How do ADCOMS confirm URM status?

[sunnyjohn]

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I asked AAMC this question and they said this (I'm having to trim the email to a few lines, because I've tried to post this 3x, but it locks SDN up every time even though it's only about 10 line email):

Thank you for contacting AMCAS.

There is no policy procedure set in place for designating a racial status.

We leave this totally up to the applicant to choose.

So no DNA test along with the MCAT?

 

[pagemmapants]

Preach brotha Preach!
There are very few afr. amer. in medical school.

in 2003 there were only 80-89 afr. amer. males in medical school (national)...these are dismal stats.

. . . . REALLY!? Wow, I had no idea it was so low.

Honestly, I'm shocked.

 

[MoosePilot]

So no DNA test along with the MCAT?

Guess not. I'll let you know if it ever comes up in my interviews, because I don't look very NA, even though my research puts me at least at 1/4 without figuring in any from my paternal grandmother. My mom didn't look NA either until she got older. She stopped curling her hair, her face got more angular, and now I think it's pretty obvious.

 

[stantheman]

. . . . REALLY!? Wow, I had no idea it was so low.

Honestly, I'm shocked.

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/42_women_professional_studies.html

 

[Zuras]

Preach brotha Preach!
There are very few afr. amer. in medical school.

in 2003 there were only 80-89 afr. amer. males in medical school (national)...these are dismal stats.

Are black women not "black enough" for you?

 

[sunnyjohn]

Guess not. I'll let you know if it ever comes up in my interviews, because I don't look very NA, even though my research puts me at least at 1/4 without figuring in any from my paternal grandmother. My mom didn't look NA either until she got older. She stopped curling her hair, her face got more angular, and now I think it's pretty obvious.

Lakota? Haudenosaunee? Miccosukee? Seminole?

 

[medhacker]

Wow. I can't believe you said that. I didn't think blacks(or other URMs) were a "monolithic entity," but I guess I was wrong. "You are all the same." Met one? Met 'em all.

How does being a social representation necessarily mean that the ethnic group you represent is monolithic?

Ethnic groups traditionally exhibit degrees of variation. Call them sub-ethnicities if you wish. I guess not belonging to a minority is what makes it so complicated for some. I will attempt to illustrate:

Consider the hispanic ethnicity: [Dictionary def. of ethnic:A member of a particular ethnic group, especially one who maintains the language or customs of the group] There are certain customs which are proper of hispanics which are not generally associated with other groups. If you are a caucasian person you would be least expected to speak/write/understand the spanish language. You would most likely not have been exposed to afro-carribean musical rhytms from birth. There is a series of cultural beliefs (family,marriage, woman and man issues, raising a family, economy and more) which are more common for hispanics because they are usually transferred from generation to generation. If you do not inherit this culture, regardless of your race, most likely you will not share this system of features and beliefs.

On the other hand, you could be the offspring of a hispanic family, who was adopted from month one from a poor south american family by a caucasian canadian family. You are 25 years of age and for practically 25 years you have breathed, seen, lived and received a caucasian culture. Say you even kept your hispanic last name. You may look hispanic (by your race) however, your cultural exposure is such that you do not share the system of features and beliefs of an average hispanic. So you may be a "Martinez" (no offense meant) hispanic looking woman/man, but because you can not/wish not relate
to the system of features and beliefs which are attributed to hispanics, you would be dishonest to designate yourself as a hispanic. The very purpose of the ethnic and racial designation is the common sense that even adcoms have (gee even the supreme court for that matter) about how most people are "racist" [if you don't believe me please take part in another ongoing thread where an admirable user of this forum openly confesses it together with other members]. This common (yet not universal) aspect of human nature, begs that as a society we attempt to provide its members medical professionals who by nature could provide service to all members of society with the hope that racism is not an unavoidable part of the medical service one receives. <--- [I know it sounds like a verbal reasoning passage]

So if you misrepresent your ethnicity, you are doing everyone a disfavor. And adcoms have the obligation to prevent this fraud. If you misrepresent sooner or later it will show - fortunately all medical institutions stipulate harsh punishment for such applicants, now or at any time in your career.

And of course, as someone else pointed out - good luck if you think acceptances will rain because you are an URM.

 

[stantheman]

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2003/031104.htm

 

[MoosePilot]

Lakota? Haudenosaunee? Miccosukee? Seminole?

Heh.

Ok, here's where it gets tough.

My family is super fragmented. The typical pattern on my mom's side is women create homes, men wander around until the die unless incarcerated. The rumor is that my maternal grandmother was Cherokee, but then again that's the default in OK, because that's the wealthiest tribe. I've got no idea if it's true or not. I've got my mom's birth certificate that says her mom was "Indian". My dad's mom was also partially Native American, probably Creek, but also unknown. She's passed now, too, although my dad didn't see her often anyway.

So basically no way to know. I doubt I'll ever be able to join a tribe, because documentation requirements for that are very specific. Once I get some breathing room after school, I'll probably pursue it. I'm not looking for benefits for me, but I want to know. Does that make sense? I've got so few traditions in my family it would be nice to have some history.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Heh.

Ok, here's where it gets tough.

My family is super fragmented. The typical pattern on my mom's side is women create homes, men wander around until the die unless incarcerated. The rumor is that my maternal grandmother was Cherokee, but then again that's the default in OK, because that's the wealthiest tribe. I've got no idea if it's true or not. I've got my mom's birth certificate that says her mom was "Indian". My dad's mom was also partially Native American, probably Creek, but also unknown. She's passed now, too, although my dad didn't see her often anyway.

So basically no way to know. I doubt I'll ever be able to join a tribe, because documentation requirements for that are very specific. Once I get some breathing room after school, I'll probably pursue it. I'm not looking for benefits for me, but I want to know. Does that make sense? I've got so few traditions in my family it would be nice to have some history.

Yep, makes sense. I can certainly understand wanting to explore your family's past. It feels good to know a little bit about your past. Its a wonderful thing to pass on to children.

 

[Zuras]

. . . . REALLY!? Wow, I had no idea it was so low.

Honestly, I'm shocked.

Don't take him too seriously. He's lying. The top 10 med schools alone have over 150 black males.

 

[MoosePilot]

How does being a social representation necessarily mean that the ethnic group you represent is monolithic?

Ethnic groups traditionally exhibit degrees of variation. Call them sub-ethnicities if you wish. I guess not belonging to a minority is what makes it so complicated for some. I will attempt to illustrate:

Consider the hispanic ethnicity: [Dictionary def. of ethnic:A member of a particular ethnic group, especially one who maintains the language or customs of the group] There are certain customs which are proper of hispanics which are not generally associated with other groups. If you are a caucasian person you would be least expected to speak/write/understand the spanish language. You would most likely not have been exposed to afro-carribean musical rhytms from birth. There is a series of cultural beliefs (family,marriage, woman and man issues, raising a family, economy and more) which are more common for hispanics because they are usually transferred from generation to generation. If you do not inherit this culture, regardless of your race, most likely you will not share this system of features and beliefs.

On the other hand, you could be the offspring of a hispanic family, who was adopted from month one from a poor south american family by a caucasian canadian family. You are 25 years of age and for practically 25 years you have breathed, seen, lived and received a caucasian culture. Say you even kept your hispanic last name. You may look hispanic (by your race) however, your cultural exposure is such that you do not share the system of features and beliefs of an average hispanic. So you may be a "Martinez" (no offense meant) hispanic looking woman/man, but because you can not/wish not relate
to the system of features and beliefs which are attributed to hispanics, you would be dishonest to designate yourself as a hispanic. The very purpose of the ethnic and racial designation is the common sense that even adcoms have (gee even the supreme court for that matter) about how most people are "racist" [if you don't believe me please take part in another ongoing thread where an admirable user of this forum openly confesses it together with other members]. This common (yet not universal) aspect of human nature, begs that as a society we attempt to provide its members medical professionals who by nature could provide service to all members of society with the hope that racism is not an unavoidable part of the medical service one receives. <--- [I know it sounds like a verbal reasoning passage]

So if you misrepresent your ethnicity, you are doing everyone a disfavor. And adcoms have the obligation to prevent this fraud. If you misrepresent sooner or later it will show - fortunately all medical institutions stipulate harsh punishment for such applicants, now or at any time in your career.

And of course, as someone else pointed out - good luck if you think acceptances will rain because you are an URM.

It's much more complicated than that. If you look Hispanic and are named "Martinez", you'll be treated like it. In effect, at school you'll be Hispanic.

With me, I don't know all the effects. My mom grew up on what appears in all pictures to be a dirt farm that eventually got swallowed up by some of the nasiest neighborhoods in OKC. Her childhood gives me nightmares when she rarely tells stories. How much of that was because her dad was "white trash" and her mom was Indian? How much was just because they were dirt poor. There's just so many issues. I think the whole thing should be done away with, but while it's here, you can say "Well you couldn't check one of the following: dark skin, ethnic name, spoke a language other than English; so you're not from a minority background."