redchesus

10+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2007
472
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Dentist
So my GPR program isn't really providing me with the implant experience as they advertised to me at interview day. Some shifting admin/bureaucracy things happened and now it looks like it's going to be limited, maybe placing 1 or 2 if we're lucky... probably none.

So I'm flirting with the idea of applying to another GPR next year where I can get to place some, but going through the application cycle again might be very awkward with my program director. I don't really know how to say "Hey, I want to do a more than you're providing" without inadvertently disparaging my current program.

I'm on the fence about this option anyway because I'd lose another year of income potential, living on resident salary... but that said, I'm still a fresh-faced dentist so I could do it.

I don't have much insight into this. Only thing I hear is to stay away from year-long implant programs.

Can any practicing GP enlighten me?
 

DaleDoback

Did you touch my drumset?
Sep 17, 2012
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Resident [Any Field]
Sensitive subject for me, I admit. So you are willing to do 2 years, why not do an actual surgical residency?

Either way, there's been a few threads about this. Other dentists will recommend anything from YouTube videos to "practicing" on live patients. At least you are attempting to further your education so I can't fault you for that.
 
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redchesus

10+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2007
472
3
Status
Dentist
You're OS I'm assuming?

So you are willing to do 2 years, why not do an actual surgical residency?
Because 2 years is still vastly different from 4 or 6 years. Plus, I've decided, the surgical residency lifestyle and culture really isn't for me. I see the OS residents running around, their hours, the attitudes of certain attendings and I cry for them.

I'll look a little harder into the forum history.
 
Oct 15, 2015
5
4
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Dentist
I've been out since 2010. Did my GPR in 2011 at Kings County Hospital - where I placed few implants. There's tons of CE out there for implants hands on.
To be honest, if you're considering doing a GPR just to do implants, you'll definitely lose out on income potential. I did a scratch startup in 2013. Soon as the office opened, I took an Implant Continuum with Dr. Garg (implantseminars.com). It was a great confidence booster. Great course, and Dr. Garg is amazing!

Soon as the course finished, a week later I placed implants on patients in my office. First 6 months after the course, I placed about 20 implants total. This year, I've done tons of implants - and implants have allowed me to knock a serious dent into my student loan debt. Before I opened my office just 2 years and 4 months ago - I was making minimum payments on my student loan debt ($350k). This year i'm on track to have it all paid off by december.

EVERY GP should be placing implants and you can. Dr. Garg (a practicing oral surgeon) will also tell you the same - GPs are the best people to place implants - since we're also going to be restoring. If you can do a post on a root canaled tooth, you can do implants.

I say, go for it!

Don't hesitate to contact me if you want more info!
 
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Jeremy713

J713
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Jan 25, 2009
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This is entirely incorrect. As a periodontal resident in my 3 year program, I know the amount of knowledge I have learned is vastly better and greater than any course a GP can offer. Implants come with many complications. Esthetics, soft tissue, adequate placement for restoration and avoidance of important anatomical structures, all are factors to consider. Do you know anything about soft tissue grafts at the time of placement if you need them? What about when to place a bone graft with implants. When do do immediates, when to do immediate loading, when to bury the implant, what implant components to order, what abutments, what impression components, when to remove bone and when not to. I've seen tons and tons of peri-implantitis cases now, many placed by general dentists. It's only a matter of time before you start having more and more complications you will have to deal with. What are you going to do when you're implants start failing? Wash your hands of it and say sorry to the patient? It is much more complicated than it looks, it's not simply drilling a hole in bone and placing a screw.
 

Miley Cyrus.

Eat. Sleep. Twerk.
Feb 18, 2014
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This is entirely incorrect. As a periodontal resident in my 3 year program, I know the amount of knowledge I have learned is vastly better and greater than any course a GP can offer. Implants come with many complications. Esthetics, soft tissue, adequate placement for restoration and avoidance of important anatomical structures, all are factors to consider. Do you know anything about soft tissue grafts at the time of placement if you need them? What about when to place a bone graft with implants. When do do immediates, when to do immediate loading, when to bury the implant, what implant components to order, what abutments, what impression components, when to remove bone and when not to. I've seen tons and tons of peri-implantitis cases now, many placed by general dentists. It's only a matter of time before you start having more and more complications you will have to deal with. What are you going to do when you're implants start failing? Wash your hands of it and say sorry to the patient? It is much more complicated than it looks, it's not simply drilling a hole in bone and placing a screw.
I'm a D-student and I think I have some strong interest in perio (and implants as well). Suppose my grades were like really bad my D1 year (mainly in sciences, not dental). Do you think I could get into a good perio program that teaches implants. Cause I heard from others, that if you don't get into a perio program that teaches you implants, you pretty much wasted your time.

Thanks!!
 

Jeremy713

J713
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All perio programs are accredited and require residents to learn about and place implants. Good luck!
 

Jeremy713

J713
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Jan 25, 2009
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There are definitely indications for GPs to place implants, but in my opinion, you get a better result if you have a team approach between specialists and general dentists. Of course Dr. Garb says that, he is making money by teaching GPs how to place implants.
 

DaleDoback

Did you touch my drumset?
Sep 17, 2012
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339
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EVERY GP should be placing implants and you can. Dr. Garg (a practicing oral surgeon) will also tell you the same - GPs are the best people to place implants - since we're also going to be restoring. If you can do a post on a root canaled tooth, you can do implants.
:diebanana::diebanana:

I don't know you, but I hate you based solely off this statement. GP also have the least amount of knowledge of basic surgical principles. I do believe that most GPs are very capable of doing simple implant cases. You are clueless if you think they are the best.
 
Feb 19, 2012
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:diebanana::diebanana:

I don't know you, but I hate you based solely off this statement. GP also have the least amount of knowledge of basic surgical principles. I do believe that most GPs are very capable of doing simple implant cases. You are clueless if you think they are the best.
I don't know why you're even bothering with this fight...GPs will completely dominate the dental implant business in 5 - 10 years. The systems are getting easier and easier, there are more and more courses available, and graduates are getting more and more experience placing and restoring implants in dental school. My entire Facebook newsfeed is people who graduated around the same time as me talking about their implant courses and societies. They go to mexico or central america for a week and slam in some implants and come back ready to surger-ize.

The only cases OMFS will see are the multiple implant cases that require sedation...and a lot of those people will just end up going to the chains that use the traveling surgeon. Of course you'll see the screw-ups that should have had pre-prosthetic grafting/augmentation but didn't...and then you're trying to convince the patient to spend another 5k just to fix what they already paid for...

Our program just drastically increased the amount of implants we place as residents, but i'm not fooling myself into thinking it's going to be my bread and butter.
 
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psiyung

1K Member
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Oct 23, 2004
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I've been out since 2010. Did my GPR in 2011 at Kings County Hospital - where I placed few implants. There's tons of CE out there for implants hands on.
To be honest, if you're considering doing a GPR just to do implants, you'll definitely lose out on income potential. I did a scratch startup in 2013. Soon as the office opened, I took an Implant Continuum with Dr. Garg (implantseminars.com). It was a great confidence booster. Great course, and Dr. Garg is amazing!

Soon as the course finished, a week later I placed implants on patients in my office. First 6 months after the course, I placed about 20 implants total. This year, I've done tons of implants - and implants have allowed me to knock a serious dent into my student loan debt. Before I opened my office just 2 years and 4 months ago - I was making minimum payments on my student loan debt ($350k). This year i'm on track to have it all paid off by december.

EVERY GP should be placing implants and you can. Dr. Garg (a practicing oral surgeon) will also tell you the same - GPs are the best people to place implants - since we're also going to be restoring. If you can do a post on a root canaled tooth, you can do implants.

I say, go for it!

Don't hesitate to contact me if you want more info!
I'm really not here to get into a pissing contest, but for the sake of factual content, Dr. Arun Garg (who runs implantseminars.com) is NOT AN ORAL SURGEON! He poses as one to sell his CE course to the masses. He's actually a GP. Having taken his course, it is one of the more poorly run classes didactically speaking I have attended.
 
Sep 21, 2012
44
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I'm really not here to get into a pissing contest, but for the sake of factual content, Dr. Arun Garg (who runs implantseminars.com) is NOT AN ORAL SURGEON! He poses as one to sell his CE course to the masses. He's actually a GP. Having taken his course, it is one of the more poorly run classes didactically speaking I have attended.
Really?
I think he said he completed OMS residency at Jackson Memorial at Miami.
What is your source?
Is it even legal to pose as OMS when you're not?
I'm both stunned and curious to know.
 

psiyung

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Oct 23, 2004
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he is not an oral surgeon...he has been confronted by myself and many others about this very issue...its all over dentaltown as well...he may have done a fellowship at JAX but he is not an MD and he is not an omfs
 
Oct 15, 2015
5
4
Status
Dentist
This is entirely incorrect. As a periodontal resident in my 3 year program, I know the amount of knowledge I have learned is vastly better and greater than any course a GP can offer. Implants come with many complications. Esthetics, soft tissue, adequate placement for restoration and avoidance of important anatomical structures, all are factors to consider. Do you know anything about soft tissue grafts at the time of placement if you need them? What about when to place a bone graft with implants. When do do immediates, when to do immediate loading, when to bury the implant, what implant components to order, what abutments, what impression components, when to remove bone and when not to. I've seen tons and tons of peri-implantitis cases now, many placed by general dentists. It's only a matter of time before you start having more and more complications you will have to deal with. What are you going to do when you're implants start failing? Wash your hands of it and say sorry to the patient? It is much more complicated than it looks, it's not simply drilling a hole in bone and placing a screw.
Just saw all the replies. Didn't know my comment was going to cause a big problem, but I didn't mean to offend anyone.
I read my response to the thread topic, and I admit i got carried away in excitement when i said gps are best for implant placements.;)

Jeremy713, You guys obviously get LOT MORE training in implants for sure. When you read that I've placed a lot of implants, you're assuming that I didn't think about proper tx planning that's going to involve any possible complications.
I actually refer to my periodontist a lot. In the beginning, I referred all anterior cases because I didn't want to get involved with soft tissue grafting cases because I'm not trained in it. However, when I did refer each anterior case, I went to the periodontist office and observed and assisted. (remember: During office hours, I'm not seeing my patients in my office, and still paying staff to stay there). I did this to LEARN from the specialist who does it well.
In regards to bone grafting, I graft all my extractions unless patient is completely against it for financial reasons.
For past nine months, I've been placing anteriors where I feel comfortable.
I've also done immediate implants in the anteriors along with bone grafting, guided tissue regeneration via membrane. Some of these patients with immediates - are my patients who have BEEN to my periodontist for Ossesous surgeries - but that's the relationship my periodontist and I have. And these patients are still coming to me for implants.

Ive also seen implants fail in patients who have had them placed by general dentists, oral surgeons as well as periodontists. But I wouldn't automatically assume, it's always the doctors.

"it's only a matter of time before you start having more and more complications..." - So you're just wishing that all i've done so far will fail. Thanks for the wishes, but no thanks.
Complications could arise from anyone.

When you leave your residency and enter the real world, you'll learn quickly it's all about relationships - whether it'd be with your patients or with other referring doctors.
Learn to maintain and respect these relationships now, otherwise, you'll quickly run into problems in the future when you're depending on your referring doctors (Gps, Oral Surgeons, prosthodontists).

By the way, Dr. Garg is NOT a gp. He's not just in it to make money - sure he makes a TON. Let him tell you personally about his 20 yrs at the hospital in Miami. Don't start judging.

I'm going to not reply on this topic any further.

The whole point of my reply was to motivate the person who started this thread.
 
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DaleDoback

Did you touch my drumset?
Sep 17, 2012
261
339
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Garg has no recognized surgical specialty training, therefore, he is a GP.
 

DaleDoback

Did you touch my drumset?
Sep 17, 2012
261
339
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Just saw all the replies. Didn't know my comment was going to cause a big problem, but I didn't mean to offend anyone.
I read my response to the thread topic, and I admit i got carried away in excitement when i said gps are best for implant placements.;)

Jeremy713, You guys obviously get LOT MORE training in implants for sure. When you read that I've placed a lot of implants, you're assuming that I didn't think about proper tx planning that's going to involve any possible complications.
I actually refer to my periodontist a lot. In the beginning, I referred all anterior cases because I didn't want to get involved with soft tissue grafting cases because I'm not trained in it. However, when I did refer each anterior case, I went to the periodontist office and observed and assisted. (remember: During office hours, I'm not seeing my patients in my office, and still paying staff to stay there). I did this to LEARN from the specialist who does it well.
In regards to bone grafting, I graft all my extractions unless patient is completely against it for financial reasons.
For past nine months, I've been placing anteriors where I feel comfortable.
I've also done immediate implants in the anteriors along with bone grafting, guided tissue regeneration via membrane. Some of these patients with immediates - are my patients who have BEEN to my periodontist for Ossesous surgeries - but that's the relationship my periodontist and I have. And these patients are still coming to me for implants.

Ive also seen implants fail in patients who have had them placed by general dentists, oral surgeons as well as periodontists. But I wouldn't automatically assume, it's always the doctors.

"it's only a matter of time before you start having more and more complications..." - So you're just wishing that all i've done so far will fail. Thanks for the wishes, but no thanks.
Complications could arise from anyone.

When you leave your residency and enter the real world, you'll learn quickly it's all about relationships - whether it'd be with your patients or with other referring doctors.
Learn to maintain and respect these relationships now, otherwise, you'll quickly run into problems in the future when you're depending on your referring doctors (Gps, Oral Surgeons, prosthodontists).

By the way, Dr. Garg is NOT a gp. He's not just in it to make money - sure he makes a TON. Let him tell you personally about his 20 yrs at the hospital in Miami. Don't start judging.

I'm going to not reply on this topic any further.

The whole point of my reply was to motivate the person who started this thread.
Why do you graft all your extractions? Do you have good literature that reports that grafted 4 wall sockets provide superior quality? Should I start grafting my third molar extractions? Doesn't a graft sometimes increase the risk of infection? Do you graft a purulent socket? Does that increase your risk of failure?

Why do you graft all your extractions? You said it best.........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$