn't a competitive specialty. With good enough stats, you can go just about anywhere.
 
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Touro students matched at Cornell and NYU (amongst other places) in PM&R. For the moment it isn't a competitive specialty. With good enough stats, you can go just about anywhere.
Nice, Do you think I should choose the cheaper of two medical schools if my interest is in this field? Reason I ask is should I choose touro, more established school but more expensive school (about 40 grand more after 4 years), or choose ACOM, newer school (I'll be there 2nd class) but less expensive? Also does the school location affect where I get my residency?
 
New school or not, you are at an advantage being a DO compared an international MD graduate trying to apply for the program. As for the average board scores, those numbers are posted on the NRMP data. It shouldn't take you longer than a few minutes to find it. I'm going to take a stab at it and say the average scores were around 220-230 for 2013?
Thanks champ!
 
Nice, Do you think I should choose the cheaper of two medical schools if my interest is in this field? Reason I ask is should I choose touro, more established school but more expensive school (about 40 grand more after 4 years), or choose ACOM, newer school (I'll be there 2nd class) but less expensive? Also does the school location affect where I get my residency?
I doubt either one will make a huge difference in your chances of matching if you can produce good scores on the Steps. The only big reason Touro would give you an edge is that it would make applying to a large number of residency programs more geographically feasible (there are tons of residencies in NY, NJ, PA, CT that would be within an hour or two of you). Personally I'd go with whichever place you felt more comfortable at. For me, 40k is a small price to pay to not be miserable for four years. But that's just my opinion, you really have to listen to your own gut on that one. I live like a Spartan and don't spend a whole hell of a lot, so extra debt doesn't concern me much- I'm going to pay down my loans ahead of time pretty much no matter what.
 
I'm a resident at NYU, lots of Toruo students rotate and match. Just focus on being a good doctor setup an away rotation And shine
 
Actually, to reply to my own post, how can I find the average board scores for 2013 per specialty? I did a search in the NRMP data and couldn't find anything. I'll keep looking.

Edit: I found the results for 2011 (don't they edit this info every 2 years?)
For PM&R, the average Step 1 scores for matched applicants was 215. Lower than I expected but I am definitely not complaining. I will presume that the average score has increased since that time.
 
Actually, to reply to my own post, how can I find the average board scores for 2013 per specialty? I did a search in the NRMP data and couldn't find anything. I'll keep looking.

Edit: I found the results for 2011 (don't they edit this info every 2 years?)
For PM&R, the average Step 1 scores for matched applicants was 215. Lower than I expected but I am definitely not complaining. I will presume that the average score has increased since that time.
I doubt either one will make a huge difference in your chances of matching if you can produce good scores on the Steps. The only big reason Touro would give you an edge is that it would make applying to a large number of residency programs more geographically feasible (there are tons of residencies in NY, NJ, PA, CT that would be within an hour or two of you). Personally I'd go with whichever place you felt more comfortable at. For me, 40k is a small price to pay to not be miserable for four years. But that's just my opinion, you really have to listen to your own gut on that one. I live like a Spartan and don't spend a whole hell of a lot, so extra debt doesn't concern me much- I'm going to pay down my loans ahead of time pretty much no matter what.
Lol nice thanks man. Im a homebody and really my only expenditure is food but I eat like a beast and workout like a Kenyan. So in some realm, Im kinda Spartanish.
 
I'm a resident at NYU, lots of Toruo students rotate and match. Just focus on being a good doctor setup an away rotation And shine
Cool, does doing setting up my rotation at a hospital I hope to do my residency help with obtaining a residency in that particular hospital? And is setting up rotations hard and are students ever turned down? (sorry if these are some noob questions, Im trying to learn as much as I can)
 
Actually, to reply to my own post, how can I find the average board scores for 2013 per specialty? I did a search in the NRMP data and couldn't find anything. I'll keep looking.

Edit: I found the results for 2011 (don't they edit this info every 2 years?)
For PM&R, the average Step 1 scores for matched applicants was 215. Lower than I expected but I am definitely not complaining. I will presume that the average score has increased since that time.
Cool man, per chance do you know if comlex is used by the acgme residencies as well or do they require usmle? Thanks a lot by the way
 
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Just to reiterate what's already been stated. There is a lot of talk about PM&R becoming more competitive, especially when you look at this:
http://residency.wustl.edu/Choosing/SpecDesc/Pages/PhysicalMedicine.aspx

You can see that in 2013, only 89% of US seniors matched, which puts PM&R on par with ophthalmology, right...?

No. Obviously, your average physiatry applicant has lower stats than your average ophthalmology applicant, so even though the competitiveness is increasing, it'll be a while before it's truly "competitive."

Here's my advice if you want to get into PM&R without sweating too much:
- Be the kind of person people want to work with; don't be an arrogant prick.
- Pass your stuff.
- For step 1, if you land around the 50% percentile, you can expect to get interviews at about half the places you apply. So, let's say you get a 225-230 and want 10 interview offers, apply to 20 programs. If your stats are lower, apply to more programs, and if your stats are higher, you can afford to apply to fewer.

As for choosing a school, it's kind of personal. To me, debt matters, so in general, I'd choose a place with more financial aid (if that's an option) and with a lower cost of living.
Other things that I wish I'd thought about:
- is there free parking?
- Will you have to move a lot during your M3 and M4 years for your clinicals or can you do all your rotations at your local hospital? Some schools, believe it or not, don't have enough clinical spots for everyone to stay locally... and not every school as a physiatry elective.
- Is there affordable housing nearby?
- How cold does it get?
- Are lectures recorded and can you watch from the comfort of your home?
- How much time off do you get in your 4th year for interviews? Or do you have to take time off from a rotation? This is really important. My school gave me a huge chunk of time off to schedule as I wanted, some for boards and some for interviews. Other people on the interview trail had to take pathology or something with a relatively light schedule (they still had assignments though) in months when they wanted to be able to schedule interviews. I had 6 weeks (not including 3 more weeks for Xmas) where I had absolutely no duties. I ended up being off for 9 weeks straight in Late Nov - Early Jan...
- What kind of interesting electives are available during 3rd and 4th year? It's really helpful when you need a break at the end of 4th year to be able to schedule 4 weeks of "Teaching Elective."
Now, would you rather do 4 weeks of this: http://som.georgetown.edu/medicaleducation/curriculum/electives/Departments/73991.html or some hard surgery in the last few months of your senior year?

Think hard about practical stuff.
Good luck.
 
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Actually, to reply to my own post, how can I find the average board scores for 2013 per specialty? I did a search in the NRMP data and couldn't find anything. I'll keep looking.

Edit: I found the results for 2011 (don't they edit this info every 2 years?)
For PM&R, the average Step 1 scores for matched applicants was 215. Lower than I expected but I am definitely not complaining. I will presume that the average score has increased since that time.

Does anyone know if there are more recent statistics? Thanks!
 
Thank you for the quick response! Seeing the average is 220 for a US MD student makes me so relieved.

Don't fail anything, keep the pace with your step 2, get a strong specialty LOR...and you are on your way.
 
How many PM&R letters do you typically need? Is one excellent letter enough, and the rest can be from other fields?
 
Yes, although I did have two letters fromPM&R, I also had two letters from IM and Neuro. Funnily enough it was my Neuro letter that kept on being brought up on interviews - the rest may have been more generic; I knew it was that particular letter because the person who wrote it said similar stuff in my end-of-rotation comments and some interviewers quoted from her letter. A good letter from someone who knows you well goes a LONG way.
 
I had 1 PM&R letter but it's far better, and I'd say pretty much required to have at least 2.
 
I had 2 PM&R letters , 1 FM, and 1 Rheum.
 
1 PM&R, 2 military medical officers. The only one people mentioned in interviews was the PM&R LOR. Pretty sure that's the only one that really matters. Get one strong specialty LOR and that's probably enough
 
I had 1 PM&R, 1 IM, 1 Psych, and 1 PhD from PM&R research I did. My Psych, IM, and PhD letters were from people that knew me really well and that makes a big difference. I must have had really good PhD and Psych letters especially because those were brought up a lot in interviews.

I'm sure a really good PM&R letter would be the absolute best. But I think as long as one of your letters is really outstanding and can speak to who you really are is the really good as well.
 
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Sounds like one good PM&R letter should be enough.

Although I definitely agree that having someone know you well is very important. I've noticed this on my third year rotations as well. When I work with 1 attending for several weeks straight and see him or her everyday, I always get very nice and detailed comments on my final evaluation. On rotations where I work with many attendings and only see them a couple of times, the comments are always generic and don't seem to say much.
 
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